What great City is being symbolized in Revelation?

No, it obviously symbolizes Boise, Idaho.

LittleLambofJesus said:

Thank you for your post and vote.

That is what I have heard and I believe is what Luther taught about the Papacy.

Look at this prophecy in Ezekiel

Ezekiel 4:
1 ‘And thou, son of man, take to thee a brick, and thou hast put it before thee, and hast graven on it a city — Jerusalem,
2 and hast placed against it a siege, and builded against it a fortification, and poured out against it a mount, and placed against it camps, yea, set thou against it battering-rams round about.
3 And thou, take to thee an iron pan, and thou hast made it a wall of iron between thee and the city; and thou hast prepared thy face against it, and it hath been in a siege, yea, thou hast laid siege against it. A sign it [is] to the house of Israel.

Jerusalem was sacked in 70ad, about 40yrs after Jesus began preaching the Gospel at age 30.....
Rome was sacked in about 410ad, approx 390 yrs after Jesus began to preach
In another words, just a God allowed the Roman army to destroy Jerusalem in 70 ad, He allowed Rome to be sacked in about 410ad......
Thus freeing the Christians from both the yoke and bondage of the corrupt murderous Judean rulers and also of the Romans. Thoughts?

4 ‘And thou, lie on thy left side, and thou hast placed the iniquity of the house of Israel on it; the number of the days that thou liest on it, thou bearest their iniquity. 5 And I — I have laid on thee the years of their iniquity, the number of days, three hundred and ninety days; and thou hast borne the iniquity of the house of Israel.

6 And thou hast completed these, and hast lain on thy right side, a second time, and hast borne the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days — a day for a year —
a day for a year I have appointed to thee.
7 ‘And unto the siege of Jerusalem thou dost prepare thy face, and thine arm [is] uncovered, and thou hast prophesied concerning it.
8 And lo, I have put on thee thick bands, and thou dost not turn from side to side till thy completing the days of thy siege.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Rome_(410)

The Sack of Rome occurred on 24 August 410. The city was attacked by the Visigoths led by King Alaric. At that time, Rome was no longer the capital of the Western Roman Empire, having been replaced in that position first by Mediolanum in 286 and then by Ravenna in 402.
Nevertheless, the city of Rome retained a paramount position as "the eternal city" and a spiritual center of the Empire.
The sack was a major shock to contemporaries, friends and foes of the Empire alike.

This was the first time in almost 800 years that Rome had fallen to a foreign enemy.

The previous sack of Rome had been accomplished by the Gauls under their leader Brennus in 390 or 387/6 BC. The sacking of 410 is seen as a major landmark in the fall of the Western Roman Empire. St. Jerome, living in Bethlehem at the time, wrote that "The City which had taken the whole world was itself taken."[2]

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Rome was a Christian city at that time.

Do we desire Christian cities to be devastated ?

Was Leo, the Bishop of Rome, a sinner, to have saved Christianized Rome from Attila, a non-Christian ? The righteous would have helped speed Attila to Rome ?

Do we not marvel at the power of the Gospel to convert & save souls? The conversion of Rome, from Caesars like Heliogabalus, to Christ, gives hope to the whole of humanity.

If we deny the Christ could convert Rome, we limit Christ's power & reach. Might we, thereby, cast doubt on our own conversion? If we deny Romans are really Christians, who else, claiming to be Christians, are also not really what they say?

It is true, that the Carthaginians never took Rome. Without Rome, perhaps all Europe would have fallen to Hannibal ("the grace of Ba'al") Barca 2200 years ago, with child-sacrificing temples to Moloch across the continent.

Christ, who in some sense did what Hannibal did not, warns that the Judgements we use will be heaped upon our own heads (Matthew 7:2).

For whatever such words are worth.

shilohsfoal said:

Have you checked your history books to make sure the ancient city of babylon was never destroyed by anyone?

