Is evolution a fact or theory?

Job 33:6

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The Bible never said earth is 6000 year old. My understanding of the Bible is, before Adam sinned, he can live for ever, so he might have lived n billion years before he ate the apple.

The article does observed from the current scientific findings (which matured in the last 20 year or so), most living things has clear boundrys in between, and they all appeared around 200k+ years at almost the same time. Looks awfully like God created all things around that time isn't it (there are DNA driftings but they are small)?

And the reason that I gave this post a funny rating, is that you misunderstood the article here as well. They aren't talking about ancestral or temporal boundaries, theyre referring to genetic differences between modern day species. And they aren't talking about when life first appeared. They're referring to the most recent incidences of speciation.

And again, the authors even conclude that gradualistic evolution is a reasonable explanation for their findings.

You just don't understand what they're saying.

Obviously there will be genetic differences/boundariwa between say an elephant and giraffe. But evolution does suggest that these two organisms are directly related to begin with.
 
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2tim_215

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All it's really telling us is that they have a common creator, which the Bible tells us and we don't need science tell us, although you could say that it confirms what we know already if you wish.
 
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scottyp588

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All it's really telling us is that they have a common creator, which the Bible tells us and we don't need science tell us, although you could say that it confirms what we know already if you wish.

Science is not telling us that we had a common creator. It tells us that we have a common ancestor. Even if science were to tell us something in the bible was right, having a predisposition and claiming that you knew all along still doesn't prove that the way you got to the conclusion was right.
 
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2tim_215

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Science is not telling us that we had a common creator. It tells us that we have a common ancestor. Even if science were to tell us something in the bible was right, having a predisposition and claiming that you knew all along still doesn't prove that the way you got to the conclusion was right.
Evolution says its a common ancestor. The Bible and common sense says it's a common creator.
 
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dcalling

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Nope. None is "lisard like." They are all dinosaurs or birds or some transition between. None of them is at all "lizard like."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juravenator
664e1.jpg
Given above example, what happened between 4 and 5? How come those "unnessessary feathres" that can't fly and have no other benifits stayed for so long and magically evoluted to something they can use to fly?
Some do. Which is what you'd expect. And many others don't, which is what Darwin predicted. Ring species, for example, show a blurring of the boundaries between species as do many, many other organisms.
http://www.actionbioscience.org/evolution/irwin.html

[quote[and "In analysing the barcodes across 100,000 species, the researchers found a telltale sign showing that almost all the animals emerged about the same time as humans"

Which is exactly what Darwin predicted would happen if the environment changed drastically. You'd see lots of extinctions and lots of new species. And in the fossil record for that time, it's exactly what we see. However, that is true mainly of large mammalian species. And even there, there are many species that are very, very ancient. Would you like to learn about that?



Approximately 11,000 years ago a variety of animals went extinct across North America. These were mostly mammals larger than approximately 44 kg (about 100 pounds). Some of the animals that went extinct are well known (like saber-toothed cats, mammoths, and mastodons). Others were less well known animals (like the short-faced skunk and the giant beaver). Some animals went extinct in North America but survived elsewhere, for example, horses and tapirs.

Before this extinction the diversity of large mammals in North America was similar to that of modern Africa. As a result of the extinction, relatively few large mammals are now found in North America.
http://exhibits.museum.state.il.us/exhibits/larson/lp_extinction.html

The Quaternary period saw the extinctions of numerous predominantly megafaunal species, which resulted in a collapse in faunal density and diversity, and the extinction of key ecological strata across the globe. The most prominent event in the Late Pleistocene is differentiated from previous Quaternary pulse extinctions by the widespread absence of ecological succession to replace these extinct species, and the regime shift of previously established faunal relationships and habitats as a consequence. The earliest casualties were incurred at 130,000 BCE (the start of the Late Pleistocene), however the great majority of extinctions in Afro-Eurasia and the Americas occurred during the transition from the Pleistocene to the Holocene epoch (13,000 BCE to 8,000 BCE). However, this extinction wave did not stop at the end of the Pleistocene, but continued, especially on isolated islands, in human-caused extinctions, although there is debate as to whether these should be considered separate events or part of the same event.[1] Among the main causes hypothesized by paleontologists are overkill by the widespread appearance of humans and natural climate change.[2] A notable modern human presence first appeared during the Middle Pleistocene in Africa,[3] and started to establish continuous, permanent populations in Eurasia and Australasia from 120,000 BCE and 63,000 BCE respectively,[4][5] and the Americas from 22,000 BCE.[6][7][8][9] A variant of the former possibility is the second-order predation hypothesis, which focuses more on the indirect damage caused by overcompetition with nonhuman predators. Recent studies have tended to favor the human-overkill theory.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaternary_extinction_event

You've already been shown this once. Keep repeating the wrong answer does not make it right.

You are trying to use the smaller extinction event as an execuse. According to you that is the reason that there are so much gaps, but the article already said, that event 200k+- year ago is not a true extinction even, many species survived, maybe the saber tooth extincted but other cats survived, there are living fossile species that are still alive today and yet they exbit the same gap. Why?
 
