But my dad was not a murderer like Paul was and like Jesus' killers were.
I wasn't suggesting he was. But he was guilty of sin and so he stood under the condemnation of that sin.
James 2:10
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
But God forgave them in Christ even when they did not believe in Jesus.
And how do you know that, exactly? Jesus may have prayed for those who crucified him that his Father would forgive them, but nothing is said in Scripture about whether or not God did. We do have Jesus' comment about Judas, which does not indicate God forgave Judas his betrayal.
Mark 14:18-21
18 Now as they sat and ate, Jesus said, "Assuredly, I say to you, one of you who eats with Me will betray Me."
19 And they began to be sorrowful, and to say to Him one by one, "Is it I?" And another said, "Is it I?"
20 He answered and said to them, "It is one of the twelve, who dips with Me in the dish.
21 The Son of Man indeed goes just as it is written of Him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had never been born."
Justice doesn't mean that God HAS to punish.
Yes, it does. And every sin you and I (and your father) have committed, Christ paid for on Calvary with his blood. God's forgiveness does not come cheap.
That is the human thirst for revenge, but God has higher thoughts.
Oh? The Bible disagrees with you:
Hebrews 10:29-31
29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know Him who said, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay," says the Lord. And again, "The Lord will judge His people."
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Romans 2:5-9
5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
6 who "will render to each one according to his deeds":
7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath,
9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek;
Moreover, after death we have quitted sinning, Paul says that.
But if a person has not confessed their sin to God, and received the life of the Saviour and submitted to him as Lord, that person faces God after death as an unrepentant sinner who is under the condemnation and wrath of his holy Maker. The stain of our sin follows us into eternity which is why it is so necessary to be cleansed of it now.
You do not understand that God IS love and to love a sinner is not beyond him.
Of course it's not beyond Him. As I've already said, "God so loved
the World." But if a person lives their whole life on this planet with their back to God, He gives them in the next life what they wanted in this one: separation from Himself.
That's not on our repentance.
Yes, it is. God does not force His love on anyone. If we don't choose to know and love Him and to walk in humble submission to Him, we are the enemies of God and, as the verse above make very plain, on a terrible collision course with His holy wrath.
There is punishment, but there needn't be cruel punishment, eye for an eye has been changed to love for the enemy, and when God tells us to love our enemies he can do the same.
Yes, God loves His enemies - to a point. As Scripture makes very clear, God will judge each man according to his deeds. Those who have lived in rebellion to their Maker, guilty of an unrepentant life of sin, will face Him as their terrible Judge on the other side of death. God does not desire this end for anyone, and
though He had no obligation to do so, He made a way for any who would be saved from their sin to be saved. In this we see the astounding love of God. But God's love is holy and just and cannot turn a blind eye to sin. So, we see a God who would be our Heavenly Father if we so choose, but who will be our righteous and wrathful Judge if we do not.
You're lost in the Law of Sin and Death, man.
No, I'm standing squarely on the truth of God's word. It is you, sadly, who has taken on a contorted view of God and no longer see Him as He really is. This is not only sad but very dangerous, too.
I'd prefer to suffer my dad's atheism than to let him get punished for it.
But you aren't God. What you might suffer in your Dad is not necessarily what God would put up with in him. See the verses above.
Love covers sin and atheism is foolishness, not wickedness.
We ought in love to "cover" sin, but our responsibilities for dealing with sin and God's are very different. God is the Final Authority, the Last Seat of Judgment, on sin. We are not. God has a responsibility to enact justice and to punish sin that no human possesses. And so, where we might overlook the sin in another, God cannot. He exposes and judges sin; He does not sweep it under the rug.
Would you punish a dog for not knowing how to count numbers? Likewise my dad didn't know how to put faith in Christ, and with people like you judging left and right and mistaking unbelief for being as bad as murder, I couldn't have faith too.
Your Dad was no dog. And Scripture tells us that every man has some sense of God's existence that he suppresses in unrighteousness. (
Romans 1:18) As a consequence, no man can stand before God and claim he had no idea God even existed. The Bible also calls unbelief an "evil" that angers God. (
Hebrews 3:12) Your father's atheism, then, wasn't some harmless turn of mind but a rejection of the One who gave him life and breath and all the good things he enjoyed while he was on this planet. Your Dad rejected
God Almighty, which rejection is at the heart of every sin. Whatever you might think, nothing is worse, in the end, than this. And this is why God punishes such rejection and rebellion with eternal separation from Himself.
Sorry, but what you say seems extra wicked to me. You've dug up the law of sin and death again and that only makes people rebellious because sin comes to life. You do not understand this.
If what I have told you is "wicked," then the Bible itself is wicked; for all I have said to you is found in its pages. You want to lessen sin, to make it harmless and insignificant, but God won't go along. He hates sin and will judge it severely if we don't confess and repent of it, and yield our lives to Him.