This is who will destroy the people of Babylon.
http://biblehub.com/jeremiah/51-11.htm

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indeed, scholars have noted that the infernal armies of Revelation are described in vaguely Persian terms, with infernal cavalry suggestive of the Persian cataphracts, as one example.

I presume it has been reasonably well known for 2000 years that Revelation does use the symbols of "Babylon" and "Cyrus the Messiah (Isaiah 45:1) and the Persians" as some sort of spiritual symbols of opposition.

Evidently, in Rev, the Holy Divine element is "swamped", "inundated", "buried in" the infernal characteristics of the Beast's armies. They've become "demonized". Such a mixture may reflect the mixture of "clay & iron" in the feet of Daniel's statue ?

Gonna pass..

LittleLambofJesus said:

I saw this thread on Jerusalem being shown as the great City in Revelation at the link below, [but would like to add a poll thread to mine]

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I will vote no, because i think i know, that Jerusalem is NOT Revelation's "great city". But it's a tough understanding, who can understand it?, would everyone be willing to know? If you are willing to accept it, John the Baptist came in the spirit of Elijah. But if he failed in his mission, the earth would be cursed with a decree of utter destruction. There had to be a reason why God would describe the "great city" with language that would be so enigmatic to us here. Like during closing time, you might not have to go home, but you can't stay here. The "great city" comes to a bad ending when the time comes for God to destroy the destroyers of the earth.

And "their" voices prevailed.

Symbolically called Sodom and Egypt where our Lord was crucified. But our Lord suffered "without the gate", outside of Jerusalem's walls. By a group of "hard hearts" like that of the Pharaoh. And by a synagogue of Sodomites who worshiped the creature instead of the Creator. They exchanged the truth for a lie. The "great city" was the jeering mob of wicked people that screamed: "crucify Him". And Pilate's like, "I can't find this man guilty of any crime. ,... I am bringing Him out to you to let you know that I find no basis for a charge ..But they all cried out together, but they kept shouting, “Crucify, crucify him!” And their voices prevailed. They cast their vote, the many peoples have spoken.

A "third" time he said to them, “Why? What evil has he done? I have found in him no guilt deserving death. I will therefore punish and release him.” But they were urgent, demanding with loud cries that he should be crucified.

And their voices prevailed.

The Kingdom of the Rebels.

And now we're here again. Revelation's "great city" is the equivalent to Daniel's "Kingdom of the Rebels". At the latter part of their reign when they have become completely wicked, waiting for their king to be revealed. This is a virtual kingdom comprised of the conglomerate of worldwide transgressing individuals. The citizens of Satan waiting for their stern faced king. Every great "city" is comprised of citi-zens. These are the many nations and peoples and tongues.

Think about this. The "great city" rules over the kings of the earth - Revelation 17. How do they do that? This calls for a mind with wisdom. The kings of the earth are part of the composite beast with the seven heads and ten horns and a mouth like a lion. But how does the "great city", the peoples and multitudes and nations and languages, have sway over the composite beast? How does the "great city" have control over the kings, the governments, of the earth? One way i can show this manifest in our time right now is in this list of countries that have made the popular vote for same sex marriage. The many peoples have voted this thing in. The "great city" is also the "outer court" and they all have a vote. But they are not to be measured, they do not measure up. But it is with their vote, their voice, that they rule the kings of the earth. And their voices prevailed, and the people have spoken.

1) The Netherlands (2000)
2) Belgium (2003)
3) canada (2005)
4) Spain (2005)
5) South Africa (2006)
6) Norway (2009)
7) Sweden (2009)
8) Argentina (2010)
9) Iceland (2010)
10) Portugal (2010)
11) Denmark (2012)
12) Brazil (2013)
13) England and Wales (2013)
14) France (2013)
15) New Zealand (2013)
16) Uruguay (2013)
17) Luxembourg (2014)
18) Scotland (2014)
19) Finland: (signed 2015, effective 2017)
20) Ireland: (2015)
21) United States: (2015)<-------1290Days------->"Darkened" Sun/Moon.

The Great City is split into three parts.

