Imminent Destruction of the United States

Traveling teacher said:

SOME SAY
Revelation 12:14 14The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, ...

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Hi Traveling teacher,

I believe there is another "eagle" citation which may apply.

With Best Regards,
DaDad

TribulationSigns said:

Prove it.

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You've already discounted the J.R. Church premise, so what's there to talk about?

Thanks,
DaDad

seventysevens said:

There is NOTHING at all about the USA , just your imagination conjuring up imaginary images

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So then, do you believe Isaiah 18 is about the nation of Ethiopia? If not, then who?

DaDad said:

Please allow me to suggest that you cannot tell, and aren't interested in finding out. This attitude defies 1 Cor. 14, which tells us to "judge" the prophets, which demands that we hear the information and then make a decision. You've apparently made the decision before receiving the information.

As such 2 Peter 3:3 applies.

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I take that you cannot provide an biblical evidence for your position. The onus is on you.

keras said:

So then, do you believe Isaiah 18 about the nation of Ethiopia? If not, then who?

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Hi keras,
I am fairly familiar with the more simple prophetic books which encompass historical contexts, typical of Daniel, the Psalms, Ezekiel, & Revelation, and thus often bypass those texts which have less context. As such your citation completely surprised me.

Thank you for sharing what appears to be another reference to the United States!

With Best Regards,
DaDad

TribulationSigns said:

The onus is on you.

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No, -- you have not acceded to any rational discussion. Per your previous posts, your mind is set. Now if you wish to discuss the concept proposed by J.R. Church, per his book "Hidden Prophecies In The Psalms", I would be more than able to present and defend his simple concept. Otherwise, please feel free to retain your ignorance.

Thanks,
DaDad

DaDad said:

You've already discounted the J.R. Church premise, so what's there to talk about?

Thanks,
DaDad

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Look I know who J.R. Church. I have read his books like "Hidden Prophecies in the Psalms", "Guardians of the grail", "Hidden Prophecies in the Song of Moses" when I was in teen. However, I am interested to know what YOU believe because you claimed that America is indeed included bible prophecies so I want to challenge you to prove it biblically. Show me the verses and we will go from there.

This is a discussion forum. If you won't do what I asked, then obviously you have an agenda to sell the doctrine about America being part of the prophecy of being Mystery Babylon, etc. Based on what you said, you are clearly a follower of J.R. Church and his ministry.

TribulationSigns said:

Look I know who J.R. Church. I have read his books like "Hidden Prophecies in the Psalms", "Guardians of the grail", "Hidden Prophecies in the Song of Moses" when I was in teen. However, I am interested to know what YOU believe because you claimed that America is indeed included bible prophecies so I want to challenge you to prove it biblically. Show me the verses and we will go from there. ...

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Hi TribulationSigns,

Great.

If, as you suggest, you are familiar with the Psalms premise, then you should know that the Psalms is the 19th Book of the Bible. You should also know that this Book is prophetic to the Jews for the 1900's, Chapter for year, such that Book 19, Chapter 48 = 1948 International Recognition of the State of Israel.

So do you acknowledge the apparent Chapter 48 fulfillment? And if so, then as a sanity check, would you agree that Book 19, Chapter 91 = 1991 depicts the events of Desert Storm, including the "arrows" as SCUD Missiles which were capable of both conventional and chemical munitions ("the pestilence that stalks in darkness")?

Thanks,
DaDad

Kevin Snow said:

Trump's new policy "Make America Great Again" is the beginning of the message that this nation should turn inward and thereby reduce and stop many of our activities in the rest of the world. This is the fulfillment of this passage in scripture:

Ah, you destroyer, who yourself have not been destroyed, you traitor, whom none has betrayed! When you have ceased to destroy, you will be destroyed; and when you have finished betraying, they will betray you. ~Isaiah 33:1

Our imminent destruction is at hand. I reveal to you that we are the 7th Babylon according to the word in Revelations:

they are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come, and when he does come he must remain only a little while. ~Revelation 17:10

And we only have about 250 years of history and are certainly young in comparison to the other nations of the world. We will not remain much longer either. For New York City is the prostitute which is to be destroyed according to Revelations:

And the ten horns that you saw, they and the beast will hate the prostitute. They will make her desolate and naked, and devour her flesh and burn her up with fire ~Revelation 17:16

And so the North country as described in Daniel is this beast with ten horns and it is about to be formed.

