Why are so many Christians against annihilation in hell when scripture supports it?

Der Alte

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<cwo>You err, the sun and the moon will one day cease to exist when this heaven and earth passes away, hence,
Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. (Matthew 24:35 [NIV])
In his days may the righteous flourish, and peace abound, till the moon be no more! (Psalm 72:7 [ESV])
And there will be no night there; and they have no need of a lamp, and the light of the sun, for the Lord God enlightens them; and they shall reign into the aeons* of the aeons*. (Revelation 22:5 [MODIFIED-ABP])*
Interlinear Links: *αἰῶνας (aeons), αἰώνων (aeons), Revelation 22:5
Eternal is not a word of scripture. Aeonial is.<end>
This is oft repeated internet nonsense not supported by any accredited Greek lexicon. Here is the definition of aionios from BADG one of, if not, the most highly accredited lexicons in print. This lexicon represents 120-150 years of combined Greek scholarship so it will take more than a copy/paste from an anonymous website to refute.
αἰώνιος (ία pert. to a period of unending duration, without end (Diod S 1, 1, 5; 5, 73, 1; 15, 66, 1 δόξα αἰ. everlasting fame; in Diod S 1, 93, 1 the Egyptian dead are said to have passed to their αἰ. οἴκησις; Arrian, Peripl. 1, 4 ἐς μνήμην αἰ.; Jos., Bell. 4, 461 αἰ. χάρις=a benefaction for all future time; OGI 383, 10 [I b.c.] εἰς χρόνον αἰ.; EOwen, οἶκος αἰ.: JTS 38, ’37, 248–50; EStommel, Domus Aeterna: RAC IV 109–28) of the next life σκηναὶ αἰ. Lk 16:9 (cp. En 39:5). οἰκία, contrasted w. the οἰκία ἐπίγειος, of the glorified body 2 Cor 5:1. διαθήκη (Gen 9:16; 17:7; Lev 24:8; 2 Km 23:5 al.; PsSol 10:4 al.) Hb 13:20. εὐαγγέλιον Rv 14:6; κράτος in a doxolog. formula (=εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας) 1 Ti 6:16. παράκλησις 2 Th 2:16. λύτρωσις Hb 9:12. κληρονομία (Esth 4:17m) vs. 15; AcPl Ha 8, 21. αἰ. ἀπέχειν τινά (opp. πρὸς ὥραν) keep someone forever Phlm 15 (cp. Job 40:28). Very often of God’s judgment (Diod S 4, 63, 4 διὰ τὴν ἀσέβειαν ἐν ᾅδου διατελεῖν τιμωρίας αἰωνίου τυγχάνοντα; similarly 4, 69, 5; Jer 23:40; Da 12:2; Ps 76:6; 4 Macc 9:9; 13:15) κόλασις αἰ. (TestReub 5:5) Mt 25:46; 2 Cl 6:7; κρίμα αἰ. Hb 6:2 (cp. κρίσις αἰ. En 104:5). θάνατος B 20:1. ὄλεθρον (4 Macc 10:15) 2 Th 1:9. πῦρ (4 Macc 12:12; GrBar 4:16.—SibOr 8, 401 φῶς αἰ.) Mt 18:8; 25:41; Jd 7; Dg 10:7 (cp. 1QS 2:8). ἁμάρτημα Mk 3:29 (v.l. κρίσεως, κολάσεω, and ἁμαρτίας). On the other hand, of eternal life (Maximus Tyr. 6, 1d θεοῦ ζωὴ αἰ.; Diod S 8, 15, 3 life μετὰ τὸν θάνατον lasts εἰς ἅπαντα αἰῶνα; Da 12:2; 4 Macc 15:3;PsSol PsSol 3:12; OdeSol 11:16c; JosAs 8:11 cod. A [p. 50, 2 Bat.]; Philo, Fuga 78; Jos., Bell. 1, 650; SibOr 2, 336) in the Reign of God: ζωὴ αἰ. (Orig., C. Cels. 2, 77, 3) Mt 19:16, 29; 25:46; Mk 10:17, 30; Lk 10:25; 18:18, 30; J 3:15f, 36; 4:14, 36; 5:24, 39; 6:27, 40, 47, 54, 68; 10:28; 12:25, 50; 17:2f; Ac 13:46, 48; Ro 2:7; 5:21; 6:22f; Gal 6:8; 1 Ti 1:16; 6:12; Tit 1:2; 3:7; 1J 1:2; 2:25; 3:15; 5:11, 13, 20; Jd 21; D 10:3; 2 Cl 5:5; 8:4, 6; IEph 18:1; Hv 2, 3, 2; 3, 8, 4 al. Also βασιλεία αἰ. 2 Pt 1:11 (ApcPt Rainer 9; cp. Da 4:3; 7:27; Philo, Somn. 2, 285; Mel., P. 68, 493; OGI 569, 24 ὑπὲρ τῆς αἰωνίου καὶ ἀφθάρτου βασιλείας ὑμῶν; Dssm. B 279f, BS 363). Of the glory in the next life δόξα αἰ. 2 Ti 2:10; 1 Pt 5:10 (cp. Wsd 10:14; Jos., Ant. 15, 376.—SibOr 8, 410 φῶς αἰῶνιον). αἰώνιον βάρος δόξης 2 Cor 4:17; σωτηρία αἰ. (Is 45:17; Ps.-Clem., Hom. 1, 19) Hb 5:9; short ending of Mk. Of unseen glory in contrast to the transitory world of the senses τὰ μὴ βλεπόμενα αἰώνια 2 Cor 4:18.—χαρά IPhld ins; δοξάζεσθαι αἰωνίῳ ἔργῳ be glorified by an everlasting deed IPol 8:1. DHill, Gk. Words and Hebr. Mngs. ’67, 186–201; JvanderWatt, NovT 31, ’89, 217–28 (J).—DELG s.v. αἰών. M-M. TW. Sv.
[1] Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., & Bauer, W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., pp. 33–34). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
 