But understanding the great city is to have it placed into it's position amoungst the puzzle pieces. Those word translation studies won't work. A required example is the Bible's use of thirds where some are hidden. But the honor of kings is to search out a matter. King David defeated the Moabites. He made them all lay down on the ground. Then he counted off and killed every two out of three people. But one third was spared. Two thirds destroyed.


Another case where two thirds are destroyed, but one third is spared.

Revelation mentions a "third" being destroyed multiple times.

A third of the earth was burned up,
A third of the trees were burned up,
A third of the sea became blood.
A third of the living creatures in the sea died,
A third of the ships were destroyed.
A third of the rivers and on the springs of water.
A third of the waters became wormwood,
A third of the sun was struck,
A third of the moon,
A third of the stars,
A third of their light might be darkened,
A third of the day might be kept from shining,
A third of the night.
A third of mankind.

But two thirds are always spared. There's never a complete destruction of the earth, or of all the inhabitants up to this point in the narrative. But there comes a time, when the time has come, for God to destroy the destroyers of the earth. With a sharp sword that comes from His mouth, a sharp command to die.

Like, if someone drains the cup of the fury of God's wrath, this is total destruction. I hate to even think about it. All three "third"s are destroyed. Up until this point, the wrath was diluted, or mixed with mercy. A third of the trees, a third of the ships, a third of the day and a third of mankind. But two "thirds" were always spared. At the end of the second coming, The Cup is drained.

On the "last day" of the great tribulation there will only be two kinds of human beings alive, the "great city" of hard hearted Sodomites, and those who are in Jesus. The stern faced king will stand between the sea of the wicked, the great city, and Mount Zion, we who are in Christ. The ultimate tale of two cities.

We who are in Jesus will be safe with Him in the air. Then with a "sharp command", the "great city will be split into three parts, split into thirds. Split into three parts means that all three "thirds" are destroyed, there's not a "third" to spare. And the birds gorged themselves.

Not a third to spare.
Be in the air, or be square.
Third strike we're out.

This is my story on the "great city",
And i'll stick to it for now.

Until i can see through the glass more clearly.

Worthy is the Lamb.

Peaceful Sabbath.

Dave Watchman said:

On the "last day" of the great tribulation there will only be two kinds of human beings alive, the "great city" of hard hearted Sodomites, and those who are in Jesus. The stern faced king will stand between the sea of the wicked, the great city, and Mount Zion, we who are in Christ. The ultimate tale of two cities.

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Tel Aviv is not Jerusalem, but represents the mindset of the modern State of Israel regarding the above statement. It is considered by many to be one of the "Gay" capitals of the world.



Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.


Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.


Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

.

What great City is being symbolized in Revelation?

The one that has the most innocents (babies at their most vulnerable and helpless and voiceless) blood on their hands?

BABerean2 said:

Tel Aviv is not Jerusalem, but represents the mindset of the modern State of Israel regarding the above statement. It is considered by many to be one of the "Gay" capitals of the world.

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Yep, i know about Tel Aviv. It's the number 1 place for the Sodomite's "pride" day. But it's still not Revelation's "great city". Tel Aviv can't rule over the "kings of the earth". Their type only make up the half of the symbolic city. We mustn't' forget the "hard hearts'.


The "great city", is not one of the "cities of the nations". Can you see how it's differentiated? The "great city" is ALL the cities of the nations. It's the outer court, the gentiles. We are the "israel" of God.

And the "great city" was destroyed,
and the cities of the nations fell.

Two different things. But you can't have one without the, other.


I watch your video, it felt like it was two hours long.

This one has about a minute of scenes from Tel Aviv that starts about 7.5 minutes in.

brinny said:

What great City is being symbolized in Revelation?

The one that has the most innocents (babies at their most vulnerable and helpless and voiceless) blood on their hands?

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Huh?

So you believe that abortions are a deciding factor for the "one" to be qualified as a "great city"? Does this agrees with the Word of God?

TribulationSigns said:

Huh?

