Convince me that euthanasia is sinful.

name_is_irrelevant said:

Please read this whole post before responding -- thanks.

My church seems to think it is, and is supporting political opposition to a voluntary euthanasia bill being discussed in my country. I don't see why euthanasia is necessarily sinful though.

I've heard it argued that it's murder. What makes it murder? Obviously not all killing is murder. To my mind, murder has to do with hate, as per Jesus' statement about hating your brother being equivalent to murder in your heart, it's an attitude. I really don't see how someone choosing to end their life because they're suffering with incurable cancer or whatever is in the same spirit as that. Even if suicide is arguably sinful for other reasons, such as hatred of self (and if you want to suggest that all desire to end one's own life is necessarily hatred of self, burden of proof for that position is on you), I can't see how that should result in blanket opposition to euthanasia.

Or someone else may argue that the timing of our death is to be left to the sovereignty of God. This doesn't make any sense, because nothing we do can interfere with that anyway. By the same logic, you may as well not wear a seatbelt when driving because to do so would be failure to trust the Lord and leave your safety to his care, as it's not your place to attempt to control your fate.

Besides this, when taking other teachings by St Paul about it not being our place to judge those outside the church, and his teachings about not letting your liberty be determined by someone else's conscience, I can't see a good reason for a Christian to politically oppose something like this. It seems to me there's more emotionalism than scriptural reasoning being employed to justify a stance against it.

Click to expand...

Sin is based on your motives and not the observed sins of others.

name_is_irrelevant said:

To my mind, murder has to do with hate

Click to expand...

Murder is the unlawful killing of another human without justification or valid excuse.
Life is a gift from God, we don't own our lives. They are given to us in order that we might worship and serve God.

May I suggest you research how untanasia is suffering from mission creep in Belgum, where those who are merely tired of life have been euthanaised and where children are being offered euthanasia.

name_is_irrelevant said:

the timing of our death is to be left to the sovereignty of God

Click to expand...

It is not so much left to Gods timeing as being totaly in Gods control.
So why the fuss. Simple.
Christians are to care for the poor, the sick and the alien.
Do you know the 2nd greatest commandment:-
" To love others as you love yourself!
To murder someone simple because they are inconvientent, or expensive in money, time and emotions or because they are depressed is a strang way of showing love.

Tolworth John said:

May I suggest you research how untanasia is suffering from mission creep in Belgum, where those who are merely tired of life have been euthanaised and where children are being offered euthanasia.

Click to expand...

There is an interesting effect involving the definition of words going on in Belgium that I've only recently discovered.

By definition in the US, "assisted suicide" means you decide that your life is no longer worth living, and you get assistance to kill yourself; "euthanasia" means someone else decides that your life is no longer worth living and that person kills you.... without necessarily getting your consent.

In Belgium and some other areas in Europe, those two very different concepts have been conflated under the single term "euthanasia." Both appear to be equally legal by the same law.

name_is_irrelevant said:

So because some people use it sinfully, therefore no one must be allowed it? Isn't that the definition of legalism?

Click to expand...

No, that's not the definition of "legalism."

"Legalism" is the belief that by following certain procedures and lifestyles, one is able to obligate God to save him. It stems from the apostle Paul's discussion in Romans about the inability of the Law of Moses to obligate God to salvation, as though following the Law was contracted labor and salvation was its due payment.

Believing that God owes salvation because one obeyed a law is "legalism."

Euthanasia denotes a lack of faith. Christ never promises us health, wealth, and even happiness. We can always have joy as Christians, but that joy is rooted in the hope of what is to come in Christ, not necessarily our present situation.

For me, the bottom line is that I don't know God's plan for my life. What if God wants to heal me, and use my story to bring more glory to Himself?

I Corinthians 6:19-20 - "Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? For you have been bought with price: therefore glorify God in your body. "

I don't see how euthanasia is honoring our body.

My son's baseball coach brought his mother who was living out of state to live with him because her health was failing, and she was only expected to live a few more weeks. She was in pain. If euthanasia was legal, it would have been discussed. This was 8 years ago. She's doing well now, and has had a positive impact on the community these past few years.

We don't know what God's plans are for us. For me, it's an authority issue. When I became a Christian, I in some sense literally became the ownership and property of God. Paul calls himself a servant, a slave of Christ. I don't see my body as my own, I see it as God's. I am called to live my life to the best of my ability in such a way that will maximize the glory of God. I can't think of a situation where euthanasia accomplishes that purpose.

Exodus 20:13

"Thou shalt not kill."

Does not say, It's ok to kill those who are sick.

name_is_irrelevant said:

By unlawful do you mean God's law, which says to love your neighbor as yourself?

