Talking to a Contradiction

Jack L Palmer · Jul 10, 2018

Soul-searching said:
It does not matter what your friend believes in, you should be able to have a friendship with him regardless of his belief since you say you love him so much. Since it´s faith and not fact we can´t say to others that they are wrong, because you could easily be the one who is wrong in the end. Let him be him, as you expect him to let you be you, try to reverse things. I bet you would not like if someone tried to convince you what to believe or what not to believe. You let your ways overshine his, if that is love, i doubt it because love is selfless.

This. Sometimes we, as Christians, divide ourselves by standing by what we're against rather than standing by what we are for. Certain doctrines, cultures and traditions my be different with an Episcopal church than a Baptist church, but both churches there to edify God. They may do it a little differently, but that's not really the focus, or the point. You can stand to learn a lot from each other because your differences, as a matter of fact.

Soul-searching · Jul 11, 2018

Jack L Palmer said:
This. Sometimes we, as Christians, divide ourselves by standing by what we're against rather than standing by what we are for. Certain doctrines, cultures and traditions my be different with an Episcopal church than a Baptist church, but both churches there to edify God. They may do it a little differently, but that's not really the focus, or the point. You can stand to learn a lot from each other because your differences, as a matter of fact.

Exactly! the reason for life is learning. We need to lay down our ego and find value in each others differences. Differences are beautiful! We forget unity because we let our ego have a life of it´s own. Funny that so many people who have the same view and faith can´t even unite, i think it says it all about what people we really are and how far we have to travel to get where we are supposed to be, if we ever get there.

Andrew77 · Jul 11, 2018

Karin12414 said:
So I have a friend that has a beautiful passion for God, but I can't help but feel that the denomination he is a part of (Episcopal) is blocking him from fulfilling his true potential in Christ.

I'm not trying to say anything bad about the denomination. I don't know much about it, but what my friend has told me makes me think it is basically Catholic.

Now, the issue I think he is having is, the way the Episcopal Church is set up, they have their own system of government and there is a lot of bureaucracy going on. He was going on and on about the hierarchy of the Church and the history of it, but there was nothing that felt like it was for God. I can't help but feel that he is in it for the wrong reasons. Like it's a competition to be with the Church with the craziest history and government.

I tried to invite him to my Baptist Church for one day, because I feel his passion and core beliefs really would fit there, but he said he didn't like that Baptist Churches followed too many traditions -_-

I don't know what to do with this. I care for and love him so much, but I worry this denomination is clouding the Truth from him.

I'm sorry, but when the entire Church government is focusing on whether or not to make God non-gender in all their Bible's, I feel like they've completely missed the point of Faith.

How can I talk to him without triggering a defensive mechanism in him? I don't want to put down anyone's denomination or anything, but it hurts me to see misdirected passion going to waste

So, I know you said that you are trying not to say anything bad about the denomination, but you did in this post several times.

I would encourage you to not do that. Let Jesus deal with his church. Let him take care of the Episcopal Church. You know what Jesus said, right? Be careful or he'll take away the light, and the church will die.

If there is a problem with any group of Christians, Jesus will deal with them.

As for talking to this guy, any time you talk negatively about any group, people of that group will get defensive.

Unless he specifically asks your opinion, I would keep it to yourself.

Until you are married, you are not in the position to try and make him see the error of his ways. It's not your job to help him reach his full potential (not even sure what that means).

You are doing damage to your relationship, not help him.

And I have to be honest, I think you need to move on, and find someone that already believes whatever you believe. Not find a guy and try and change him into what you want.

Just open honest advice. You can do what you want.

Karin12414 · Jul 11, 2018

Thank you guys.

I do apologize if I offended anyone with the way I stated things. I will pray for my friend. I know I can't control him and to try is wrong. There are things I don't agree with when it comes to his church, and I stand by how I feel, but I won't let it get between our friendship.

GingerBeer · Jul 11, 2018

Isn't the quote ""In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity" ~St. Augustine" from a German theologian?

