How do you deal with conflicts?

Can modern science work alongside religion?

  • No. It’s one or the other.

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PVR

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I’m pretty new to all of this. I’ve been brought up in an agnostic (but Christian swinging) household, and recently felt the need to look to God.

During dark times, I found myself praying, and there was a comfort in that I hasn’t felt before. It’s been pretty earth shattering few weeks for someone, like me, who has never been religious.

Given that I wasn’t raised with these beliefs, I find myself challenging them more than I would if I had been presented it as unquestionable truth from a young age. I considered myself to be a logical, fact based person and whilst I know religion does require a leap of faith, there are aspects of the bible that don’t make sense to me and I can’t explain that away.

So, my question is this - How do you deal with the parts that conflict with modern science? Do you ignore the science? Or do you find a way to weave them together?

We have evidence dinosaurs existed, for example (it’s late and I’m tired, please excuse the obvious and childlike example) yet there’s no mention of this anywhere in the bible. Do you ignore the fossils? Do you take the bible literally, word for word to be truth, or use it as God given guidance?
 

Kevin Snow

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Certainly the bible is true and all of it is written for our instruction. Yahshua himself said that scripture cannot be broken! How strong is that? The God of heaven and earth said that it cannot be broken. (John 10:35)

It is about faith. Sooner or later the words of God will overtake the scientists and their drivel.

But my words and my statutes, which I commanded my servants the prophets, did they not overtake your fathers? So they repented and said, ‘As the LORD of hosts purposed to deal with us for our ways and deeds, so has he dealt with us.’” ~Zechariah 1:6

If you are not firm in faith, then you will not be firm at all. ~Isaiah 7:9
 
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A_Thinker

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So, my question is this - How do you deal with the parts that conflict with modern science? Do you ignore the science? Or do you find a way to weave them together?

We have evidence dinosaurs existed, for example (it’s late and I’m tired, please excuse the obvious and childlike example) yet there’s no mention of this anywhere in the bible. Do you ignore the fossils? Do you take the bible literally, word for word to be truth, or use it as God given guidance?

I'm an engineer, a fan of science, and a christian.

I don't have much trouble what I KNOW of science ... and my religious beliefs.

For instance, the dinosaurs you mentioned would have lived on the earth millions of years before the advent of the human race, ... so there is no record of dinosaurs in the Bible scriptures. (Although the Bible does mention Leviathan). If I'm not mistaken, there is no human artifact that serves as a record of dinosaurs roaming the earth.

I take the Bible as a human recording of life on Earth involving interaction with God (i.e. a higher intelligence). When considering the claims of modern science, it is reasonable to fathom a higher intelligence coming to (and seeding) Earth ... and periodically interacting with the planet's inhabitants to guide us in the way of intelligence and morality. In positing such interactions, it becomes reasonable to consider the records of miraculous happenings by Bible writers.

The science-fiction movie "Contact" gives a more scientific view of the same scenario, ... where Jodie Foster's character travels through an (alien provided) worm-hole transportation system, and, ultimately, meets with a representative of a federation of advanced galactic civilizations, ... who have been watching and guiding events on Earth, waiting for the time when mankind has reached a moral level necessary to become a part of the federation.
 
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A_Thinker

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I'm an engineer, a fan of science, and a christian.

I don't have much trouble what I KNOW of science ... and my religious beliefs.

For instance, the dinosaurs you mentioned would have lived on the earth millions of years before the advent of the human race, ... so there is no record of dinosaurs in the Bible scriptures. (Although the Bible does mention Leviathan). If I'm not mistaken, there is no human artifact that serves as a record of dinosaurs roaming the earth.

I take the Bible as a human recording of life on Earth involving interaction with God (i.e. a higher intelligence). When considering the claims of modern science, it is reasonable to fathom a higher intelligence coming to (and seeding) Earth ... and periodically interacting with the planet's inhabitants to guide us in the way of intelligence and morality. In positing such interactions, it becomes reasonable to consider the records of miraculous happenings by Bible writers.

