Healing, and the truth in God's Word.

hhodgson

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I have attended many prayer meetings for those sick in our church, some for people I have no memory of them ever being fit, healthy people. A great many prayers have been said for these people. Yet God chose not to heal them.


John... It's not that God chose NOT to heal them. Where was their faith in those prayer meetings? Was it in their prayers (alone) or was it the prayer of (faith) being applied. Major difference! God answers our prayers "according to our faith" (Ephesians 3:20). Even God asks, (Luke 18:8) "Will there be any faith when I return on the earth?"

God's Word also says He is longsuffering in waiting for His people to (just simply) BELIEVE.

(2 Peter 3:9) "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward."
Any church can have prayer meetings all day long, however... The Church of Jesus Christ has to BELIEVE by applying their (faith) to receive (anything) from God. The answer to, "will Jesus find faith when He returns?" Yes... and "no." That's up to you and you alone. "...fear not, "Only Believe!" (Mark 5:36)


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Tolworth John

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Where was their faith in those prayer meetings?
Please do Not repeat these lies of the devil.

It is the prayer of a rightous man that is required. The faith of the sick is never questioned.

As you are wrong in your opening line the rest of your responce is equally not worth reading.
 
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Simon the Tanner

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I have attended many prayer meetings for those sick in our church, some for people I have no memory of them ever being fit, healthy people.
A great many prayers have been said for these people.
Yet God chose not to heal them.


God is soverirgn he determines what happens not us.

I find it very revealing that when asked about unhealed people you tell me of healings, and not of those who have lived for years with life threatening conditions and are still living with this condition.
Tell me how does your church care for such people?

God does not simply choose not to heal, as you stated. Jesus said "if you've seen Me you've seen The Father". (John 14:9) So we can see the will of God regarding healing in the ministry of Jesus, and He never chose not to heal anybody.

The Bible gives us a number of reasons that people fail to receive healing.

Sin – David said “If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear.” (Ps. 66:18) Jesus also shows us that some sicknesses, not all, are a result of sin. (John 5:14) You can see in the Old Testament that God warned Israel of the sicknesses that would come upon them as a result of disobedience. To deny that sin can bring on sickness would be difficult for a Bible-believing Christian to do.

Asking with wrong motives – James said that you won’t receive if you ask with wrong motives just to satisfy your carnal desires. (Jas. 4:3) John said that if we ask according to His will He hears us and we receive. (I John 5:14,15) It’s important to make sure that we ask only for things that are consistent with the expressed will of God revealed in the Word of God for the glory of God.

Pride – James said that God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble. (Jas. 4:6) You can also see this taught in Proverbs 16:18, “Pride goes before destruction …”. Nebudchadnezzar’s pride was dealt with through insanity. (Dan. 5:17-21), and Herod Agrippa was also judged for pride. (Acts 12:22,23)

Unforgiveness – Jesus mentioned the need for us to forgive if we have anything against anybody, so that our prayers won’t be hindered. (Mark 11:25) Doctors will confirm that many people are sick as a result of bitterness.

Strife – I Peter 3:7 tells us that strife in a marriage can hinder our prayers. I personally believe that strife in any relationship will do the same.


However, we're never told that some people fail to receive healing because it simply wasn't God's will.
 
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Tolworth John

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owever, we're never told that some people fail to receive healing because it simply wasn't God's will.

Then you do not understand what you are doing.

If someone is healed, whether miraculously or not is God healing.
If someone is not healed that is God.

To believe that something else is stopping God from acting is to believe God is not God.
 
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Simon the Tanner

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So how do you account for the fact that Jesus could do no mighty works in Nazareth because of their unbelief in Mark 6:5? Did God become "not God"?

This is a hyper-sovereignty theology that is fatalistic and in effect absolves man of any responsibility before God. Throughout the Bible we're told that if we do certain things we'll get good results, and if we do other things we'll get bad results. It doesn't say "try as you might you'll never influence God one way or the other because He's God and He's sovereign!" We have the responsibility to live holy before God, to believe and act on His Word, to walk in love, to live in obedience, and to seek Him with all our hearts. If we fail to do those things there will be consequences, not because God is God but because we have free will and are accountable to God for our actions.
 
