Eschatological and Millennial Theories and their problems.

Christambassador1968

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Why did all the Christians get out of Jerusalem when they saw it?

Acts 1-12 = learning of Apostle Peter (his work was with the Jews)
Acts 13-28 = we learn about Saul/Paul (Apostle to the gentiles, Goyim or NT greek word ethnos)

* Note: Let's not get into arguing. We are about truth. NOT OPINIONS! let's agree to keep opinions out and keep to the facts. This was one of the problems of the early church.
 
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BABerean2

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Acts 1-12 = learning of Apostle Peter (his work was with the Jews)
Acts 13-28 = we learn about Saul/Paul (Apostle to the gentiles, Goyim or NT greek word ethnos)

* Note: Let's not get into arguing. We are about truth. NOT OPINIONS! let's agree to keep opinions out and keep to the facts. This was one of the problems of the early church.

There was some overlap of the ministries above.
Peter did go to the house of Cornelius, and Paul did preach Christ to the Jews in some of the synagogues after his conversion.

However, there was a time when Paul was sent mainly to the Gentiles, based on Galatians 1:14-18.
.
 
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jgr

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If this happened in AD 70, why didn't any Christian writer in the next 200 years (whose writings have survived to the present time) realize it.

Clement of Alexandria (150 - 215 AD)

From the captivity at Babylon, which took place in the time of Jeremiah the prophet, was fulfilled what was spoken by Daniel the prophet as follows: "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people, and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to seal sins, and to wipe out and make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal the vision and the prophet, and to anoint the Holy of Holies. Know therefore, and understand, that from the going forth of the word commanding an answer to be given, and Jerusalem to be built, to Christ the Prince, are seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; and the street shall be again built, and the wall; and the times shall be expended. And after the sixty-two weeks the anointing shall be overthrown, and judgment shall not be in him; and he shall destroy the city and the sanctuary along with the coming Prince. And they shall be destroyed in a flood, and to the end of the war shall be cut off by: desolations. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week; and in the middle of the week the sacrifice and oblation shall be taken away; and in the holy place shall be the abomination of desolations, and until the consummation of time shall the consummation be assigned for desolation. And in the midst of the week shall he make the incense of sacrifice cease, and of the wing of destruction, even till the consummation, like the destruction of the oblation." That the temple accordingly was built in seven weeks, is evident; for it is written in Esdras. And thus Christ became King of the Jews, reigning in Jerusalem in the fulfilment of the seven weeks. And in the sixty and two weeks the whole of Judaea was quiet, and without wars. And Christ our Lord, "the Holy of Holies," having come and fulfilled the vision and the prophecy, was anointed in His flesh by the Holy Spirit of His Father.

In those "sixty and two weeks," as the prophet said, and "in the one week," was He Lord. The half of the week Nero held sway, and in the holy city Jerusalem placed the abomination; and in the half of the week he was taken away, and Otho, and Galba, and Vitellius. And Vespasian rose to the supreme power, and destroyed Jerusalem, and desolated the holy place. And that such are the facts of the case, is clear to him that is able to understand, as the prophet said.

The Stromata, or Miscellanies
Book I Chapter XXI
 
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jgr

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The Christians did not get out of Jerusalem in A. D. 70, but several years earlier, when they first saw Jerusalem surrounded by armies. After a short time the armies withdrew and then the Christians left. Several years later, in A.D. 70, the armies returned. This is when the abomination of desolation is alleged to have taken place. But by then it was too late to get out, so the sudden flight advised by Jesus was by then impossible. Everyone still there at that time was either killed or sold into slavery.
Luke elucidated the abomination of desolation. It was Jerusalem, the holy city, compassed with the abomination of the pagan Roman armies. As you correctly observe, it was the trigger signal for the Christians to flee.

It was not a presence in the temple.