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dcalling

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You clearly do not understand what the article is saying. The authors even conclude that the most simple and reasonable explanation for their findings is that gradual evolution is always occuring and that incidences of speciation in relation to most current living day species, occured within the last 100-200 thousand years.

In short, you are sourcing an article that supports darwinian gradualism.

Yes I do, the author is clearly trying to go that way, but the author's opion is not as important as the facts he quoted in the article, that clear boundries exists, and that according to sciense, all things seems to appear 100-200k+- year ago.

Now let's quote the original article again, you can just see how he is trying:
"The simplest interpretation is that life is always evolving," said Stoeckle.
"It is more likely that—at all times in evolution—the animals alive at that point arose relatively recently."
In this view, a species only lasts a certain amount of time before it either evolves into something new or goes extinct.
But he has to acknowledge that this definitely is something that is hard to answer:
The absence of "in-between" species is something that also perplexed Darwin, he said.

And that is correct, if species "only lasts a certain amount of time before it either evolves into something new or goes extinct.", how do you explain all those living fossiles that has lasted millions of years? Unless.... they are all created, and they either last (and has a finite amount of mutations), or extinct.
 
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The Barbarian

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JuravenatorGiven above example, what happened between 4 and 5?

Sorry, don't know what you mean. Can you be more explicit?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juravenator

Given above example, what happened between 4 and 5? How come those "unnessessary feathres" that can't fly and have no other benifits

Just like today, they also provide insulation and are used for display. Flight came much later. Features that are useful for one thing are often adapted later to other uses. Would you like to learn more about that?


You are trying to use the smaller extinction event as an execuse.

As you now realize, the loss of so many species at the pleistocene and quaternary extinctions is consistent with the genetic data we see today, and your guys explained.

According to you that is the reason that there are so much gaps, but the article already said, that event 200k+- year ago is not a true extinction even, many species survived, maybe the saber tooth extincted but other cats survived

News species evolved as old ones went extinct. But as you now see, that's exactly what the genetic data confirms.

there are living fossile species that are still alive today and yet they exbit the same gap.

Not according to your guys. About 10% of the species noted are over 200,000 years old.


Because most species don't last that long, but a few do. Not hard to understand.
 
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Job 33:6

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Yes I do, the author is clearly trying to go that way, but the author's opion is not as important as the facts he quoted in the article, that clear boundries exists, and that according to sciense, all things seems to appear 100-200k+- year ago.

Now let's quote the original article again, you can just see how he is trying:

But he has to acknowledge that this definitely is something that is hard to answer:


And that is correct, if species "only lasts a certain amount of time before it either evolves into something new or goes extinct.", how do you explain all those living fossiles that has lasted millions of years? Unless.... they are all created, and they either last (and has a finite amount of mutations), or extinct.

Ok, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

Thankfully we are the ones publishing the research and your words are just your own.

All the best,
 
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dcalling

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Ok, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

Thankfully we are the ones publishing the research and your words are just your own.

All the best,

Well, seems everytime you can't answer things you throw the above out :)

My queston is simple. if species "only lasts a certain amount of time before it either evolves into something new or goes extinct.", how do you explain all those living fossiles that has lasted millions of years? So on that only you know the above statement is just a assumption (and likely an incorrect one).

Now based on the resarch all things arose about 200k year ago and appears all together. Interesting isn't it?
 
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dcalling

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Sorry, don't know what you mean. Can you be more explicit?


On your picture, what happened between 4 and 5? Any transit between them or they just leaped (or missing or not found)?

Just like today, they also provide insulation and are used for display. Flight came much later. Features that are useful for one thing are often adapted later to other uses. Would you like to learn more about that?


OK, now think about it. Do you agree that it is likely that feathers come in and the wings gradually evolves to have more and more feathers and eventually to the point they can fly? Before that as the wings getting better they provides nothing except dead weight (and air drag), that will put the early non-flight in-between-birds in a big disadvantage. Do you agree?

As you now realize, the loss of so many species at the pleistocene and quaternary extinctions is consistent with the genetic data we see today, and your guys explained.

News species evolved as old ones went extinct. But as you now see, that's exactly what the genetic data confirms.


I know about the smaller extinctions, but remember those are not "true extinction" events. A lot of the animals survived and they all still exihibit the same DNA traits, i.e. true barriers (read the article which tell you that). It has been mentioned multiple times.

Not according to your guys. About 10% of the species noted are over 200,000 years old.
"Not according to your guys. About 10% of the species noted are over 200,000 years old."... I don't remember saying such a thing?
 
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The Barbarian

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On your picture, what happened between 4 and 5? Any transit between them or they just leaped (or missing or not found)?

Quite a few fossils, like Protarchaeopteryx.