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now faith

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Then you do not understand what you are doing.

If someone is healed, whether miraculously or not is God healing.
If someone is not healed that is God.

To believe that something else is stopping God from acting is to believe God is not God.

Have you considered cause and effect?
If you had children, you would love and provide for them I hope.
Would your treatment of them, be effected by their behavior?
 
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Tolworth John

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Have you considered cause and effect?
If you had children, you would love and provide for them I hope.
Would your treatment of them, be effected by their behavior?

What you are saying is that when your children miss behave you do not punish them or if they are obedient you do not reward them.
Of course how one treats ones children is influenced by their behaviour. What doesn't change is ones love for and of them.

But this has nothing to do with the false claims that we 'must' be healed.
 
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Simon the Tanner

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What you are saying is that when your children miss behave you do not punish them or if they are obedient you do not reward them.
Of course how one treats ones children is influenced by their behaviour. What doesn't change is ones love for and of them.

But this has nothing to do with the false claims that we 'must' be healed.

Nobody claims that we must be healed. WoF (and the Bible) teaches that healing has been provided by the stripes of Jesus, and we receive it by believing, speaking, and acting on God's Word.

I have serious doubts about your ability to be objective or even honest on this subject.
 
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Tolworth John

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Nobody claims that we must be healed. WoF (and the Bible) teaches that healing has been provided by the stripes of Jesus, and we receive it by believing, speaking, and acting on God's Word.

I have serious doubts about your ability to be objective or even honest on this subject.

We are healed of the alienation from God.
That is all that matters.

That you do not believe your own teaching can be shown by whether or not you have medical insurance.
 
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hhodgson

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Please do Not repeat these lies of the devil.

Question, Why are you here?

It is the prayer of a righteous man that is required. The faith of the sick is never questioned.

The prayer of a "righteous" man is required means what? I'll say it this way, "How about the prayer of a "unrighteous" man? James is talking about the believer here. The prayers of the unrighteous (unbeliever) is just noise, (unless) "by faith" they accept Jesus Christ as their Savior. God has declared and (made) you "righteous" the minute you received Him in your life, by His finished works through the cross. His Word actually says, (James 5:16) "The effectual, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much."

Effectual: Valid, legitimate, binding, etc.
Fervent: Heartfelt, sincere, passionate, etc.

So, to your quote, "prayer of a righteous man that is required" is correct... (initially!) - But, that means the Word is talking to the believer to (start with). To the unrighteous it's just noise, however!... to the righteous (believer), it can ALSO, be... just noise.

What's missing?

Let's back up just one verse that answers this....

(James 5:15) "And the ----> prayer of faith will save the one who is sick and the Lord will raise him up--and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven."

It doesn't matter if it's the prayer of faith of the (sick person), OR, the prayer of faith of the (elders) of the church, OR, the prayer of faith of any (evangelist) in a healing line. God is only pleased with whoever ----> Only Believes! (Hebrews 11:6) "Without faith, it is impossible to please God."

If faith isn't applied, the result is (all noise).


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now faith

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As I have said before many times.
FAITH is mentioned in God's Word 247 times 2 times in Old Testament, 245 times in the New.
What are the beliefs of those who discount the importance of Faith
In God.
Christ exalted the Faith of a Gentile over the Jews.
A Roman Centurion had more Faith in Christ than the people who knew of his promises by the old Testament prophesy.
Jesus taught all to have Faith in God, yet. We banter over healing and all the promises of God.
The best I can reconcile about the lack of Faith today, is false teaching.
I suppose you confess Christ and state you believe , and that's it.
No difference between God's people and the world.
No authority by the name above all names JESUS.
At some point in our walk with God He wants us to grow, mature, and disern things of the Holy Spirit.
Get off the milk and start feeding your Spirit strong meat.

2 Timothy 2: 13. If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. 14. Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. 15. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16. But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

Forget what you hear and read God's Word for yourself.

