The Homosexuality Issue

Practicing homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God, along with all those who practice the sins of the flesh by doing the works of the flesh.

They should repent of their homosexuality, it is a perversion to say your a homosexual person even if your celibate. It does not set the right example to others to say your a christian and still hang onto the old man of the flesh. such persons are displaying unrighteousness.

Galatians 5:19-23 New King James Version (NKJV)
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: [a]adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, [c]murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 [d]gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

1 Corinthians 6:8-10 New King James Version (NKJV)
8 No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat, and you do these things to your brethren! 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [a]homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

Spiritualized said:

If you're going to say that a LGBT person cannot be a member of a church or a Christian without rejecting who they are, you might as well say no one can be a Christian if they sin. There is no difference. There is only one sin that is unforgivable and that is not anything to do with any of the "sins" mentioned in this discussion. We are all broken and all sinners by nature. We saved not because of who we are but because of who God is, and not because of what we do but because what God has already done. Our only mission is to LOVE each other, love includes inclusion and acceptance. All of the group Jesus considered close friends, or even family, were sinners. Even after the crucifixion they went on sinning. It is not something we will ever escape. Not in this lifetime. Love is the answer. Nothing else. Love. When the time comes, God will make any changes necessary in anyone's life. All he requires at the moment is faith and love - both of which a person can have regardless of colour, sexual orientation, economic class or whatever else. When the pharisees and church of Jesus day were also around discussing who is good enough to be religious and who isn't - Jesus spent his time loving those who weren't accepted by the church. Funny how history repeats itself in varying ways.

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Forgiveness is contingent upon repentance.

If you carry on engaging in homosexual acts, you are not repentant.

1stcenturylady said:

If I were raised Presbyterian, and this sin started in my denomination, I would leave the appearance of evil that these few churches perpetrate. Hopefully, "few" is the right word...

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The mainline churches are aging and emptying. This issue is one of the last in a long line of marginalized beliefs.

Anto9us said:

Anything less than "It's OK to be gay -- it's OK to be a gay pastor - it's OK to be a gay Bishop" is not going to satisfy a large number of people.

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That's the problem of many of the new age creeping into the churches. Changing doctrine to satisfy the most people and keep them coming back.

Ken Rank said:

I realize this is a thread on homosexuality but just an aside... it is interesting to me that many will pick this "sin" out from the rest (and it is a sin) and then ignore other sins. I have seen people go and protest gay marriage and then go home and get drunk and beat their wife. Sin is sin... God has some things He calls an abomination, some things He says He hates... but in the end only ONE SIN is not pardonable and it isn't homosexuality. Yet... we pick this one out and make our stand as if it were blaspheming the Spirit. Weird...

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This is some wisdom here from Ken, sin is sin and no matter what year it is, the bible still hasn't changed. Society thinks that they are progressing and becoming smarter. From what I see, they are forgetting allot of history, look at the Romans for instance.
How many denominations would leave a pastor in place who was openly committing adultery with his mistress? Yes, they should be allowed in church, where the truth of what the bible says should be taught to them, we love them just like we love other sinners.

Spiritualized said:

If you're going to say that a LGBT person cannot be a member of a church or a Christian without rejecting who they are, you might as well say no one can be a Christian if they sin. There is no difference. There is only one sin that is unforgivable and that is not anything to do with any of the "sins" mentioned in this discussion. We are all broken and all sinners by nature. We saved not because of who we are but because of who God is, and not because of what we do but because what God has already done. Our only mission is to LOVE each other, love includes inclusion and acceptance. All of the group Jesus considered close friends, or even family, were sinners. Even after the crucifixion they went on sinning. It is not something we will ever escape. Not in this lifetime. Love is the answer. Nothing else. Love. When the time comes, God will make any changes necessary in anyone's life. All he requires at the moment is faith and love - both of which a person can have regardless of colour, sexual orientation, economic class or whatever else. When the pharisees and church of Jesus day were also around discussing who is good enough to be religious and who isn't - Jesus spent his time loving those who weren't accepted by the church. Funny how history repeats itself in varying ways.

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Why do you deny Christ and call yourself Agnostic? You seem to preach a good message. There are many in the Church today that still sin for some reason. The only reason that comes to mind is they are merely "being saved" but aren't yet. So if they aren't saved yet, should we shun them? No.

