Revelation 9: Tormented 5 MONTHS and death fleeing

Riberra · Jul 9, 2018

TribulationSigns said:
Really? Let take a look at the church of the Laodiceans:

Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
Rev 3:22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Are you saying these verses do not apply to us today? Because it only applies to one of seven physical churches in Asia before the rest of the book of Revelation can be fulfilled? Your understanding of Revelation 2-4 is flawed.

I never said that what is written in the Book of Revelation is limited to the 7 Churches that were in existence in the Time when John have written the Book.

Just that their Judgment depended on what is written in Revelation 2 and Revelation 3.....

Example the Judgment of the Believers who will be alive during the 42 months reign of the Beast will depend on them taking the mark and worship the Beast OR NOT.

TribulationSigns · Jul 9, 2018

Riberra said:
I never said that what is written in the Book of Revelation is limited to the 7 Churches that were in existence in the Time when John have written the Book.

Just that their Judgment depended on what is written in Revelation 2 and Revelation 3.....

Look at what you wrote:

"Revelation 2 and Revelation 3 concerned the things which were to come soon ...ie a judgment of God upon the 7 Churches that were in existence in Asia."

And that it will take place BEFORE Revelation 4 and beyond can happen. Your words.

Tell me when did the events in Revelation 4, 5 and 6 took place?

Riberra · Jul 9, 2018

TribulationSigns said:
Look at what you wrote:

"Revelation 2 and Revelation 3 concerned the things which were to come soon ...ie a judgment of God upon the 7 Churches that were in existence in Asia."

And that it will take place BEFORE Revelation 4 and beyond can happen. Your words.

The repented believers of the 7 Churches in existence in Asia who have escaped the Roman persecution of the FIRST CENTURY HAVE GONE IN HIDING TO SURVIVE...the other were captured by the Roman Army and were martyred to death ...Those who have survived have gone in hiding in the catacomb ...

TribulationSigns · Jul 9, 2018

Riberra said:
The believers who have escaped the Roman persecution of the FIRST CENTURY HAVE GONE IN HIDING TO SURVIVE...the other were captured by the Roman Army and were martyred...

Ahem. [zip]

I am done here for the evening.

Have a good night!

Riberra · Jul 9, 2018

TribulationSigns said:
Ahem. [zip]

I am done here for the evening.

Have a good night!

Now you know what have happened to the lukewarm believers of the 7 Churches that were in existence in Asia in the Time of John [90 AD] during the First Century and how the true believers have ESCAPED the terrible Roman Persecution ...by going hiding into the catacombs by the inspiration of God.
God needed true believers to keep the Gospel alive...

HTacianas · Jul 10, 2018

LittleLambofJesus said:
Has anyone noticed the 5 months in Reve 9 in comparison with the time the flood covered the earth in Gene 7:24:

Revelation 9:
5 and it was given to them that they may not kill them, but that they may be tormented five months,
and their torment [is] as the torment of a scorpion, when it may strike a man;
6 And in those days shall men shall be seeking the death, and shall not shall be finding it
and shall be yearning/desiring to be dying and the death fleeing from them.
10 They had tails like scorpions, and there were stings in their tails. Their power was to hurt men five months.

Genesis 7:24
And the waters prevailed on the earth one hundred and fifty days.

According to Josephus, it took about 5 months for the Roman army, from the time Titus encompassed Jerusalem, to the final destruction of the City, :

http://www.bible.ca/pre-destruction70AD-george-holford-1805AD.htm

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover.....................

For five days after the destruction of the Temple, the priests who had escaped, sat pining with hunger on the top of one of its broken walls; at length, they came down, and humbly asked the pardon of Titus,
which, however, he refused to grant them, saying, that, "as the Temple, for the sake of which he would have spared them, was destroyed, it was but fit that its priests should perish also:" -whereupon he commanded that they should be put to death.

...............This memorable siege terminated on the eighth day of the ninth month, A.D. 70 : its duration was nearly five months, the Romans having invested the city on the fourteenth day of the fourth month, preceeding.

Before their final demolition, however, Titus took a survey of the city and its fortifications ; and, while contemplating their impregnable strength, could not help ascribing his success to the peculiar interposition of the ALMIGHTY HIMSELF. "Had not God himself (exclaimed he) aided out operations, and driven the Jews from their fortresses, it would have been absolutely impossible to have taken them ; for what could men, and the force of engines, have done against such towers as these

You Could be on to something comparing the five months of the siege to the five months of the flood. I certainly wouldn't say that you are wrong. But you mention here, and in other places, of the stings of scorpions is a discussion in and of itself.