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cwo

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<cwo>You err, the sun and the moon will one day cease to exist when this heaven and earth passes away, hence,
Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. (Matthew 24:35 [NIV])
In his days may the righteous flourish, and peace abound, till the moon be no more! (Psalm 72:7 [ESV])
And there will be no night there; and they have no need of a lamp, and the light of the sun, for the Lord God enlightens them; and they shall reign into the aeons* of the aeons*. (Revelation 22:5 [MODIFIED-ABP])*
Interlinear Links: *αἰῶνας (aeons), αἰώνων (aeons), Revelation 22:5
Eternal is not a word of scripture. Aeonial is.<end>

This is oft repeated internet nonsense not supported by any accredited Greek lexicon. Here is the definition of aionios from BADG one of, if not, the most highly accredited lexicons in print. This lexicon represents 120-150 years of combined Greek scholarship so it will take more than a copy/paste from an anonymous website to refute.

αἰώνιος (ία pert. to a period of unending duration, without end (Diod S 1, 1, 5; 5, 73, 1; 15, 66, 1 δόξα αἰ. everlasting fame; in Diod S 1, 93, 1 the Egyptian dead are said to have passed to their αἰ. οἴκησις; Arrian, Peripl. 1, 4 ἐς μνήμην αἰ.; Jos., Bell. 4, 461 αἰ. χάρις=a benefaction for all future time; OGI 383, 10 [I b.c.] εἰς χρόνον αἰ.; EOwen, οἶκος αἰ.: JTS 38, ’37, 248–50; EStommel, Domus Aeterna: RAC IV 109–28) of the next life σκηναὶ αἰ. Lk 16:9 (cp. En 39:5). οἰκία, contrasted w. the οἰκία ἐπίγειος, of the glorified body 2 Cor 5:1. διαθήκη (Gen 9:16; 17:7; Lev 24:8; 2 Km 23:5 al.; PsSol 10:4 al.) Hb 13:20. εὐαγγέλιον Rv 14:6; κράτος in a doxolog. formula (=εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας) 1 Ti 6:16. παράκλησις 2 Th 2:16. λύτρωσις Hb 9:12. κληρονομία (Esth 4:17m) vs. 15; AcPl Ha 8, 21. αἰ. ἀπέχειν τινά (opp. πρὸς ὥραν) keep someone forever Phlm 15 (cp. Job 40:28). Very often of God’s judgment (Diod S 4, 63, 4 διὰ τὴν ἀσέβειαν ἐν ᾅδου διατελεῖν τιμωρίας αἰωνίου τυγχάνοντα; similarly 4, 69, 5; Jer 23:40; Da 12:2; Ps 76:6; 4 Macc 9:9; 13:15) κόλασις αἰ. (TestReub 5:5) Mt 25:46; 2 Cl 6:7; κρίμα αἰ. Hb 6:2 (cp. κρίσις αἰ. En 104:5). θάνατος B 20:1. ὄλεθρον (4 Macc 10:15) 2 Th 1:9. πῦρ (4 Macc 12:12; GrBar 4:16.