Transformation through mind renewal (Romans 12:2), and sexual orientation.

name_is_irrelevant · Jul 10, 2018

Does the transformation mentioned in St Paul's statement, "Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind", extend to things like homosexuality, sexual orientation, etc? Asking because of a petition appearing in my Facebook feed to ban conversion therapy.

HereIStand · Jul 10, 2018

Yes. It could extend to not acting on those impulses. It doesn't mean someone won't have them.

name_is_irrelevant · Jul 10, 2018

HereIStand said:
Yes. It could extend to not acting on those impulses. It doesn't mean someone won't have them.

So would you find fault with attempts at changing sexual orientation, then? Wondering if a gay Christian has to simply accept that "burning with passion" (as St Paul puts it), is their cross to bear. Incredibly heavy cross in a culture that is obsessed with "love" and relationships, inside the church and out.

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 10, 2018

They need freedom from sin, from the power of the devil, and from the power of the flesh - by the power in Jesus' Name and Blood.
Same as everyone else.

If / when they are born again, by THE FATHER'S WILL (not man's),
they
become a new creation clean and clear of sin and the power of sin.

The sinful impulses, whether of the flesh, the mind , or of demons, will be crucified with them when they are crucified with Christ,
and there will be no more sinful passions or desires remaining,

unless they return to the muck and mire sinfully, disobediently, and get worse than they were to start with.

drjean · Jul 10, 2018

Speaking to the "burning" only... I don't understand why homosexuals are not able to adhere to God's Word like others who are not in relationship. Just because people are not married and are not homosexual doesn't mean they don't have sexual desires... if they wish to please God, they just don't act upon those desires.

To the OP yes, it's a mindset.

JIMINZ · Jul 10, 2018

name_is_irrelevant said:
Does the transformation mentioned in St Paul's statement, "Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind", extend to things like homosexuality, sexual orientation, etc? Asking because of a petition appearing in my Facebook feed to ban conversion therapy.

.
Do you believe conversion therapy is a viable solution, that it really works?

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 10, 2018

It is grossly disturbing (just looked it up on wiki, what they do and how).... not suitable even for discussion in assembly of Ekklesia.

It is also illegal in many places.

name_is_irrelevant · Jul 10, 2018

drjean said:
Speaking to the "burning" only... I don't understand why homosexuals are not able to adhere to God's Word like others who are not in relationship.

Who says others are able to? St Paul says "if they cannot control themselves".

drjean · Jul 10, 2018

Yep. But also the countless 'others' who are addicted to something, even food, yet deny themselves that... or even those who have a bad habit of cursing..yet they are mindful not to use those words in church, for instance. Or the person who gets angry but doesn't flip someone off when their car is cutoff in traffic.... Mindset. Discipline.

It's a fleshly habit that causes sinful behavior. But believers can have the "mind of Christ" and overcome the flesh. Our Spirits and souls were made free, our bodies will not be until redeemed.

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 10, 2018

name_is_irrelevant said:
Who says others are able to? St Paul says "if they cannot control themselves".

....continue reading ----- they are told DO WHAT YAHWEH (GOD) SAYS TO DO....

not to commit sin , no, never.

dqhall · Jul 10, 2018

name_is_irrelevant said:
Who says others are able to? St Paul says "if they cannot control themselves".

People have been able to repent of homosexuality. It is better for them to be celibate than lose it in homosexuality. A male homosexual has a diminished life expectancy due to the HIV epidemic.

Paul recommended celibacy for the unmarried and widows in 1 Corinthians 7. He also recommended marriage for those who had to marry. He never recommended homosexuality.

People are supposed to repent of their sins. Gays tried to make other people gay. It is a problem with them trying to seduce heterosexuals into their immoral way of life.

name_is_irrelevant · Jul 10, 2018

drjean said:
Yep. But also the countless 'others' who are addicted to something, even food, yet deny themselves that... or even those who have a bad habit of cursing..yet they are mindful not to use those words in church, for instance. Or the person who gets angry but doesn't flip someone off when their car is cutoff in traffic.... Mindset. Discipline.