The imagery of the Revelation is drawn from the religions of the characters involved. In this case the imagery of Mithraism. Mithraism is, or was, and ancient Persian religion adopted by the Roman army on the eastern frontier and brought back with them to the empire.

You can see here a sculpture of Mithra, normally portrayed killing a bull:

http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/mithras/images/cimrm593_mithras-slaying-bull-t.jpg

Look closely at the bottom of the statue and you'll see a scorpion attacking the bull's scrotum. While a scorpion attacking the bull's scrotum conjures up some feelings of stinging pain, the meaning is actually the scorpion sapping the bull of his strength. The five months of torment you mention above was that five month famine caused by the siege of Jerusalem, during which men were so sapped of their strength they thought death was preferable, "but could not find it".

Riberra · Jul 10, 2018

HTacianas said:
The five months of torment you mention above was that five month famine caused by the siege of Jerusalem, during which men were so sapped of their strength they thought death was preferable, "but could not find it".

The siege of Jerusalem have happened in 70 AD while the Book of Revelation have been written by John around 90 AD or 92 AD.
So , Revelation 9:1-12 refers to a End Times Event called the FIRST WOE...duration 5 months.
Revelation 9:5
5 And it was given them that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment[pain] was as the torment of a scorpion, when it striketh a man.

Revelation 9:12
12 The first Woe is past: behold, there come yet two Woes hereafter.

HTacianas · Jul 10, 2018

Riberra said:
The siege of Jerusalem have happened in 70 AD while the Book of Revelation have been written by John around 90 AD or 92 AD.
So , Revelation 9:1-12 refers to a End Times Event called the FIRST WOE...duration 5 months.
Revelation 9:5
5 And it was given them that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment[pain] was as the torment of a scorpion, when it striketh a man.

Revelation 9:12
12 The first Woe is past: behold, there come yet two Woes hereafter.

The writer is told to "[w]rite the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter". If he is to write about the past, present, and future, there is no reason to believe that everything is yet to come.

Riberra · Jul 10, 2018

HTacianas said:
The writer is told to "[w]rite the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are , and the things which shall be hereafter". If he is to write about the past, present, and future, there is no reason to believe that everything is yet to come.

.. the things which are ,refers to the address given to 7 Churches that were in existence when John wrote the Book of Revelation in 90 AD...Revelation 2 And Revelation 3 is about the things which are ...

The things to come thereafter have been shown to John after that John finished to wrote Revelation 2 And Revelation 3 about (the things which are) ie (a warning concerning the 7 Churches in existence when John begin to write the Book of Revelation).
Revelation 4
1 After these things I saw, and behold, a door opened in heaven, and the first voice that I heard, [a voice] as of a trumpet speaking with me, one saying, Come up hither, and I will show thee the things which must come to pass hereafter.

2 Straightway I was in the Spirit:

John have not ascended to Heaven with his physical body ....John was in the spirit when He saw [in the vision] the Throne Room of God and the celestial beings described in Revelation 4 and Revelation 5...

LittleLambofJesus · Jul 10, 2018

Riberra said:
Christ give an address to the 7 Churches that were in existence in the Roman Province of Asia in the time of John.. Revelation 2 and Revelation 3 cover this.

.

Good post. I have 2 threads on the 7 Churches over on the CS board for those interested:

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/revelation-chapter-2-1st-four-churches.8064465/

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/revelation-chapter-3-the-last-3-churches.8072344/

mama2one · Jul 10, 2018

LittleLambofJesus said:
Revelation 9:
5 and it was given to them that they may not kill them, but that they may be tormented
[is] as the torment<929> of a scorpion, when it may strike a man;

did you see on the news yesterday that there is a new species of wasp with a long, thick stinger?
they showed a pic on our news and I found an article with the pic:

https://www.upi.com/Science_News/20...ve-stinger-found-in-the-Amazon/3631530883569/

LittleLambofJesus · Jul 10, 2018

claninja said:
As the prophecy doesn’t define what the scrorpions or 5 months are, everything at this point is just speculation.
But let’s speculate away
Locusts typically arrived Late March to early April and stayed through late August or early September, so basically 5 months. Interestingly enough the siege of Jerusalem lasted around 5 months around the same time that locusts would appear on the scene................

Excellent info!

http://www.bible.ca/pre-destruction70AD-george-holford-1805AD.htm

This memorable siege terminated on the eighth day of the ninth month, A. D. 70 : its duration was nearly five months,
the Romans having invested the city on the fourteenth day of the fourth month, preceeding.......................