I wrote this all and revealed this in scripture and by historical fact through a small book which I wrote. It is the word of God which I am to speak to the people so that you may be warned and may take warning and do what God requires of you. The book is free. When you have time to read it, please take the time.

https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/672850

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Absurd error and false prophecy. This is the relevant word for our era.
http://wordservice.org/Bible Basics/bb9000.htm

keras said:

People like to say that the United States of America is not mentioned in the Bible. This is wrong and Isaiah 18:1-7 cannot be about anyone else*. The disaster described in that prophecy, will happen at the Sixth Seal, a worldwide devastation caused by a massive explosion of the suns surface, that will literally fulfil all the graphic prophesies about the sudden and shocking Day of the Lord's wrath.

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Hold it now friend. Whooo slow down a bit. I believe there will be whatever cataclysms one can read about in Revelations but where do you come up with thinking you've got the event of Rev 6 all figured out right down to a declaration that it will be a massive explosion on the sun. Seems rather presumptuous to claim to know that.

I don't think that Trump's message is to turn inward. It is more that the time for America being responsible for everybody else's defense has passed.
To the extent that the world has followed America's lead in free enterprise, the world has become wealthy.

America is no longer willing to play by the same rules of everybody looking to America for special treatment that they will not reciprocate.

Kevin Snow said:

Trump's new policy "Make America Great Again" is the beginning of the message that this nation should turn inward and thereby reduce and stop many of our activities in the rest of the world. This is the fulfillment of this passage in scripture:

Ah, you destroyer, who yourself have not been destroyed, you traitor, whom none has betrayed! When you have ceased to destroy, you will be destroyed; and when you have finished betraying, they will betray you. ~Isaiah 33:1

Our imminent destruction is at hand. I reveal to you that we are the 7th Babylon according to the word in Revelations:

they are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come, and when he does come he must remain only a little while. ~Revelation 17:10

And we only have about 250 years of history and are certainly young in comparison to the other nations of the world. We will not remain much longer either. For New York City is the prostitute which is to be destroyed according to Revelations:

And the ten horns that you saw, they and the beast will hate the prostitute. They will make her desolate and naked, and devour her flesh and burn her up with fire ~Revelation 17:16

And so the North country as described in Daniel is this beast with ten horns and it is about to be formed.

I wrote this all and revealed this in scripture and by historical fact through a small book which I wrote. It is the word of God which I am to speak to the people so that you may be warned and may take warning and do what God requires of you. The book is free. When you have time to read it, please take the time.

https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/672850

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Kevin Snow,

I don't see any connection between the verse in Isaiah that you quote and the conclusion that you draw. The verse talks about a nation/country that is a "destroyer." If the US is a destroyer, you have not demonstrated this.

Kevin Snow: "Trump's new policy "Make America Great Again" is the beginning of the message that this nation should turn inward and thereby reduce and stop many of our activities in the rest of the world."

As far as I can tell, Make America Great Again is meaningless political rhetoric.

You start from the assumption that isolationism is good, that isolationism is the right policy. Yet isolationism has never been the right policy in the past. After WWI and WWII, the US finally learned the lesson that it is much better to be engaged with the world.

If we start from the assumption that we are in an end times scenario, then I could make a tentative prediction of my own. Donald Trump's hostility toward the allies of the US could seriously undermine our alliances. In a worst-case scenario, NATO could dissolve and be dismantled. Then any collusion on security between the US and Europe would be on a case-by-case basis, or there might be none. The end of NATO would probably mean the end of US military bases in Europe. Other security treaties might dissolve as well, and the US would lose its military bases around the world.

Instead of being a world leader, the US would effectively shoot itself in the head, removing itself as a defender of democracy and freedom. Chaos would inevitably follow. A chaotic world without leadership could well pave the way for the rise of the antichrist and the antichrist system.

Bobber said:

Hold it now friend. Whooo slow down a bit. I believe there will be whatever cataclysms one can read about in Revelations but where do you come up with thinking you've got the event of Rev 6 all figured out right down to a declaration that it will be a massive explosion on the sun. Seems rather presumptuous to claim to know that.

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I could quote all the 117 scriptures that prove the Lord will use a Coronal Mass Ejection on the great and terrible Day of His vengeance and wrath. It is the one thing that will literally fulfil all the graphic prophesies about that Day. Proof is in Isaiah 30:26a, Psalms 50:1-3, Malachi 4:1, Romans 1:18, 2 Peter 3:7

The will be the event that sets the scene for the establishment of a One World Govt and for the gathering of all the Lord's faithful Christian people into all of the holy Land. Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 35:1-10, Isaiah 62:1-5, Romans 9:24-26, +

As a seemingly natural disaster, the secular peoples can dismiss it as from God, carry on in their apostasy and when the Anti-Christ leader of the OWG rises to power, they will worship him. Revelation 13:11-16
From the Sixth Seal until Jesus Returns, there must be at least 10 years for all that is prophesied to happen then.
Ref: logostelos.info

keras said:

So then, do you believe Isaiah 18 is about the nation of Ethiopia? If not, then who?