Again, I don't see how voluntary euthanasia is necessarily unloving.



So you're saying that if you're dying of cancer, it's not OK to end your life because as you suffer there wasting away, that serves God. Is that correct?

If our suffering serves God, then does that mean we should not use anesthesia either? Or what if a person is put into a coma until they die, is that acceptable?



So because some people use it sinfully, therefore no one must be allowed it? Isn't that the definition of legalism?

Click to expand...

I used the legal definition of murder. We do not have the authority to take anyones life.

Voluntary euthanasis, please define what you mean by voluntary. Is convincing a dying person that they are using resources that could be used on others voluntary, is taking the life of someone who is mentally depressed and not making sense voluntary?

Is something right because that situation is oh so sad.
Belgum start off as you have but there use of euthasia has moved, as I've already said so that those who are tired of life can end it and that this is being offered to Children.

Yes the suffering of the terminaly ill is often very great. The answewr is not to kill them but to develop better palative care.

I used to be opposed to euthanasia and assisted death, but then I've spent some time around people suffering in their final stages. Now I support it under certain conditions. I don’t think God wants that for us. I don’t know if I could do it for myself or a loved one but I think people who are suffering greatly should have s choice.

MoneyGuy said:

I used to be opposed to euthanasia and assisted death, but then I've spent some time around people suffering in their final stages. Now I support it under certain conditions. I don’t think God wants that for us. I don’t know if I could do it for myself or a loved one but I think people who are suffering greatly should have s choice.

Click to expand...

There are consequences for our actions and our choices. There are consequences to others for our choices.

Perhaps God has a GREATER purpose for the COMMANDMENT.

Thou shall not kill.

name_is_irrelevant said:

Please read this whole post before responding -- thanks.

My church seems to think it is, and is supporting political opposition to a voluntary euthanasia bill being discussed in my country. I don't see why euthanasia is necessarily sinful though.

I've heard it argued that it's murder. What makes it murder? Obviously not all killing is murder. To my mind, murder has to do with hate, as per Jesus' statement about hating your brother being equivalent to murder in your heart, it's an attitude. I really don't see how someone choosing to end their life because they're suffering with incurable cancer or whatever is in the same spirit as that. Even if suicide is arguably sinful for other reasons, such as hatred of self (and if you want to suggest that all desire to end one's own life is necessarily hatred of self, burden of proof for that position is on you), I can't see how that should result in blanket opposition to euthanasia.

Or someone else may argue that the timing of our death is to be left to the sovereignty of God. This doesn't make any sense, because nothing we do can interfere with that anyway. By the same logic, you may as well not wear a seatbelt when driving because to do so would be failure to trust the Lord and leave your safety to his care, as it's not your place to attempt to control your fate.

Besides this, when taking other teachings by St Paul about it not being our place to judge those outside the church, and his teachings about not letting your liberty be determined by someone else's conscience, I can't see a good reason for a Christian to politically oppose something like this. It seems to me there's more emotionalism than scriptural reasoning being employed to justify a stance against it.

Click to expand...

First I would like to state that Christians should not have any part in politics. What is of the World is worldly and we are to be separate and spiritual. I am replying only to give scriptural backing against the Act of euthanizing humans, not any man made law for or against.

1. Killing any man for any reason is a sin.
Most Christians believe its okay to kill or harm others while protecting themselves, family, or country. Most so called pastors agree, but the word of God says contrary. Christ Yahshua says in
Matthew 5:7-9
7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Matthew 5:38-39
38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Matthew 5:44
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
John the Baptist told roman soldiers in,
Luke 3:14
14 And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages.
1 Peter 3:9 says,
9 Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.
Ephesians 6:15 says,
15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
When Paul was struck in the mouth he did not retaliate with violence,
Acts 23:2-3
2 And the high priest Ananias commanded them that stood by him to smite him on the mouth.
3 Then said Paul unto him, God shall smite thee, thou whited wall: for sittest thou to judge me after the law, and commandest me to be smitten contrary to the law?
Revelation 13:10 says,
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
Matthew 26:51-52
51 And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear.
52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
Christ also says we are to be as wise as a serpepnt and as harmless as a dove,
Matt 10:16
16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
Of course this goes against human nature. But Christ followers are to be separate and different than worldly people. They are peaceful, loving, and kind. When a man kills another man he takes not only his life but also that mans chance to repent and be saved. For all who die in sin are damned. This is why Christians can not harm or kill anyone for any reason.
James 1:19-20
19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
Ephesian 4:26,31-32
26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
1 Peter 3:8-14
8 Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous
9 Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.
10 For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:
11 Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it.
12 For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.
13 And who is he that will harm you, if ye be followers of that which is good?
14 But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;
Romans 8:36
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Revelation 12:11
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

So whoever helps you kill yourself is guilty of sin for killing you.

