Eve's Morals

ac28

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I think we disagree on the definition of death. (and life)
Consider this.

Luke 20:37-39
But in the account of the burning bush, even Moses showed that the dead rise,
for he calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’
38 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.”
39 Some of the teachers of the law responded, “Well said, teacher!”

Difficult passage. First off all, He's talking about Israel and we all know the verse where All Israel will be saved. Then, He's talking about resurrection and between the time a person dies and is resurrected, he is dead. And, of course, Abraham, Issac, and Jacob, who are dead, will live again. I think that's what is meant
 
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Saint Steven

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Difficult passage. First off all, He's talking about Israel and we all know the verse where All Israel will be saved. Then, He's talking about resurrection and between the time a person dies and is resurrected, he is dead. And, of course, Abraham, Issac, and Jacob, who are dead, will live again. I think that's what is meant
Fair enough. (hold that thought)
Let's try another one.
What does this tell us about life and death?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
John 5:24
“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life
and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Here's another one.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
John 11:25-26
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life.
The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;
26 and whoever lives by believing in me will never die.
Do you believe this?”
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Did you know that the term "the realm of the dead" appears 29 times in the NIV translation of the Bible.

Yet no one talks about it. (in general)

- Steve
https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don_stewart/don_stewart_113.cfm

"1. The Unseen Realm Of The Dead

Sheol generally means the unseen realm of the dead, the present state of death. Both the godly and ungodly go to Sheol in this sense of the term. When used in this way, there is no idea of a place of judgment or condemnation. It is, for example, the place where the righteous Jacob would go.

All his sons and daughters came to comfort him, but he [Jacob] refused to be comforted. "No," he said, "in mourning will I go down to the grave [Sheol] to my son." So his father wept for him (Genesis 37:35).


Sheol was also the place where sinners would end up.

But if the LORD brings about something totally new, and the earth opens its mouth and swallows them, with everything that belongs to them, and they go down alive into the grave [Sheol], then you will know that these people have treated the LORD with contempt (Numbers 16:30).

In common speech this refers to the grave - not the literal burying place of the dead but rather the realm of the death. The New International Version normally translates Sheol as "grave." It is usually with the sense of the realm of the dead."
 
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Saint Steven

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https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don_stewart/don_stewart_113.cfm

"1. The Unseen Realm Of The Dead

Sheol generally means the unseen realm of the dead, the present state of death. Both the godly and ungodly go to Sheol in this sense of the term. When used in this way, there is no idea of a place of judgment or condemnation. It is, for example, the place where the righteous Jacob would go.

All his sons and daughters came to comfort him, but he [Jacob] refused to be comforted. "No," he said, "in mourning will I go down to the grave [Sheol] to my son." So his father wept for him (Genesis 37:35).


Sheol was also the place where sinners would end up.

But if the LORD brings about something totally new, and the earth opens its mouth and swallows them, with everything that belongs to them, and they go down alive into the grave [Sheol], then you will know that these people have treated the LORD with contempt (Numbers 16:30).

In common speech this refers to the grave - not the literal burying place of the dead but rather the realm of the death. The New International Version normally translates Sheol as "grave." It is usually with the sense of the realm of the dead."
Yes, thanks.

The term appears only twice in the NT. Both in Acts chapter 2.
The first of those is a quote of Psalm 16:10.

The Apostle Peter thought this was critical information in reference to
Jesus Resurrection from the dead.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Acts 2:27
because you will not abandon me to the realm of the dead,
you will not let your holy one see decay.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Acts 2:31
Seeing what was to come, he spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah,
that he was not abandoned to the realm of the dead, nor did his body see decay.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Furthermore, we know that Jesus was laid in an above ground tomb.
Yet he predicted that he would be...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Matthew 12:40
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish,
so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Where is the heart of the earth?

