The Trinity?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Dave L

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 28, 2018
15,549
5,876
USA
✟580,140.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Here is a controversial question:

Is the Holy Spirit really equal in glory to the Father and Son?

The Holy Spirit does not seem to have the same freedom of expression as the Father and Son.

"But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on His own; He will speak only what He hears, and He will tell you what is yet to come. He will bring glory to Me by taking from what is Mine and making it known to you. All that belongs to the Father is Mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is Mine and make it known to you.” – (John 16:12-15).

The Holy Spirit does not speak on His own; He only speaks what He has received from the Father and Son: "He will not speak on His own; He will speak only what He hears"

The Holy Spirit does not bring glory to Himself; He only brings glory to the Father and Son: "He will bring glory to Me by taking from what is Mine and making it known to you."

The Holy Spirit does not take from His own; He only receives from what belongs to the Father and Son: "All that belongs to the Father is Mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is Mine and make it known to you."

The Holy Spirit does not declare Himself, He only declares what the Father and Son expresses through Him, and He only declares it when the Father and Son wills it.

“I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Counselor to be with you forever – the Spirit of truth…I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.” (John 14:16-18).
Just as Paul describes the body of Christ, each member has a different function. Some are less noticeable but just as important. Others are more noticeable but still equal in truth.
 
Upvote 0

DeaconDean

γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον
Jul 19, 2005
22,183
2,677
61
Gastonia N.C. (Piedmont of N.C.)
✟100,334.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
John 6:38-40
For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me; and this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up at the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in him should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 1:15
15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.‘ “

John 8:58
“I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!

Colossians 1:17
He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Hebrews 1:1-2
1 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways,
2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.

None of your scriptures says God "created" Jesus Christ.

But my scripture refutes all:

"he that hath seen me hath seen the Father;" -Jn. 14:9 (KJV)

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
Upvote 0

DeaconDean

γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον
Jul 19, 2005
22,183
2,677
61
Gastonia N.C. (Piedmont of N.C.)
✟100,334.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Are you saying God has three forms?

If you take water and heat it up, making steam, does it cease to be water?

If you take water, and freeze it, does it cease to be water?

Steam, and ice can be traced back to their original form...water.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
Upvote 0

Radagast

comes and goes
Site Supporter
Dec 10, 2003
23,821
9,817
✟312,047.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I know its a bad way to put it but the best example of how I came to know it is through water.

Water appears in three (3) distinct forms:
  1. water
  2. steam
  3. ice (snow)
Three different forms, but still the same thing.

That's the heresy of MODALISM, Patrick.

 
Upvote 0

Colter

Member
Nov 9, 2004
8,711
1,406
60
✟92,791.00
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
Are there alternative explanations of the Trinity other than the one defined by the Nicene Creed?
Yes! That God is Triune and the Trinity is the creator of our creator Son. In other words, Jesus is a son of the Trinity, not the third person. The idea that 1/3 of the trinity left and became a baby for experiential reasons doesn't work. Jesus achieved "all power and authority has been given to me" therefore...….."
 
Upvote 0

DeaconDean

γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον
Jul 19, 2005
22,183
2,677
61
Gastonia N.C. (Piedmont of N.C.)
✟100,334.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
That's the heresy of MODALISM, Patrick.

What did I say?

DeaconDean said:
I know its a bad way to put it

Can anybody, period, give a sufficient explanation/example of the "trinity?

No! I rest my case.

"VII. THE THREE REVEALED DISTINCTLY.

The scriptural proofs of the personality and divinity of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit having now been considered, it is proper to notice a few passages of Scripture in which the Three are revealed distinctly, by being mentioned, or manifested together. [See others under V. 2, (5), p. 132.]

1. At the baptism of Christ are seen the Son, who has just been baptized, and the "Spirit of God descending as a dove," while, from Heaven above, [and therefore from the Father and not from the Spirit, who is thus manifested distinctly from the Father,] is heard "a voice," "saying, this is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." Matt. 3: 17.

2. An equally plain distinction is set forth in the language of Christ, Matt. 28:19, in which he commanded baptism to be performed "into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost." This act of baptism is such as to involve the divinity as well as the personality of the Three, for it is an act of worship such as can be paid to God only; it is a profession of faith in God and his righteousness, which can be due to God only; and it is a pledge of fealty, such as God has plainly taught he will share with no other.

3. In our Lord's last discourse he promises to send "the Comforter," "even the Holy Spirit," "from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father." Here the Son sends, the Spirit is sent, and the Spirit proceeds from the Father. He is also referred to as one "whom the Father will send in my name." See John 14:26, and 15:26.

