Does this scripture refute OSAS? [Updated]

JakeyB123 said:

I've been tossed between doctrines many times.
I come across scriptures that seem to support OSAS and some refute it.
I really want to stop being tossed and be justified by faith in Christ and not by the law, yet live holy before the Lord without saying is this getting me to heaven? But simply just knowing the truth... For example there's a scripture that talks about that some are ever-learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth, and I don't want that to be me...
Please explain to me if this supports OSAS somehow, or it simply refutes it.
The scripture is Matthew 24:48-51 KJV
Matthew 24:48-51 King James Version (KJV)
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

I ask that before answering you ask the Lord for understanding and wisdom.

Click to expand...

.
These verses pertain to the Jewish Nation at the time of Christ, they were losing the Kingdom promised to them, because of rejecting their Messiah.

The ones directly spoken of are the Pharisees, they were mistreating the people, placing burdens on them they were not able to bear, they were the servants spoken of smiting their fellow servants, and Jesus came in a time they were not aware of, and cut them asunder.

These verses do not in any way, shape or form speak about OSAS.

Your Salvation is in Christ, it is secured in/by Christ.

These verses on the other hand do speak directly to the issue of OSAS.

God's Everlasting Love
Rom 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
Rom 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
Rom 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Rom 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

/nvm

/nvm

JakeyB123 said:

I come across scriptures that seem to support OSAS and some refute it.

Click to expand...

There are many verses that support OSAS and there are no contradictions in God's Word.
So when you see verses that seem to refute OSAS you can know that they are talking about something else.

Ephesians 1:13 says that when we trusted Christ we were sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption.
Jesus said in John 10:28 that those He gives eternal life to will never perish.


You can dispute all day long about who Jesus gives eternal life to, but once He gives eternal life, they have eternal life forever.

I have always understood it’s as a parable of humanity, being Gods servant, His creation. Some shall be obedient, some shall not be. Those that choose not to be, have some dark times ahead.

Much love in Christ, Not me

Doug Melven said:

There are many verses that support OSAS and there are no contradictions in God's Word.
So when you see verses that seem to refute OSAS you can know that they are talking about something else.

Ephesians 1:13 says that when we trusted Christ we were sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption.
Jesus said in John 10:28 that those He gives eternal life to will never perish.


You can dispute all day long about who Jesus gives eternal life to, but once He gives eternal life, they have eternal life forever.

Click to expand...

.
I'm not disputing, I'm reinforcing.

Eternal Life is in effect,......FOREVER!

JIMINZ said:

.
I'm not disputing, I'm reinforcing.

Eternal Life is in effect,......FOREVER!

Click to expand...

Many will dispute OSAS.
I was in a thread that went over 150 pages .that was finally closed due to flaming.

JakeyB123 said:

I've been tossed between doctrines many times.
I come across scriptures that seem to support OSAS and some refute it.
I really want to stop being tossed and be justified by faith in Christ and not by the law, yet live holy before the Lord without saying is this getting me to heaven? But simply just knowing the truth... For example there's a scripture that talks about that some are ever-learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth, and I don't want that to be me...
Please explain to me if this supports OSAS somehow, or it simply refutes it.
The scripture is Matthew 24:48-51 KJV
Matthew 24:48-51 King James Version (KJV)
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

I ask that before answering you ask the Lord for understanding and wisdom.

Click to expand...

That passage is about pastors abusing those in their charge. Because they know better, they will be severely punished, and assigned a place with the unbelievers.

Here's the same passage from Luke chapter 12--

42The Lord answered, “Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom the master puts in charge of his servants to give them their food allowance at the proper time? 43It will be good for that servant whom the master finds doing so when he returns. 44Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 45But suppose the servant says to himself, ‘My master is taking a long time in coming,’ and he then begins to beat the other servants, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk. 46The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers.

47“The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. 48But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked. "


The OSAS idea is not plainly said in scripture, and plenty of passages, such as this one above, appear to clearly rule out OSAS.

Don't even worry about ideas like OSAS, but read and read through the gospels and epistles. Start in chapter 1, verse 1, and read through, taking your time. Christ's words are literally eternal!