So you believe that abortions are a deciding factor for the "one" to be qualified as a "great city"? Does this agrees with the Word of God?

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i think i know where she's coming from. Find the place who sacrificed 60 million babies, and you've found your infamous "city".

You must admit it's a better guess than Boise Idahoe.

Then what says you old wise one, where do you say we can we find Revelation's "great city".

Dave Watchman said:

i think i know where she's coming from. Find the place who sacrificed 60 million babies, and you've found your infamous "city".

You must admit it's a better guess than Boise Idahoe.

Then what says you old wise one, where do you say we can we find Revelation's "great city".

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Speaking of Wisdom, it manifests itself in accepting the Bible alone as the authoritative revelator of prophesy. Not the "well respected" writings of the unbelievers who write their views of history.

Proverbs 1:5-8

• "A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:
• To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings.
• The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
• My son, hear the instruction of thy father, and forsake not the law of thy mother:"

God says a man of understanding will attain unto wise counsels to understand a proverb and the interpretation. ...that would not be someone who depends on the statistical on abortions to determine who is Great City. Not the words of Josephus, Calvin or John Walvoord, but God's inerrant word of truth and interpretation. All interpretation belongs to Him, not mine. I was only a witness to that Truth by comparing Scripture by Scripture. Not world news, statistics on abortions, or finding a physical city sitting on seven literal mountains or hills. Spiritual Discerned!

As for "Great City"...unfortunately she is not the false "world system." Not a particular literal country or city on Earth. Rather it is a false "Religious System" WITHIN God's congregation, the Church. She is that once Great City Jerusalem that represented God's Kingdom on Earth, gone bad! It is the same once great city that eventually kills (silence) the two witnesses (Revelation 11) within her. These two witnesses of Revelation 11 "represent" the true believers who are faithful witnesses in that church. Remember, they are not killed outside in the world, they're killed RIGHT ON THE STREETS of that SAME GREAT CITY, but only AFTER they have finished their testimony for salvation. And again, they were killed by God's own people who resided there but they are the false prophets and the unfaithful professing Christians who were tortured by their truthful testimony and witness against their disobedience. Right now, they are out there waging spiritual war to silence Two Witnesses' truthful testimony so that they can do whatever they please in God's House with lying signs and wonders.

Babylon, Sodom and Egypt are all simply terms to identify this people's spiritual condition.

Revelation 11:7-8

• "And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
• And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

When the Apostle John, under inspiration of God, called Jerusalem spiritually Sodom and Egypt, He wasn't saying that a city of New York City, Rome, or even JersualemJerusalemlike Sodom or Egypt, rather He was using these well known biblical references to illustrate the spiritual condition of this "Great City" where Christ was Crucified, who has killed the two true witnesses of God. Again, it is the congregation Babylon within which these two witnesses resided, and within which they were killed. For example, the congregation that has become spiritually Babylon and Sodom, full of abominations that will leave it desolate. And the congregation that has become spiritually as Egypt was, where you will find spiritual bondage in her. In other words, it is full of rebellion against God, and abominations that will leave it desolate.

Matthew 10:19-22

• "But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
• For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
• And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
• And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved."

Brother against brother, just as it was with Cain and Abel, family against family, generation against generation, Christ against the antichrist, the man of God against the man of sin. There is a spiritual war between God's people within His Congregation. And the two witnesses (faithful Elect) will be silenced in the great city. Not as a sign of their defeat, but of the end of that great city as a representative of God's Kingdom on Earth just like Israel was at the Cross! That Great city falls as a great stone. For though the faithful testimony in this congregation is finished, the Saints are not hurt nor destroyed because their refuge is the Lord's Holy Mountain and are already SEALED by God, Revelation 7 and 9 before the loosening of Satan's armies as a judgment upon this Great City (Church) all over the world. Not New York City, Jerusalem or Rome.

Keep in mind that Babylon, the city of confusion, is a representation of a spiritually bankrupt congregation.