2. Killing yourself is a sin because you are destroying the temple of the Lord(Acts 7:47-50, Acts 17:23-25, 1 Cor 3:8-11, 16-17, 1 Cor 6:13,15, 17-20, 1 John 3:24, 1 John 4:14-15, 2 Cor 6:16). Our body's are to be presented as Holy and acceptable(living sacrifice, Romans 12:1) harming yourself and killing yourself desecrates the temple of the Lord which is a sin. Everything we do is supposed to be done to Glorify God(Colossians 3:17, 23-24, 1 Cor 14:26, 1 Cor 10:31-11:1) killing yourself does not glorify God, but instead it dishonors him.

3. Not wearing a seat belt would be breaking the Law of Man which would give the appearance of Evil which we are to abstain from(1 Thess 5:22) and would also be breaking the law of man which is only okay to break if it disagrees with the law of God(Daniel 6:8-16, Daniel 3:12-29, Acts 5:27-29).

4. We are to judge all things/people by the word of God( 1 Cor 2:15, 6:2-5, Matt 7:1-3) for in heaven we shall judge angels and to the saints the judgement of the world is committed. So taking Paul's writings in context with the rest of the Sword of God we see that we are to Judge everyone by the word of God alone. That does not mean we execute Judgment and force the truth and the righteous way of life onto anyone, it only means that we Judge everything/everyone we come into contact with by the word of God. Christ alone has power on earth to execute Judgement(John 5:22-23,27,30).

5. Lastly I would like to point out again that I am only giving scriptural support against the Act euthanizing someone or choosing to be euthanized yourself. Where politics are concerned we are not to play any part but we can still tell people the right way to live, it is up to them to choose it.

name_is_irrelevant said:

Or someone else may argue that the timing of our death is to be left to the sovereignty of God. This doesn't make any sense, because nothing we do can interfere with that anyway. By the same logic, you may as well not wear a seatbelt when driving because to do so would be failure to trust the Lord and leave your safety to his care, as it's not your place to attempt to control your fate.

Click to expand...

I don't understand that reasoning, but it may have to do more with how I'm not the best at logic. To me, the two situations you present are quite different. With the seatbelt question yes God is completely sovereign, yet he also commanded us to take care with our lives. To not wear a seatbelt is to put yourself in a possibly dangerous situation and is definitely not taking the proper precautions to protect one's own life. God is sovereign yet we are also responsible for our actions.

With euthanasia, God is the only one who should determine the time of one's death. You brought up a good point with not all murder being a sin. Killing someone in an act of justice is commanded by God, if someone has been determined in a court of law to the best of our ability to have murdered someone then that person should be put to death.

Yet again, euthanasia has nothing to do with that. The person who is dying, unless they in fact have committed murder, is not commanded by God to be put to death by his revealed word to us. So then, since we are outside of that situation, the timing of their death should, by God's word, be left to him since we are the image bearers of God and we do not know what God's specific purpose is in having any one person continue in life here on the earth. So the timing of their death should be left in God's hands.

That being said, though I do not support the act based on God's word, I cannot condemn someone harshly (judge not lest you be judged) if they do in fact take their own life by euthanasia (or suicide for that matter). I have been blessed by the Lord by no major health problems and can only imagine what that person is going through. I will reiterate that I believe it is a sin and abhorred by God but I again state that I can't look down in condescension on that person. Lord knows the sins I deal with and hate but in my weakness I am overwhelmed at times.

name_is_irrelevant said:

Besides this, when taking other teachings by St Paul about it not being our place to judge those outside the church, and his teachings about not letting your liberty be determined by someone else's conscience, I can't see a good reason for a Christian to politically oppose something like this. It seems to me there's more emotionalism than scriptural reasoning being employed to justify a stance against it.

Click to expand...

For this, whom I politically support is an effort to elect a representative of my own values. That is why I would not politically support someone who is in favor of euthanasia and perhaps why your church in not supporting it. However, it seems that such a thing should be left to the individual members of the church. It just seems off to me that a church as an institution should be politically backing anything. Maybe it just reminds me of that cliché that this political party is backed by that church and that political party is for this other church. I don't have a good ground for this opinion however, just seems kind of off. It could be from what you were intimating that the church needs to be more concerned with its own members and not primarily what people outside the church are doing morally.

cfyahoo08 said:

Exodus 20:13

"Thou shalt not kill."

Does not say, It's ok to kill those who are sick.

Click to expand...

