Why is sunday the sabbath? And do you keep the sabbath?

ewq1938 · Jul 15, 2018

Devin P said:
Jesus wasn't traveling for a sacrifice, or a command, which would make Him breaking that command. Again, there's another contradiction you'd have to answer for.

He had permission to break the Sabbath. It's all contained in the passage...why not just read it?

Jesus could not sin, because He was our perfect example. If He didn't keep the sabbath perfectly, then He was in sin, and wasn't blameless.

You keep saying that but you remain incorrect.

Devin P · Jul 15, 2018

ewq1938 said:
He had permission to break the Sabbath. It's all contained in the passage...why not just read it?

You keep saying that but you remain incorrect.

Where did he have permission to break God's Holy Law? Where did He have permission to sin?

chilehed · Jul 15, 2018

FaithfulProphet said:
Why is sunday the sabbath? And do you keep the sabbath?
.

Sunday is the Lord's Day, not the Sabbath. I observe Sunday as the day of rest, because the teaching authority established by Christ, having the power to do so, transferred that observance from Saturday.

ewq1938 · Jul 15, 2018

Devin P said:
Where did he have permission to break God's Holy Law? Where did He have permission to sin?

Same passage we have been talking about.

Eloy Craft · Jul 15, 2018

Job3315 said:
I learned about resting on the Sabbath but never took it seriously. Over a year ago I heard a message that convinced me about the importance of the Sabbath, but due to my work I decided to have it on mondays. That day I rest, literally; no errands, no appointments, no study, no church, etc. I realized that I was helping in Church (working) and sneaking little things like errands and doctors appointment while calling it “rest”. So I decided to just rest. Sometimes I have to change the day, and I might do a little organizing and cleaning because those things actually relax me and keep my mind occupied. I hear the Lord better when my mind is busy.

If you go to church on sunday you worship and rest in the eternal Sabbath. The One eternal day of which is the eighth day and the first day of the vweek. The OT sabbath was a forshadow of the Lords Day.

Devin P · Jul 15, 2018

ewq1938 said:
Same passage we have been talking about.

I'm unaware of what you're talking about, can you link it please? I was talking about the sabbath being relevant today. You keep referring to one where you say Jesus is permitted to sin, but I'm unaware of such a passage.

chinese buffet · Jul 15, 2018

I go to the buffet on Saturdays

dreadnought · Jul 15, 2018

chinese buffet said:
I go to the buffet on Saturdays

Don't eat too much.

ewq1938 · Jul 15, 2018

Devin P said:
I'm unaware of what you're talking about, can you link it please?

Jesus also broke the Sabbath without blame which means he had a moral reason to break it that meant he was not guilty of anything.

So yes, Christ and his disciples broke the Sabbath in multiple ways:

Traveling is forbidden on the Sabbath (Exodus 16:29), gathering is forbidden (Numbers 15:36), and not having enough food for two days is required so gathering food is two ways to break the Sabbath (Exodus 16:22) so that's three.

Mat 12:1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.
Mat 12:2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.

Mat 12:3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;
Mat 12:4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?
Mat 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
Mat 12:6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
Mat 12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Jesus did break the Sabbath but he did so without blame. Christ gave two other examples of the Sabbath being broken without it being sinful as a further defense. He also is the Lord of the Sabbath and the Sabbath laws don't even apply to him anyways so he could break the Sabbath without it being sinful.

Exo 16:29 See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.

The command is to remain in your place and not leave. If you travel somewhere for personal reasons you are breaking this command.

Num 15:32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
Num 15:33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
Num 15:34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
Num 15:35 And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
Num 15:36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.

Gathering on the Sabbath is not allowed, whether it's sticks or food/grains.

Exo 16:22 And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses.

It is not allowed to gather any food on the Sabbath because it was commanded to gather double the day before.

All these three commands were broken by Christ and his disciples, yet without blame or sin.

I was talking about the sabbath being relevant today. You keep referring to one where you say Jesus is permitted to sin, but I'm unaware of such a passage.

No, I didn't say Jesus sinned. You are the only one that has said that in various postings. It's a false conclusion.

Devin P · Jul 15, 2018

ewq1938 said:
Jesus also broke the Sabbath without blame which means he had a moral reason to break it that meant he was not guilty of anything.