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Well it be obvious it is Not the USA , but if you choose to read into it things that are not there , which you often do then you can see anything that which you choose to see

Before saying Who exactly it refers to i would look more deeply into it -- some people seem to think that just because USA is a powerful nation that it has to be in bible prophecy - but that way of thinking is not valid - it requires a way to truly pinpoint USA , since the scripture in no way does that there nothing to prevent people from inserting any country they wish to be there

2 Kings 19:9 - And when he heard say of Tirhakah king of Ethiopia, Behold, he is come out to fight against thee: he sent messengers again unto Hezekiah, saying, (Verses like 2 Kings 19:9)

Ezekiel 30:4-5 - And the sword shall come upon Egypt, and great pain shall be in Ethiopia, when the slain shall fall in Egypt, and they shall take away her multitude, and her foundations shall be broken down.Ethiopia, and Libya, and Lydia, and all the mingled people, and Chub, and the men of the land that is in league, shall fall with them by the sword. (Verses like Ezekiel 30:4)

Zephaniah 2:12 - Ye Ethiopians also, ye shall be slain by my sword. (Verses like Zephaniah 2:12)

Zephaniah 3:10 - From beyond the rivers of Ethiopia my suppliants, even the daughter of my dispersed, shall bring mine offering. (Verses like Zephaniah 3:10)

Ruth 2:12 - The LORD recompense thy work, and a full reward be given thee of the LORD God of Israel, under whose wings thou art come to trust. (Verses like Ruth 2:12)

Psalms 17:8 - Keep me as the apple of the eye, hide me under the shadow of thy wings, (Verses like Psalms 17:8)

Psalms 36:7 - How excellent is thy lovingkindness, O God! therefore the children of men put their trust under the shadow of thy wings. (Verses like Psalms 36:7)

Psalms 57:1 - (To the chief Musician, Altaschith, Michtam of David, when he fled from Saul in the cave.) Be merciful unto me, O God, be merciful unto me: for my soul trusteth in thee: yea, in the shadow of thy wings will I make my refuge, until these calamities be overpast. (Verses like Psalms 57:1)

Psalms 61:4 - I will abide in thy tabernacle for ever: I will trust in the covert of thy wings. Selah. (Verses like Psalms 61:4)

Psalms 63:7 - Because thou hast been my help, therefore in the shadow of thy wings will I rejoice. (Verses like Psalms 63:7)

Psalms 91:4 - He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler. (Verses like Psalms 91:4)

Isaiah 20:3-6 - And the LORD said, Like as my servant Isaiah hath walked naked and barefoot three years for a sign and wonder upon Egypt and upon Ethiopia;So shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians prisoners, and the Ethiopians captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with their buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.And they shall be afraid and ashamed of Ethiopia their expectation, and of Egypt their glory.And the inhabitant of this isle shall say in that day, Behold, such is our expectation, whither we flee for help to be delivered from the king of Assyria: and how shall we escape? (Verses like Isaiah 20:3)

Isaiah 30:2-3 - That walk to go down into Egypt, and have not asked at my mouth; to strengthen themselves in the strength of Pharaoh, and to trust in the shadow of Egypt!Therefore shall the strength of Pharaoh be your shame, and the trust in the shadow of Egypt your confusion. (Verses like Isaiah 30:2)

Isaiah 31:1 - Woe to them that go down to Egypt for help; and stay on horses, and trust in chariots, because they are many; and in horsemen, because they are very strong; but they look not unto the Holy One of Israel, neither seek the LORD! (Verses like Isaiah 31:1)

Ezekiel 30:9 - In that day shall messengers go forth from me in ships to make the careless Ethiopians afraid, and great pain shall come upon them, as in the day of Egypt: for, lo, it cometh. (Verses like Ezekiel 30:9)

Matthew 23:37 - O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! (Verses like Matthew 23:37)

https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/gills-exposition-of-the-bible/isaiah-18-1.html