—SibOr 8, 401 φῶς αἰ.) Mt 18:8; 25:41; Jd 7; Dg 10:7 (cp. 1QS 2:8). ἁμάρτημα Mk 3:29 (v.l. κρίσεως, κολάσεω, and ἁμαρτίας). On the other hand, of eternal life (Maximus Tyr. 6, 1d θεοῦ ζωὴ αἰ.; Diod S 8, 15, 3 life μετὰ τὸν θάνατον lasts εἰς ἅπαντα αἰῶνα; Da 12:2; 4 Macc 15:3;PsSol PsSol 3:12; OdeSol 11:16c; JosAs 8:11 cod. A [p. 50, 2 Bat.]; Philo, Fuga 78; Jos., Bell. 1, 650; SibOr 2, 336) in the Reign of God: ζωὴ αἰ. (Orig., C. Cels. 2, 77, 3) Mt 19:16, 29; 25:46; Mk 10:17, 30; Lk 10:25; 18:18, 30; J 3:15f, 36; 4:14, 36; 5:24, 39; 6:27, 40, 47, 54, 68; 10:28; 12:25, 50; 17:2f; Ac 13:46, 48; Ro 2:7; 5:21; 6:22f; Gal 6:8; 1 Ti 1:16; 6:12; Tit 1:2; 3:7; 1J 1:2; 2:25; 3:15; 5:11, 13, 20; Jd 21; D 10:3; 2 Cl 5:5; 8:4, 6; IEph 18:1; Hv 2, 3, 2; 3, 8, 4 al. Also βασιλεία αἰ. 2 Pt 1:11 (ApcPt Rainer 9; cp. Da 4:3; 7:27; Philo, Somn. 2, 285; Mel., P. 68, 493; OGI 569, 24 ὑπὲρ τῆς αἰωνίου καὶ ἀφθάρτου βασιλείας ὑμῶν; Dssm. B 279f, BS 363). Of the glory in the next life δόξα αἰ. 2 Ti 2:10; 1 Pt 5:10 (cp. Wsd 10:14; Jos., Ant. 15, 376.—SibOr 8, 410 φῶς αἰῶνιον). αἰώνιον βάρος δόξης 2 Cor 4:17; σωτηρία αἰ. (Is 45:17; Ps.-Clem., Hom. 1, 19) Hb 5:9; short ending of Mk. Of unseen glory in contrast to the transitory world of the senses τὰ μὴ βλεπόμενα αἰώνια 2 Cor 4:18.—χαρά IPhld ins; δοξάζεσθαι αἰωνίῳ ἔργῳ be glorified by an everlasting deed IPol 8:1. DHill, Gk. Words and Hebr. Mngs. ’67, 186–201; JvanderWatt, NovT 31, ’89, 217–28 (J).—DELG s.v. αἰών. M-M. TW. Sv.
[1] Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., & Bauer, W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., pp. 33–34). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.

Is the lexicon without errors? The Greek word "aion", which is a noun, is a definitive amount of time, hence,

And whoever should say a word against the son of man, it shall be forgiven him; but the one who should speak against the holy spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in the present aeon*, nor in the one about to be. (Matthew 12:32 [MODIFIED-ABP])*

Interlinear Links: *αἰῶνι (aeon), Matthew 12:32

Therefore, it's adjective form, aionos, which can be rendered as aeonial in English, relates to a definitive amount of time also, no different than the word "hourly" describing something done every hour, which comes from the noun "hour", or the word "centurylong" describes something that lasts for a century, which comes from the the noun "century".