As usual, i can agree with some of the things you say like:

TribulationSigns said:

When the Apostle John, under inspiration of God, called Jerusalem spiritually Sodom and Egypt, He wasn't saying that a city of New York City, Rome, or even Jersualem Jerusalemlike Sodom or Egypt, rather He was using these well known biblical references to illustrate the spiritual condition of this "Great City" where Christ was Crucified, who has killed the two true witnesses of God. Again, it is the congregation Babylon within which these two witnesses resided, and within which they were killed. For example, the congregation that has become spiritually Babylon and Sodom, full of abominations that will leave it desolate. And the congregation that has become spiritually as Egypt was, where you will find spiritual bondage in her. In other words, it is full of rebellion against God, and abominations that will leave it desolate.

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But if the "great city" is just some erroneous system within the current ecclesia, how would that worry me if i were in China or Russia. I tend to read these as end time issues that will involve all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth.

It would be like saying the Mormons have gone crazy and are coming to get me where i live in Moscow. I'd say bring them on, let them come. I'm taking a nap.

TribulationSigns said:

Rather it is a false "Religious System" WITHIN God's congregation, the Church. She is that once Great City Jerusalem that represented God's Kingdom on Earth, gone bad! It is the same once great city that eventually kills (silence) the two witnesses (Revelation 11) within her.

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And i can't see how a small false group of Christians within the congregation is going to be able to "rule over the kings of the earth."


But i see how you're close because the "woman" from Revelation 12 are God's people being chased by the dragon. But this "woman" that we talk about from chapter 17 is different, she's the woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns. This is the harlot, not a part of the Christian congregation.

Dave Watchman said:

But if the "great city" is just some erroneous system within the current ecclesia, how would that worry me if i were in China or Russia. I tend to read these as end time issues that will involve all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth.

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First, the great city is God's congregation all over the world makeup of God's people, both Elect and Professed Christians. What brings Congregation as a whole into apostasy and desolate is the abominations that the false prophets and christs brought in whatever it is in China or England. My point is, the abominations will not be multiplied or increased UNTIL Satan comes out of bottomless pit first.

And i can't see how a small false group of Christians within the congregation is going to be able to "rule over the kings of the earth."

"The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth."​

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Okay, allow me to ramble a little.

The kings of the earth are the people of the congregation that the King Jesus has appointed as kings and priests. Depending on context, the kings of the earth can be either Elect or Professed Christians, for example:


Jesus Christ is our prince and we are his kings of the Earth. However, it is the PROFESSED kings of the earth who are deceived by the Beast.


The kings of the earth in this context are professed believers ruled by the beast. Beast overcoming the Christians (professed) in the Church. This is why Jesus warned us about a spiritual war between two groups of people within His congregation! But this only takes place AFTER Satan comes out of the bottomless pit and deceive those unsaved or unsealed kings of the earth WITHIN the congregation of God to wage war against God's Saints that you can read about in Matthew 24.


God is not talking about physical nations or kingdoms here! Not a physical famines. It is about two diverse spiritual kingdoms within His Congregation pitting Elects against Professed Christians and false prophets and christs. This must take place BEFORE Christ returns.

But i see how you're close because the "woman" from Revelation 12 are God's people being chased by the dragon. But this "woman" that we talk about from chapter 17 is different, she's the woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns. This is the harlot, not a part of the Christian congregation.

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In Revelation 12, the woman symbolizes the Congregation of God (Covenant Israel). At that time with Israel as a representative of God's kingdom. The symbolism in this chapter is of what took place with her both before Messiah came, but then after His ascension to the Throne (after the cross), THe kingdom representative was taken from Israel and gave to the Church. The church is now the woman God talked about in Revelation 18.