Woe to the land shadowing with wings
Or, "O land", as calling to it; so Aben Ezra and Kimchi. It is very difficult to determine what land is here meant: some think the land of Assyria is here designed, as Aben Ezra and others, and so it is a continuation of the prophecy concerning the destruction of the Assyrians, in the three last verses of the preceding chapter ( Isaiah 17:12-14 ) ; the stretching out of whose wings is mentioned, ( Isaiah 8:8 ) and thought to be referred to here; others are of opinion that the land of Judea is intended, which trusted under the shadow of the wings of Egypt and Ethiopia, to whom the characters in the next verse ( Isaiah 18:2 ) are supposed to belong: but the more generally received sense is, that either Egypt or Ethiopia themselves are pointed at, described as "shadowing with wings"; not with the wings of birds, as Jarchi interprets it, which flocked thither in great numbers, the country being hot, and so shaded it with their wings; but rather with mountains, with which Ethiopia, at least some part of it, was encompassed and shaded; or else with ships, whose sails are like wings, and which resorting hither, in numerous fleets of them, and hovering about their coasts and ports, seemed to shadow them; to which agrees the Septuagint version, "Woe to the land, the wings of ships!" and so the Targum,

``Woe to the land to which they come in ships from a far country, whose sails are stretched out, as an eagle that flies with its wings;'' so Manasseh Ben Israel F3 renders them, ``Woe to the land, which, under the shadow of veils, falls beyond the rivers of Ethiopia.'' The word translated "shadowing" is used for a cymbal, ( 2 Samuel 6:5 ) ( Psalms 150:5 ) and so it is rendered here in the Vulgate Latin version, "Woe to the land, with the cymbal of wings": and some think the "sistrum", is meant, which was a musical instrument used by the Egyptians in their worship of Isis; and which had wings to it, or had transverse rods in the middle of it, which looked like wings, one of which may be seen in Pignorius F4; and so it describes the land of Egypt, famous for its winged cymbals. Minucius Felix F5 makes mention of the swallow along with the sistrum, which was a bird of Isis; and which some say was placed over the statue of Isis, with its wings stretched out. Which [is] beyond the rivers of Ethiopia;
the principal of which were Astaboras and Astapus F6, and also Nile itself, which came out of Ethiopia into Egypt: or, "which is on this side of the rivers of Ethiopia" F7; and so may intend Egypt, which bordered on this side of it towards Judea; or, "which is beside the rivers of Ethiopia" F8; and so may denote Ethiopia itself, situated by these rivers. The Targum renders it, ``the rivers of Judea.'' Some would have it, that the rivers of Arabia Chusaea are meant, which, lay between Judea and Egypt, as Besor, Rhinocorura, Trajan, and Corys; and Arabia seems rather to be meant by "Cush", than Ethiopia in Africa, since that lay beyond the rivers of Egypt, rather than Egypt beyond the rivers of Ethiopia.

DaDad said:

I believe there is another "eagle" citation which may apply.

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I have seen various people try to teach the USA is the wings of eagles , but really it is not applied to the USA , Rome used the eagle's wings as a symbol long before the USA existed, I've seen teachers say that bear cubs are the USA in prophecy .......
I see that you think the USA is in the bible but have not given any bible verses that clearly show that it refers to the USA ...

Perhaps it is just wishful thinking to find such a teaching in the bible , The Word of God was being written to people to teach them of the LORD GOD , ...to tell them of countries that did not exist and would not exist until hundreds of years into the future would be of no value to those that were reading the scriptures or being told of scriptures ,, for that to be valid the scriptures would have to indicate to those writing and reading the text in the bible times that They knew of teachings of future countries that did not yet exist in their time ... but that is not the case

seventysevens said:

I have seen various people try to teach the USA is the wings of eagles , but really it is not applied to the USA , Rome used the eagle's wings as a symbol long before the USA existed, ...

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I wrote to "keras" that many OT passages have little or no context making the interpretation less certain. However some Books provide comprehensive context, which makes the interpretations more certain.

And reading many of the considered Posts, it's clear that we not only "see through a glass darkly", but for some, their proposed "men" ARE actually "trees".

I also proposed to "TribulationSigns" that the 19th Book of the Bible (the Psalms) is Prophetic for the 1900's, Chapter per year (per J.R. Church's book "Hidden Prophecies In the Psalms), where with sufficient context, we can determine whether one of the Chapters is Prophetic for the U.S.

But SECONDLY, to your point, to maintain full context, if one were to consider that Daniel 2 outlines the sequence of world empires according to the commentators, one would find:


However, this portent defies verse 45, which provides the sequence Iron, Bronze, Clay, Silver, Gold = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE separate and distinct world empires. Thus to determine which entities comprise the FIFTH "divided kingdom" of CLAY, one must arrive at the BEASTS of Chapter 7, which includes the LION with EAGLES WINGS.