When you are talking about the doctrine that once you are saved you are always saved, you are talking about what God does. God knows who are his. We don't. So much of scripture speaks in the perspective of God which is absolute and much of scripture speaks in the perspective of us which is relative.

So when it comes to what we can see. When it comes to what we are able to know, we must "work out out salvation with fear and trembling." We must regard ourselves as not necessarily saved to the end for it says "he who endures to the end will be saved."

However when it comes to God and what he has done, if he has in fact saved you then he will bring you to the end and whether or not you endure actually depends on him and not you. So yes, in God's perspective the ones who are saved are always saved: the absolute perspective.

But we can't tell who these people are and this is why much of scripture teaches us to regard ourselves as though we could fall away so that we do not actually fall away. It's the self fulfilling prophecy but in this case the self defeating prophecy. We are humble by the fact that if it were up to us then indeed we would fall away at some point. For so it says

And if the Lord had not cut short the days, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, whom he chose, he shortened the days. ~Mark 13:20

This scripture describes both realities at once. The people who ultimately are depending on their own strengths will be revealed for that since they will fall away. All of us would fall away if left to our own devices. But here we see God intervening on behalf of the elect whom he chose because it depends on him, he moves heaven and earth to ensure that indeed the elect are saved.

Many people believe in God falsely. They deceive themselves into thinking that they will go to heaven but refuse to obey God and repent. As it says

having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. ~2 Timothy 3:5

These people must all be revealed in time for their lack of being genuine but coming to the Lord by flattery. These are the people who "lose" their salvation. But the elect will never lose salvation as it says

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. ~John 10:28-29

The reason the ELECT are once saved always saved is because they depend on the Lord and when you depend on the Lord for your salvation, he moves heaven and earth to save you.

But again, lastly, we do not see the elect with our eyes and so it appears in our perspective that yes you can lose your salvation and you can run in vain. We must live this way because this is the truth for us but it is not the truth ultimately. As it says,

He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ So the servants said to him, ‘Then do you want us to go and gather them?’ But he said, ‘No, lest in gathering the weeds you root up the wheat along with them. Let both grow together until the harvest, and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, “Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.” ~Matthew 13:28-30

Fundamentally Predestined
Effectively Choice

JakeyB123 said:

I've been tossed between doctrines many times.
I come across scriptures that seem to support OSAS and some refute it.

Click to expand...

Don't follow doctrines of men.
As long as you see ONE VERSE , ONE SCRIPTURE, that refutes the doctrine, it is a false doctrine.

I think this passage goes to show that our faith means nothing if we willfully neglect doing what God wants us to. If we turn down our works to pursue earthly pleasures, our faith is proven to be dead.

• We are justified by faith, but not alone.
• We are justified by works, but not apart from faith.
• We aren't justified by faith, unless our faith is accompanied by works.

JakeyB123 said:

I've been tossed between doctrines many times.
I come across scriptures that seem to support OSAS and some refute it.
I really want to stop being tossed and be justified by faith in Christ and not by the law, yet live holy before the Lord without saying is this getting me to heaven? But simply just knowing the truth... For example there's a scripture that talks about that some are ever-learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth, and I don't want that to be me...
Please explain to me if this supports OSAS somehow, or it simply refutes it.
The scripture is Matthew 24:48-51 KJV
Matthew 24:48-51 King James Version (KJV)
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

I ask that before answering you ask the Lord for understanding and wisdom.

Click to expand...

Not a refutation of OSAS.

This passage is Jesus reiterating his point about tares and wheat, that in the church there will be a mixture of people who are genuine converts and those who are not. Servant in this passage refers to those in the visible church, or those who are visibly among the followers of God; this implies nothing about one's spiritual nature. Judas would be the archetypical example.

The difference being that the genuine converts are born again. Being born-again changes your underlying spiritual nature, which leads to a change in attitudes and a progressive sanctification in behaviour over time. This doesn't happen with the tares, that's why they eventually turn on the wheat, they remain children of Satan and as such are enemies of God's true people: those who are born again. They're like weeds in the church, they get in and may appear to play along, but it's superficial. They aren't repentant, they get into positions of influence and start denying doctrines and pushing their heresies and generally causing all kinds of mischief. This is, unfortunately, the visible church's history in a nutshell.

