Discussion Why The So called Spirit filled churches perpetuate the LIE of the LAW of the TITHE

Alithis · Jul 5, 2018

It is such wide spread knowledge these days that this is false teaching and YET.. it is still perpetuated by So many congregations who claim to be charismatic and led of the Spirit .. the question then is which spirit are they being led by if they teach a know false hood and have not repented of doing so .
we ARE to TEST the Spirits for NOT every spirit is OF GOD..

on the same morning meeting you will led in a song reminded you are free fom the law and 10 minutes later have the law of the tithe imposed upon you ...-double standard much?

what is behind this imposition and coercion of tithing and worse the Coercion and manipulation of coerced "giving "? well that's kind of obvious .. MONEY

Anto9us · Jul 5, 2018

why are you aiming TITHE-demanding at charismatic/spirit-filled churches?

Alithis · Jul 5, 2018

Anto9us said:
why are you aiming TITHE-demanding at charismatic/spirit-filled churches?

because i am a spirit filed believer posting in the spirit filled forum .
i expect non-holy spirit filled churches to perpetuate lies .they do not have the Holy Spirit of truth
but i expect far MORE from those who CLAIM to be Spirit filled .
yet their actions speak other wise -that is "why " i address the issue in this particular forum .

and you im sure would jump on me as NON Methodist if i posted it as "why do methodists perpetuate the lie of the tithe or coerced giving in the methodist section.. right ?

Saint Steven · Jul 5, 2018

Alithis said:
It is such wide spread knowledge these days that this is false teaching and YET.. it is still perpetuated by So many congregations who claim to be charismatic and led of the Spirit .. the question then is which spirit are they being led by if they teach a know false hood and have not repented of doing so .
we ARE to TEST the Spirits for NOT every spirit is OF GOD..

on the same morning meeting you will led in a song reminded you are free fom the law and 10 minutes later have the law of the tithe imposed upon you ...-double standard much?

what is behind this imposition and coercion of tithing and worse the Coercion and manipulation of coerced "giving "? well that's kind of obvious .. MONEY

Wow, what a horrible topic.

And as a previous post asks: Why are you leveling this at Spirit-filled churches?
Is it not common throughout all if not most denominations?

And then to ask whether it is some false spirit behind this?
And a sin to be repented of? And then accusing the church of being in it for the money?
Hit the brakes, buddy.

So, what is your position on church giving?

Presbyterian Continuist · Jul 5, 2018

Alithis said:
It is such wide spread knowledge these days that this is false teaching and YET.. it is still perpetuated by So many congregations who claim to be charismatic and led of the Spirit .. the question then is which spirit are they being led by if they teach a know false hood and have not repented of doing so .
we ARE to TEST the Spirits for NOT every spirit is OF GOD..

on the same morning meeting you will led in a song reminded you are free fom the law and 10 minutes later have the law of the tithe imposed upon you ...-double standard much?

what is behind this imposition and coercion of tithing and worse the Coercion and manipulation of coerced "giving "? well that's kind of obvious .. MONEY

Paul encouraged proportional giving, that is, giving what you can afford. This mean that some were able to give a lot, and other could give only a little. But he also said that if people give, they need to give cheerfully and not through a sense of compulsion.

When I was part of a Charismatic church in the 1970s, I knew when their funding started to diminish, because the full time worker (paid by the church!) would get up on a Sunday evening a preach on the necessity of tithing. He would do that a couple of Sundays in a row. Then time would pass until the next time the funds started to go down, and he would get up again and preach the same sermon!

I have since had close fellowship in Anglican, Baptist and Presbyterian churches and have never heard a sermon on tithing. Offerings were given as free will offerings. I was once speaking in a conference and I joked that as a Presbyterian I had to be careful when I opened my wallet so that the moth didn't fly out of it. The Charismatic pastor came up to me afterward and gave me a stern lecture about tithing being God's command to us. I felt guilty for all of five minutes!

At services in my church, there was a guy who came around with the place and he would give me a severe look when I didn't put anything into it. One morning I got sick of that so I told him that next Sunday I would put a photo of a forgery of the $50 note in the plate. He never worried me again. I have a friend who went to an RCC mass once and he came to work expressing his disgust that the plate not only came around once, but twice!!