Luke 21
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
 
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Biblewriter

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Clement of Alexandria (150 - 215 AD)

From the captivity at Babylon, which took place in the time of Jeremiah the prophet, was fulfilled what was spoken by Daniel the prophet as follows: "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people, and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to seal sins, and to wipe out and make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal the vision and the prophet, and to anoint the Holy of Holies. Know therefore, and understand, that from the going forth of the word commanding an answer to be given, and Jerusalem to be built, to Christ the Prince, are seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; and the street shall be again built, and the wall; and the times shall be expended. And after the sixty-two weeks the anointing shall be overthrown, and judgment shall not be in him; and he shall destroy the city and the sanctuary along with the coming Prince. And they shall be destroyed in a flood, and to the end of the war shall be cut off by: desolations. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week; and in the middle of the week the sacrifice and oblation shall be taken away; and in the holy place shall be the abomination of desolations, and until the consummation of time shall the consummation be assigned for desolation. And in the midst of the week shall he make the incense of sacrifice cease, and of the wing of destruction, even till the consummation, like the destruction of the oblation." That the temple accordingly was l built in seven weeks, is evident; for it is written in Esdras. And thus Christ became King of the Jews, reigning in Jerusalem in the fulfilment of the seven weeks. And in the sixty and two weeks the whole of Judaea was quiet, and without wars. And Christ our Lord, "the Holy of Holies," having come and fulfilled the vision and the prophecy, was anointed in His flesh by the Holy Spirit of His Father.

In those "sixty and two weeks," as the prophet said, and "in the one week," was He Lord. The half of the week Nero held sway, and in the holy city Jerusalem placed the abomination; and in the half of the week he was taken away, and Otho, and Galba, and Vitellius. And Vespasian rose to the supreme power, and destroyed Jerusalem, and desolated the holy place. And that such are the facts of the case, is clear to him that is able to understand, as the prophet said.

The Stromata, or Miscellanies
Book I Chapter XXI
This does not even mention the abomination of desolation.
 
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Biblewriter

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Luke elucidated the abomination of desolation. It was Jerusalem, the holy city, compassed with the abomination of the pagan Roman armies. As you correctly observe, it was the trigger signal for the Christians to flee.

It was not a presence in the temple.

Luke 21
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Luke spoke of the desolation of Jerusalem, but did not even mention the “abomination of desolation.” So the first part of your answer is completely incorrect. And the signal for flight mentioned in Matthew was to be the “abomination of desolation” standing “in the holy place.” So the rest of your answer is just as wrong as the first part.

This is simply typical of the standard distortion of the Preterists.
 
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jgr

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Luke spoke of the desolation of Jerusalem, but did not even mention the “abomination of desolation.” So the first part of your answer is completely incorrect. And the signal for flight mentioned in Matthew was to be the “abomination of desolation” standing “in the holy place.” So the rest of your answer is just as wrong as the first part.

This is simply typical of the standard distortion of the Preterists.

You predictably err.

Matthew 24
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Luke 21
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

Luke 21:20 is the counterpart parallel verse to Matthew 24:15.
 
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Biblewriter

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You predictably err.

Matthew 24
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Luke 21
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

Luke 21:20 is the counterpart parallel verse to Matthew 24:15.
You quoted the relevant passages, which say EXACTLY what I said they said. You try to twist them, but it does not work.
 
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jgr

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You quoted the relevant passages, which say EXACTLY what I said they said. You try to twist them, but it does not work.
How about that. They say EXACTLY what I said they said as well.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Biblewriter said:
The Christians did not get out of Jerusalem in A. D. 70, but several years earlier, when they first saw Jerusalem surrounded by armies. After a short time the armies withdrew and then the Christians left. Several years later, in A.D. 70, the armies returned. This is when the abomination of desolation is alleged to have taken place. But by then it was too late to get out, so the sudden flight advised by Jesus was by then impossible. Everyone still there at that time was either killed or sold into slavery.

........
It was not a presence in the temple.
Luke 21
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Please take some time to read first.

"...and in the holy place shall be the abomination of desolations..."
Actually the greek says "in a place, holy one".
The Sanctuary/Tabernacle contained the Holy Place and the Most Holy Place and was within the Temple, which was probably also considered holy.
I had read that Jerusalem was built on a mountain, and whether or not Ezekiel is mentioning all areas around the mountain or not, I am not sure.
This is interesting and I may create a thread on it....