JakeyB123 said:

I've been tossed between doctrines many times.
I come across scriptures that seem to support OSAS and some refute it.
I really want to stop being tossed and be justified by faith in Christ and not by the law, yet live holy before the Lord without saying is this getting me to heaven? But simply just knowing the truth... For example there's a scripture that talks about that some are ever-learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth, and I don't want that to be me...
Please explain to me if this supports OSAS somehow, or it simply refutes it.
The scripture is Matthew 24:48-51 KJV
Matthew 24:48-51 King James Version (KJV)
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

I ask that before answering you ask the Lord for understanding and wisdom.

Click to expand...

After We are Saved by God's Grace, God’s Works (Done Through Us) Are Also Required As a Part of the Salvation Process:

(Here are a List of Verses):

“Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).

"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” (James 2:17-18).

"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).

"If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, "(1 Timothy 6:3-4).

"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6).

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? (Romans 6:1-2).

"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:9).

"Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).

“...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth” (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).

"If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha." (1 Corinthians 16:22).

"If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).

“If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.” (John 15:10).

"And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me." (Matthew 10:38).

”If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? (Matthew 16:24-26).

"...No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:62).

“Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.” (Matthew 5:8).

"Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." (James 1:21).

"But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:8-11).

”And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” (Revelation 22:12-15).

"For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." (John 3:20).

“For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:21-22).

"...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17).

“Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” (Philippians 2:12).

“...And having become servants of God, ye have your fruit unto holiness and the end, everlasting life.” (Romans 6:22).

”Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.” (Matthew 25:34-40).

“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” (Matthew 25:41-46).

”His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.” (Matthew 25:21).

”And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 25:30).

”Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation [i.e. as the people of Israel did when they rebelled against him in the desert.”] (Hebrews 3:12-15) (Note: The explanation on verse 15 in brackets is taken from the Living Bible Translation (TLB)).

”Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)” (Hebrews 3:10-11).

”Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. (Hebrews 4:11).

“In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10).

“He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God” (John 8:47).

Verses on the Error of Christians saying they cannot walk uprightly:

Jesus says,

"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven" (Matthew 5:16).

Jesus also says,

"You give glory to my Father when you produce a lot of fruit and therefore show that you are my disciples." (John 15:8 GW).

And Peter says,

"Be careful to live properly among your unbelieving neighbors. Then even if they accuse you of doing wrong, they will see your honorable behavior, and they will give honor to God when he judges the world." (1 Peter 2:12 NLT).

Paul says,

"That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" (Philippians 2:15).

JakeyB123 said:

I've been tossed between doctrines many times.
I come across scriptures that seem to support OSAS and some refute it.
I really want to stop being tossed and be justified by faith in Christ and not by the law, yet live holy before the Lord without saying is this getting me to heaven? But simply just knowing the truth... For example there's a scripture that talks about that some are ever-learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth, and I don't want that to be me...
Please explain to me if this supports OSAS somehow, or it simply refutes it.
The scripture is Matthew 24:48-51 KJV
Matthew 24:48-51 King James Version (KJV)
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

I ask that before answering you ask the Lord for understanding and wisdom.

Click to expand...

One problem with trying to use that passage as well as a number of other passages to refute OSAS is you need to prove that the "Once Saved" actually occurred. You could speculate that because it says "servant" (actually "evil servant"), therefore that evil servant was saved, which doesn't necessarily follow.

The thing with OSAS is that it's based on clear and explicit statements, like 1John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us.
For if they had been of us (ONCE SAVED)
they would have remained with us (ALWAYS SAVED)
But their going out showed that none of them belonged to us.

Notice the verse speaks of "us" and "them", both associated with the Christian community. Now while it is against the rules of these forums to suggest that not all "Christians" are "Real Christians", the letter of 1John, among other scriptures, speak explicitly of that very distinction.

"This is how we distinguish between who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: (among the Christian community) Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother." 1John 3:10

Likewise with regards to a lot of Jesus' parables, like the Matthew 13 parables on nominalism. But people who read the Bible like I do eventually get banned from these forums for such statements and so you're not likely to hear this viewpoint very much in these forums.