So yes, Christ and his disciples broke the Sabbath in multiple ways:

Traveling is forbidden on the Sabbath (Exodus 16:29), gathering is forbidden (Numbers 15:36), and not having enough food for two days is required so gathering food is two ways to break the Sabbath (Exodus 16:22) so that's three.

Mat 12:1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.
Mat 12:2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.

Well, not exactly no. See, the Pharisees passed an oral law, saying that you couldn't pluck food from the fields, which wasn't true. No where in scripture does that law exist, because if that was true, since according to God's law, farmers weren't supposed to harvest the corners of their fields, nor were they supposed to glean the remnants of their fields, so that the poor could go out and grab food to eat.

The Pharisees however, made an oral law, saying no gleaning could happen, which essentially starved the poor that would go from field to field, gleaning for themselves on the sabbath.

His disciples gleaned, and gathered, just as David did, when the priests gave him some of the showbread off the table of showbread. Jesus was pointing out that hey, no, this isn't God's law, this is your tradition.

Mat 12:3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;
Mat 12:4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?
Mat 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
Mat 12:6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
Mat 12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Well, look at what He's quoting in verse 7: Hosea chapter 6, in which is mentioned the tendency of Israel and Judah to transgress His law, for the sake of them setting up their idolatry, and wicked ways, ignoring His laws, and knowledge of Him. Causing men to do the same.

Jesus did break the Sabbath but he did so without blame. Christ gave two other examples of the Sabbath being broken without it being sinful as a further defense. He also is the Lord of the Sabbath and the Sabbath laws don't even apply to him anyways so he could break the Sabbath without it being sinful.

He wasn't saying that the priests broke the sabbath, without blame, He was saying that they broke the sabbath without blame, because they broke the sabbath regulations and laws that Judah placed up themselves. They didn't profane the sabbath according to God's law, otherwise just as in Leviticus 10, God's wrath would've consumed them for doing things contrary to how He demanded they be done. They profaned the sabbath according to the talmudic principals the pharisees have created through their man-made oral laws they've passed down for thousands of years.

Exo 16:29 See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.

The command is to remain in your place and not leave. If you travel somewhere for personal reasons you are breaking this command.

Num 15:32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
Num 15:33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
Num 15:34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
Num 15:35 And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
Num 15:36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.

Gathering on the Sabbath is not allowed, whether it's sticks or food/grains.

It's not allowed if it's work, but it's fine if you are simply gleaning from a field for scraps to eat, because that's what the poor were to do. That, and we can be sure it's okay, because had it not been, Jesus would've rebuked His disciples for transgressing the law.

Exo 16:22 And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses.

It is not allowed to gather any food on the Sabbath because it was commanded to gather double the day before.

All these three commands were broken by Christ and his disciples, yet without blame or sin.

No, I didn't say Jesus sinned. You are the only one that has said that in various postings. It's a false conclusion.

Devin P · Jul 15, 2018

ewq1938 said:
Jesus also broke the Sabbath without blame which means he had a moral reason to break it that meant he was not guilty of anything.

So yes, Christ and his disciples broke the Sabbath in multiple ways:

Traveling is forbidden on the Sabbath (Exodus 16:29), gathering is forbidden (Numbers 15:36), and not having enough food for two days is required so gathering food is two ways to break the Sabbath (Exodus 16:22) so that's three.

Mat 12:1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.
Mat 12:2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.

Mat 12:3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;
Mat 12:4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?
Mat 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
Mat 12:6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
Mat 12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Jesus did break the Sabbath but he did so without blame. Christ gave two other examples of the Sabbath being broken without it being sinful as a further defense. He also is the Lord of the Sabbath and the Sabbath laws don't even apply to him anyways so he could break the Sabbath without it being sinful.

Exo 16:29 See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.

The command is to remain in your place and not leave. If you travel somewhere for personal reasons you are breaking this command.

Num 15:32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
Num 15:33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
Num 15:34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
Num 15:35 And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
Num 15:36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.

Gathering on the Sabbath is not allowed, whether it's sticks or food/grains.

Exo 16:22 And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses.

It is not allowed to gather any food on the Sabbath because it was commanded to gather double the day before.