The siege beginning at Passover appears to be how Yahweh was to gather the people into Jerusalem in Ezekiel 22:

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover........
At this season multitudes came up from all the surrounding country, and from distant parts, to keep the festival.............
The city was at this time crowded with Jewish strangers, and foreigners from all parts, so that the whole nation may be considered as having been shut up in one prison, preparatory to the execution of the Divine vengeance [Ezekiel 22]

Ezekiel 22:
17 And there is a word of Yahweh unto me saying, ‘Son of man!
18 The house of Israel hath been to Me for dross,
All of them [are] brass, and tin, and iron, and lead, In the midst of a furnace — dross hath silver been,
19 Therefore, thus saith my Lord Yahweh:
Because of your all becoming dross, Therefore, behold!
I am gathering you unto the midst of Jerusalem,
20 A gathering of silver, and brass, and iron, and lead, and tin, Unto the midst of a furnace — to blow on it fire, to melt it,
So do I gather in Mine anger and in My fury,
And I have let rest, and have melted you.

Revelation 9:
5 and it was given to them that they may not kill them, but that they may be tormented five months,
and their torment [is] as the torment of a scorpion, when it may strike a man;
6 And in those days men shall be seeking the death, and shall not shall be finding it
and shall be yearning/desiring to be dying and the death shall be fleeing from them.
10 They had tails like scorpions, and there were stings in their tails.
Their power was to hurt men five months.

LittleLambofJesus · Jul 10, 2018

christine40 said:
did you see on the news yesterday that there is a new species of wasp with a long, thick stinger?
they showed a pic on our news and I found an article with the pic:

https://www.upi.com/Science_News/20...ve-stinger-found-in-the-Amazon/3631530883569/

Egads! Yikes!
I saw a documentary on this Asian hornet:

https://www.complex.com/pop-culture/2013/10/most-deadly-insects-in-the-world/
#1:

Native habitat: East and Southeast Asia
Death toll: Killed 42 people and injured 1,675
Why you should be terrified of them:
This giant hornet's venom can be detrimental to your red blood cells causing kidney failure and death. After being stung on both the head and legs during the summer, a victim suffered sting holes the size of quarters, and two months later, remains hospititalized.

The size of Asian Giant Hornet is comparable to a human thumb. The giant hornets are attracted to human sweat, alcohol, and sweet flavors and smells. Running only makes them want to chase you even more, so it's your best bet to keep it cool. Thankfully, the chances of these hornets making their way to the United States are slim to none.

Deuteronomy 7:20
“Moreover the LORD your God will send the hornet among them
until those who are left, who hide themselves from you, are destroyed.
Exodus 23:28
“And I will send hornets before you,
which shall drive out the Hivite, the Canaanite, and the Hittite from before you
Josuah 24:12
‘I sent the hornet before you which drove them out from before you,
also the two kings of the Amorites, but not with your sword or with your bow.

Dan1988 · Jul 10, 2018

Dave Watchman said:
Yep. I definitely noticed it. Some people think it's symbolic, you think it was at the DofJ, i'm sitting here on the edge of my seat for it to begin at anytime.

I tried to fit the prophetic time periods into the first century, but they wouldn't fit. Even when i used the Cestius siege and tried to force them in. Plus there weren't the right "darkened' sun at the end of the DofJ, immediately after the tribulation of those days.

One of the things i found that surprised me, time and dates calendars will go back to the first century.

https://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/custom.html?year=27&country=34&hod=3&df=1

https://www.timeanddate.com/calenda...month=4&country=34&typ=1&hod=3&display=1&df=1

I think we're close to the five months. I think that the Lord is going to come back and roll this whole place up like a scroll very quickly, behold He comes quickly, over a period of five months and change. I did a google search on "the tribulation is five months", and i was surprised at how many people were considering this as a possibility. Recognize your buddy?, he looks familiar.

I think we're just like in the days of John the Baptist. Nobody knows what's going on. Not even the disciples. Even a guy like John B had to send people out to ask: "are you the One we're waiting for, or should we wait for another?

My eschatology needs some tweaking, so I can get a clearer picture of all the events that must take place before Christ returns.
I have heard some Christians say that all the prophecies regarding the return of Christ have now been fulfilled so He could return at any moment.
As I look at today's world, it seems as though we have become like Sodom and Gomorrah. We are seeing our society descend into deep depravity, so it looks like the stage is set for His return.