It's a fleshly habit that causes sinful behavior. But believers can have the "mind of Christ" and overcome the flesh. Our Spirits and souls were made free, our bodies will not be until redeemed.

I still don't understand why heterosexuals get a pass on this area of their life if they "cant" control themselves. Why can't they control themselves? Everyone else has to.

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 10, 2018

name_is_irrelevant said:
I still don't understand why heterosexuals get a pass on this area of their life if they "cant" control themselves. Why can't they control themselves? Everyone else has to.

You mixed it up.
Even IF and WHEN they can't control themselves, they must DO WHAT YAHWEH SAYS or die in sin.
They do not, are not allowed to, sin.

"Everyone else" gets the same choice - DO WHAT YAHWEH SAYS, or die in sin.

name_is_irrelevant · Jul 10, 2018

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Even IF and WHEN they can't control themselves, they must DO WHAT YAHWEH SAYS or die in sin.
They do not, are not allowed to, sin.

Yes except if you're not gay and are burning with sexual desire, St Paul says marry, that's his solution for heterosexuals. He doesn't provide a similar solution for people who are attracted to the same sex. Which is partly why I ask if one's sexual orientation can be changed via "renewal of the mind", or is that hardwired like the scientific community seems to think it is? Because if it's fixed, it just seems they have a much heavier cross to bear than others.

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 10, 2018

name_is_irrelevant said:
Yes except if you're not gay and are burning with sexual desire, St Paul says marry, that's his solution for heterosexuals. He doesn't provide a similar solution for people who are attracted to the same sex. Which is partly why I ask if one's sexual orientation can be changed via "renewal of the mind", or is that hardwired like the scientific community seems to think it is? Because if it's fixed, it just seems they have a much heavier cross to bear than others.

We are FORBIDDEN BY THE RULES OF HIS FORUM from telling you.
Sorry.
The answer is simply and obviously in JESUS, in line with all of His Word, totally JOYOUS AND PEACEFUL AND RIGHTEOUS.

The healing is in Jesus. In His Name. BY God's Word.

The change needed is offered by God, accomplished by God, through Jesus, not just in some cases, no, but
in anyone who gets redeemed (no one can save themselves).

drjean · Jul 10, 2018

I think the main point is not really about sexuality...but mind renewal.
We ALL have our nemesis that we must use our minds to keep us out of trouble ...

You mentioned Paul and of course he said he spoke from his own view... and he had been married, remember "lived a Pharasee" and Pharasees had to be married (back then). But he did not remarry....

for the physical attractions issue God made the body to take care of that on it's own... and by disciplining the mind---by not focussing upon that but upon God-- you get through it.

If one stays focussed upon God 'the things of earth grow strangely dim in the Light of His Glory and grace'.

God will change the "want to" if a person asks Him to... if a person means it... He will. :prayer:

HereIStand · Jul 10, 2018

name_is_irrelevant said:
So would you find fault with attempts at changing sexual orientation, then? Wondering if a gay Christian has to simply accept that "burning with passion" (as St Paul puts it), is their cross to bear. Incredibly heavy cross in a culture that is obsessed with "love" and relationships, inside the church and out.

Being LGBT is more of a chosen identify than an orientation. Few people would not be attracted to the opposite sex to any degree. The change that's needed is to remind people that their identity is in Christ. No one is obligated to embrace an LGBT identify because secular society demands it.

nonaeroterraqueous · Jul 10, 2018

name_is_irrelevant said:
..or is that hardwired like the scientific community seems to think it is?

The "scientific community" is well aware that very little in the human mind is hardwired. This is very much in contrast to animals, in which instincts, such unlearned complex behavior and knowledge is hardwired. Much effort has been put into finding human instincts, but as far as I know there are none.

Human sexuality is self-reinforcing, not just in terms of orientation, but also in terms of a specific mate. It would seem to be unchangeable to the person trying to change it, but it's not actually completely hopeless. A person can't develop this area of their life in one or two dozen years and expect to get out of it in a day, apart from a miracle. That doesn't make it hardwired, just baked-in.

Transformation through mind renewal (Romans 12:2), and sexual orientation.

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