The Homosexuality Issue

I'm proud to say not many churches here in the UK reject LGBT folk. Gods love is for all. It's inclusive. Homosexuality as described in most of the Bible talks of gang rape and violence, which is not what homosexuality is about at all. Homosexuality was well known in the ancient times and not once did Jesus talk about homosexuality. I'ts a non story. We were commanded to love our neighbours as we love ourselves. Not judge and condemn. That's up to God at the end. Lets not be Gods and take our rightful place as his children called to do nothing other than LOVE everyone. Hopefully the "ex-Gay" therapies will be banned everywhere as they will be soon here in the UK. A good tree bears good fruit and a bad tree bad fruit - no good fruit ever came from forcing someone to reject who they were made to be. I'm aware I'll likely get abuse over this post but I'll respond back with love. Let's spend less time judging and more time loving. Peace be with you.

I really don't see any 'middle ground' like a decision that

'the people are to be accepted, but their practices are still to be condemned'

To my knowledge, there ALREADY EXIST homosexual pastors and at least one lesbian Bishop in the UMC.

I'm not gay, but if I were, I don't think that orientation would have been 'by choice'. I think orientation is established at a very young age for reasons science/psychology/religion does not understand.

Anything less than "It's OK to be gay -- it's OK to be a gay pastor - it's OK to be a gay Bishop" is not going to satisfy a large number of people.

Thedictator said:

The issue is not letting homosexuals come to church as visitors. They should be allowed. It issue is should they enter into fellowship with the church ( become members ) and the answer should be no.

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I would say strictly that practicing homosexuals should not even be allowed in the same place as believers, wherever we gather in the name of Christ. For that would be profaning his name if we let a homosexual in the FELLOWSHIP of believers. The fellowship is not defined by church membership but is the literal coming together in Yahshua's name. And we should purge the evil person in that midst.

1 Corinthians 5:
11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.

12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”

We cannot judge those who come to us and are outside the faith still. We must only shun those who are NAMED a brother. Especially, in leadership, because of their influence.

BTW, how many pastors and TV evangelists are extortioners?

1stcenturylady said:

Presbyterians also have gay pastors. What is your denomination doing about it?

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Mainline Presbyterians do in some cases. Evangelical Presbyterian denominations do not.

Anto9us said:

'the people are to be accepted, but their practices are still to be condemned'

To my knowledge, there ALREADY EXIST homosexual pastors and at least one lesbian Bishop in the UMC.

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The unholy problem comes when a SINNER in leadership is allowed to flaunt their sin. They shouldn't be in leadership at all; they should be shunned.

But that is not about gays coming into the church seeking to be saved. It is not our job to judge those outside, even if they are physically sitting in a pew. Only if they continue their practice after receiving the cleansing of their sin nature.

1stcenturylady said:

That sounds good. All churches are for sinners. Christians are there to help them come to know Christ. If we close our doors to those being drawn, how will they become saved? And how will they be set free if we chocolate coat homosexuality as okay.

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I realize this is a thread on homosexuality but just an aside... it is interesting to me that many will pick this "sin" out from the rest (and it is a sin) and then ignore other sins. I have seen people go and protest gay marriage and then go home and get drunk and beat their wife. Sin is sin... God has some things He calls an abomination, some things He says He hates... but in the end only ONE SIN is not pardonable and it isn't homosexuality. Yet... we pick this one out and make our stand as if it were blaspheming the Spirit. Weird...

HereIStand said:

Mainline Presbyterians do in some cases. Evangelical Presbyterian denominations do not.

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So what are "mainline" Presbyterians doing about it?

Ken Rank said:

I realize this is a thread on homosexuality but just an aside... it is interesting to me that many will pick this "sin" out from the rest (and it is a sin) and then ignore other sins. I have seen people go and protest gay marriage and then go home and get drunk and beat their wife. Sin is sin... God has some things He calls an abomination, some things He says He hates... but in the end only ONE SIN is not pardonable and it isn't homosexuality. Yet... we pick this one out and make our stand as if it were blaspheming the Spirit. Weird...

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Hi Kenny. It is about this sin in LEADERSHIP.

1stcenturylady said:

So what are "mainline" Presbyterians doing about it?

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Nothing. LGBT marriages and pastors are officially permitted.

1stcenturylady said:

What do you think about gay pastors?

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Think they are anathema before God, and any church who allows that to happen will be judged by God in same way God judged these churches: Revelation 2:14-15, 20, 3:16.

I say let them go to church but tell them what they are doing is wrong, how the church is going to forbid every sinner from entering?