1 John 2: 25. And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. 26. These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. 28. And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. 29. If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

Seek Baptism of the Holy Spirit.
To baptize is to be immersed completely, filled with the Spirit of God who is God.
We are commanded to be Baptized in the Holy Spirit.
Not your will but God's gift to all in Christ.

John Tolworth, we are not here to harm you, we are here to help you.
It is almost impossible to tell a non believer about
the Spiritual nature of God who wants to proslize among mature
Christians.

If you believe in salvation, why is it so hard to believe in the entire Blessing of God in Christ ?
We are not a shooting range for young Calvinist.
 
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Simon the Tanner

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We are healed of the alienation from God.
That is all that matters.

That you do not believe your own teaching can be shown by whether or not you have medical insurance.

I don't have medical insurance, not that it's relevant. It's also not God's will that His children sin, but sometimes we do. The fact that Christians get sick, even if they're WoF, doesn't change God's will. You're making a non-bible based argument.
 
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Tolworth John

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Question, Why are you here?

To give answers to questions.

Yes faith is necesary for someone to be healed, but what is not and is never in question is the faith of the sick person.

The standard excuse offered by charletans is that the sick person did not have enough faith.
As I have said that is a lie of the devil.

Have you never read that Jesus said he would never break a bruised reed or quench a smoking candle, yet enormous demands of faith are made by charletons on people who are already suffering.
 
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Simon the Tanner

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To give answers to questions.

Yes faith is necesary for someone to be healed, but what is not and is never in question is the faith of the sick person.

The standard excuse offered by charletans is that the sick person did not have enough faith.
As I have said that is a lie of the devil.

Have you never read that Jesus said he would never break a bruised reed or quench a smoking candle, yet enormous demands of faith are made by charletons on people who are already suffering.

First of all, Jesus didn't say that. Matthew said it, and he was quoting Isaiah. And he wasn't talking about the faith of the sick when he said it. He was talking about Jesus' willingness to minister to the sick, the poor, and the downtrodden unlike the Pharisees.

Now let's take a look at what Jesus said about faith when it comes to healing and deliverance.
"Daughter, your faith has healed you. Go in peace and be freed from your suffering." (Mark 5:34 - woman with the issue of blood)
"Rise and go; your faith has made you well." (Luke 17:19 - The cleansed leper)
"... your faith has healed you." (Mark 10:52 - blind man)
"When Jesus saw their faith, he said, “Friend, your sins are forgiven.” (Luke 5:20 - the paralytic)
"Because of your unbelief" (Mat. 17:20 regarding the epileptic boy the disciples couldn't deliver from demons)
"5 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them.
6 And he marveled because of their unbelief." (Mark 6:5,6 regarding the unbelief in Nazareth)

Now let's see what James said about faith and healing.

"And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise them up." (James 5:15)

In Acts 14 Paul perceived that a lame man had faith to be healed and told him to stand up, and he did. (Acts 14:8-10)

So I would say that faith does indeed play a role in healing, if not the faith of the sick then the faith of the person praying for the sick. To deny the role that faith plays in healing is to ignore the plain teaching of the Bible on the matter.
 
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Tolworth John

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I don't have medical insurance, not that it's relevant. It's also not God's will that His children sin, but sometimes we do. The fact that Christians get sick, even if they're WoF, doesn't change God's will. You're making a non-bible based argument.

Good that you are consistent with your belief.

As for non biblical argument, there is nothing wrong with that if it proves a point.
You have answered one non biblical point but ignored the other I made, about how many sick, terminaly ill people are in your congragation and how does the congragation treat them?

I have met too many people with serious medical issues who have left churches that taught that Jesus came to heal all our infirmities, because they weren't healed.
They had no message,feeling, biblical promise etc etc that they would be healed, yet they were forced out by the expectation of others that they would be healed and the suspicions that they didn't have faith to be healed.

So again how does your congragation support those with terminal illness or life long illnesses?
 
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now faith

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I don't base my beliefs on anecdotal evidence. I go by what the Bible says. If everybody in my church was terminally ill that wouldn't change the Word of God.

You know, that reminds me of a Winston Churchill qoute:

When your going through Hell, keep going.
It may seem to be a abstract thing to say, but its true.
Nothing going on in our lives changes God or His Word.