The congregation of God is often symbolized as a woman who is betrothed to God. The heaven where Woman was found is symbolizing the Kingdom of Heaven where the congregation dwells. Not in space or literal heaven as some supposed! That is why Satan was able to roam freely within old testament congregation of Israel ON EARTH to test Job. Satan did NOT stand before God in third heaven like many believed. No, Satan was within Old Testament congregation and deceived the kings of the earth against Christ at the Cross! As it is written:

[26] The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.
[27] For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,

This is a spiritual battle between Satan (Dragon) and his messengers (deceived believers) and Christ and his messengers (believers) until Satan was captured and cast out of the congregation of Israel was fallen so that Christ could rebuild in three days and establish His kingdom upon it! Being cast out, Satan was not able to prevent people, especially Gentiles, from being translated from his kingdom to Christ's kingdom by the testimony of Two Witnesses (Elect) during the New Testament period. This is why Christ has bound Satan for Elect's sake! Not for world's sake! Therefore, the church is now the great city that Christ has established a kingdom and called MANY into it. Keep it mind, NOT everyone are called into kingdom are truly saved!

[14] For many are called, but few are chosen.

So they are all kings of the earth but once Satan is loosened from bottomless pit, he will deceive many of those kings of the earth - the one that God has not yet sealed (Revelation 9:4-6), and gather them together to wage war against True Kings of the Earth. Unfortunately, God ALLOWS Satan to success by giving him the POWER to overcome the testimony of truthful testimony of Two Witnesses as a judgment upon the unfaithful congregation, or more specifically, the unfaithful kings of the earth who do not love the truth so they will actually believe a lie until Christ comes! THis is what the spiritual battle of armageddon is really all about - the judgment of God's unfaithful congregation and only the Elect can "see" for what it is.

Therfore, the great city is God's congregation, Church, all over the world.

LittleLambofJesus said:

"Woe to those who are with child and that give suck in those days" in 70ad:

Matthew 24:19
But woe to those that are with child, and those that give suck in those days.
Mark 13:17
But woe to those that are with child and to those that give suck in those days!
Luke 21:23
But woe to them that are with child and to them who give suck in those days,
for there shall be great distress upon the land and wrath upon this people.

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Sorry but the Olive Discourse is not about 70AD Jerusalem as most belief. Christ prophesied about HIs New Testament Congregation, the church, prior to Second Coming.

Therefore, the context shows that the elect must come out of the house because the house is full of abominations. All the unbelievers left there will be judgede. God in Matthew 24 has told us to flee from this house and it is woe unto them that give suck. Those that give suck is a phrase signifying the Church, whose job it is to spiritually feed the children. This is taken from the prophesy of Lamentations. You might "carefully" compare scripture with scripture to understand exactly who this passage refers to. Verse 19 clearly refers to the unsaved of God's house who will be under judgment. This is a spiritual famine. The church no longer fed the children, who die of starvation and thirst. There is no way this refers to a Woe to the election.

Lamentations 4:1-6

• "How is the gold become dim! how is the most fine gold changed! the stones of the sanctuary are poured out in the top of every street.
• The precious sons of Zion, comparable to fine gold, how are they esteemed as earthen pitchers, the work of the hands of the potter!
• Even the sea monsters draw out the breast, they give suck to their young ones: the daughter of my people is become cruel, like the ostriches in the wilderness.
• The tongue of the sucking child cleaveth to the roof of his mouth for thirst: the young children ask bread, and no man breaketh it unto them.
• They that did feed delicately are desolate in the streets: they that were brought up in scarlet embrace dunghills.
• For the punishment of the iniquity of the daughter of my people is greater than the punishment of the sin of Sodom, that was overthrown as in a moment, and no hands stayed on her."

Woe unto the unsaved who remains in an unfaithful church where false prophets and Christs sits (rules). They will come to you that they have Christ or Gospel Truth in their church, but Jesus warned us not to go there or believe it. Becuase it is a time of judgment of the harlot. Please read the whole context.

[19] And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
[20] But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
[21] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
[22] And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
[23] Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
[24] For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

This has nothing to do with Jerusalem 70A.D. since the context is about Christ and Church where False Christs and Prophets rules. The Gospel has already been preached unto the Gentiles and the church has already gone into the world before 70AD. You got wrong Jerusalem.