Kevin Snow said:

I am not actually presbyterian. It was just something I picked. I don't know how to change it. I believe in the word of God. Which denomination is there for that?

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When I first joined I picked "Charismatic" but there was a glitch in the system and I got pegged "Word of Faith." I just wrote an email to administration at the bottom of the page in the blue stripe "CONTACT US."

I am not a denominationalist, and Charismatic seems to be a generic term to Spirit-filled (with gifts) and is the closest to non-denominational Pentecostal, without being Pentecostal.

Personally, I hate the totally generic "Christian," or "non-denominational" as it gives no hint to how extensive your knowledge is.

Spiritualized said:

I'm proud to say not many churches here in the UK reject LGBT folk. Gods love is for all. It's inclusive. Homosexuality as described in most of the Bible talks of gang rape and violence, which is not what homosexuality is about at all. Homosexuality was well known in the ancient times and not once did Jesus talk about homosexuality. I'ts a non story. We were commanded to love our neighbours as we love ourselves. Not judge and condemn. That's up to God at the end. Lets not be Gods and take our rightful place as his children called to do nothing other than LOVE everyone. Hopefully the "ex-Gay" therapies will be banned everywhere as they will be soon here in the UK. A good tree bears good fruit and a bad tree bad fruit - no good fruit ever came from forcing someone to reject who they were made to be. I'm aware I'll likely get abuse over this post but I'll respond back with love. Let's spend less time judging and more time loving. Peace be with you.

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You need to read further than Matthew 7:1

We are to tell people of the judgement God has already placed upon all, and that includes not pandering to perversions.

I see you have 7 posts and a rainbow avatar - so are you another troll?

Kevin Snow said:

And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you. ~1 Corinthians 5:2

No, homosexuals are certainly not allowed in the fellowship of believers. They are to be shamed.

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Only if they claim to be a Christian and are unwilling, despite attempts made in love and understanding have failed. Then the term shunned is invoked per 1 Cor "with them do not even eat."

If they just want to hear the word, but have not yet decided to let Jesus in, they should be welcomed and witnessed to in hopes the Holy Spirit will convict them.

HereIStand said:

Nothing. LGBT marriages and pastors are officially permitted.

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If I were raised Presbyterian, and this sin started in my denomination, I would leave the appearance of evil that these few churches perpetrate. Hopefully, "few" is the right word...

If you're going to say that a LGBT person cannot be a member of a church or a Christian without rejecting who they are, you might as well say no one can be a Christian if they sin. There is no difference. There is only one sin that is unforgivable and that is not anything to do with any of the "sins" mentioned in this discussion. We are all broken and all sinners by nature. We saved not because of who we are but because of who God is, and not because of what we do but because what God has already done. Our only mission is to LOVE each other, love includes inclusion and acceptance. All of the group Jesus considered close friends, or even family, were sinners. Even after the crucifixion they went on sinning. It is not something we will ever escape. Not in this lifetime. Love is the answer. Nothing else. Love. When the time comes, God will make any changes necessary in anyone's life. All he requires at the moment is faith and love - both of which a person can have regardless of colour, sexual orientation, economic class or whatever else. When the pharisees and church of Jesus day were also around discussing who is good enough to be religious and who isn't - Jesus spent his time loving those who weren't accepted by the church. Funny how history repeats itself in varying ways.

Homosexuality is a sin, period. It is not some one way ticket to Hell. God sees ALL sins as equal from murder to stealing a cookie from the cookie jar. If murderers, thieves, cheats and liars are welcome into the house of God, why not gays?

There is a way to show God's love to ALL of mankind without sacrificing your core beliefs. My Church had one of the girls from out teen group come out of the closet and we didn't treat her any differently. We loved her he same and fellowshiped with her the same. She isn't suddenly turned into a leper because of her sexual orientation. But we also did not change our views on homosexuality, nor did we refrain from discussing the subject when it came up. She is a creation of God that deserves and needs love. That's it. At the end of her life, God will have the final judgement.

We are called to Love, Jesus is to Save, God is to Judge.

Thedictator said:

The issue is not letting homosexuals come to church as visitors. They should be allowed. It issue is should they enter into fellowship with the church ( become members ) and the answer should be no.

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I agree. There must be a past tense in their homosexuality, and that can only come from the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

1stcenturylady said:

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God. Is the gospel preached in the bath houses? Where is a homosexual to go if they want to hear the gospel and be saved if you won't let them in?

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I preached the gospel even on online video games and inappropriate content sites , Jesus ate with sinners in thier houses not in the Temple with high-priest as his guest.

Bath house isn't that bad