As such, something that is aeonial lasts for aeons, but not necessarily eternal. Eternal is a modern word, not a Hebrew/Greek word, hence this mistranslation,

The blessings of your father excel the blessings of my ancestors and the bounty of the eternal hills. May they rest on the head of Joseph, on the crown of the prince of his brothers. (Genesis 49:26 [HCSB])

Hills are aeonial, meaning they last for aeons, not eternal,

The blessings of your father excel the blessings of my ancestors and the bounty of the aeonial* hills. May they rest on the head of Joseph, on the crown of the prince of his brothers. (Genesis 49:26 [HCSB])*

Interlinear Links: *‘ō·w·lām (aeonial), Genesis 49:26
 
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mmksparbud

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Thanks. It is amazing to me that such posters keep insisting on what someone else thinks is true. They themselves cannot put into words what they think and so they do not think but let someone else think for them. So if you try to talk to them, you cannot. You can only get links and pasted from another man's thoughts. I can only conclude that these have shut down their minds and follow someone else without having to bother to think. It is too bad because they cannot really interact with people and certainly not with God who is not at all fond of cut and pasting but likes real communication.

On that line, those who post ONLY bible verses I also find rather irritating. It is also like they have no thoughts at all. I imagine that a table where all people could do while fellowshipping is quote someone else. That is it. I mean would that be boring or what? You would not get to know much about anyone except who had a good memory and what particular verses they mention that evening.


That's interesting---there are 80 times in the bible where "It is written" is used---it was one of Jesus favorites sayings. I much prefer to speak with those who quote the bible often to those who only speak their own thoughts. The bible is the word of God, therefore it is the mind of God. And that is the prime target in life--to have the mind of God. I can't think of that as boring.
 
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Der Alte

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Is the lexicon without errors? The Greek word "aion", which is a noun, is a definitive amount of time, hence,
You presume to question the lexicon I quoted without providing one sliver of evidence showing it to be wrong. If you think it is wrong I would like to see some credible, verifiable, historical evidence. Not just snide dismissals. Are your sources "without error?" How many semesters of koine Greek did you say you have? I am not an expert but I have studied both Hebrew and Greek at the graduate level
And whoever should say a word against the son of man, it shall be forgiven him; but the one who should speak against the holy spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in the present aeon*, nor in the one about to be. (Matthew 12:32 [MODIFIED-ABP])*
In 2 Cor 4:17 one Greek word occurs twice ὑπερβολή/uperbolé from which we derive the English word hyperbole. Hyperbole means to use exaggeration for emphasis. In his book "Figures of Speech used in the Bible" E.W. Bullinger identifies more than 200 figures of speech.
Interlinear Links:.......
αἰῶνι (aeon), Matthew 12:32
Therefore, it's adjective form, aionos, which can be rendered as aeonial in English, relates to a definitive amount of time also, no different than the word "hourly" describing something done every hour, which comes from the noun "hour", or the word "centurylong" describes something that lasts for a century, which comes from the the noun "century".
As such, something that is aeonial lasts for aeons, but not necessarily eternal. Eternal is a modern word, not a Hebrew/Greek word, hence this mistranslation,
The blessings of your father excel the blessings of my ancestors and the bounty of the eternal hills. May they rest on the head of Joseph, on the crown of the prince of his brothers. (Genesis 49:26 [HCSB])
Hills are aeonial, meaning they last for aeons, not eternal,
The blessings of your father excel the blessings of my ancestors and the bounty of the aeonial* hills. May they rest on the head of Joseph, on the crown of the prince of his brothers. (Genesis 49:26 [HCSB])*
Interlinear Links: *‘ō·w·lām (aeonial), Genesis 49:26
What is your source and what are their qualifications in koine Greek? Random websites are not credible evidence.
.....These verses are part of a larger study I did. In the NT “aion/aionios” are used to refer to things which are not eternal but are never defined/described, by other words and phrases, as meaning a period of time less than eternal, as in the following verses.