This thread is on LEADERSHIP, not the congregation of a mixture of drawn, being saved, and saved.

1stcenturylady said:

They are not Christians. A Christian is Spirit-filled. They have the seed of the Spirit in them and 1 John 3:9 says they cannot sin. Calling themselves a Christian is a lie. The first step is repentance unto Jesus. They may say Lord, Lord, but Jesus never knew them.

That doesn't mean we should throw them out of the church if they are not in leadership. Because they are "being saved" whether they've made it yet or not.

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No a Christian is person who believed in Jesus Christ . Salvation is not by keeping the deeds of the Law

Romans 3:20-31 King James Version (KJV)
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Paul once reproved a brother who had sexual relationship with his own mother (incest) , but he did not stop being brother or Paul didn't say that he was not his brother to being with , he simply made mistake but he was his brother in Christ .

Humble me Lord said:

That's the problem of many of the new age creeping into the churches. Changing doctrine to satisfy the most people and keep them coming back.



This is some wisdom here from Ken, sin is sin and no matter what year it is, the bible still hasn't changed. Society thinks that they are progressing and becoming smarter. From what I see, they are forgetting allot of history, look at the Romans for instance.
How many denominations would leave a pastor in place who was openly committing adultery with his mistress? Yes, they should be allowed in church, where the truth of what the bible says should be taught to them, we love them just like we love other sinners.

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and @Ken Rank.

The Bible doesn't say "sin is sin." To God, who has the final say so, there are sins that are willful, and sins that are transgressions which are unintentional.

Chinchilla said:

I preached the gospel even on online video games and inappropriate content sites , Jesus ate with sinners in thier houses not in the Temple with high-priest as his guest.

Bath house isn't that bad

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Marry Magdalene was a harlot. She went everywhere with him.

Chinchilla said:

No a Christian is person who believed in Jesus Christ . Salvation is not by keeping the deeds of the Law

Romans 3:20-31 King James Version (KJV)
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

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You're quoting scripture from Paul's sermon on the law, which is preChristianity at chapter 3. The difference between being righteous by deeds of the law and failing, and the law of the Spirit of life in Christ is the Holy Spirit. Unless you have the seed of the Spirit of Christ in you, you don't belong to Christ. And those who have the seed, do not commit willful sin. There is a difference between knowing Jesus and only knowing about Him.

I agree with that 1stcenturylady, I was comparing adultery to homosexuality, both sexual sins, but one is seemingly overlooked while the other is always talked about.
If these denominations allow for homosexual pastors, why not a pastor who is openly committing adultery?

1stcenturylady said:

Why do you deny Christ and call yourself Agnostic? You seem to preach a good message. There are many in the Church today that still sin for some reason. The only reason that comes to mind is they are merely "being saved" but aren't yet. So if they aren't saved yet, should we shun them? No.

This thread is on LEADERSHIP, not the congregation of a mixture of drawn, being saved, and saved.

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I joined this forum back in 2010 while I was Agnostic. I came to Christ in 2014 and have literally signed onto this site today for the first time in 7 years. I have updated much of my profile but cannot for the life of me find where to update "Agnostic" to "Christian". For the time being I've put Christian below my name. If you'd like to help me where to find how to change Agnostic, please do

You say there are many in the church that "still sin for some reason" - Do you believe you are without sin, then? In my opinion, every one sins, every day. There is not one person on earth that is free of sin. That is why we need Jesus. He lived the sin free live for us, so that faith in him we take the image of his perfectness. If there is even one person who is sin free, Jesus would be irrelevant as it would be achievable by ourselves. God knew this wasn't possible.

I'm aware this was about leadership within the church, but it would inevitably filter down to congregation also. A leader must be able to lead his flock, he can't do that if he/she believes they should not be amongst them. But in terms of leadership alone, I still believe it perfectly fine for LGBT folk to be leaders. We've had trans pastors and gay pastors preach at our church and they've always been a blessing. God bless.

1stcenturylady said:

You're quoting scripture from Paul's sermon on the law, which is preChristianity at chapter 3. The difference between being righteous by deeds of the law and failing, and the law of the Spirit of life in Christ is the Holy Spirit. Unless you have the seed of the Spirit of Christ in you, you don't belong to Christ. And those who have the seed, do not commit willful sin. There is a difference between knowing Jesus and only knowing about Him.

