The Homosexuality Issue

NBB · Jul 10, 2018

hedrick said:
As you probably know, we don't really know what he word they translate as "homosexual" meant. The ESV translators have made a guess.

Every version that i looked had something clearly in the lines of homosexuality in them.

Hank77 · Jul 10, 2018

Kevin Snow said:
The gospel is preached in the world. The word of God for the training of the righteous is preached in the church. The church is NOT the place of evangelism but is the place of discipleship of BELIEVERS.

Read my blog post here about the church. It will explain a lot of what we have mistaken in our day:

https://www.christianforums.com/blogs/the-church-doesnt-justify-the-ministry.58625/

Rom_10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Drought of the Heart · Jul 10, 2018

2 Timothy 3

1stcenturylady · Jul 10, 2018

hedrick said:
That's correct. Like most in the Methodist and Presbyterian churches, I normally accept the conclusions of medical and social science research. But even if I didn't, Christian gays are simply not in the situation described in Rom 1, nor does your view take account of the overall argument in Romans. You can't just take isolated sentences out of context and use them as weapons. That's not what the authority of Scripture means. It means taking seriously what the author was actually trying to say.

That is not what God says. They were already getting involved mentally and God turned them over to a reprobate mind. He didn't create them that way. They dwelt on the sin.

hedrick · Jul 10, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
That is not what God says. They were already getting involved mentally and God turned them over to a reprobate mind. He didn't create them that way. They dwelt on the sin.

The people God says were turned over to a reprobate mind were pagans. That's the whole point of that section of Romans. Paul spoke of it as a consequence of idolatry. To my knowledge this did actually happen. I'm sure there were fine married couples, but Roman orgies as described in Rom 1 certainly did occur. Christian gays are not idolaters, and thus wouldn't have been turned over to a reprobate mind as described in Rom 1.

Kenny'sID · Jul 10, 2018

I'm guessing this has been quoted already, but twice won't hurt:

1 Corinthians 5:11
But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

hedrick · Jul 10, 2018

Kenny'sID said:
I'm guessing this has been quoted already, but twice won't hurt:

1 Corinthians 5:11
But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

Tell that to Jesus.

Ken Rank · Jul 10, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
and @Ken Rank.

The Bible doesn't say "sin is sin." To God, who has the final say so, there are sins that are willful, and sins that are transgressions which are unintentional.

Willful sin is rebellion... when I say "sin is sin" I am saying that God doesn't place more weight on murder than He does stealing, or more weight on adultery than He does making idols. All are wrong in His eyes... and save for blaspheming the Holy Spirit, all are forgivable. So to single out homosexuality (which again, IS a sin) and elevate it above adultery (which a pastor might take part in and is also sin) is wrong... both are wrong.

Ken Rank · Jul 10, 2018

Thedictator said:
Because some people advocates for this sin, they publicly promote it. Of which the Church has to publicly denounce it. I have never seen anyone advocate for getting drunk and beating his wife.

No, but I have personally seen many who have given a pastor 4 or 5 chances after he sleeps with women not his wife... so we just let that go on and pounce on the homosexual like he just committed the unpardonable sin? The goal is the walk in and speak what is RIGHT... not be a legalist who stands there pointing out where everyone else is wrong. Usually those people are the ones who spend time trying to remove tooth picks from the eyes of some while they themselves have 2 X 4's hanging from their own eyes.

Kenny'sID · Jul 10, 2018

hedrick said:
Tell that to Jesus.

Then you are saying we *should* keep company with those people?

hedrick · Jul 10, 2018

Kenny'sID said:
Then you are saying we *should* keep company with those people?

The passage you quoted doesn't apply unless it actually is sexual immorality.

Kenny'sID · Jul 10, 2018

hedrick said:
The passage you quoted doesn't apply unless it actually is sexual immorality.

Then you are saying homosexuality is not immoral?

hedrick · Jul 10, 2018

Kenny'sID said:
Then you are saying homosexuality is not immoral?

Yes. You might want to review the last few pages.