Kevin Snow said:

When you are talking about the doctrine that once you are saved you are always saved, you are talking about what God does. God knows who are his. We don't.

Click to expand...

Actually we can know who is of God or not.

1 John 2:3-4 says,
3 "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

1 John 3:10 says,
"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."

"For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." (John 3:20).

7 "Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil;"
(1 John 3:7-8).

1 John 3:15 says,
"Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him."

5 "...God;
6 ...will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; " (Romans 2:5-12).

14 "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie." (Revelation 22:14-15).

bcbsr said:

One problem with trying to use that passage as well as a number of other passages to refute OSAS is you need to prove that the "Once Saved" actually occurred. You could speculate that because it says "servant" (actually "evil servant"), therefore that evil servant was saved, which doesn't necessarily follow.

The thing with OSAS is that it's based on clear and explicit statements, like 1John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us.
For if they had been of us (ONCE SAVED)
they would have remained with us (ALWAYS SAVED)
But their going out showed that none of them belonged to us.

Notice the verse speaks of "us" and "them", both associated with the Christian community. Now while it is against the rules of these forums to suggest that not all "Christians" are "Real Christians", the letter of 1John, among other scriptures, speak explicitly of that very distinction.

"This is how we distinguish between who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: (among the Christian community) Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother." 1John 3:10

Likewise with regards to a lot of Jesus' parables, like the Matthew 13 parables on nominalism. But people who read the Bible like I do eventually get banned from these forums for such statements and so you're not likely to hear this viewpoint very much in these forums.

Click to expand...

Then we should never quote Matthew 7:23. For this verse teaches that those who did many wonderful works in Christ's name are told to depart from Him because they worked iniquity (sin). Do you think these individuals did not profess that they were not Christians? It doesn't seem like that to me.

Also, do you ever think that those who are banned for speaking the truth of Scripture are doing so because Scripture says all who will live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution?

I know you believe in OSAS, but from my experience, there is nothing more sinister than that kind of belief. It has nothing to do with the Bible. One has to ignore all the warnings in the Bible and how works play a part in the salvation process in order to make such a belief work. For to say we are saved by God's grace without works and to say nothing more can potentially lead some people to think they can live extremely evil lives and yet still be saved. Surely this cannot be. For such a belief would be immoral.

bcbsr said:

One problem with trying to use that passage as well as a number of other passages to refute OSAS is you need to prove that the "Once Saved" actually occurred. You could speculate that because it says "servant" (actually "evil servant"), therefore that evil servant was saved, which doesn't necessarily follow.

The thing with OSAS is that it's based on clear and explicit statements, like 1John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us.
For if they had been of us (ONCE SAVED)
they would have remained with us (ALWAYS SAVED)
But their going out showed that none of them belonged to us.

Notice the verse speaks of "us" and "them", both associated with the Christian community. Now while it is against the rules of these forums to suggest that not all "Christians" are "Real Christians", the letter of 1John, among other scriptures, speak explicitly of that very distinction.

"This is how we distinguish between who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: (among the Christian community) Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother." 1John 3:10

Likewise with regards to a lot of Jesus' parables, like the Matthew 13 parables on nominalism. But people who read the Bible like I do eventually get banned from these forums for such statements and so you're not likely to hear this viewpoint very much in these forums.

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Also, 1 John 2 is talking about the false gnostics who were trying to seduce them (See 1 John 2:26).
So we cannot use this verse to teach OSAS. They were a special case of not being true believers to begin with. These gnostics believed that sin did not exist for them (1 John 1:8). How is that different when an OSAS proponent says that their future sins are paid for by having a belief on Jesus? They are saying sin does not exist for them when they do sin because Jesus paid for all their sin. Yet, 1 John 1:8 is a warning not to think this way. 1 John 1:7 says, "But if we walk [i.e. we keep his commandments] in the light [i.e. the Father], as he [Christ] is in the light [i.e. the Father], we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." (Compare with John 14:23).

See how perfectly clearly doctrines can be said to be perfectly clear in Scripture
when they are directly in motive and in results opposed to Scripture ......
As Scripture warns about , as well....
Test everything..... Trust the heavenly Father, not men with doctrines opposed to Him....