Anto9us · Jul 5, 2018

I'm sorry Alithis, I didn't realize what sub-forum this was
And some of us Methodists ARE charismatics (me) and yes, some Methodist churches used to push tithing, though I haven't seen it lately or in the one I go to

Alithis · Jul 5, 2018

Anto9us said:
I'm sorry Alithis, I didn't realize what sub-forum this was
And some of us Methodists ARE charismatics (me) and yes, some Methodist churches used to push tithing, though I haven't seen it lately or in the one I go to

yikes , no need to apologize to me haha . you asked a question i gave an answer

Alithis · Jul 5, 2018

Saint Steven said:
Wow, what a horrible topic.

And as a previous post asks: Why are you leveling this at Spirit-filled churches?
Is it not common throughout all if not most denominations?

And then to ask whether it is some false spirit behind this?
And a sin to be repented of? And then accusing the church of being in it for the money?
Hit the brakes, buddy.

So, what is your position on church giving?

And yet .. that is exactly what they are into the teaching for .
lest base it on the facts shall we and keep it painfully honest .
with forst hand report from a very close friend who is an accountant for quite a number of congregations of differing denominations .. he has laid out to me what happens to Funds in ALL denominations .
And it is a horrible topic as you well phrase .

it is so diabolically opposite to the early congregations as depicted in the book of acts that they would accuser the modern churched of every sin they could come up with and probably some more .

Lets snap shot the book of acts

the people filed with the holy spirit and love and gratitude , began to sell all they had and bring the money to the apostles ( they had faith God would prove their needs as they sought FIRST HIS kingdom and HIs righteousness) they did not ALL do this but many did . they were not TOLD TO nor taught to .it was spontaneous acts of love and trust in GOD.

then we see what the apostles did with it
1 - give it to the fatherless and the widow
2 - share it oput to the poor among them
3 give oit to the worker in the gospel as they went out to heal the sick and preach the gospel (the missionary if you like )
4 - share it out equally to the needs of ALL the congregation
(They built NO BUILDINGS they meet daily from house to house )
5 - repeat

EVIL contrast in a modern church
1 - pay the bank
2- pay the pastor/leaders
3 - (where applicable ) send tax to the denominational headquarter.
4- pay the building costs and utilities and morning tea costs
5 give 2% to the missionaries
6 - give the widow and fatherless and poor .... umm sorry theres none left .

now that may sound cynical ..

but NO ..its actually financial FACT -
then the liars tell you ..if you dont tithe YOU are robbing GOD .. then they take your coerced money md they ROB the fatherless and the widow and the poor and say they are doing the work of Christ?
they LIE . its just the " horrible facts "

Alithis · Jul 5, 2018

Saint Steven said:
Wow, what a horrible topic.

And as a previous post asks: Why are you leveling this at Spirit-filled churches?
Is it not common throughout all if not most denominations?

And then to ask whether it is some false spirit behind this?
And a sin to be repented of? And then accusing the church of being in it for the money?
Hit the brakes, buddy.

So, what is your position on church giving?

sorry i forgot to address you final question ...

-So, what is your position on church giving?-
firstly we ARE to give . just as the Jesus in scripture says
WHEN you pray
WHEN you give
WHEN you fast
not IF but WHEN .

but we are not commanded to GIVE to THE organisation that meets on a sunday or saturday to fund their costs that they incurred telling us god told them to go to the world cap in hand to borrow money from them and being the borrower become servant to the lender ..proving it was NOT god who told them to do that.

the church , the ecclesia .. "the ones called out of this world who gather to Jesus " is the body of Christ and we certainly give to the needs of one another out of compassion and love and we do so generously . not by rule of percentage . NO far more then that we give as we are led of the holy Spirit to do so . not as we are coerced by MAN with clever sermons promising a prosperity in return for investment that almost never comes for any one except the leaders and pastors .

what good is offering money to the church building for the back to consume most of it . better that i ask GOD to whom he wants me to give it and give it to them .. better i go and heal the sick and preach the gospel and when i see the family i'm sharing the gospel too has nothing in their cupboard i use the money and buy them groceries and give it to them ...

the bank isn't hungry or seeking salvation.
my position on giving summarised is this -
I have been redeemed by the blood of Jesus .. he has purchased my life .all i am and all i have is HIS already . so what he tells me to do with HIS stuff .. I do

the church is HIS body .. every one in whom the hly Spirit dwells .it is NOT a building or a place or an organisation.-it never was it never will be . that is a body with an entirely different HEAD whose name is NOT JESUS

that is my position on giving

Presbyterian Continuist · Jul 5, 2018

Alithis said:
And yet .. that is exactly what they are into the teaching for .
lest base it on the facts shall we and keep it painfully honest .
with forst hand report from a very close friend who is an accountant for quite a number of congregations of differing denominations .. he has laid out to me what happens to Funds in ALL denominations .
And it is a horrible topic as you well phrase .

it is so diabolically opposite to the early congregations as depicted in the book of acts that they would accuser the modern churched of every sin they could come up with and probably some more .

