Why believe in the Rapture?

Well, let's take it from a very good source. Jesus.

He says this in Matthew 24:31:

"And he will send his angels with a LOUD TRUMPET CALL and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other."

Now that "gathering" sounds pretty comprehensive to me. I just have to make sure I am one of those "elected"and by the grace of God in Jesus, I know I am. Hallelujah!!!

Not hard, huh?

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Matthew 24:31 as one already said and I Thessalonians 4:13-18.

I personally don't believe the raising and ascension of the two witnesses is the 1st resurrection and rapture because their raising and ascension is completed before the 7th trumpet even begins to sound, and is part of the 6th trumpet (or 2nd "woe"), which is an entirely different "woe" than the 7th trumpet (Revelation 11:11-15, 8:13, 9:12). I don't believe the 1st resurrection and rapture of the church will take place until after the "last trump" sounds (1 Corinthians 15:52, compare 1 Thessalonians 4:16).

I don't believe the 7th trumpet is the "last trump" because the Lord won't return and sound the last trump until "after the tribulation" (Matthew 24:29-31), the final stage of which I believe is the 7 vials. Between the 6th and 7th vials, Jesus exhorts us to hold on (Revelation 16:15). I believe this is the same blessing as Daniel 12:11-12, so that we must wait the full 1,335 days, not just 1,260, for the 1st resurrection and rapture.

I don't believe Christ will come to gather us up until the 7 vials are finished, for when Christ comes the Antichrist is destroyed (2 Thessalonians 2:1, 8). The Antichrist isn't destroyed when the two witnesses arise, for he is still gathering his armies after the 6th vial (Revelation 16:12-16), and isn't destroyed until the 2nd coming (Revelation 19:19-20), after the vials (Revelation 16).

Note that they only beheld the two witnesses rising in Revelation 11:12; they didn't behold the coming of Christ or the rapture and resurrection of the entire church. None of these are found in Revelation 11:12, just as none of these are found at the "come up hither" spoken only to the Apostle John over 1900 years ago in Revelation 4:1.

I don't believe the raising of the two witnesses is the 1st resurrection for the same reasons raisings in the past weren't the 1st resurrection. I believe the two witnesses are merely resuscitated back into their mortal bodies like Lazarus or those many after Christ's resurrection were raised (John 12:9-10, Matthew 27:52-53), and translated in their mortal bodies into heaven like Elijah and Enoch were taken into heaven (2 Kings 2:11, Genesis 5:24).

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OK......

22nd March 2003 at 01:43 PM ephod said this in Post #45:
...This event happens when the witnesses are resurrected and taken to heaven; causing this symbolic catastrophe saying God is finished with the world and His judgement is about to begin. The 7 bowls or vials of God's wrath are about to be poured out...

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Note again that they only beheld the two witnesses rising in Revelation 11:12; they didn't behold the coming of Christ or the rapture and resurrection of the entire church. None of these are found in Revelation 11:12, just as none of these are found at the "come up hither" spoken only to the Apostle John over 1900 years ago in Revelation 4:1.

Note that we Christians can still be on the earth during the 7 vials of God's wrath (Revelation 16) without being appointed to wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9) because the 7 vials aren't directed at us Christians. The 1st vial brings a sore only "upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image" (Revelation 16:2), and not upon us Christians. The 2nd vial kills only those creatures living "in the sea" (Revelation 16:3), and not us Christians. The 3rd vial turns to blood only "the rivers and fountains of waters" (Revelation 16:4), and not any stored water of us Christians. In the 4th vial it says only that "men were scorched with great heat" (Revelation 16:9), and not that any of us Christians sheltered from the sun's heat in our "chambers" (Isaiah 26:20) were scorched. I believe that the 5th vial will bring darkness and pain only upon the unbelievers in the kingdom of the beast (Revelation 16:10), and not upon us Christians who will have light sources in our chambers, just as the darkness brought upon the kingdom of Egypt did not come upon God's people who "had light in their dwellings" (Exodus 10:22-23). The 6th vial affects only the Euphrates river (Revelation 16:12), and not us Christians, and at the 6th vial Jesus addresses us Christians; he still hasn't yet "come as a thief" (Revelation 16:15). In the 7th vial, I believe that if the armies of unbelievers gathered at Armageddon can survive the earthquake and hailstones of the 7th vial in order for Jesus to slay them with the sword of his mouth (Revelation 19:19-21), and if there can be unbelievers "left" alive all around the world in bed and working in the field and grinding at the mill (Luke 17:34-36), then we Christians will survive the earthquake and hailstones as well.

I agree with Postrib to a point.  I believe some Christians will go through the wrath, but not all.  If it is all Christians that will go through the wrath, but not suffer its effects, what do you do with the following;

Rev14

<SUP>14</SUP> And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. <SUP>15</SUP> And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. <SUP>16</SUP> And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

Compared to;

Mark 13:27 - And then shall he send his angels, and shall <B>gather </B>together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

And this;

1 Thessalonians 4:17 - Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the <B>cloud</B>s, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

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It appears, at least to me, that this gathering occurs at the 7th trumpet, prior to the 7 vials.

Compare to this;

1Cor 15:<SUP>51</SUP> Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, <SUP>52</SUP> In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

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Of those that survive through the 7 vials, and Armageddon, where is it said of them, anywhere, that they are gathered to the clouds?&nbsp; I am speaking of the sheep and goats.

Originally posted by dmac5:
...what do you do with the following...

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I think that Revelation 14:14-16 may not be a rapture/resurrection: it could possibly be a symbolic picture of Jesus harvesting into heaven the souls of those Christians dying under the Antichrist for not taking the mark:

"They have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them. And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped" (Revelation 14:11-16).

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