And I may be wrong, but geopolitically speaking, it seems that we live in an era where there isn't ONE world empire, but rather a "division" of THREE Superpowers and a United Nations, -- which again may coincide with the FOUR Beasts of Daniel 7.

Thanks,
DaDad

keras said:

... the Lord will use a Coronal Mass Ejection ...

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Hi keras,

I have a picture of five RB's (Re-entry Bodies) streaking through the atmosphere upon re-entry on their way to the Bikini Atoll, from a test of the Nation's Nuclear Enduring Stockpile. It appears to coincide with the "falling stars" of Rev. 6, and the response appears to be hiding in fallout shelters. Secondly, the Rev. 8 portent appears to depict nuclear war, with fires started, ships/submarines being targeted, the rivers/lakes poisoned with fallout, and the subsequent smoke and ash in the atmosphere.

Or so it would seem to me.

With Best Regards,
DaDad

Dale said:

... you have not demonstrated this. ...

... If we start from the assumption that we are in an end times scenario, then I could make a tentative prediction of my own. Donald Trump's hostility toward the allies of the US could seriously undermine our alliances....

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Hi Dale,
It's interesting that on one hand you require a "demonstration", and then you present a completely contrived (and completely implausible) scenario.
I believe your "politics" are showing ...
Thanks,
DaDad

DaDad said:

I wrote to "keras" that many OT passages have little or no context making the interpretation less certain. However some Books provide comprehensive context, which makes the interpretations more certain.

And reading many of the considered Posts, it's clear that we not only "see through a glass darkly", but for some, their proposed "men" ARE actually "trees".

I also proposed to "TribulationSigns" that the 19th Book of the Bible (the Psalms) is Prophetic for the 1900's, Chapter per year (per J.R. Church's book "Hidden Prophecies In the Psalms), where with sufficient context, we can determine whether one of the Chapters is Prophetic for the U.S.

But SECONDLY, to your point, to maintain full context, if one were to consider that Daniel 2 outlines the sequence of world empires according to the commentators, one would find:

1. Gold, Babylon
2. Silver, Medo/Persia
3. Bronze, Greece
4a. Iron, Rome
4b. Clay, Revived Rome​

However, this portent defies verse 45, which provides the sequence Iron, Bronze, Clay, Silver, Gold = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE separate and distinct world empires. Thus to determine which entities comprise the FIFTH "divided kingdom" of CLAY, one must arrive at the BEASTS of Chapter 7, which includes the LION with EAGLES WINGS.

And I may be wrong, but geopolitically speaking, it seems that we live in an era where there isn't ONE world empire, but rather a "division" of THREE Superpowers and a United Nations, -- which again may coincide with the FOUR Beasts of Daniel 7.

Thanks,
DaDad

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Hi
I see where you are coming from , but when examining the scriptures we can see what is refereed to when wings of eagles is used , and there isn't any references to the USA , it is understood that people look to see if something as USA is found in scripture , but it can only be a perceived assumption without some direct reference as just saying it must be the USA without a way to verify it absolutely is nothing more than an opinion and assumption - now if a crime was committed by someone that looked like you but wasn't you , you'd not like it when the police charge you with a crime simply cause someone says it must be you because you looked similar to the perpetrator

If you go back a few hundred years and then slowly look at the transformation of the things happening in the world and compare to scripture , it can be seen as compared to a new neighborhood being built - or a skyscraper being built where you can see the progress from it's starting point and what it will be when finished ,
We see countries like N Korea , Iran and others that desire to be seen and recognized by the world as a superpower as they seek to obtain a nuclear weapon, what we are seeing is a transformation of the world geopolitical scene and it has not yet been completed , since the Man of Sin/Beast is seen as a world ruler that dictates at least the mass majority of the earths population we know that this transformation is not yet complete , it may be that the superpowers agree to act as one together before the Man of Sin is revealed

seventysevens said:

... when examining the scriptures we can see what is refereed to when wings of eagles is used , and there isn't any references to the USA ,

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Dear SeventySevens,
It's Context, Context, Context. The words "United States Of America" are NOT found is Scripture, but neither is "tank" or "helicopter", or "nuclear weapons". "WWI" isn't used, or "WWII", "Hitler", the "Holocaust", etc., but the events and participants ARE depicted in Prophecy, IN CONTEXT.

Thus Bible Prophecy!

With Best Regards,
DaDad