Protarchaeopteryx had long legs, and could have been a quick runner. It had well-developed, vaned feathers extended from a relatively short tail; the hands were long and slender, and had three fingers with sharp, curved claws. Its bones were hollow and bird-like, and it possessed a wishbone.[5] At around 1 metre (3.3 ft) in length, it would have been larger than Archaeopteryx.[5] Protarchaeopteryx also had symmetrical feathers on its tail. Since modern birds that have symmetrical feathers are flightless, and the skeletal structure of Protarchaeopteryx would not support flapping flight, it is assumed that it was flightless as well.[6] It has been suggested that it could have had an arboreal lifestyle, jumping from tree limbs and using its forelimbs for a form of parachuting.[7]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protarchaeopteryx

Barbarian, regarding what feathers are for:
Just like today, they also provide insulation and are used for display. Flight came much later. Features that are useful for one thing are often adapted later to other uses. Would you like to learn more about that?

OK, now think about it.

Already have. It's just a fact. Feathers are used in all birds for insulation, and in almost all birds for display as well. Flight came later.

Do you agree that it is likely that feathers come in and the wings gradually evolves to have more and more feathers and eventually to the point they can fly?

Not that simple. You're missing a lot. You see, the motion for flight is also preadapted, as is the respiratory requirement. Would you like to learn how they were adapted long before there were birds?

Before that as the wings getting better they provides nothing except dead weight (and air drag),

No, that's wrong, too. Do you think ostriches have useless wings?

that will put the early non-flight in-between-birds in a big disadvantage.

Nope. For the same reason wings are adaptive for ostriches.

I know about the smaller extinctions, but remember those are not "true extinction" events.

A true extinction event is when at least one species goes extinct. The Quaternary and Pleistocene extinctions had many more. A majority of large mammals, for example, went extinct in those, as the environment changed.

A lot of the animals survived

At least 10% of living species show that they've been in existence more than 200,000 years, according to the research you mentioned. That's a lot. And as you learned, it effectively rules out YE creationism.

It has been mentioned multiple times.

Yep. An impassible problem for YE creationism.

"Not according to your guys. About 10% of the species noted are over 200,000 years old."... I don't remember saying such a thing?

The study you cited did. Only about 90% of living species are younger than that. If YE creationism were true, 100% of them would be.
 
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The Barbarian

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My queston is simple. if species "only lasts a certain amount of time before it either evolves into something new or goes extinct.", how do you explain all those living fossiles that has lasted millions of years?

The research you cited (but apparently didn't read) points that out. Most species persist for perhaps 200,000 years, but some last much longer. Darwin pointed this out himself; where a well-adapted population exists in an environment where the selective pressures remain reasonably constant for that populations, natural selection should prevent evolution of that population.

So on that only you know the above statement is just a assumption (and likely an incorrect one).

You're merely assuming that all populations will have the same selective pressures. It doesn't work that way. For example, almost all coelacanths are extinct. Only two deep sea species remain, and they are not found in the fossil record, having evolved rather recently.

Now based on the resarch all things arose about 200k year ago

Not according to the paper you cited. About 90% did. The other 10% are much older than that.

The study's most startling result, perhaps, is that nine out of 10 species on Earth today, including humans, came into being 100,000 to 200,000 years ago.
https://phys.org/news/2018-05-gene-survey-reveals-facets-evolution.html#jCp

Interesting isn't it?

Yep.
 
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The Barbarian

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Technically speaking, it's not even a theory. It's an untested hypothesis.

If you think so, you don't know very much about it. Would you like to learn some of the tests that have confirmed evolutionary theory?

First, you might make sure that you know the 4 points of Darwinian theory, and the way the Modern Synthesis added genetics to Darwin's points. What do you think those are?
 
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Phil 1:21

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If you think so, you don't know very much about it. Would you like to learn some of the tests that have confirmed evolutionary theory?
Sure, please provide a link to the tests using scientific method that have proven "evolutionary theory." ;)
 
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Job 33:6

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Job 33:6

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And you believe that does what was asked how? ;)

Well,

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/Biological+evolution
2. Biology
a. Change in the genetic composition of a population during successive generations, often resulting in thedevelopment of new species. The mechanisms of evolution include natural selection acting on the genetic variation among individuals, mutation, migration, and genetic drift.


The experiment involves the monitoring of successive generations of bacteria, the experiment directly observed (and is still observing) the fixation of beneficial mutations which increased fitness of the organisms examined, which further allowed those organisms to out-compete their ancestors via natural selection through competition in which they utilized their newly mutated beneficial traits.

It is, by the definition above, observation of biological evolution.
 
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Phil 1:21

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Well,

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/Biological+evolution
2. Biology
a. Change in the genetic composition of a population during successive generations, often resulting in thedevelopment of new species. The mechanisms of evolution include natural selection acting on the genetic variation among individuals, mutation, migration, and genetic drift.


The experiment involves the monitoring of successive generations of bacteria, the experiment directly observed (and is still observing) the fixation of beneficial mutations which increased fitness of the organisms examined, which further allowed those organisms to out-compete their ancestors via natural selection through competition in which they utilized their newly mutated beneficial traits.

It is, by the definition above, observation of biological evolution.
Now connect that dot to the one where people evolved from the primordial soup and you'll have a winner. ;)
 
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Job 33:6

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Now connect that dot to the one where people evolved from the primordial soup and you'll have a winner. ;)

Do you have a technically accurate response?

You asked for a publication proving biological evolution, I provided both a definition and a publication directly matching that definition which proved biological evolution to be true.
 
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