Romans 1:20
(20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal [ἀΐ́διος/aidios] power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Romans 16:26
(26) But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting [αἰώνιος/aionios] God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
In Romans 1:20 Paul refers to God’s power and Godhead as “aidios.” Scholars agree “aidios” unquestionably means eternal, everlasting, unending etc. In Rom 16:26 Paul refers to God as “aionios,” therefore Paul evidently considers “aidios” and “aionios” to be synonymous.
Hebrews 7:24 but because Jesus lives forever [αἰών/aion] he has an unchangeable [ἀπαράβατος/aparabatos] priesthood.
In this verse “aion” is paired with “unchangeable.” If “aion” means “age(s),” Jesus cannot continue “for a finite period” and be “unchangeable” at the same time. Thus “aion” by definition here means “eternal.”
1 Peter 1:23
(23) For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, [ ̓́αφθαρτος/aphthartos] through the living and enduring word of God. …
1 Peter 1:25
(25) but the word of the Lord endures forever.[αἰών/aion] " And this is the word that was preached to you.
In verse 23 “word of God” is paired with “imperishable.” In verse 25 the word of God “endures εις τον αιωνα unto eternity. ” Thus by definition “aion” here means “eternity.”
1 Timothy 6:16
(16) Who only hath immortality, [ ̓́αφθαρτος/aphthartos] dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting[αἰώνιος/aionios]
In this verse “aionios” is paired with “immortality.” If “aionios” is only a finite period, God cannot be “immortal” and only exist for a finite period at the same time. Thus “aionios” by definition means “eternal.”
Galatians 6:8
(8) For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption;[φθορά/fthora] but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. [αἰώνιος/aionios]
In this verse “aionios” is contrasted with “corruption.” “Fleshly” people reap “corruption” but spiritual people reap “life aionios,” i.e. “not corruption.” “Age(s), a finite period, is not opposite of “corruption.” Thus “aionios life” by definition here means “eternal/everlasting life.”
John 6:58
(58) This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.[αἰώνιος/aionios]
In this verse “aionios life” is contrasted with “death.” If “live aionios” is only a finite period, a finite period is not opposite “death.” Thus “aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”
 
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cwo

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You presume to question the lexicon I quoted without providing one sliver of evidence showing it to be wrong. If you think it is wrong I would like to see some credible, verifiable, historical evidence. Not just snide dismissals. Are your sources "without error?" How many semesters of koine Greek did you say you have? I am not an expert but I have studied both Hebrew and Greek at the graduate level

In 2 Cor 4:17 one Greek word occurs twice ὑπερβολή/uperbolé from which we derive the English word hyperbole. Hyperbole means to use exaggeration for emphasis. In his book "Figures of Speech used in the Bible" E.W. Bullinger identifies more than 200 figures of speech.

What is your source and what are their qualifications in koine Greek? Random websites are not credible evidence.
.....These verses are part of a larger study I did. In the NT “aion/aionios” are used to refer to things which are not eternal but are never defined/described, by other words and phrases, as meaning a period of time less than eternal, as in the following verses.

Romans 1:20
(20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal [ἀΐ́διος/aidios] power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Romans 16:26
(26) But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting [αἰώνιος/aionios] God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
In Romans 1:20 Paul refers to God’s power and Godhead as “aidios.” Scholars agree “aidios” unquestionably means eternal, everlasting, unending etc. In Rom 16:26 Paul refers to God as “aionios,” therefore Paul evidently considers “aidios” and “aionios” to be synonymous.
Hebrews 7:24 but because Jesus lives forever [αἰών/aion] he has an unchangeable [ἀπαράβατος/aparabatos] priesthood.
In this verse “aion” is paired with “unchangeable.” If “aion” means “age(s),” Jesus cannot continue “for a finite period” and be “unchangeable” at the same time. Thus “aion” by definition here means “eternal.”
1 Peter 1:23
(23) For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, [ ̓́αφθαρτος/aphthartos] through the living and enduring word of God. …
1 Peter 1:25
(25) but the word of the Lord endures forever.[αἰών/aion] " And this is the word that was preached to you.
In verse 23 “word of God” is paired with “imperishable.” In verse 25 the word of God “endures εις τον αιωνα unto eternity. ” Thus by definition “aion” here means “eternity.”
1 Timothy 6:16
(16) Who only hath immortality, [ ̓́αφθαρτος/aphthartos] dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting[αἰώνιος/aionios]
In this verse “aionios” is paired with “immortality.” If “aionios” is only a finite period, God cannot be “immortal” and only exist for a finite period at the same time. Thus “aionios” by definition means “eternal.”
Galatians 6:8
(8) For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption;[φθορά/fthora] but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. [αἰώνιος/aionios]
In this verse “aionios” is contrasted with “corruption.” “Fleshly” people reap “corruption” but spiritual people reap “life aionios,” i.e. “not corruption.” “Age(s), a finite period, is not opposite of “corruption.” Thus “aionios life” by definition here means “eternal/everlasting life.”
John 6:58
(58) This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.[αἰώνιος/aionios]
In this verse “aionios life” is contrasted with “death.” If “live aionios” is only a finite period, a finite period is not opposite “death.” Thus “aionios” by definition here means “eternal.”