Ezekiel 43:
12 This [is] a law of the house: on the top of the mountain, all its border all round about [is] most holy;
lo, this [is] a law of the house
.

http://www.bu.edu/mzank/Jerusalem/tx/Basola.htm

Jerusalem is on one mountain; across from it is the Mount of Olives, and there is a narrow valley between them, the Valley of Jehoshaphat. I went down into it, and at one end there is a large hole which looks like a kind of cave. They say that the mouth of Gehenna is there for the time to come, when Gog comes.
Below this there are graves of Jews on the whole slope of the mountain, and a few on the incline of the mountain of Jerusalem. Half a mile below them are the waters of Siloam, and on the plain there are many beautiful gardens watered...................

Did Titus actually encompass just outsidethe walls of Jerusalem, or across from the other side of the valley?

http://www.bible.ca/pre-destruction70AD-george-holford-1805AD.htm

Jerusalem was built on two mountains. Three celebrated walls surrounded the city on every side, except that which was deemed inaccessible, and there it was defended by one wall only.
The most ancient of these walls was remarkable for its great strength, and was, moreover, erected on a hanging rock, and fortified by sixty towers. on the middle wall there were fourteen towers only ; but on the third, which was also distinguished by the extraordinary merit of its architecture, there were no less than ninety.

The consternation and terror which now prevailed induced many inhabitants to desire that a foreign foe might come, and effect their deliverance. Such was the horrible condition of the place when Titus and his army presented themselves, and encamped before Jerusalem ; but, alas ! not to deliver it from its miseries but to fulfill the prediction, and vindicate the benevolent warning of our Lord : "When ye see (he had said to his disciples) the abomination of desolation, spoken or by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place, [11] and Jerusalem surrounded by armies (or camps,) then let those who are in the midst of Jerusalem depart, and let not those who are in the country enter into her," for " then know that the desolation thereof is nigh." Matt. xxiv. 15, 21 ; Luke xxi. 20, 1-11...................

https://www.christianforums.com/thr...el-matt-and-mark-shown-in-revelation.8072089/
Where is the abomination of desolation of Daniel, Matt and Mark shown in Revelation






 
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BABerean2

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Actually the greek says "in a place, holy one".
The Sanctuary/Tabernacle contained the Holy Place and the Most Holy Place and was within the Temple, which was probably also considered holy.
I had read the Jerusalem was built on a mountain, and whether or not Ezekiel is mentioning all areas around the mountain or not, I am not sure.
This is interesting and I may create a thread on it....

Ezekiel 43:
12 This [is] a law of the house: on the top of the mountain, all its border all round about [is] most holy;
lo, this [is] a law of the house
.

http://www.bu.edu/mzank/Jerusalem/tx/Basola.htm

Jerusalem is on one mountain; across from it is the Mount of Olives, and there is a narrow valley between them, the Valley of Jehoshaphat. I went down into it, and at one end there is a large hole which looks like a kind of cave. They say that the mouth of Gehenna is there for the time to come, when Gog comes.
Below this there are graves of Jews on the whole slope of the mountain, and a few on the incline of the mountain of Jerusalem. Half a mile below them are the waters of Siloam, and on the plain there are many beautiful gardens watered by those waters. It goes out from the mountain of Jerusalem, and no one knows from where it flows. On the visible end, there is a building which was once beautiful, with domes. They say that Solomon, may he rest in peace, minted coins there.....................

Did Titus actually encompass just outsidethe walls of Jerusalem, or across from the other side of the valley?

http://www.bible.ca/pre-destruction70AD-george-holford-1805AD.htm

Jerusalem was built on two mountains. Three celebrated walls surrounded the city on every side, except that which was deemed inaccessible, and there it was defended by one wall only.
he most ancient of these walls was remarkable for its great strength, and was, moreover, erected on a hanging rock, and fortified by sixty towers. on the middle wall there were fourteen towers only ; but on the third, which was also distinguished by the extraordinary merit of its architecture, there were no less than ninety.