Rupertus Meldenius said:
In Essentials Unity, In Non-Essentials Liberty, In All Things Charity

Philip Schaff, the distinguished nineteenth-century church historian, calls the saying in our title “the watchword of Christian peacemakers” (History of the Christian Church, vol. 7, p. 650). Often attributed to great theologians such as Augustine, it comes from an otherwise undistinguished German Lutheran theologian of the early seventeenth century, Rupertus Meldenius. The phrase occurs in a tract on Christian unity written (circa 1627) during the Thirty Years War (1618–1648), a bloody time in European history in which religious tensions played a significant role. The saying has found great favor among subsequent writers such as Richard Baxter, and has since been adopted as a motto by the Moravian Church of North America and the Evangelical Presbyterian Church. Might it serve us well as a motto for every church and for every denomination today? https://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/essentials-unity-non-essentials-liberty-all-things/

Gwen-is-new! · Jul 11, 2018

Karin12414 said:
I know that...

My point is, God being male or female DOES NOT MATTER when it comes to eternal life and salvation. The fact that an entire Church Government is choosing to focus on that as opposed to going out and spreading the gospel is extremely worrisome. It should be worrisome to all Christians because ultimately, in the eyes of non believers, we are all the same.

So, do we hold our fellow Christians accountable? Or not?

They are blessed to have you as a friend! I agree it sounds like they are forgetting the essentials and the main thing.

I let an episcopal minister convince my in laws that the Bible never says marriage is between a man and a women and convinced the congregation to vote against preserving the definition of marriage in my state of NC. Try as gently as possible to get him him to study these topics on his own (or with you) in the Word.

Gwen-is-new! · Jul 11, 2018

Kiterius said:
One thing we don't do is trash talk an entire denomination Karin.

Trash talk?! you gotta be kidding. Karin couldn’t have presented this any more gently humbly lovingly .. her love for the Lord and this person flies off the posts. You must have a pet peeve

JohnC2 · Jul 11, 2018

My friend (The OP). The one thing I have learned having "Discussions" with other Christians is that everybody has a different outlook and a different perspective on things.....

That's simply a given....

I think we would agree that Jesus stated "Yardstick" is "You know the tree by the fruit". You don't get Apples off of a thistle... You don't get grapes off of poison ivy.

And so don't worry if you see "Good fruit"... Because "The tree is good".... Even if you disagree with stated viewpoints on this or that - you know the Agency of the Holy Spirit is present to take care of things.....

If you can do 1 thing..
Encourage your friend to read his bible. Cheer lead him with the blessings and understanding he will get by just reading the bible for himself... Not commentaries, prayer books, sponsored excerpts, or books about this or that - the actual Bible...

FatalHeart · Jul 11, 2018

So last I knew there was a Holy Spirit capable of discerning between Christians. I don't think disunity is from God as it says factions come from the sinful nature and Jesus himself prayed that his church would be one as he is one with the Father, so. In that being said I sent one of my peons after a certain preacher in the middle east, trying to coax him to re-evaluate the whole woman preacher and teacher thing among the church body because he tends to be a sensationalist that is afraid of not making money, so he doesn't want to present himself the wrong way to those he could win over. I told her to just tell him God would decide between us and to talk to him about the whole thing. Not even half way into the conversation a man comes up and their interaction with him proves to him what I was saying. Since I have seen God work very powerfully and clearly extremely often in my attempts to evangelize and set things up correctly in the world, I have no other cause than to believe that all these denominational disputes and bitter hate between each other is nothing more than a resistance to the Spirit and a stopping up of ears. God is one. There are a great number of liars and lies out there who serve their own causes for comfort and covetousness. But God is one. Rest assured, if you are correct in what you know, present it kindly and with humility and let God decide between you. He may even move to show you where you are wrong, and wouldn't that be exciting? <3

ViaCrucis · Jul 11, 2018

Karin12414 said:
I agree.

God the Father impregnated (something women can't do) Mary with the Holy Spirit.
God the Son was Jesus, we all know he was a man.

That's not true. God didn't impregnate Mary with the Holy Spirit.

Mary--a virgin--conceived Jesus by the power of the Holy Spirit. She became pregnant without being impregnated. That's why the Scripture says the Holy Spirit would come upon her and overshadow her, and she would conceive her Child.