All these three commands were broken by Christ and his disciples, yet without blame or sin.

No, I didn't say Jesus sinned. You are the only one that has said that in various postings. It's a false conclusion.

Idk man, we'll probably never agree though. I hope we do one day, but until then, I'm sure we could both be doing other things with our time.

ewq1938 · Jul 15, 2018

Devin P said:
Idk man, we'll probably never agree though. I hope we do one day, but until then, I'm sure we could both be doing other things with our time.

Yeah I concluded the same. Take care.

baryogenesis · Jul 15, 2018

Shabbat (the "Sabbath") is from sunset Friday evening through to sunset Saturday evening.

dqhall · Jul 15, 2018

StephenDiscipleofYHWH said:
Saturday is still the Sabbath day and has never changed, nor will it ever change.

The Apostles and Christ Never preached nor kept another Sabbath day but kept the same day that has always been kept(Acts 13:14, Acts 13:42-44, Acts 15:21, Acts 16:13, Acts 17:1-3, Acts 18:4). Christ is the Lord of the Sabbath day(mark 2:27-28) had another day been given for rest then he would have spoken of it(Hebrews 4:8) but no other day was given. Instead we are told that the sabbath day(Saturday) still Remains as our day of rest(Hebrews 4:1-11) that even in the New heavens and the New earth is the Sabbath day being kept(Isaiah 66:23). The sabbath has been kept since the beginning by both the Lord and the angels(Genesis 2:2).

Only The Book of the Covenant(Exodus 34:27; Exodus 24:7; 2 Kings 23:21; 2 Kings 23:2) was fulfilled(along with the Promise of Faith and other prophecies) as it was only for a time, that is why he said there was going to be a new covenant(Jeremiah 31:31-34, Isaiah 28:10,13-19, Ezekiel 36:23-27,29-31). That is why the book of law, written by the hand of Moses(Exodus 34:27; Nehemiah 9:13,14) was not placed inside the ark of the Covenant with the ten commandments that were written in stone by the finger of God Twice (Deuteronomy 10:2-5;Exodus 25:16; Exodus 31:16-18; Exodus 34:1), but were instead placed by the side ofthe ark( Deut 31:26) signifying that the book of law(the book of the covenant) was only for a time till Christ fulfilled them(Matt 5:17-18). The Ten commandments can all be shown in the New testament that we are to keep them, this includes the Keeping of the sabbath day(Saturday), the Ten commandments are still in effect and the Day of rest has not changed.

I hope this has helped you, may the peace and light of the Lord God Y

ewq1938 said:
Oh?

Exo 16:29 See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.

Traveling on a Sabbath was something the elders made up, not something the law allowed:

Gill:

Which, is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey. The Syriac version renders it, "about seven furlongs", or near a mile; though Josephus (r) writes, that the Mount of Olives was but five furlongs from Jerusalem: perhaps this may be a mistake in the present copies of Josephus, since Chrysostom on this place cites this passage of Josephus, and reads seven furlongs; which exactly agrees with the Syriac version. A sabbath day's journey, according to the Jews, was two thousand cubits from any city or town, and which they often called, ???? ???, "the bound of the sabbath" (s); and which they collect partly from Num_35:4 which they understand thus (t):

"a thousand cubits are the suburbs (of the city), and two thousand cubits the bounds of the sabbath.

And these were so many middling paces; for so they say (u),

"a walk of two thousand middling paces, this is the bound of the sabbath.

And that this was the proper space they also gather from Jos_3:4 it being the distance between the ark and the people when they marched; and though this was not fixed by the law, yet being a tradition of the elders, was strictly observed by them: so when Ruth desired to become a proselytess, the Targumist on Rth_1:16 introduces Naomi thus speaking to her,

"says Naomi, we are commanded to keep the sabbaths, and the good days, (or feasts,) and not to walk above "two thousand cubits";

i.e. on those days; for to go further was reckoned a profanation of them: so it is said (w),

Traveling on the Sabbath was something man added against God's command to not go out of your place.