2 Corinthians 4: 8. We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; 9. Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed; 10. Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.

In bantering with a Nephew I have come to realize he seeks but cannot find his answers.
So his answer is it's God's will that is a great mystery, for our life.
He thinks some are Healed by God, and some are not due to a higher cause in God's will.
I have given him the Schripture and tried to tell him about God's Word.
He needs to mature and study for himself, because often our calls gender strife.
He will say ; your into that name it claim it stuff!
The other day I was tired and told him you do not have salvation.
And I would say that to anyone who denies the Promises of God.
You simply cannot serve two ideologies.
You have a Free will, and you must believe all or nothing.

I believe my Nephew has salvation, He speaks up for Christ all over the internet.
I was making a point to him and anyone who denies God's Word due to ignorance.

It's called fire insurance theology, and it has been a curse on Christianty since the Cross.
They taunted Jesus and said heal yourself.
He forgave them because they had no idea what incredible mercy and grace God was giving to mankind.
Still today the grace and mercy of God has not changed, and by His stripes we WERE healed.
 
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hhodgson

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I have met too many people with serious medical issues who have left churches that taught that Jesus came to heal all our infirmities, because they weren't healed. They had no message, feeling, biblical promise, etc. that they would be healed, yet they were forced out by the expectation of others that they would be healed and the suspicions that they didn't have faith to be healed. So again how does your congregation support those with terminal illness or life long illnesses?

To be clear and foremost... we would love them as God loves us (no brainer). We wouldn't encourage them to leave, or to be forced out by any expectations from anyone, but we do (encourage) them to meditate on God's Word, [and]... let God's Word (richly dwell) within them, [and]... to (enhance) their faith by the hearing/reading of the Word, [and]... to also seek wisdom, with the knowledge, and understanding of the Word of God, [and]... to (constantly) renew their minds with the Word. (Just to name a few)

(Joshua 1:8) "This book of the law shall not depart out of your mouth; but you shall (meditate) therein day and night, that you may observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then you shall make your way prosperous, and then you shall have good success."

(Colossians 3:16) "Let the Word of Christ (richly dwell) within you as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God."

(Romans 10:17) "Consequently, faith comes by (hearing, and hearing) by the Word of Christ."

(Proverbs 2:6-7) "For the LORD gives (wisdom) out of his mouth comes knowledge and understanding…"

(Romans 12:2) "And be not conformed to this world: but be transformed by the (renewing of your mind), that you may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."
Even Jesus questioned His twelve disciples, "Where is your faith" or, "Oh ye of little faith" or, Why do you still have no faith?" The Word (throughout) speaks of: little faith, great faith, weak faith, strong faith, lack of faith, perfect faith, dead faith, full faith, growing faith, and increasing faith. To start out, God gave ALL believers the same measure of faith, (Actually, the same measure Jesus had.) But, that given faith (will dwindle down) if we allow doubt and unbelief take over our situations in life.

The questions remains. Where is your faith/their faith (as of right now), if we compare to the list of the ten different degrees of faith mentioned above? To receive healing or (any promise of God), which degree of faith is required, FOR , it will be done.... (according to YOUR faith), or their faith. So, to the question Jesus asked, "Will I find faith?" Or, "Will my people be destroyed for lack of knowledge; because they have rejected knowledge" (Hosea 4:6).

(Luke 18:7-8) "Will not God bring about justice for His elect who cry out to Him day and night? Will He continue to defer their help? I tell you, He will promptly carry out justice on their behalf. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, "will He find faith on the earth?”
Please re-review the five scriptures (above) that I have chosen to encourage meditating on the Word, that richly dwells within us, and to receive faith by hearing and hearing the Word, and to seek wisdom with knowledge and understanding, and then, use the wisdom to NOT be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the (renewing of our minds), that we may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God".... and to "Only Believe!"


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yeshuaslavejeff

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(maybve already posted by someone else)
WHY didn't Jesus do many miracles in some towns ?


To believe that something else is stopping God from acting is to believe God is not God.


Why were many sick and dying in Corinth ?

Why (what lack of) do many of "My people" PERISH ? (instead of being healed)
 
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