The science-fiction movie "Contact" gives a more scientific view of the same scenario, ... where Jodie Foster's character travels through an (alien provided) worm-hole transportation system, and, ultimately, meets with a representative of a federation of advanced galactic civilizations, ... who have been watching and guiding events on Earth, waiting for the time when mankind has reached a moral level necessary to become a part of the federation.

Science and Faith need not be at odds. It is a result of human pride and exclusivity that we see such a conflict today.
 
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section9+1

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I don't take the bible with unbending literal interpretation, but the miracles and stories aren't hard to believe. If you believe God is the engineer and implementer of his creation, then why not believe them. He does act in this world so I see no problem with his accounts of events. Any conflict with science depends upon interpretation of the evidence and his motive for doing things. I believe the fossil evidence is real and I believe it was done by God as opposed to happening by itself.
 
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royal priest

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So, my question is this - How do you deal with the parts that conflict with modern science? Do you ignore the science? Or do you find a way to weave them together?

Do you take the bible literally, word for word to be truth, or use it as God given guidance?
The Creation and God's Word are a perfect harmony.
Psalms 19
The heavens declare the glory of God,
and the sky above proclaims his handiwork.
Day to day pours out speech,
and night to night reveals knowledge...
Their voice goes out through all the earth,
and their words to the end of the world...


The law of the Lord is perfect,
reviving the soul.
the precepts of the Lord are right,
rejoicing the heart.
The commandment of the Lord is pure,
enlightening the eyes...
by them is your servant warned;
in keeping them there is great reward.


If we observe conflict between nature and the Bible, it is because we have been influenced by the theories of men who have not been enlightened by the testimony of the Bible.
 
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Mike Czaj

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I’m pretty new to all of this. I’ve been brought up in an agnostic (but Christian swinging) household, and recently felt the need to look to God.

During dark times, I found myself praying, and there was a comfort in that I hasn’t felt before. It’s been pretty earth shattering few weeks for someone, like me, who has never been religious.

Given that I wasn’t raised with these beliefs, I find myself challenging them more than I would if I had been presented it as unquestionable truth from a young age. I considered myself to be a logical, fact based person and whilst I know religion does require a leap of faith, there are aspects of the bible that don’t make sense to me and I can’t explain that away.

So, my question is this - How do you deal with the parts that conflict with modern science? Do you ignore the science? Or do you find a way to weave them together?

We have evidence dinosaurs existed, for example (it’s late and I’m tired, please excuse the obvious and childlike example) yet there’s no mention of this anywhere in the bible. Do you ignore the fossils? Do you take the bible literally, word for word to be truth, or use it as God given guidance?

I affirm your seeking heart towards God and Truth. Having dynamic relationship with God is much more important than understanding Him (or thinking we do) with our intellect. As you trust God and seek Him, your mind is transformed by His Spirit, and some things you begin to understand, some things you recognize are not as important as you once thought, and some things remain a mystery, but not a hindrance to your walk and character growth.
As regards Science, there is much written by Christians which sees Science as General Revelation ( the heavens declare...) complimenting the truth of Scripture, and acknowledging that our human minds fall short of understanding the mechanics of God's miraculous power. But just as Christians have sometimes confused their image of how they understand truth to work with Eternal Truth , so more and more I see it done in Science, experts proclaiming "models" as if they were proven facts. So while I find the quest for harmony between Faith & Science interesting and even inspiring, what I really need to know is that God created the universe, God continues to act within the universe, and God will ultimately resolve the universe, at the return of Jesus Christ. At that time, I want to be found well pleasing to Him!
 
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Sanoy

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I have wondered about Job 40:15-24 and the behemoth. It's sometimes translated as a hippo but hippos don't really have tails like a cedar. There is actually artwork around the world depicting dinosaurs that has given me some doubt about the modern consensus. I still believe the consensus is the most evidenced case but I just can't explain this artwork, it's been a conundrum on my mind. And now that they have found dinosaur soft tissue and non fossilized bone it tugs on me even more, though it is at least nominally possible that those things could still remain over such a long period. But lets get back to the scientific consensus and the Bible.

