Salvation is eternal, if God knows you, He always knows you

sdowney717 · Jul 11, 2018

EmSw said:
God knows each one of us entirely. He know us better than we know ourselves. To say God doesn't know someone intimately, that is, from love, is bordering on heresy.

To know there means as in a relationship of love. To know them personally, they know Him too.

What your saying is to know about them, and all their ways and doings.

John 10:13-15 New King James Version (NKJV)
13 The hireling flees because he is a hireling and does not care about the sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. 15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.

Jesus introduces the concept that He knows the Father, and the Father knows Him joining that with He knows His sheep and His sheep know Him. One big and happy family of God. And he gives up His life for His sheep.

Dan the deacon · Jul 11, 2018

sdowney717 said:
To know there means as in a relationship of love. To know them personally, they know Him too.

What your saying is to know about them, and all their ways and doings.

John 10:13-15 New King James Version (NKJV)
13 The hireling flees because he is a hireling and does not care about the sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. 15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.

Jesus introduces the concept that He knows the Father, and the Father knows Him joining that with He knows His sheep and His sheep know Him. One big and happy family of God. And he gives up His life for His sheep.

Truth.

EmSw · Jul 11, 2018

Dan the deacon said:
Some apparently still don't understand the word knew.

Do you mean in the way John relates?

1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

EmSw · Jul 11, 2018

sdowney717 said:
To know there means as in a relationship of love. To know them personally, they know Him too.

What your saying is to know about them, and all their ways and doings.

John 10:13-15 New King James Version (NKJV)
13 The hireling flees because he is a hireling and does not care about the sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. 15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.

Jesus introduces the concept that He knows the Father, and the Father knows Him joining that with He knows His sheep and His sheep know Him. One big and happy family of God. And he gives up His life for His sheep.

I'm glad you mentioned not only Jesus knowing us, but we knowing Him also. It is a reciprocal relationship. The notion of Jesus knowing us also includes us knowing Him.

And as John says, is anyone says they know Him, and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in them. So our relationship with Jesus depends upon us keeping His commandments.

Speaking of Jesus knowing the Father, we also read this from Jesus -

John 8:55
Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

So we see that knowing Him involves more than just lip service.

EmSw · Jul 11, 2018

Marvin Knox said:
Now you are accusing Jesus of heresy?

"Then I will tell them, 'I never knew you. Depart from me, you who work iniquity." Matthew 7:23

Heresy? Where did you come up with that?

If Jesus never knew them, then they weren't keeping His commandments.

1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

These people not only worked iniquity, but they claimed to know Him, but didn't keep His commandments. Since they didn't keep His commandments, Jesus never knew them.

Dan the deacon · Jul 11, 2018

EmSw said:
Do you mean in the way John relates?

1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Dan the deacon · Jul 11, 2018

I mean it is an intimate loving relationship

Dan the deacon · Jul 11, 2018

sdowney717 said:
Also, what makes a good tree good, it's not a bad tree, lol.
Your never both, your one or the other.
A bad tree is one who follows Satan, the beast, is unsaved, not born again.

As Christians we are this here, and this is a wonderful mystery, Christ and His bride, which is us.

1 Corinthians 6:16-17 New King James Version (NKJV)
16 Or do you not know that he who is joined to a harlot is one body with her? For “the two,” He says, “shall become one flesh.” 17 But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.

One spirit with Him, not one flesh or one mind, we are intimately joined to Him with an unbreakable bond of love spiritualy. But we can be messed up in our thinking, thoughts, mind, body. But spiritually in Him we are at peace. And it is our spirits that are saved. We do not have our flesh saved, we get a new glorified body someday, but this old body is dead, as God told Adam, dieing you will die. But for believers He made us alive who were dead, and that means spiritually alive to God. Since we joined one spirit with Him, we then have the same eternal life He has, in the Spirit.

2 John 1:3 Grace, mercy, and peace will be with you from God the Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.

Calvinists and Armenians both have it wrong.

Apologetic_Warrior · Jul 11, 2018

EmSw said:
Apparently you aren't familiar with what has been said to me by Calvinists. I have been condemned to hell, I have been called one not saved, and other unChristian names. And that includes the person to whom I was responding. But I didn't see you say anything to him about his words to me.

I am sorry you've been hurt, I am sorry he's been hurt, we've all been hurt. I was not defending him, rather a group, namely Calvinists. One characteristic of a Christian is forgiveness, and as difficult as it may be sometimes, we really should forgive one another, just as the Lord has forgiven us. We should be gracious to one another, just as the Lord has been gracious to us. And this should be more evident among us, than the forgiveness and graciousness we extend to the world when the worldly persecute and revile us for our faith in Christ.