The consternation and terror which now prevailed induced many inhabitants to desire that a foreign foe might come, and effect their deliverance. Such was the horrible condition of the place when Titus and his army presented themselves, and encamped before Jerusalem ; but, alas ! not to deliver it from its miseries but to fulfill the prediction, and vindicate the benevolent warning of our Lord : "When ye see (he had said to his disciples) the abomination of desolation, spoken or by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place, [11] and Jerusalem surrounded by armies (or camps,) then let those who are in the midst of Jerusalem depart, and let not those who are in the country enter into her," for " then know that the desolation thereof is nigh." Matt. xxiv. 15, 21 ; Luke xxi. 20, 1-11...................

https://www.christianforums.com/thr...el-matt-and-mark-shown-in-revelation.8072089/
Where is the abomination of desolation of Daniel, Matt and Mark shown in Revelation







From "Antiquities of the Jews" by Josephus, Book 12, chapter 7

"6. When therefore the generals of Antiochus's armies had been beaten so often, Judas assembled the people together, and told them, that after these many victories which God had given them, they ought to go up to Jerusalem, and purify the temple, and offer the appointed sacrifices. But as soon as he, with the whole multitude, was come to Jerusalem, and found the temple deserted, and its gates burnt down, and plants growing in the temple of their own accord, on account of its desertion, he and those that were with him began to lament, and were quite confounded at the sight of the temple; so he chose out some of his soldiers, and gave them order to fight against those guards that were in the citadel, until he should have purified the temple. When therefore he had carefully purged it, and had brought in new vessels, the candlestick, the table [of shew-bread], and the altar [of incense], which were made of gold, he hung up the veils at the gates, and added doors to them. He also took down the altar [of burnt-offering], and built a new one of stones that he gathered together, and not of such as were hewn with iron tools. So on the five and twentieth day of the month Casleu, which the Macedonians call Apeliens, they lighted the lamps that were on the candlestick, and offered incense upon the altar [of incense], and laid the loaves upon the table [of shew-bread], and offered burnt-offerings upon the new altar [of burnt-offering]. Now it so fell out, that these things were done on the very same day on which their Divine worship had fallen off, and was reduced to a profane and common use, after three years' time; for so it was, that the temple was made desolate by Antiochus, and so continued for three years. This desolation happened to the temple in the hundred forty and fifth year, on the twenty-fifth day of the month Apeliens, and on the hundred fifty and third olympiad: but it was dedicated anew, on the same day, the twenty-fifth of the month Apeliens, on the hundred and forty-eighth year, and on the hundred and fifty-fourth olympiad. And this desolation came to pass according to the prophecy of Daniel, which was given four hundred and eight years before; for he declared that the Macedonians would dissolve that worship [for some time].

7. Now Judas celebrated the festival of the restoration of the sacrifices of the temple for eight days, and omitted no sort of pleasures thereon; but he feasted them upon very rich and splendid sacrifices; and he honored God, and delighted them by hymns and psalms. Nay, they were so very glad at the revival of their customs, when, after a long time of intermission, they unexpectedly had regained the freedom of their worship, that they made it a law for their posterity, that they should keep a festival, on account of the restoration of their temple worship, for eight days. And from that time to this we celebrate this festival, and call it Lights. I suppose the reason was, because this liberty beyond our hopes appeared to us; and that thence was the name given to that festival. Judas also rebuilt the walls round about the city, and reared towers of great height against the incursions of enemies, and set guards therein. He also fortified the city Bethsura, that it might serve as a citadel against any distresses that might come from our enemies. "


Josephus confirms above the understanding of the Jews of his time, who knew that Daniel had predicted the events of 167 BC, by Antiochus Epiphanes.
Josephus confirms it as a historical fact.


John 10:22 is a reference to the celebration of Hanukkah each year by the Jews of Jesus time.