There are two sections of science, speculative science and evidenced science. There is a lot of speculative science which does stand in conflict with the Bible but it doesn't stand with any compelling reason to accept. Then there is evidenced science which does have compelling reasons to accept. When those contrast against the Bible I look at the Bible and try to understand it better. In many cases our tradition is the source of the conflict rather than error. For example I committed myself to seeing if Genesis had a conflict with modern science by analyzing it from an Ancient Near East perspective. I am utterly amazed by the book of Genesis now. All of the weird things in Genesis, like the creation of light twice, the earth starting in water, the apparent creation of life before the sun that used to be mocked and should have been edited by the Israelites to make logical sense now show me just how amazing this book is and how amazing the Israelites were for not altering it. I wrote my notes down here, it's not finished but all the data is there.
 
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1watchman

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Your questions, PVR, are reasonable, and real science by real Christians are not prejudiced and closed to all truth, as are the Atheist type science people, who at best are using their philosophies like a religion and deliberately fighting against our Creator-God. I much recommend one visit the sound science site at www.icr.org to see what some Ph.D scientists are saying about God and His wondrous universe, world, and people. They will answer unbiased and earnest seekers.
 
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drich0150

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I’m pretty new to all of this. I’ve been brought up in an agnostic (but Christian swinging) household, and recently felt the need to look to God.

During dark times, I found myself praying, and there was a comfort in that I hasn’t felt before. It’s been pretty earth shattering few weeks for someone, like me, who has never been religious.

Given that I wasn’t raised with these beliefs, I find myself challenging them more than I would if I had been presented it as unquestionable truth from a young age. I considered myself to be a logical, fact based person and whilst I know religion does require a leap of faith, there are aspects of the bible that don’t make sense to me and I can’t explain that away.

So, my question is this - How do you deal with the parts that conflict with modern science? Do you ignore the science? Or do you find a way to weave them together?

We have evidence dinosaurs existed, for example (it’s late and I’m tired, please excuse the obvious and childlike example) yet there’s no mention of this anywhere in the bible. Do you ignore the fossils? Do you take the bible literally, word for word to be truth, or use it as God given guidance?
Look for common denominators. Science and God are not two mutually exclusive primises. Some dude once said that any race or civilization advanced far enough from another may appear to have supernatural powers or God like abilities. That was either Data or captian picard's interpretation of author c clark's quote.

I see "science' as man's system of identifying how God works. Think about it God is the God of this universe. he is alpha and omega the author creator so then why would he create something he can only move supernaturally through?

I would contend God is not a magic man fairy being who has to magic something when he wants it done. Imagine if God were tangible to everyone how would 'science' classify Him?

He would be an interdimensional being or a trans dimensional being. an alternate dimensional alien. This does not mean he has to look like the gorn or apollo from star trek, but at the same time he doesn't have to be what michelangelo depicted on the ceiling of the sistine chapel either. This is where our conflict comes in, in trying to keep God in a medieval box. meaning we in the church tend to try and keep the holy are of the dark ages our only picture of God. Which is beyond foolish if you ask anyone expt those in the church.

So then if God is creator of this and his universe then everything he does potentially will have a scientific explanation to it.. which certainly puts him light years ahead of the medieval God. Remember no where in the bible does it say God has to always be an enigma, that man is forbidden to know of God.

It is only with the idea that God must remain a mysterious old genie father figure clothed in robes that science is an enemy of. Because my God the creator of everything is supported by science.

(If you are having trouble with genesis and evolution I have a thread on that in the theology section)
 
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Lukaris

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Science in conformity to God is fine and living by God’s commandments ( Matthew 22:36-40 etc.) in applying scientific principles to life should be a basic, sound framework for living. This basic framework should guide us to do what is right vs. abusing technology to oppress others.

Granted, there are plenty of problems between the purity of this & daily reality. Without this though, I think we would have self destructed already. Whatever good we can do and we are blessed with is of God ( James 1:17-18).
 
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