I am sorry for being selective and you would be right that I am not familiar with everything that been said between the two of you, but please do not mistake a few for the whole. It would be like calling all Catholics pedophiles because so many priests have been found to be pedophiles with decades of covering up and others in the know. But this would be a very wrong generalization and characterization of Catholics. There are wolves in every branch of Christianity, in every denomination, and they do not care how they make their particular faith appear to those on the outside. There are false Calvinists, and there are true Calvinists, please make the distinction, that's all I am asking. Perhaps it would help to read from and learn about a Calvinist such as C.H. Spurgeon, a lover of souls, and wanted nothing more than to win souls to Christ. Or read and listen to a Calvinist such as R.C. Sproul, a very kind and gracious grandfatherly man, another lover of souls. I could go on but I hope you see the point. God bless.

EmSw · Jul 11, 2018

Dan the deacon said:
I mean it is an intimate loving relationship

John uses that 'know' in his passage. If you don't keep His commandments, and say you intimately love the Lord, John says you are a liar and the truth is not in you.

EmSw · Jul 11, 2018

Apologetic_Warrior said:
I am sorry you've been hurt, I am sorry he's been hurt, we've all been hurt. I was not defending him, rather a group, namely Calvinists. One characteristic of a Christian is forgiveness, and as difficult as it may be sometimes, we really should forgive one another, just as the Lord has forgiven us. We should be gracious to one another, just as the Lord has been gracious to us. And this should be more evident among us, than the forgiveness and graciousness we extend to the world when the worldly persecute and revile us for our faith in Christ.

Oh, I'm not hurt, but rather, disappointed. I do forgive any derogatory language used against me. I've been around all kind of 'church' people; I seen it all. Nothing surprises me as far as the way anyone acts towards another.

Apologetic_Warrior said:
I am sorry for being selective and you would be right that I am not familiar with everything that been said between the two of you, but please do not mistake a few for the whole. It would be like calling all Catholics pedophiles because so many priests have been found to be pedophiles with decades of covering up and others in the know. But this would be a very wrong generalization and characterization of Catholics. There are wolves in every branch of Christianity, in every denomination, and they do not care how they make their particular faith appear to those on the outside. There are false Calvinists, and there are true Calvinists, please make the distinction, that's all I am asking. Perhaps it would help to read from and learn about a Calvinist such as C.H. Spurgeon, a lover of souls, and wanted nothing more than to win souls to Christ. Or read and listen to a Calvinist such as R.C. Sproul, a very kind and gracious grandfatherly man, another lover of souls. I could go on but I hope you see the point. God bless.

No need to be sorry. I take very little offense at anyone anymore. I know everyone acts the way they believe. In the end, it's between them and God, and I am not involved at all.

You could probably ask most Calvinist on this board who are familiar with my writings, and you wouldn't get an uplifting response. I don't try to judge them if they are false or not.

I have read a little from the authors you listed. I agree with some of their views, and disagree with others. I don't totally look at what they believe, but rather, how they act towards others. If you believe wrong, you will act wrong.

By your kind actions, you have shown what is in your heart. And I appreciate it.

Marvin Knox · Jul 12, 2018

Marvin Knox said:
Now you are accusing Jesus of heresy?

EmSw said:
Heresy? Where did you come up with that?

EmSw said:
......To say God doesn't know someone intimately, that is, from love, is bordering on heresy.

"Then I will tell them, 'I never knew you. Depart from me, you who work iniquity." Matthew 7:23
Capeesh?

You can never say that I haven't been extremely patient with you.

EmSw said:
If Jesus never knew them, then they weren't keeping His commandments.
1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
These people not only worked iniquity, but they claimed to know Him, but didn't keep His commandments. Since they didn't keep His commandments, Jesus never knew them.

Exactly so.

This thread is about the eternal security of people Jesus has known.

You are using a verse which tells us that Jesus "never" knew particular people to show that Jesus will reject people He "has" known because they don't keep His commandments.

Capeesh?

EmSw said:
The Lord has blessed me with enough intelligence to know right from wrong, and how to live the way He desires.

Apparently He hasn't blessed you with the ability to track a simple concept.

You joined me here in this thread by saying that my quoting Jesus (when He said that there will be people He never knew) was a denial of the omniscience of God - a ridiculous charge on the face of it.