The Book of Matthew was addressed mainly to a Jewish audience. Jesus was telling the Jews of His time that something similar to 167 BC would happen during 70 AD. Not only did Antiochus desecrate the temple, but he also attacked the city killing thousands of Jews and stopped the temple sacrifices. The temple sacrifices would also stop in 70 AD, due to the destruction of the temple. Based on John 10:22, the Jews were well aware of this historical fulfillment of Daniel’s prophecy. Luke’s Gospel was written to more of a Gentile audience, so he spelled it out for them.


Matthew 24:15-16 and Luke 21:20-21 are clearly parallel accounts, because we have the exact same warning to flee from Judea to the mountains in the second verse of each Gospel.


.
 
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Douggg

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Matthew 24:15-16 and Luke 21:20-21 are clearly parallel accounts, because we have the exact same warning to flee from Judea to the mountains in the second verse of each Gospel.
Same warning to flee to the mountains, yes.

Luke 21:20-21 was a warning of what to do when the Romans came, back in the first century, right? That's the essence of what you been saying.

Matthew 24:15-16, on the other hand, is different because it is the warning of what do when after the long period of Luke 21:23 is finished, and Matthew 24:14 is finished. And the world , not just Jerusalem, enters the great tribulation.

Luke 21:24-25 is the same as in Matthew 24:29-30.
 
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Douggg

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Luke 21:20 is the counterpart parallel verse to Matthew 24:15.
jgr, Luke 21:20 is historically a fact now. It involved Jerusalem.

Matthew 24:15 is different because it triggers the great tribulation which comes on the whole world - not just Jerusalem.
 
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jgr

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jgr, Luke 21:20 is historically a fact now. It involved Jerusalem.

Matthew 24:15 is different because it triggers the great tribulation which comes on the whole world - not just Jerusalem.
Douggg, how can Matthew 24:15 and Luke 21:20 be different, when Matthew 24:16 and Luke 21:21 are the same?
 
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Douggg

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Douggg, how can Matthew 24:15 and Luke 21:20 be different, when Matthew 24:16 and Luke 21:21 are the same?
Think about, jgr, what options do they have for the situation? Even spread 2000 years apart.

Luke 21:20-21 is a prophecy - fulfilled, involving Jerusalem, but not the whole world.

Matthew 24:15-16 is a prophecy - involving Jersualem, and also the whole world.
 
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jgr

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Think about, jgr, what options do they have for the situation? Even spread 2000 years apart.

Luke 21:20-21 is a prophecy - fulfilled, involving Jerusalem, but not the whole world.

Matthew 24:15-16 is a prophecy - involving Jersualem, and also the whole world.

None of the following brethren futurized the associated Matthew 24 verses, nor claimed that Luke spoke of a different event.

190AD Clement of Alexandria

(On Matthew 24:15, The Abomination of Desolation) "We have still to add to our chronology the following, -- I mean the days which Daniel indicates from the desolation of Jerusalem, the seven years and seven months of the reign of Vespasian. For the two years are added to the seventeen months and eighteen days of Otho, and Galba, and Vitellius; and the result is three years and six months, which is "the half of the week," as Daniel the prophet said. For he said that there were two thousand three hundred days from the time that the abomination of Nero stood in the holy city, till its destruction. For thus the declaration, which is subjoined, shows: "How long shall be the vision, the sacrifice taken away, the abomination of desolation, which is given, and the power and the holy place shall be trodden under foot? And he said to him, Till the evening and morning, two thousand three hundred days, and the holy place shall be taken away."