Anto9us · Jul 10, 2018

Spiritualized is now a Christian! Yay !!
Wow - I take a nap and he's gone from Agnostic to Christian -
and the Rangers were ahead of the Red Sox!! (That didn't last long, though)

The differences in opinion in this thread make me tend to think some kind of a split is inevitable.
There are Methodists who wish to be gay-accepting, to whom a decision in 2019 to NOT accept them would make them uncomfortable in their denomination.
There are Methodists who do NOT want gays accepted in the denomination, to whom a contrary decision would make them uncomfortable in their denomination.

The ironic thing is that in the past, the Methodist Episcopal Church South split off because of slavery -- and their position was technically biblical (slavery condoned in the Bible) -- but eventually slavery became unacceptable to the CULTURE. After that, Methodists eventually became the UNITED Methodist Church (in late sixties).

Now the CULTURE is forcing a hard look at the biblical standard against homosexuality, discussing whether the prohibitions were aimed more at Temple homosexual Prostitution, yet not all of them are designated such...

dreadnought · Jul 10, 2018

Anto9us said:
Spiritualized is now a Christian! Yay !!
Wow - I take a nap and he's gone from Agnostic to Christian -
and the Rangers were ahead of the Red Sox!! (That didn't last long, though)

The differences in opinion in this thread make me tend to think some kind of a split is inevitable.
There are Methodists who wish to be gay-accepting, to whom a decision in 2019 to NOT accept them would make them uncomfortable in their denomination.
There are Methodists who do NOT want gays accepted in the denomination, to whom a contrary decision would make them uncomfortable in their denomination.

The ironic thing is that in the past, the Methodist Episcopal Church South split off because of slavery -- and their position was technically biblical (slavery condoned in the Bible) -- but eventually slavery became unacceptable to the CULTURE. After that, Methodists eventually became the UNITED Methodist Church (in late sixties).

Now the CULTURE is forcing a hard look at the biblical standard against homosexuality, discussing whether the prohibitions were aimed more at Temple homosexual Prostitution, yet not all of them are designated such...

Good for Spiritualized. Cardinals can't hit.

Kenny'sID · Jul 10, 2018

hedrick said:
Yes. You might want to review the last few pages.

Or you could just explain. See, if I haven't seen scripture by now that says homosexuality is not immoral it's likely I'll miss whatever you're talking about, and it would have to be pointed out to me....if you can.

Inkfingers · Jul 11, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
Wow! Major assumption! He wasn't promoting any sin!

Take a look at that avatar. Listen to the words.

1stcenturylady · Jul 11, 2018

Ken Rank said:
Willful sin is rebellion... when I say "sin is sin" I am saying that God doesn't place more weight on murder than He does stealing, or more weight on adultery than He does making idols. All are wrong in His eyes... and save for blaspheming the Holy Spirit, all are forgivable. So to single out homosexuality (which again, IS a sin) and elevate it above adultery (which a pastor might take part in and is also sin) is wrong... both are wrong.

Any willful sin, whether lying or murder are equal, yes. And all sexual sins are equal, whether the perversions of a pedophile or homosexual, or a heterosexual fornicator or adulterer. But transgression is a lesser type of sin as it is unintentional. So in comparing willful sin against unintentional transgressions - "sin is sin" is not true. That phrase has been overused and has started false doctrines. That is what I object to. There are other phrases in the false doctrine category I also hate every time they come up; and on the forum they come up often, which leaves me to believe the Church is in big trouble!

1stcenturylady · Jul 11, 2018

hedrick said:
Yes. You might want to review the last few pages.

Sorry, but no matter what you believe, God believes it IS immoral and a willful sin. You can either be on God's side or not.

1stcenturylady · Jul 11, 2018

hedrick said:
The people God says were turned over to a reprobate mind were pagans. That's the whole point of that section of Romans. Paul spoke of it as a consequence of idolatry. To my knowledge this did actually happen. I'm sure there were fine married couples, but Roman orgies as described in Rom 1 certainly did occur. Christian gays are not idolaters, and thus wouldn't have been turned over to a reprobate mind as described in Rom 1.

You can try to sweep the truth of these acts of perversion under the rug if you like, but wouldn't you rather be on God's side?

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