Man kills teenager over early morning fireworks

Waking up the whole neighborhood at 1 a.m. you have 60% chance of getting shot.

Don't do it. What's the point of waking up everyone who have work or school the next day to have your own fun?

No one should have been shot no matter what time of day or night it is. This is a tragedy.

timewerx said:

Waking up the whole neighborhood at 1 a.m. you have 60% chance of getting shot.

Don't do it. What's the point of waking up everyone who have work or school the next day to have your own fun?

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Poe's Law?

I assume you were trying to make a joke or interject some sarcasm???

There is only one reason and one reason only to pull out a gun, and that is you find yourself in imminent danger.

Having an argument in your parking lot is not imminent danger. Call the police for noise ordinance violation.

THis attitude that you can just willy nilly pull a gun on another citizen over something trivial is disgusting. I hope they throw the book at this guy

I live in a largely Hispanic neighborhood, so I can sort of understand where the anger was coming from. Especially because it was a work day. I don't think it was right but I don't understand why some folks shoot off fireworks to the wee hours of the morning some days. It's inconsiderate. It's often illegal to have fireworks in the first place like that and its a violation of noise ordinances.

Fortunately, around here it rained and people stopping shooting off fireworks by 12. But that's still a little late even for my tastes . And keep in mind, launching them is technically illegal in the first place.

I've had days where its saturday night and the things are blasting off and I'm trying to go to bed early to go to church the next day and I have to put in earplugs. I easily startle and I'm a light sleeper: in the past I've had freakout panic attacks when one goes off when I'm drifting off to sleep, I thought I was about to have a heart attack.

So this is one place where my sympathy is strained.

Hank77 said:

No one should have been shot no matter what time of day or night it is. This is a tragedy.

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I feel another tragedy is this collective forgetness we old crusty types seem to engage in... forgetting what it was like to be a teenager.

Yes, being a teenager means you do and say some dumb things, but that shouldn't be a death sentence.

I really hate US "gun culture". There are too many gun enthusiasts that fantasize about scenarios in which they can use their guns. And so oftentimes they will seek out altercations just so they can pull their guns.

WHen I taught gun safety, I would always start the class off with a Q and A session to get a baseline of what the class "thought" were appropriate times to use a gun. That Q & A never ceased to amaze me.

We all tend to think of ourselves as authority figures that others should be compelled to listen to and obey. And for some reason, that feeling of authority only magnifies when you have a gun in your possession.

I tried to teach the opposite. I drilled it into my class that you never pull a gun unless you are intent on killing someone. You don't pull the gun to "make a point" or to "get someone to do what you want".

You see, in the movies, a character pulls a gun and then everyone instantly does what they say. But in real life, that rarely happens. You pull a gun and the unexpected will almost always happen. Things will tend to go sideways or south real quick. You escalate a situation, flight or fight kicks in for everyone, and all bets are off as to what can happen.

ubicaritas said:

...I don't think it was right but I don't understand why some folks shoot off fireworks to the wee hours of the morning some days. It's inconsiderate. It's often illegal to have fireworks in the first place like that and its a violation of noise ordinances.
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because it is fun, kids and teens like to have fun. Throw in some alcohol and it is a lot of fun.

Yeah, it's inconsiderate, but being inconsiderate is also part of being a teenager. When you are a teen, the world revolves around you, you are the most important person in it, etc etc.

but it's only one day per year, well, 2 if you count New Year's Eve. So meh, I tend to just let it roll off me like water off a ducks back. Sure, it's annoying but it's just kids being kids

I actually think its cringeworthy that so many Hollywood action blockbusters portray a "good guy" pulling out a gun on another "good guy" to prove a point. That's really wrong on so many levels. Guns are for killing things, not communication devices. You pull a gun on any sane person, they hate your guts, they don't brush it off. It's just crappy scriptwriting/directing and shows a fundamental disrespect.

Hollywood does alot of dumb things with props like that to try to communicate some subtle emotional point or create fake tension, but that's probably the most dangerous example.

dgiharris said:

but it's only one day per year, well, 2 if you count New Year's Eve. So meh, I tend to just let it roll off me like water off a ducks back. Sure, it's annoying but it's just kids being kids

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Not in my neighborhood, and perhaps not in that neighborhood in Texas either. Every saints day, holy day (including Christmas) or Latin American national holiday gets at least a small barrage of fireworks, practically.

I'm really not all that xenophobic, and generally my neighbors seem like decent people, but this is the least endearing aspect of living in the neighborhood.

There's a catch.

Ordinarily, if an older teen started letting off fireworks at 1am and was unrepentant about it, he'd get a smack on the nose.

But in the culture of modern America that is likely to get you shot or stabbed in counter-attack, so you shoot first.

Welcome to the world today.

ubicaritas said:

I live in a largely Hispanic neighborhood, so I can sort of understand where the anger was coming from. Especially because it was a work day. I don't think it was right but I don't understand why some folks shoot off fireworks to the wee hours of the morning some days. It's inconsiderate. It's often illegal to have fireworks in the first place like that and its a violation of noise ordinances.

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You read my mind man! I live in a crowded and poor neighborhood and early morning hour fireworks are not uncommon (excluding regular and Chinese New Year).