325AD Eusebius Pamphilius

Ecclesiastical History: (On Matthew 24:15) "--all these things, as well as the many great sieges which were carried on against the cities of Judea, and the excessive. sufferings endured by those that fled to Jerusalem itself, as to a city of perfect safety, and finally the general course of the whole war, as well as its particular occurrences in detail, and how at last the abomination of desolation, proclaimed by the prophets, stood in the very temple of God, so celebrated of old, the temple which was now awaiting its total and final destruction by fire,-- all these things any one that wishes may find accurately described in the history written by Josephus." (Book III, Ch. 5)


375AD John Chrysostom

Homily St. Matthew: (On Matthew 24:15) "And see how He relates the war, by the things that seem to be small setting forth how intolerable it was to be. For, "Then,"saith He, "let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains." Then, When? When these things should be, "when the abomination of desolation should stand in the holy place." Whence He seems to me to be speaking of the armies." (Homily 76, Number 1)


John Calvin

Matthew 24:15
When you shall see the abomination of desolation. Because the destruction of the temple and city of Jerusalem, together with the overthrow of the whole Jewish government, was (as we have already said) a thing incredible, and because it might be thought strange, that the disciples could not be saved without being torn from that nation, to which had been committed the adoption and the covenant(Romans 9:4) of eternal salvation, Christ confirms both by the testimony of Daniel As if he had said, That you may not be too strongly attached to the temple and to the ceremonies of the Law, God has limited them to a fixed time, 136 and has long ago declared, that when the Redeemer should come, sacrifices would cease; and that it may not give you uneasiness to be cut off from your own nation, God has also forewarned his people, that in due time it would be rejected.


Adam Clarke

Matthew 24:15
The abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel - This abomination of desolation, St. Luke, (Luk 21:20, Luk 21:21), refers to the Roman army; and this abomination standing in the holy place is the Roman army besieging Jerusalem; this, our Lord says, is what was spoken of by Daniel the prophet, in the ninth and eleventh chapters of his prophecy; and so let every one who reads these prophecies understand them; and in reference to this very event they are understood by the rabbins. The Roman army is called an abomination, for its ensigns and images, which were so to the Jews. Josephus says, (War, b. vi. chap. 6), the Romans brought their ensigns into the temple, and placed them over against the eastern gate, and sacrificed to them there. The Roman army is therefore fitly called the abomination, and the abomination which maketh desolate, as it was to desolate and lay waste Jerusalem; and this army besieging Jerusalem is called by St. Mark, Mar 13:14, standing where it ought not, that is, as in the text here, the holy place; as not only the city, but a considerable compass of ground about it, was deemed holy, and consequently no profane persons should stand on it.

Matthew 24:16
Then let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains - This counsel was remembered and wisely followed by the Christians afterwards. Eusebius and Epiphanius say, that at this juncture, after Cestius Gallus had raised the siege, and Vespasian was approaching with his army, all who believed in Christ left Jerusalem and fled to Pella, and other places beyond the river Jordan; and so they all marvellously escaped the general shipwreck of their country: not one of them perished. See on Mat 24:13 (note).


Matthew Henry

Matthew 24:15
Here he comes more closely to answer their questions concerning the desolation of the temple; and what he said here, would be of use to his disciples, both for their conduct and for their comfort, in reference to that great event; he describes the several steps of that calamity, such as are usual in war.1. The Romans setting up the abomination of desolation in the holy place, v. 15. Now, (1.) Some understand by this an image, or statue, set up in the temple by some of the Roman governors, which was very offensive to the Jews, provoked them to rebel, and so brought the desolation upon them. The image of Jupiter Olympius, which Antiochus caused to be set upon the altar of God, is called Bdelygma eremoseos —The abomination of desolation, the very word here used by the historian, 1 Mac. 1:54 . Since the captivity in Babylon, nothing was, nor could be, more distasteful to the Jews than an image in the holy place, as appeared by the mighty opposition they made when Caligula offered to set up his statue there, which had been of fatal consequence, if it had not been prevented, and the matter accommodated, by the conduct of Petronius; but Herod did set up an eagle over the temple-gate; and, some say, the statue of Titus was set up in the temple. (2.) Others choose to expound it by the parallel place (Lu. 21:20 ),when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies. Jerusalem was the holy city, Canaan the holy land, the Mount Moriah, which lay about Jerusalem, for its nearness to the temple was, they thought in a particular manner holy ground; on the country lying round about Jerusalem the Roman army was encamped, that was the abomination that made desolate. The land of an enemy is said to be the land which thou abhorrest (Isa. 7:16 ); so an enemy’s army to a weak but wilful people may well be called the abomination.Now this is said to be spoken of by Daniel, the prophet, who spoke more plainly of the Messiah and his kingdom than any of the Old-Testament prophets did. He speaks of an abomination making desolate, which should be set up by Antiochus (Dan. 11:31Dan. 12:11 ); but this that our Saviour refers to, we have in the message that the angel brought him (Dan. 9:27 ), of what should come at the end of seventy weeks, long after the former; for the overspreading of abominations, or, as the margin reads it, with the abominable armies (which comes home to the prophecy here), he shall make it desolate.