Lets snap shot the book of acts

the people filed with the holy spirit and love and gratitude , began to sell all they had and bring the money to the apostles ( they had faith God would prove their needs as they sought FIRST HIS kingdom and HIs righteousness) they did not ALL do this but many did . they were not TOLD TO nor taught to .it was spontaneous acts of love and trust in GOD.

then we see what the apostles did with it
1 - give it to the fatherless and the widow
2 - share it oput to the poor among them
3 give oit to the worker in the gospel as they went out to heal the sick and preach the gospel (the missionary if you like )
4 - share it out equally to the needs of ALL the congregation
(They built NO BUILDINGS they meet daily from house to house )
5 - repeat

EVIL contrast in a modern church
1 - pay the bank
2- pay the pastor/leaders
3 - (where applicable ) send tax to the denominational headquarter.
4- pay the building costs and utilities and morning tea costs
5 give 2% to the missionaries
6 - give the widow and fatherless and poor .... umm sorry theres none left .

now that may sound cynical .. but NO ..its actually financial FACT -
then the liars tell you ..if you dont tithe YOU are robbing GOD .. then they take your coerced money md they ROB the fatherless and the widow and the poor and say they are doing the work of Christ?
they LIE . its just the " horrible facts "

Yep. According to Francis Schaeffer in 1982, the evangelical church has lost its way concerning what they do with their finances. They see it important to give to missions, but where they have needy and struggling folk in their own congregations, they don't do anything to support them financially.

Episaw · Jul 5, 2018

Alithis said:
It is such wide spread knowledge these days that this is false teaching and YET.. it is still perpetuated by So many congregations who claim to be charismatic and led of the Spirit .. the question then is which spirit are they being led by if they teach a know false hood and have not repented of doing so .
we ARE to TEST the Spirits for NOT every spirit is OF GOD..

on the same morning meeting you will led in a song reminded you are free fom the law and 10 minutes later have the law of the tithe imposed upon you ...-double standard much?

what is behind this imposition and coercion of tithing and worse the Coercion and manipulation of coerced "giving "? well that's kind of obvious .. MONEY

Having studied church history in depth, I have found that the charismatics/Pentecostals are as much into law as any other church. In fact, some of them are into more law bondage than some churches who are not Pentecostal.

I was a founding member of our local AOG church and all was going well until the pastor presented us all with a list of doctrines that we had to sign up to. I read through it and came across one doctrine that I was still not sure of because I had not fully grasped the significance of it. I wasn't saying it was wrong. I was saying I was still working through it so I could not honestly sign it. it wasn't anything that would compromise my salvation.

Rather than reward me for my honesty, The controlling church told the pastor that I had to be removed from all ministry and not be allowed to do anything, not even saying hello to people as they came in.

However, this same church never took the Pastor to task for saying that God told him that he was going to double the congregation every year. Ten years later when the congregation would have been 46,000 according to the prophecy, it is about 40 people.

I wrote a paper for a Ph.D. on church history and spoke to some denominational leaders and pointed out some things they did which are not in scripture. Their reply was the same every time. Yes but....In other words, denominational beliefs supercede the scriptures, one of which is tithing.

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 5, 2018

"All the churches" did someone say .... ? Still all affected by the loss?

Well, what was the first thing known of and reported after the first century
that was changed (lost) from the normal daily life of Ekklesia Assemblies ?

Many other things were lost, of course, but the first thing that was lost I have not ever heard a sermon on specifically, ever, out of hundreds or thousands of different churches in all or any denomination or non-denomination or independent ...

Alithis · Jul 5, 2018

Episaw said:
Having studied church history in depth, I have found that the charismatics/Pentecostals are as much into law as any other church. In fact, some of them are into more law bondage than some churches who are not Pentecostal.

I was a founding member of our local AOG church and all was going well until the pastor presented us all with a list of doctrines that we had to sign up to. I read through it and came across one doctrine that I was still not sure of because I had not fully grasped the significance of it. I wasn't saying it was wrong. I was saying I was still working through it so I could not honestly sign it. it wasn't anything that would compromise my salvation.

Rather than reward me for my honesty, The controlling church told the pastor that I had to be removed from all ministry and not be allowed to do anything, not even saying hello to people as they came in.

However, this same church never took the Pastor to task for saying that God told him that he was going to double the congregation every year. Ten years later when the congregation would have been 46,000 according to the prophecy, it is about 40 people.