TribulationSigns said:

The kings of the earth are the people of the congregation that the King Jesus has appointed as kings and priests. Depending on context, the kings of the earth can be either Elect or Professed Christians, for example:

Revelation 1:5-6 KJV
[5] And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
[6] And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

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I'm reading this a bit different. But one of the things i got stuck on were these Bible translations. Most of them don't say: "And hath made us kings, most of them say:"And have made us a kingdom.


When John writes: "and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father", it reminds me of when Jesus said:


This makes me think of something that will take place much further down the road of history, after the thousand years are finished, when New Jerusalem comes to Earth.

So i don't think that the "great city" is going to rule over any kings of the church. The "kings" of the earth that the great city will rule over are the kings of the composite beast, seven heads and ten horns, that the harlot rides.

And since i think i can now hear this thing open it's mouth to blaspheme God and His dwelling place and those who live in Heaven, saying unheard of things against the God of gods, i don't think we have much more time to find out.`

So i'm fairly sure that when we get to this point:

TribulationSigns said:

Revelation 16:13-14 KJV
[13] And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.


[14] For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

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And this point:

TribulationSigns said:

Revelation 19:19 KJV
[19] And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

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We are going to be at the end stages of the vials. We are going to be in the air with holy angels at our side watching this wine press thing ama jig from the sky. When Jesus turns to us and says:


Because the thief comes also to kill and to destroy,
When the time comes to destroy the destroyers of the earth.

Peaceful Rest of the Sabbath.

Dave Watchman said:

I'm reading this a bit different. But one of the things i got stuck on were these Bible translations. Most of them don't say: "And hath made us kings, most of them say:"And have made us a kingdom.

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Beware of modern translations!

When John writes: "and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father"

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"Made us to be a kingdom and priests" does not make any sense.

It all depends on what our authority is, the Word of God or not.

Romans 15:12

• "And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust."

Revelation 5:10

• "And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth."

Revelation 1:5-6

• "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
• And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen."

Revelation 1:9

• "I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ."

Colossians 1:13

• "Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:"

Yet some people, especially premillennialists say, what King, what kingdom, what reign? They may not have a kingdom yet and may not reign with Christ, but according to the word of God, the ELECT sure does. They would do well to look for a better city than that built on that "patch of dirt in the middle east" known as Jerusalem. Look for one made without the hands of men.

Hebrews 11:16

• "But now they desire a better {country}, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city."

That better city, that heavenly city God's people desire is the "TRUE" Holy City Jerusalem from above, wherein Christ CURRENTLY reigns from, and has reigned since the ascension.

Revelation 5:10

• "And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth."

And indeed the saints "did" reign as Kings on earth. All of them, even as we do today. The statement is already true, not will be true in the future. We have already been made Kings and Priests unto God, and are already living and reigning on earth. And have been since the cross instituted the millennial reign of Christ's kingdom on earth. When Christ said my Kingdom is not of this world, He wasn't kidding, He was expounding on the scriptures.

Let read Revelation 1:5-6 again:

Revelation 1:5-6

• "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
• And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen."

Hath made, not will make. We already reign with Him on earth as Kings and Priests in the Kingdom

Revelation 1:9

• "I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ."

Not will, but Christ already has a Kingdom and has already made us reign as Kings and Priests in this Kingdom of God, right here on earth.

1st Peter 2:9

• "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:"

In the Greek, Royal Priesthood is the exact same as Kingdom of Priests. In fact, this verse is directly related to the Exodus 19:6 Kingdom of Priests passage. The Kingdom Of God on earth has already been established.

Luke 17:20-21

• "And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
• Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you."

Looking for an observable or physical Kingdom of Christ on earth is futile, even as Christ so plainly illustrated. His Kingdom does NOT come in such a manner so that it can be physically observed by man, because it is a Spiritual Kingdom. An invisible kingdom more powerful and glorious than any Kingdom that could be observed on earth, ever could be. And I am a king and priest of that kingdom and my job is to preach Gospel to men... until Christ returns.