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It is the same topic as the other thread, there are sincere christian born again and all with christ seed that have problems with sins in some areas, what about them?

1stcenturylady said:

You're quoting scripture from Paul's sermon on the law, which is preChristianity at chapter 3. The difference between being righteous by deeds of the law and failing, and the law of the Spirit of life in Christ is the Holy Spirit. Unless you have the seed of the Spirit of Christ in you, you don't belong to Christ. And those who have the seed, do not commit willful sin. There is a difference between knowing Jesus and only knowing about Him.

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Perhaps you speak of 1 John 3:9 and wilfull sin , sorry to tell you but this passage does not mean willfull sin but NO SIN at all . God is clear on that part , good tree has only good fruits , if you have one bad fruit on your tree it's bad to beging with no matter how many next good fruits you produce .

Matthew 7:18 King James Version (KJV)
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

There is no room for something you call willfull sin .

I wonder how long it will be until this thread is removed.

Karin12414 said:

Marry Magdalene was a harlot. She went everywhere with him.

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Are you a Sinner or a Saint? Mary was a w___e, but then Jesus cast 7 demons out of her, and she was then a Saint. You are what you see yourself as. That is why in Romans 6:2 it says "we are dead to sin" - a FACT. But further in the same chapter Paul says to "reckon yourselves dead to sin." That fact must reach our mind.

1stcenturylady said:

Are you a Sinner or a Saint? Mary was a w___e, but then Jesus cast 7 demons out of her, and she was then a Saint. You are what you see yourself as. That is why in Romans 6:2 it says "we are dead to sin" - a FACT. But further in the same chapter Paul says to "reckon yourselves dead to sin." That fact must reach our mind.

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If by casting out demons people became Saints then Christ would not need to die on cross but simply cast them all out of earth to prison in Tartarus .

Karin12414 said:

Marry Magdalene was a harlot.

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Got chapter and verse that says so?

7 devils were cast out of her - that's in the Bible - but her being a harlot is not in the Bible.

Inkfingers said:

Forgiveness is contingent upon repentance.

If you carry on engaging in homosexual acts, you are not repentant.

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So, lets substitute homosexual acts as..lets say, failure to love someone as we are called to do. If we continue to not love that person, that person must also be unrepentant? What if we told a lie, and we repented. But then told another lie. Does that mean we're unrepentant? I don't think so - but if so, we're all screwed, massively! LGBT and heterosexuals alike! So lets stick to loving each other and not removing specks whilst we have planks in our own eyes.

Karin12414 said:

Marry Magdalene was a harlot. She went everywhere with him.

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Sorry to burst your bubble. But, nowhere in the bible that it says that Mary Magdalene was a prostitute.
Mary’s Story
Mary Magdalene loved and served Jesus with a spirit of gratefulness. Before Jesus, she was possessed by seven demons. After her deliverance, Mary became one of Jesus’ most loyal followers throughout His ministry, crucifixion, resurrection, and ascension.Yes,she was a sinner before she met Jesus.But,there are other sins that women commit besides prostitution. Since our society is so neurotic,when it comes to sex,this is how this "old wives' tale" get perpetuated.

Chinchilla said:

Perhaps you speak of 1 John 3:9 and wilfull sin , sorry to tell you but this passage does not mean willfull sin but NO SIN at all . God is clear on that part , good tree has only good fruits , if you have one bad fruit on your tree it's bad to beging with no matter how many next good fruits you produce .

Matthew 7:18 King James Version (KJV)
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

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I agree it is no sin at all, but you have to see sin from God's point of view. What sin are you committing while walking in the Spirit? 1 John 1:7 shows a person walking in the Spirit, having fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin. What sin? Wasn't that cleansed when they received the Holy Spirit? So no sin at all means sins we commit on purpose. A Christian cannot sin on purpose. But we still make slights against each other, even if not intentional.

Are we not to pray the Lord's Prayer? Do we not still transgress unwittingly against each other? Do we never hurt anyone's feelings without meaning to? Those are transgressions we still commit, and why it is important to forgive each other these unintentional sins.