I began my association with you long ago believing that you made ridiculous and what appear to be dim witted statements because you were a bit slow.

I have since learned that it is really a technique of yours to confuse the issues and to obscure the fact that you do not believe the basic tenets of the faith such as the atoning and substitutionary blood sacrifice of Jesus Christ at Calvary for our sins and the inspiration of the words of the Apostle Paul - let alone that Jesus will never allow the condemnation those who have passed from death to life.

EmSw · Jul 12, 2018

Marvin Knox said:
"Then I will tell them, 'I never knew you. Depart from me, you who work iniquity." Matthew 7:23
Capeesh?

You can never say that I haven't been extremely patient with you.

If I am here to show you patience, I guess you will have to accept that.

2 Peter 1
5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

And once you have given all diligence to patience, add godliness, then brotherly kindness, and finally charity.

Marvin Knox said:
Exactly so.

This thread is about the eternal security of people Jesus has known.

You are using a verse which tells us that Jesus "never" knew particular people to show that Jesus will reject people He "has" known because they don't keep His commandments.

No Marvin, that is not what I said. I said if Jesus never knew them, then they never kept His commandments.

Marvin Knox said:
Apparently He hasn't blessed you with the ability to track a simple concept.

You joined me here in this thread by saying that my quoting Jesus (when He said that there will be people He never knew) was a denial of the omniscience of God - a ridiculous charge on the face of it.

Oh, I've been blessed beyond measure.

If the word 'know' is an intimate relationship, then it does not denote lack of omniscience. I'm sorry if I charged you with that.

He never knew these people, that is, He never had an intimate relationship with them, which John tells us that intimate relationship comes with those who keep His commandments. Those who say they know Him, that is, have an intimate relationship with Him and do not keep His commandments are liars, and do not have the truth in them.

As you know, a relationship is a two-way street. Both must give something in a relationship.

Marvin Knox said:
I began my association with you long ago believing that you made ridiculous and what appear to be dim witted statements because you were a bit slow.

I have since learned that it is really a technique of yours to confuse the issues and to obscure the fact that you do not believe the basic tenets of the faith such as the atoning and substitutionary blood sacrifice of Jesus Christ at Calvary for our sins and the inspiration of the words of the Apostle Paul - let alone that Jesus will never allow the condemnation those who have passed from death to life.

If Jesus gave a substitutionary sacrifice in your view, then a relationship with Him would include you giving something to Him. That would be keeping His commandments. Jesus even said if you love Him, keep His commandments.

Keeping His commandments is an option for everyone. They can keep or they can disobey them. However, those who love Him and want to know Him, there is no option; that person must obey them. In this way, Jesus will never tell you that He never knew you.

Marvin Knox · Jul 12, 2018

EmSw said:
Are you saying there are some people Jesus doesn't know? Did they slip into existence without being noticed by Jesus? Tell me Marvin, who isn't known by Jesus?.........................People who say there are people Jesus doesn't know, lose all credibility in my eyes.

This is your original post. If your reference to "slipping in existence without being noticed" by God doesn't have to do with His sovereignty and omniscience - I don't know what does.

But - again knowing you pretty well and yet giving you the benefit of the doubt - if you say it had nothing to do with that we can work with that from now on out.

Perhaps if you didn't try so hard to be clever and flippant you would express yourself better.

By the way - as you should know full well by now being corrected many times and being told exactly what I believe and do not believe - I do not claim to be a "Calvinist".

If I rebuke you openly it is only to obey the scriptures which tell me to do so and not as a so called "Calvinist".

I could it better and with less sarcasm - no doubt.

Dan the deacon · Jul 12, 2018

Keeping His commandments is an option for everyone. They can keep or they can disobey them. However, those who love Him and want to know Him, there is no option; that person must obey them. In this way, Jesus will never tell you that He never knew you.[/QUOTE]

He never knew these people, that is, He never had an intimate relationship with them, which John tells us that intimate relationship comes with those who keep His commandments.

As you know, a relationship is a two-way street. Both must give something in a relationship.

If Jesus gave a substitutionary sacrifice in your view, then a relationship with Him would include you giving something to Him. That would be keeping His commandments. Jesus even said if you love Him, keep His commandments.

Keeping His commandments is an option for everyone. They can keep or they can disobey them. However, those who love Him and want to know Him, there is no option; that person must obey them. In this way, Jesus will never tell you that He never knew you.[/QUOTE]
So how's it going keeping those commandments? Any luck?

Salvation is eternal, if God knows you, He always knows you

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