-CryptoLutheran

Kiterius · Jul 11, 2018

Gwen-is-new! said:
Trash talk?! you gotta be kidding. Karin couldn’t have presented this any more gently humbly lovingly .. her love for the Lord and this person flies off the posts. You must have a pet peeve

I never have a pet-peeve. Love to you too Gwenny.

Phil 1:21 · Jul 11, 2018

Karin12414 said:
How can I talk to him without triggering a defensive mechanism in him? I don't want to put down anyone's denomination or anything, but it hurts me to see misdirected passion going to waste

"Faithful are the wounds of a friend; profuse are the kisses of an enemy." Proverbs 27:6

Karin12414 · Jul 11, 2018

ViaCrucis said:
That's not true. God didn't impregnate Mary with the Holy Spirit.

Mary--a virgin--conceived Jesus by the power of the Holy Spirit. She became pregnant without being impregnated. That's why the Scripture says the Holy Spirit would come upon her and overshadow her, and she would conceive her Child.

-CryptoLutheran

lol my bad. This is kind of what I was trying to say, but I ultimately could not think of a way to say it this beautifully

The point is, God doesn't care if we call Him male or female, He is above that. When you are standing at His feet ready for judgement, He isn't going to care about that. The fact that an entire church government would decide "This is what we need to focus on RIGHT NOW" as opposed to focusing on true Gospel is scary to me.

My Church Group has been getting into false prophets lately in regards to the "Wheat's" and the "Tare's" so this would probably be the main source of my concern.

2PhiloVoid · Jul 11, 2018

Karin12414 said:
lol my bad. This is kind of what I was trying to say, but I ultimately could not think of a way to say it this beautifully

The point is, God doesn't care if we call Him male or female, He is above that. When you are standing at His feet ready for judgement, He isn't going to care about that. The fact that an entire church government would decide "This is what we need to focus on RIGHT NOW" as opposed to focusing on true Gospel is scary to me.

My Church Group has been getting into false prophets lately in regards to the "Wheat's" and the "Tare's" so this would probably be the main source of my concern.

Just keep in mind that in the parable of the Wheat and the Tares, the owner is concerned over the fact that by trying to rip out the Tares, the process might also uproot some of the Wheat. So, we need to be quite discerning in how we think we should "advocate" for the cause of political righteousness in Christ.

Karin12414 · Jul 11, 2018

2PhiloVoid said:
Just keep in mind that in the parable of the Wheat and the Tare's, the owner is concerned over the fact that by trying to rip out the Tares, the process might also uproot some of the Wheat. So, we need to be quite discerning in how we think we should "advocate" for the cause of political righteousness in Christ.

Yeah, I agree. I just need to stop being such a control freak lol

My friend has a great heart and passion for Christ, so if he is, Christ will show him the way. I have to remember that, no matter how hard it is

2PhiloVoid · Jul 11, 2018

Karin12414 said:
Yeah, I agree. I just need to stop being such a control freak lol

My friend has a great heart and passion for Christ, so if he is, Christ will show him the way. I have to remember that, no matter how hard it is

I don't think you're a control freak, I think your a Christian gal who is concerned.

Kiterius · Jul 11, 2018

Karin12414 said:
Yeah, I agree. I just need to stop being such a control freak lol

My friend has a great heart and passion for Christ, so if he is, Christ will show him the way. I have to remember that, no matter how hard it is

Agreed - you do need to stop being a control freak.

Hammster · Jul 11, 2018

ADMIN HAT ON

Closed. This has turned into a debate.

ADMIN HAT OFF

Talking to a Contradiction

Member

Active Member

The walking accident

Nothing is impossible for my God!

Cool and refreshing with a kick!

The Lord is my rock!

The Lord is my rock!

Active Member

Wisdom's Associate

Confessional Lutheran

CF's Favorite Member

Well-Known Member

Nothing is impossible for my God!

Get my point, Web-Maker ???

Nothing is impossible for my God!

Get my point, Web-Maker ???

CF's Favorite Member

Psalm 144:1

Similar threads