According to the Jewish sages in the Mishna, Jews were allowed to go a short distance on the Sabbath to attend synagogue. There are laws about 39 types of work a Jew is not supposed to do on a Sabbath. Elevators in hotels in Israel stop on every floor during Shabaht/Sabbath, as it is illegal to push a button on the Sabbath, as that is work. It is legal for a Jew to walk up the stairs of a hotel without an elevator on the Sabbath to return from a synagogue meeting. Another synagogue group stayed in a meeting room all day Saturday until sundown to avoid the appearance of breaking the Sabbath. Sabbath began sundown Friday and ended sundown Saturday. These Sabbath laws were a hindrance to some.

Check Acts 15. The apostles did not make these Jewish laws, including Sabbath confinement, mandatory for Gentile believers. We may assume the laws against adultery, murder, theft and false testimony are yet valid as Jesus taught them and they are in the Gospels.

Acts 15:23 (KJV) And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia.
24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
30 So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch: and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle:
31 Which when they had read, they rejoiced for the consolation.

Dan1988 · Jul 15, 2018

woobadooba said:
I can only admit that temptation to sin will be present for the rest of my life. How I respond to it will determine the outcome. I am the only one who must take responsibility for my choices. Should I choose wrongly, then I have assurance of this promise: 1 John 1:9 (NKJV) "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

The sin you may commit today may not be a sin you commit tomorrow. It is possible never to repeat a sin. If one sin can be overcome, then why not all? It all comes down to our choices.

I'm a bit confused now, you still haven't admitted that you will continue to sin every day of your life no matter how hard you try to resist the temptation.

Some of the greatest men in the Bible were murderers and adulterers, so you don't need to feel too guilty about committing common everyday sins. God has already forgiven you for all past, present and future sins if you are a believer.

Dan1988 · Jul 15, 2018

pat34lee said:
When you finished your homework in school, does that mean nobody ever had to do homework again?
Look up fulfill because Churches tend to make up their own definition to fit their theology.

We do good works because we are saved, not to be saved. If you agree then we're on the same page and there is no dispute.

Dan1988 · Jul 15, 2018

pat34lee said:
You don't speak Hebrew, and he didn't speak English.
Belief is what you do, not what you think.
http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/articles_aman.html

Jesus is the Torah.
If you love me, keep my commandments. That is not just the NT.

Jesus only gave us one command and that was "believe" in me and you shall be saved. Are you trying to add the law to Christs finished work on the cross?

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 15, 2018

Romans 2 says if you say you believe, you have Scripture,
yet you DO NOT TORAH, then you ARE NOT JUSTIFIED.

i.e. if you believe, like the demons believe, it will do you no good.

Myychael · Jul 15, 2018

16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days Jehovah made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

this is a forever covenant between Jehovah and the children of Israel not for Gentiles
i was hoping a messianic brother or sister would reply i no there's messianic
congregations out there.I would fall in and worship with them on the Jewish Sabbath
day and invite them to worship with me on Sunday.I believe we are free to worship
seven days a week pick one I believe Jesus and the Apostles preached and taught on the Jewish Sabbath they were Jews though Paul did say
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a feast day or a new moon or a sabbath day: 17 which are a shadow of the things to come; but the body is Christ's.

18 Let no man rob you of your prize by a voluntary humility and worshipping of the angels, dwelling in the things which he hath seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast the Head, from whom all the body, being supplied and knit together through the joints and bands, increasing with the increase of God.

Dan1988 · Jul 15, 2018

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Romans 2 says if you say you believe, you have Scripture,
yet you DO NOT TORAH, then you ARE NOT JUSTIFIED.

i.e. if you believe, like the demons believe, it will do you no good.

You mean if a person believes as the reprobate do, it will do them no good. The Demons know who Christ is, and they know the scriptures better than any Christian but salvation was never given to them. They are sealed for destruction, no matter how much they repent and believe.

All we need to do is believe in Christ for the forgiveness of our sins and we are guaranteed to inherit eternal paradise. God knows it's impossible for us to keep the law, that's why He sent His Son to keep it and fulfill it on our behalf so we just simply revive the finished product.

Our pastor told us to watch out for Jewdisers, who try to push the idea that we need to keep the law in order to be saved. That's not Biblical, it takes us back under the law where everyone is damned.

Why is sunday the sabbath? And do you keep the sabbath?

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