4. The apostle Paul evidently refers to this same Three, when he writes the Corinthians of "the same Spirit," "the same Lord," and "the same God." 1 Cor. 12: 4-6.

5. The benediction, with which Paul closes his second epistle to the Corinthians, also presents unitedly, yet separately, the same Three; certain blessings are invoked, but with no apparent distinction of rank among those of whom they are asked. If there be any prominence, it is given the rather to the Son than to the Father.

VIII. THESE THREE ARE ONE GOD.

Our definition states that these Three are revealed as without division of nature, essence, or being. It is not intended to indicate, by the use of these three words, any wide distinction between them. They are nearly alike. Yet some distinction exists. By nature is meant that peculiar character of being which makes one kind of being to differ from another. Thus we speak of the divine nature, or the angelic nature, or the human nature, or the brute nature; meaning that peculiarity of life, and character, and personal condition, which makes a God, or an angel, or a man, or a brute. By essence is meant, that peculiarity, in the nature itself, which constitutes what is necessary to its existence, so that we cannot say, in the absence of that essence, that such a nature exists. Take away from human nature that which is its essential quality, and it must cease to be human nature. Being is the essence of any nature becoming actually existent in that nature. In God nature and essence must be identical, because everything in the nature of God is necessary to his existence, and consequently the nature can neither be greater nor less than the essence; indeed they must be the same. Neither can being be separated from the nature and essence of God, though it is not identical with them. The necessity of his actual existence is something inherent in his nature. There could be no such nature without necessarily involving the existence of some person or persons in it.

When it is affirmed, therefore, that there is no "division of nature, essence, or being," all that is meant is simply that there is but one God; that such is the divine nature that it cannot be multiplied, or divided, or distributed, any more than God can be thus divided in his omnipresence with all things. The divine nature is so possessed, by each of the persons in the Trinity, that neither has his own separate divine nature, but each subsists in one divine nature, common to the three. Otherwise the three persons would be three Gods. So also, in that divine nature, its essential quality is not divided in its relation through the nature to the persons. Were this so, there would be three separate parts of the divine nature. But that this cannot be, is manifest from the identity in God of nature and essence. That it is not so, is declared by the Scriptures, when they teach that there is but one God. In God there is also but one divine being, because there is but one divine essence and nature. There is but one that can have actuality of existence. The being of person, not being identical with that of nature, a fact which is true of all natures, created or uncreated, the unity of the nature, and of the essence does not forbid plurality of persons. The threeness of the persons, therefore, does not destroy the unity of the nature or essence, and consequently, not that of the being of God.

The Scriptures teach everywhere the unity of God explicitly and emphatically. There can be no doubt that they reveal a God that is exclusively one. But their other statements, which we have been examining, should assure us that they also teach that there are three divine persons. It is this peculiar twofold teaching, which is expressed by the word "trinity." The revelation to us, is not that of tritheism or three Gods; nor of triplicity, which is threefoldness, and would involve composition, and be contrary to the simplicity of God; nor of mere manifestation of one person in three forms, which is opposed to the revealed individuality of the persons; but it is well expressed by the word trinity, which is declarative, not simply of threeness, but of three-oneness. That this word is not found in Scripture is no objection to it, when the doctrine, expressed by it, is so clearly set forth."

Source

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
Upvote 0

Radagast

comes and goes
Site Supporter
Dec 10, 2003
23,821
9,817
✟312,047.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
How about this analogy. Like any other it can't penetrate the mystery of God.

The sun is the Father. The rays of light are the Son coming down to earth. The Holy Spirit is the warmth felt on your face.

That's in the video I (and someone else) posted too. It's the heresy of Arianism, since it denies that the Son and the Holy Spirit are fully God.
 
Upvote 0

DeaconDean

γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον
Jul 19, 2005
22,183
2,677
61
Gastonia N.C. (Piedmont of N.C.)
✟100,334.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
[QUOTE="Radagast, post: 72928567, member: 20522]if they don't accept that Jesus was the eternal Second Person of the Trinity incarnate, then they are not a Christian.[/QUOTE]

Isn't that what was said on the very first page of this thread? "God "created" Jesus Christ, just He did everything else?

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Paidiske

Clara bonam audax
Site Supporter
Apr 25, 2016
34,225
19,070
44
Albury, Australia
Visit site
✟1,506,245.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
red-strawberry-hat-wool-beret-girls-winter-wear20667.jpg

MOD HAT ON
This thread will remain closed.
Debating the Nicene Creed is not allowed in any Christians-Only forum on CF.

MOD HAT OFF
 
  • Informative
Reactions: drjean
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.