John Wesley

Matthew 24:15-16
24:15
When ye see the abomination of desolation - Daniel's term is, The abomination that maketh desolate, Daniel 11:31 ; that is, the standards of the desolating legions, onwhich they bear the abominable images of their idols: Standing in the holy place - Not only the temple and the mountain on which it stood, but the whole city of Jerusalem, and several furlongs of land round about it, were accounted holy; particularly the mount on which our Lord now sat, and on which the Romans afterward planted their ensigns. He that readeth let him understand - Whoever reads that prophecy of Daniel, let him deeply consider it. 13:14 ; Luke 21:20; Dan 9:27.

24:16
Then let them who are in Judea flee to the mountains - So the Christians did, and were preserved. It is remarkable that after the Romans under Cestus Gallus made their first advances toward Jerusalem, they suddenly withdrew again, in a most unexpected and indeed impolitic manner. This the Christians took as a signal to retire, which they did, some to Pella, and others to Mount Libanus.


Charles Spurgeon

Matthew 24:15-18
This portion of our Savior’s words appears to relate solely to the destruction of Jerusalem. As soon as Christ’s disciples saw “the abomination of desolation,” that is, the Roman ensigns with their idolatrous emblems, “stand in the holy place,” they knew that the time for them to escape had arrived—and they did “flee into the mountains.” The Christians in Jerusalem and the surrounding towns and villages “in Judaea,” availed themselves of the first opportunity for eluding the Roman armies, and fled to the mountain city of Pella, in Perea, where they were preserved from the general destruction which overthrew the Jews. There was no time to spare before the final investment of the guilty city. The man “on the housetop” could “not come down to take anything out of his house,” and the man “in the field” could not “return back to take his clothes.” They must flee to the mountains in the greatest haste, the moment that they saw “Jerusalem compassed with armies” (Luke 21:20).
 
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Douggg

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None of the following brethren futurized the associated Matthew 24 verses, nor claimed that Luke spoke of a different event.
It may be a topic for discussion on historic commentators. But all that is irrelevant as far as what the bible says. Find one that talks about Daniel 12:4, who can prove his generation fit - many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased, as compared to the internet age.

Anyone who cannot comprehend that the abomination of desolation that Daniel the prophet spoke of in Daniel 12 is end times, has no understanding of Matthew 24.

It is EASY to see that there are two different time periods involved - right from the text.

Luke 21:20-21 is first century history Jerusalem....while, differently, Matthew 24:15-16 is end times the great tribulation involving the entire world, not just Jerusalem.
 
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Erik Nelson

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Eschatology is repetitive, with minor events prefiguring major ones. Makes it easy to "skip a track ahead or behind" and apply Scriptures about minor prefigurations to major events et vice versa

70 AD may have been the "end of an Age", similar to but not identical with (say) the "End of Earth Time" (Rev 20:11)

It could be that basically everybody here is basically (partially) correct, certainly qualitatively
 
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Dave L

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Acts 1-12 = learning of Apostle Peter (his work was with the Jews)
Acts 13-28 = we learn about Saul/Paul (Apostle to the gentiles, Goyim or NT greek word ethnos)

* Note: Let's not get into arguing. We are about truth. NOT OPINIONS! let's agree to keep opinions out and keep to the facts. This was one of the problems of the early church.
Should we let truth go, and not uphold it if it means "arguing"?
 
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