I wrote a paper for a Ph.D. on church history and spoke to some denominational leaders and pointed out some things they did which are not in scripture. Their reply was the same every time. Yes but....In other words, denominational beliefs supercede the scriptures, one of which is tithing.

:*( a little leven ........ it corrupts the WHOLE . the hard truth is not only can we not "sign up" we cant continue in fellowship once we are aware that we are being lied to . and they are not repenting . its that whole light verses dark thing one cannot fellowship with the other ..is the LITTLE LEVEN corrupts the whole then we are trying to fellowship with an entire corruption ... when we try to we are Compromised and have ourselves become corrupted .

dayhiker · Jul 10, 2018

I agree that the NT church isn't under the obligation to tithe.
I personally find the language used above too strong to condemn those who do teach tithing. Tho I can certainly understand a view that they aren't living by faith and are under the law.
I also think we have to be careful about taking some of the specifics about how the Jerusalem church sold property and gave the money to the poor as an example that is almost a command for us today. After all they had the words of Jesus that the temple would be destroyed and if so surely all property in Jerusalem ... and therefore become worthless. So much better to sell before the value of property went almost to zero. We aren't told that this happened in the other churches mentioned in the NT. Even so it appears they sold too soon and became poor as Paul is collecting money from the Gentile churches to help the poor Chrisitans in Jerusalem.

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 10, 2018

The Ekklesia enjoyed what can best be understood and labeled for now as "voluntary poverty". There are very very few teachers or teachings available. (Perhaps seek, and ye shall find?)

The value of the property was not at all important.
They shared all things in common, basically,
and specifically called nothing their own - not only possessions, but their bodies, minds, hands, feet , lives, family,
everything they correctly recognized as
YAHWEH'S , not their own,

and they shared/ gave as needed spontaneously, without a "rule" to do so (although it is commanded in OT TORAH and NT) .....

They did not sell too soon and become poor - no.

They became poor for the Gospel's sake, the rich rejoicing in salvation and being brought down,
the poor being lifted up,
and not one had a need.

This is almost unknown today, to find any disciples laying down their lives for one another as the Ekklesia did in the NT,
it is almost unknown today,
to find Ekklesia walking/abiding DAILY in UNION WITH JESUS as one (echad) with Him, continually praising His Name and serving Him.

The tithe? No. The Ekklesia gave everything to start ! and continued doing so as they abide in Jesus, Living as Jesus Says.
QUOTE="dayhiker, post: 72923416, member: 162640"]I agree that the NT church isn't under the obligation to tithe.
I personally find the language used above too strong to condemn those who do teach tithing. Tho I can certainly understand a view that they aren't living by faith and are under the law.
I also think we have to be careful about taking some of the specifics about how the Jerusalem church sold property and gave the money to the poor as an example that is almost a command for us today. After all they had the words of Jesus that the temple would be destroyed and if so surely all property in Jerusalem ... and therefore become worthless. So much better to sell before the value of property went almost to zero. We aren't told that this happened in the other churches mentioned in the NT. Even so it appears they sold too soon and became poor as Paul is collecting money from the Gentile churches to help the poor Chrisitans in Jerusalem.[/QUOTE

hislegacy · Jul 13, 2018

Tithing predicated the law.

It began as an act of worship. It should to this day still be an act of worship.

Just because man got involved and complicated and regulated it, doesn’t change the fact it is an act of worship.

Episaw · Jul 15, 2018

hislegacy said:
It began as an act of worship. It should to this day still be an act of worship.

Whilst the New Testament has plenty to say about money, not once does it mention tithing. I wonder why?

hislegacy · Jul 15, 2018

Episaw said:
Whilst the New Testament has plenty to say about money, not once does it mention tithing. I wonder why?

Hebrews 7:7 Now beyond all contradiction the lesser is blessed by the better. 8 Here mortal men receive tithes, but there he receives them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives.

Notice the writer speaks in the present tenses.

You were saying?

Episaw · Jul 15, 2018

hislegacy said:
Hebrews 7:7 Now beyond all contradiction the lesser is blessed by the better. 8 Here mortal men receive tithes, but there he receives them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives.

Notice the writer speaks in the present tenses.

You were saying?

Can't find one reference to tithing in the church in that passage.

hislegacy · Jul 16, 2018

Episaw said:
Can't find one reference to tithing in the church in that passage.

Who is the letter addressing?

Discussion Why The So called Spirit filled churches perpetuate the LIE of the LAW of the TITHE

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