Need I discredit the lexicon or be an expert in linguistics to derive a logical conclusion that an adjective relates to its noun counterpart in scope? Some things aeonial are without end, because they are declared so independently, because aeonial does not imply without end, such as the example of aeonial hills, where hills are not eternal, they are aeonial, yet the aeonial life received by the elect is without end, because in a separate passage we read that these never die again, so it is both aeonial life and life without end (two different things). All angels have aeonial life, but those who sinned will eventually die like men, ending their aeonial life.
 
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ClementofA

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You presume to question the lexicon I quoted without providing one sliver of evidence showing it to be wrong.

You've provided no evidence your source (that you have blind faith in) is correct.

If you think it is wrong I would like to see some credible, verifiable, historical evidence.

You've been given mountains of evidence. You could start with the early church father universalists who disagree with Danker's (BDAG) opinions:

https://www.christianforums.com/thr...niversalism-since-early-church-times.8042013/


This is a prime example of heterodox cherry picking sources to support assumptions/presuppositions.

Checkout the orthodox universalism majority in the early church (and a hope for universalism majority in the present day church):

https://www.christianforums.com/thr...niversalism-since-early-church-times.8042013/

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/unfund...017/04/indeed-many-universalism-early-church/


If you think BDAG is wrong you will have to prove it

If you think the Bible & the early church & the modern church are all wrong, you will have to prove it.

If you think Love Omnipotent's love is finite & expires like a carton of milk so He can torture most of His creatures called human beings in fire with immortal worms eating them for all endless trillions X trillions X trillions of eons, forever and ever and ever, you will have to prove it.

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/unique_proof_for_universalism.html
 
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ClementofA

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.....These verses are part of a larger study I did. In the NT “aion/aionios” are used to refer to things which are not eternal but are never defined/described, by other words and phrases, as meaning a period of time less than eternal,

Patently untrue & just your amateur opinion which is not supported by any scholar in the past 2000 years.

"Consider the N. T. use of aion. Does “eternity” make any sense in the following passages? To make my point unmistakable, I have translated the Greek word aion with the English word “eternity.”

¨ What will be the sign…of the end of the eternity (Mt. 24:3)?

¨ I am with you…to the end of the eternity (Mt. 28:20).

¨ The sons of this eternity are more shrewd (Lu. 16:8).

¨ The sons of this eternity marry (Lu. 20:34).

¨ Worthy to attain that eternity (Lu. 20:35).

¨ Since the eternity began (Jn. 9:32; Ac. 3:21).

¨ Conformed to this eternity (Ro. 12:2).

¨ Mystery kept secret since the eternity began but now made manifest (Ro. 16:25-26).

¨ Where is the disputer of this eternity (1Co. 1:20)?

¨ Wisdom of this eternity, nor of the rulers of this eternity…ordained before the eternities…which none of the rulers of this eternity…(1Co. 2:6-8)

¨ Wise in this eternity (1Co. 3:18).

¨ Upon whom the ends of the eternities have come.
(1Co. 10:11)

¨ God of this eternity has blinded (2Co. 4:4).

¨ Deliver us from this present evil eternity (Ga. 1:4).

¨ Not only in this eternity but also in that which is to come (Ep. 1:21).

¨ Walked according to the eternity of this world (Ep. 2:2).

¨ In the eternities to come (Ep. 2:7).

¨ From the beginnings of the eternities (Ep. 3:9).

¨ Hidden from eternities…but now…revealed (Col. 1:26).

¨ Loved this present eternity (2Ti. 4:10).

¨ Receive him for eternity (Ph.1:15). Does this mean forever or only until Onesimus dies?

¨ Powers of the eternity to come (He. 6:5).

¨ At the end of the eternities (He. 9:26).

¨ We understand the eternities have been prepared by a saying of God (He. 11:3).

How can we say…

¨ “Before eternity” or “eternity began”? Eternity has no beginning (Jn. 9:32; Ac. 3:21; 1Co. 2:7; Ep. 3:9).

¨ “Present eternity,” “eternity to come,” and “end of eternity?” Eternity transcends time. Only God is eternal (Mt. 24:3; 28:20; 1Co. 10:11; 2Ti. 4:10; He. 6:5; 9:26).

¨ “This eternity,” “that eternity,” or “eternities”? There is only one eternity (Lu. 16:8; 20:34-35; Ro. 12:2; 1Co. 1:20; 2:6-8; 3:18; 10:11; 2Co. 4:4; Ga. 1:4; Ep. 1:21; 2:2, 7; 3:9; Col. 1:26; 2Ti. 4:10; He. 11:3).