TribulationSigns · Jul 11, 2018

LittleLambofJesus said:
Start a thread on those verses..........So do you have anything to add concerning the 5 months I have posted?
If not, please do not derail my thread. There are probably others that might be interested in this topic.

Your thread is already "derailed" by your inability to answer the questions directed you concerning the verses within the context of verse 1-6. You will NOT understand the torment of a scorpion for 5 months if you do not understand who the scorpions represent! Selah!

By the way, you are trying to base the 5 months on the book of a historian named, Josephus, which in itself is NOT a biblical exegesis to know the Truth. Heck, did God even inspired Josephus to explain what the torments of a scorpion mean at all in his writing? No? You depend on the historian as an interpreter for Revelation 9 "thinking" that Titus and his Roman army attacking Jerusalem for 5 months is a proof of Revelation 9:5. Seriously? Like I said, bad exegesis!

My VALID questions for you on the first three verses still stands that you need to answer. If you do not know or refuse, then you will never receive understand the meaning of 5 months! Even my position on the subject!

Dave Watchman · Jul 13, 2018

Dan1988 said:
My eschatology needs some tweaking, so I can get a clearer picture of all the events that must take place before Christ returns.

That's the way. That's the way i do it too. A constant state of tweaking.

Dan1988 said:
I have heard some Christians say that all the prophecies regarding the return of Christ have now been fulfilled so He could return at any moment.

I think that we are already more than half the way through the 42 months of Revelation 13. I think that i can hear the composite beast blaspheme God and His dwelling place and those who live in Heaven. It speaks like a dragon with a mouth like a lion. Saying unheard of things against the God of gods. So that when he finally "causes" the fire to fall from heaven in the presence of men, there'll be about six months until we are safe in the air.

Dan1988 said:
As I look at today's world, it seems as though we have become like Sodom and Gomorrah. We are seeing our society descend into deep depravity, so it looks like the stage is set for His return.

That's what i think it is too. You spot the biggie sign Dan. The "days of Lot". That's my empirical. I can stick a fork in it, and hold it in my hand. Like on the day when Lot went out from Sodom, fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them all— so will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed.

And it's 1290 days until a "darkened" sun. But it sure is spooky. To be here living with the reprobate minds in the kingdom of the rebels at the end of the age. When rebels have become completely wicked, a king of bold face should soon appear. Who can understand his riddles.

Peaceful Sabbath.

Dan1988 · Jul 13, 2018

Dave Watchman said:
That's the way. That's the way i do it too. A constant state of tweaking.

I think that we are already more than half the way through the 42 months of Revelation 13. I think that i can hear the composite beast blaspheme God and His dwelling place and those who live in Heaven. It speaks like a dragon with a mouth like a lion. Saying unheard of things against the God of gods. So that when he finally "causes" the fire to fall from heaven in the presence of men, there'll be about six months until we are safe in the air.

That's what i think it is too. You spot the biggie sign Dan. The "days of Lot". That's my empirical. I can stick a fork in it, and hold it in my hand. Like on the day when Lot went out from Sodom, fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them all— so will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed.

And it's 1290 days until a "darkened" sun. But it sure is spooky. To be here living with the reprobate minds in the kingdom of the rebels at the end of the age. When rebels have become completely wicked, a king of bold face should soon appear. Who can understand his riddles.

Peaceful Sabbath.

I haven't devoted much time as yet to study eschatology in any great depth. I only converted from Roman Catholicism to Christianity around three years ago, so I'm trying to take back the years the locust have devoured.

The Church I joined recently had just concluded a Bible study on the book of revelation, so I missed out but I have studied a bit of it in my own time. I have to say it's quite a complicated subject, and there are many different views which all seem to have some merit to them.

LittleLambofJesus · Jul 14, 2018

Last time used in OT:

http://biblehub.com/ezekiel/2-6.htm

Ezekiel 2:
3 "Son of man!” He said to me: “I am sending thee to the Israelites, to a rebellious nation that has rebelled against Me....................
6
And thou, son of man! thou art not afraid of them, yea, of their words thou art not afraid, for briers and thorns are with thee,
and near scorpions thou art dwelling, of their words thou art not afraid, and of their faces thou art not affrighted, for they are a rebellious house,

Verse 6. - Though briers and thorns be with thee. The two Hebrew nouns are not found elsewhere, and have consequently puzzled translators.
The LXX. gives two verbs, παροιστρήσπυσιν καὶ ἐπισυστήσονται ἐπὶ σὲ; the Vulgate, increduli et subversores. The words, however, are formed from roots that imply "pricking" or "burning," and the Authorized Version rendering, followed by the Revised Version, is tenable enough. A cognate form of the first is found in Ezekiel 28:24, and there the LXX. gives σκόλοψ, and the Vulgate, spina.