Some neighbors would launch fireworks early morning just to celebrate birthdays in the middle of the work day!

Ironically, I have sensitive hearing so I wear earplugs to sleep.... We have lots of inconsiderate neighbors. Like honking their horns several times just so anyone in their house would open the garage door for them (instead of getting down the car and using the doorbell) and this can happen at any hour, even early morning hours!

dgiharris said:

Yeah, it's inconsiderate, but being inconsiderate is also part of being a teenager. When you are a teen, the world revolves around you, you are the most important person in it, etc etc.

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That's exactly what a teen would think if their parents failed at teaching them good moral principles.

Such behavior is carried on well into adulthood. That's why divorces are so common because they still think the world revolves around them.

ubicaritas said:

Not in my neighborhood, and perhaps not in that neighborhood in Texas either. Every saints day, holy day (including Christmas) or Latin American national holiday gets at least a small barrage of fireworks, practically.

I'm really not all that xenophobic, and generally my neighbors seem like decent people, but this is the least endearing aspect of living in the neighborhood.

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I could let it pass but in my neighborhood, people launch fireworks even in birthdays. It's not part of our culture and tradition... Just an evolving trend in recent years. Hearts of people getting cold and becoming more and more inconsiderate...

Well, no fireworks in jail, so this guy should get his wish for 10 to life.

Inkfingers said:

Ordinarily, if an older teen started letting off fireworks at 1am and was unrepentant about it, he'd get a smack on the nose.

But in the culture of modern America that is likely to get you shot or stabbed in counter-attack, so you shoot first.

Welcome to the world today.

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The world hasn't changed. And most of the world are like that.

Murder is evil.....But having fun at the expense of other people is also evil.

The teen's parents have also done evil by failing to teach him valuable lessons in life.

Ultimately, the fault is in failed parenting and the corrupt values of our money-worshipping society.

As a teenager my parents raised me to be respectful and considerate. It's the message I got in school, family, church, the boy scouts.

I remember one time when I was a very young teen (maybe 11 or 12), I teased a girl because other kids my age were doing it (she wasn't very popular), which was very much unusual for me, and a teacher pulled me aside later and told me that wasn't nice at all, and I felt horrible and stuff like that never happened again for me. That was probably the worst thing I ever did like that as a teen and I learned my lesson. Maybe I was just unusual. Maybe we really do live in a barbaric world if boorish behavior is typical.

Inkfingers said:

There's a catch.

Ordinarily, if an older teen started letting off fireworks at 1am and was unrepentant about it, he'd get a smack on the nose.

But in the culture of modern America that is likely to get you shot or stabbed in counter-attack, so you shoot first.

Welcome to the world today.

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I would disagree...

The culture issue that's occurring is that people are trying to play the role of authority figure when it's a situation they have no authority in, and deliberately injecting themselves into a situation that's going to lead to confrontation/escalation instead of letting the appropriate people handle it.

Teens are lighting off fireworks and disturbing the peace?...there's a reasonable process for handling that...And it doesn't involve strapping on a piece and going out to the parking lot to play "tough guy" and "daring them to cross me"

The fact that he even had his gun with him shows clear intent that he had every intention of escalating this until he got a chance to outlet his frustration.

It's situations like this that give us responsible and level-headed gun owners a bad name.

First rule of thumb for responsible gun ownership...don't artificially put yourself in any situation with your gun, that you wouldn't be willing to put yourself in without your gun. ...and to follow that up, the first rule of CCW is that it doesn't make you a cop or authority figure. You don't get to order people around, you don't get to detain people, and people shouldn't have to bend to your will just because you were able to pass a simple written exam and hit the 12" target during your range test.

ThatRobGuy said:

The fact that he even had his gun with him shows clear intent that he had every intention of escalating this until he got a chance to outlet his frustration.

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Or he knew the police would do stuff all, the kids would be doing it again the next day, and if he went out there to tell them to stop he'd be a statistic in the morgue.

Inkfingers said:

Or he knew the police would do stuff all, the kids would be doing it again the next day, and if he went out there to tell them to stop he'd be a statistic in the morgue.

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Clearly your theory didn't hold up...because they didn't kill him, he killed one of them.

The older generation needs to understand that they don't have authority over random people just because they're older. I'm not even a young kid, I'm 34, and I'd take issue with someone in their 40's or 50's trying to bark orders at me just because they think their age gives them some sort of superiority over me.

If someone is not following the law, you call someone from law enforcement. You don't go rogue and grab a gun and try to handle it yourself.

ThatRobGuy said:

Clearly your theory didn't hold up...because they didn't kill him, he killed one of them.

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Because he went armed.

This is what happens when you are unarmed: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1575823/The-gang-who-murdered-Garry-Newlove.html

This is the back-story: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Garry_Newlove

Inkfingers said:

Because he went armed.

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...yep, and now a kid is dead for a noise violation.

Guys like that are the people who need to be weeded out of being able to own firearms.

Far too many people get a gun, then all of the sudden think it's time to play neighborhood enforcer.

Inkfingers said:

This is what happens when you are unarmed: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1575823/The-gang-who-murdered-Garry-Newlove.html

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Given what we know about these two outcomes, seems the smart thing to do is leave law enforcement to law enforcement professionals.