¨ “Eternal secret” if the secret is revealed? (Ro. 16:25-26; Col. 1:26). It is no longer a “secret” at that point."

http://www.hopebeyondhell.net/articles/further-study/eternity/
 
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Dorothy Mae

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That's interesting---there are 80 times in the bible where "It is written" is used---it was one of Jesus favorites sayings. I much prefer to speak with those who quote the bible often to those who only speak their own thoughts. The bible is the word of God, therefore it is the mind of God. And that is the prime target in life--to have the mind of God. I can't think of that as boring.
I never said quoting a reference shows weakness. But there are posts here where that is ALL a poster does. Or there is a link and that is it. You probably did not notice that after the words "it is written" Jesus went on to say rather astounding thoughts that were
not a quote.

Now having the mind of God does not occur by quoting the Bible. We are encouraged in the OT to learn the law of God, to talk about it and so on. Scripture is useful for teaching, correction and training in righteousness. Learning it by heart is helpful to provide that correction or direction at critical times. But if it is not a part of our own thinking and that eventually naturally comes without conscience effort, we do not have the mind of Christ. We do not have the mind of God. There are people who so closely have the mind of God on some matters that when they share their thoughts, God himself would say "amen." After all, then the men who wrote the Bible wrote, they did not know they were writing the Bible. For them, they were just communicating their thoughts although I am convinced they knew they were inspired.
 
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narrowgateevangelist

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Luke 16: 19. There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20. And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21. And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23. And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. 27. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 28. For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Jesus Messiah of Nazareth, is clearly describing hell here. Also the nature of the place.

Anything that contradicts this description. Is also contradicting the real warning. That Jesus Messiah of Nazareth saved us the redeemed from.
 
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vinsight4u

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Jeremiah 31:36

“If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.”


Jeremiah 31:35

“Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:”
 
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cwo

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Luke 16: 19. There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20. And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21. And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23. And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. 27. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 28. For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Jesus Messiah of Nazareth, is clearly describing hell here. Also the nature of the place.

Anything that contradicts this description. Is also contradicting the real warning. That Jesus Messiah of Nazareth saved us the redeemed from.

Not as you're thinking, because the place Yeshua mentioned in this passage was Hades, not Hell, as seen in the original text,

In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. (Luke 16:23 [NIV])

Where Hades and Hell are two distinct places, which is why the dead come out of Hades, to then be thrown in Hell, again, two distinct places,

The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:13-15 [NIV])

Where the reason Hades is described as the lake of fire, although from the passage in Revelation and other passages in scripture we know it is not because it is a distinct place from the lake of fire, is to convey the punishment of the lake of fire from the context of Hades, meaning the dead, precisely the above passage in Revelation, because back then many Jews did not believe in the resurrection of the dead, to subsequently be judged and then be punished in a lake of fire,

for the Sadducees say there is no resurrection or angels or spirits, but the Pharisees believe in all of these. (Acts 23:8 [NLT])

Which is one reason this passage must be taken as a parable. The passage also starts in the same style as the parables that immediately precede it,

And he said also to his disciples, A certain man was rich, who had a manager; and this one was accused by him as wasting his possessions. (Luke 16:1 [ABP])

And he said, A certain man had two sons. (Luke 15:11 [ABP])

There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. (Luke 16:19 [NIV])

Because the passage is part of a set of parables, and just like any parable, it has an interpretation that will harmonize with all scriptures.
 
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narrowgateevangelist

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Not as you're thinking, because the place Yeshua mentioned in this passage was Hades, not Hell, as seen in the original text,

In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. (Luke 16:23 [NIV])

Where Hades and Hell are two distinct places, which is why the dead come out of Hades, to then be thrown in Hell, again, two distinct places,

The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:13-15 [NIV])

Where the reason Hades is described as the lake of fire, although from the passage in Revelation and other passages in scripture we know it is not because it is a distinct place from the lake of fire, is to convey the punishment of the lake of fire from the context of Hades, meaning the dead, precisely the above passage in Revelation, because back then many Jews did not believe in the resurrection of the dead, to subsequently be judged and then be punished in a lake of fire,

for the Sadducees say there is no resurrection or angels or spirits, but the Pharisees believe in all of these. (Acts 23:8 [NLT])

Which is one reason this passage must be taken as a parable. The passage also starts in the same style as the parables that immediately precede it,

And he said also to his disciples, A certain man was rich, who had a manager; and this one was accused by him as wasting his possessions. (Luke 16:1 [ABP])

And he said, A certain man had two sons. (Luke 15:11 [ABP])

There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. (Luke 16:19 [NIV])

Because the passage is part of a set of parables, and just like any parable, it has an interpretation that will harmonize with all scriptures.