A like figurative use of "scorpions" is found in 1 Kings 12:11 (but here the reference may be to some scorpion like scourge) and Ecclus. 26:7 (compare also our Lord's words in Luke 10:19). Be not afraid Compare the like command in Jeremiah 1:17. The words imply, probably, a past as well as a future experience. Ezekiel had already known what it was to dwell among those whose hearts were venomous as scorpions. The comparison was a sufficiently familiar one among both Eastern and Greek writers.................

"thou dwellest in the midst of a people whose works are like to scorpions.''

Some interpret it, as Kimchi observes, of sharp thorns, of a thorny plant that grows in the form of a scorpion (a); but scorpions here are a kind of serpents, subtle, venomous, and mischievous, which have stings in their tails; which, as Pliny says, they are continually thrusting out, and striking with, that they may lose no opportunity of doing hurt (b); and fitly describe wicked men their subtlety and mischievous nature,

G#4651 is used in only 2 verses outside of Revelation.
Just like in Ezekiel 2, where Ezekiel is told not to be afraid, so Jesus comforts His Disciples, knowing they are going to be dealing with venomous serpents and scorpions, the corrupt murderous Jewish rulers.....

Luke 10:19
“Behold! I give you the authority to trample on serpents and scorpions/σκορπίων<4651>, and over all the power of the enemy,
and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

Matthew 10:6
“But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat 15:24
But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

Jeremiah 50:6
“My people have been lost sheep. Their shepherds have led them astray;
They have turned them away on the mountains. They have gone from mountain to hill;
They have forgotten their resting place.

Will continue in next post............

TribulationSigns · Jul 15, 2018

christine40 said:
did you see on the news yesterday that there is a new species of wasp with a long, thick stinger?

This is not you think God was talking about. Locusts of revelation 9 aren’t to be understood literally.

Davy · Jul 16, 2018

LittleLambofJesus said:
Has anyone noticed the 5 months in Reve 9 in comparison with the time the flood covered the earth in Gene 7:24:

Revelation 9:
5 and it was given to them that they may not kill them, but that they may be tormented five months,
and their torment [is] as the torment of a scorpion, when it may strike a man;
6 And in those days shall men shall be seeking the death, and shall not shall be finding it
and shall be yearning/desiring to be dying and the death fleeing from them.
10 They had tails like scorpions, and there were stings in their tails. Their power was to hurt men five months.

Genesis 7:24
And the waters prevailed on the earth one hundred and fifty days.

According to Josephus, it took about 5 months for the Roman army, from the time Titus encompassed Jerusalem, to the final destruction of the City, :

http://www.bible.ca/pre-destruction70AD-george-holford-1805AD.htm

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover.....................

For five days after the destruction of the Temple, the priests who had escaped, sat pining with hunger on the top of one of its broken walls; at length, they came down, and humbly asked the pardon of Titus,
which, however, he refused to grant them, saying, that, "as the Temple, for the sake of which he would have spared them, was destroyed, it was but fit that its priests should perish also:" -whereupon he commanded that they should be put to death.

...............This memorable siege terminated on the eighth day of the ninth month, A.D. 70 : its duration was nearly five months, the Romans having invested the city on the fourteenth day of the fourth month, preceeding.

Before their final demolition, however, Titus took a survey of the city and its fortifications ; and, while contemplating their impregnable strength, could not help ascribing his success to the peculiar interposition of the ALMIGHTY HIMSELF. "Had not God himself (exclaimed he) aided out operations, and driven the Jews from their fortresses, it would have been absolutely impossible to have taken them ; for what could men, and the force of engines, have done against such towers as these

The time of the stinging. Yes, I've tried to get others to look at that, the 150 days that Noah's ark was on the height of the waters of the flood also representing the trial of the tribulation stinging of five months (150 days per old Hebrew reckoning of 30 days for a month).

I believe it is the shortened time our Lord Jesus mentioned.

Rev 12:15-16
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
KJV

Revelation 9: Tormented 5 MONTHS and death fleeing

Is Revelation 9:5 symbolizing the 5 month siege of 70Ad Jerusalem?

Yes

No

Maybe

I have never thought of it that way

Other

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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