This clearly does not mean "kill" in the sense you are interpreting. It actually means "Thou shalt not commit unlawful murder." There was plenty of killing in the OT post (and pre) Exodus that was sanctioned by God. David for example killed Goliath, but this glorified God rather than denied Him.

I personally am against Euthanasia because it is almost impossible to safely determine consent. But "thou shalt not kill" is a poor argument.

Even on purely secular grounds, I consider Euthanasia abhorrent.

The risk of abuse is very high, consent issues dubious, a slippery slope seen in Belgium and Netherlands where healthy 20 year olds are offered Euthanasia for depression, etc. That is not treatment. Death is not a treatment option.
For we assume suicides weren't in their right minds, so why do we assume these aren't suffering from depression secondary to their illnesses? Are they even competent to make such an irrevocable decision? Is it ethical to extend such a right to a family member, who might have incentive in form of inheritance or ease of their own life, instead of the patient's best interest?
Then doctors clearing ICU beds, always in short supply, for patients they assume have a better prognosis (and yes, this has occured, in Brazil for instance, even without legal Euthanasia).

It also discourages research into conditions, as the incentive to spend research money there is removed, as the problem is euthanised away (such as hereditary diseases or Trisomies). Besides, conditions that we could have euthanised for a 100 years ago, today can have ten or more extra good years - such as various cancers or the marked improvements we've made in Alzheimers. This would never have occured if all those people were killed off, leaving neither subjects for research nor a pressing societal need to invest in curing it.

So Euthanasia is wrong in my opinion, in and of itself, without any religious argument even necessary.

On religious grounds, we don't know if suffering might be salutary to someone's salvation or not. Peter suffered when denying Christ, as did Judas after betraying Him. One was reconciled and became a pillar of the Church, the other hung himself. Would Peter have been the same if he commited suicide too? I think not.
How are we to presume this? As Jesus quoted, "Physician heal thyself".
To think Euthanasia is the same as treating disease is ludicrous. Extending life is different than ending it. Euthanasia is giving up.

Anyway, how do we determine quality of life, or value?
If I give you an apple, and it becomes bad, you still hold more value than when you had nothing. So Life, even a struggling one, has more value than Death, the negation of anything. For we simply don't know what lies beyond the vale of Death, so to think it 'better' than actual continued existence if that existence is a faltering one, is a complete shot in the dark. We don't know what is better or worse, here. Not experiencing anything at all, cannot be deemed necessarily better than some experience - it is not the negative vs the positive, but something vs nothing at all.
So yes, Euthanasia is presuming to judge the unjudgeable, the intrinsic worth of experience. It is presumptious, especially if we take the idea of the Afterlife into account. For if you argue you are 'saved', then why not just kill yourself now and experience bliss, then? It is utterly prideful of man to think we can take our own Life itself in our hands.

No. Thou shalt not kill. Doctors must also be non-Malificent and Beneficent. Euthanasia contradicts both secular and religious moral spheres, as far as I am concerned.

name_is_irrelevant said:

Please read this whole post before responding -- thanks.

My church seems to think it is, and is supporting political opposition to a voluntary euthanasia bill being discussed in my country. I don't see why euthanasia is necessarily sinful though.

I've heard it argued that it's murder. What makes it murder? Obviously not all killing is murder. To my mind, murder has to do with hate, as per Jesus' statement about hating your brother being equivalent to murder in your heart, it's an attitude. I really don't see how someone choosing to end their life because they're suffering with incurable cancer or whatever is in the same spirit as that. Even if suicide is arguably sinful for other reasons, such as hatred of self (and if you want to suggest that all desire to end one's own life is necessarily hatred of self, burden of proof for that position is on you), I can't see how that should result in blanket opposition to euthanasia.

Or someone else may argue that the timing of our death is to be left to the sovereignty of God. This doesn't make any sense, because nothing we do can interfere with that anyway. By the same logic, you may as well not wear a seatbelt when driving because to do so would be failure to trust the Lord and leave your safety to his care, as it's not your place to attempt to control your fate.

Besides this, when taking other teachings by St Paul about it not being our place to judge those outside the church, and his teachings about not letting your liberty be determined by someone else's conscience, I can't see a good reason for a Christian to politically oppose something like this. It seems to me there's more emotionalism than scriptural reasoning being employed to justify a stance against it.

Click to expand...

You apparently already know it is sinful. You seem to be emotional about this. No worries though, if you decide to agree with Yahweh(God) and His Word. You don't have to be emotional about this. (well, maybe)

Anyway, since it is sinful, what then do you choose to do ? Accept Yahweh's Wise Counsel, His Word, and His Way,
or keep trying to oppose His Word ?