I agree that parables have harmonization with the scriptures. Jesus described hell, so it is a real place. His description in parable form makes it no less real.
 
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I agree that parables have harmonization with the scriptures. Jesus described hell, so it is a real place. His description in parable form makes it no less real.

I never said Hell isn't real, I said Hades and Hell are two distinct places. That is one detail that is very important to know, because if you think both are the same place, contrary to other scriptures, including the one in Revelation I quoted, you will think that anyone that dies immediately goes to the lake of fire, whereas if you understand that they are two distinct places, then you will understand that the dead are being held reserved in Hades, which is where Christ also was after he died, which is called Sheol in Hebrew,

For you will not abandon my soul to Sheol, or let your holy one see corruption. (Psalm 16:10 [ESV])

To then by punished in the lake of fire after being resurrected, after being judged, at an appointed time in the future. It is actually a huge difference. There is an actual order of distinct and significant events that must happen first before punishment of fire is rendered, which is first the resurrection, which involves being brought out of Sheol, then the judgment, which involves being judged by your works, then is the punishment by lake of fire, and since we know no one has been resurrected yet, then we know no one has been judged yet, therefore no one has been thrown into the lake of fire yet, therefore the only place the dead can be at this very moment in time is in Sheol awaiting those future events. Again, when you take parables literally, you misconstrue the truth, such as catholics who take this other parable in the form of a short statement literally,

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. (John 6:56 [NIV])

There is an interpretation to this statement not to be taken literally.
 
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The following site defends the torment of hell, biblically better than I can. At this point in time. My personal synopsis is that hell is terrible. None should take it lightly.

https://www.gotquestions.org/lake-of-fire.html

There will indeed be torment in hell, very painful, but it will not be eternal, it will be momentary. God in his authority has already predestined who will be thrown in the lake of fire before the foundation of the world, it would be nonsensical for God to consign most of mankind to eternal torment, when the true purpose of Hell is to render death in a very painful way unto those God appointed to be sinners, so that through them he may demonstrate his wrath, power, and judgment; where after these things have been shown, they serve no other purpose but to cease to exist as quickly as they came into existence, hence "the wicked are like the chaff that the wind blows away" and the "wicked will become ashes under the feet of the righteous". The punishment for sin is death, not eternal torment. The doctrine of eternal torment is a serious misunderstanding of the nature of God and contrary to what the scriptures teach.
 
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I understand the plain meanings presented within the Bible. I won't speculate on the temperature in hell. Nor will I count the leaves on my eternal wreath. For overcoming through Jesus Messiah of Nazareth.

The Judgement seat is solely Gods. What He deems appropriate is all there is, ultimately.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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Not as you're thinking, because the place Yeshua mentioned in this passage was Hades, not Hell, as seen in the original text,

In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. (Luke 16:23 [NIV])

Where Hades and Hell are two distinct places, which is why the dead come out of Hades, to then be thrown in Hell, again, two distinct places,

The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:13-15 [NIV])

Where the reason Hades is described as the lake of fire, although from the passage in Revelation and other passages in scripture we know it is not because it is a distinct place from the lake of fire, is to convey the punishment of the lake of fire from the context of Hades, meaning the dead, precisely the above passage in Revelation, because back then many Jews did not believe in the resurrection of the dead, to subsequently be judged and then be punished in a lake of fire,

for the Sadducees say there is no resurrection or angels or spirits, but the Pharisees believe in all of these. (Acts 23:8 [NLT])

Which is one reason this passage must be taken as a parable. The passage also starts in the same style as the parables that immediately precede it,

And he said also to his disciples, A certain man was rich, who had a manager; and this one was accused by him as wasting his possessions. (Luke 16:1 [ABP])

And he said, A certain man had two sons. (Luke 15:11 [ABP])

There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. (Luke 16:19 [NIV])

Because the passage is part of a set of parables, and just like any parable, it has an interpretation that will harmonize with all scriptures.
Except the account mentions Lazarus by name, something no parable does.
 
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