The Apostle Paul had this to say:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ephesians 4:8-10
This is why it says:
“When he ascended on high,
he took many captives
and gave gifts to his people.”
9 (What does “he ascended” mean except
that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions?
10 He who descended is the very one who ascended
higher than all the heavens, in order to
fill the whole universe.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The Apostle Peter had this to say:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1 Peter 3:18-20
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous,
to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.
19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits—
20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah
while the ark was being built. In it only a few people,
eight in all, were saved through water,
 
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ac28

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Fair enough.
Let's try another one.
What does this tell us about life and death?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
John 5:24
“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life
and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Here's another one.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
John 11:25-26
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life.
The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;
26 and whoever lives by believing in me will never die.
Do you believe this?”

Lots of semantics at play.

Those are both obvious. Whoever believes in Christ will die but will live again. In essence, though, since they live again, they are never really dead. The saved are said to be asleep, which is no more than a figure. All these verses relate back to the necessity of resurrection. No one has yet ascended to heaven - Jn 3:13. No Biblical resurrection has yet occurred, so all that have died are still dead and/or asleep in the grave, including David.

This is getting boring.

You just reminded me of how much I detest the NIV (and the ASV, NASB, ISV, ESV, and the RV).
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Lots of semantics at play.

Those are both obvious. Whoever believes in Christ will die but will live again. In essence, though, since they live again, they are never really dead. The saved are said to be asleep, which is no more than a figure. All these verses relate back to the necessity of resurrection. No one has yet ascended to heaven - Jn 3:13. No Biblical resurrection has yet occurred, so all that have died are still dead and/or asleep in the grave, including David.

This is getting boring.

You just reminded me of how much I detest the NIV (and the ASV, NASB, ISV, ESV, and the RV).

Good that this is in controversial section where it can be discussed honestly, eh? !

I think the lies and deceptions started as early as the 1st or 2nd century, and instead of being thrown out, they became rooted in what was taught to the people and became entrenched false doctine(s). Thus there is much more than troublesome translations to test the tenacity of the truth-dwellers and to terrify the souls of the trouble-makers.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Oh, my.

- lies and deceptions ?
- entrenched false doctine(s) ??
- troublesome translations ???
- truth-dwellers ????
- trouble-makers ?????

What are you up to?
Remember the post which I quoted?
Why do you think few accept the Scripture ?

I posted some of the reasons revealed by Yahweh from the Bible and history, in line with all Scripture, why so few accept the Scripture that was posted. (or weren't you aware so many people reject what was posted ? )
 
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Saint Steven

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Remember the post which I quoted?
Why do you think few accept the Scripture ?

I posted some of the reasons revealed by Yahweh from the Bible and history, in line with all Scripture, why so few accept the Scripture that was posted. (or weren't you aware so many people reject what was posted ? )
Get to the point, my good man. Posting quotes and quoting posts that are rejected by most but revealed by Yahweh from the Bible and history... Get to the point!
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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There is none good but God, as Jesus Says emphatically and clearly in Scripture.

Let's put the pertinent quotes in order and see if that helps:

first>
Fair enough. (hold that thought)
Let's try another one.
What does this tell us about life and death?
=======================================
second> QUOTE="ac28, post: 72920214, member: 341616"]Lots of semantics at play.

Those are both obvious. Whoever believes in Christ will die but will live again. In essence, though, since they live again, they are never really dead. The saved are said to be asleep, which is no more than a figure. All these verses relate back to the necessity of resurrection. No one has yet ascended to heaven - Jn 3:13. No Biblical resurrection has yet occurred, so all that have died are still dead and/or asleep in the grave, including David.

This is getting boring.

You just reminded me of how much I detest the NIV (and the ASV, NASB, ISV, ESV, and the RV).[/QUOTE
======================================
third> QUOTE="yeshuaslavejeff, post: 72920437, member: 96665"]Good that this is in controversial section where it can be discussed honestly, eh? !

I think the lies and deceptions started as early as the 1st or 2nd century, and instead of being thrown out, they became rooted in what was taught to the people and became entrenched false doctine(s). Thus there is much more than troublesome translations to test the tenacity of the truth-dwellers and to terrify the souls of the trouble-makers.[/QUOTE
======================================
 
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Saint Steven

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1) I know what I am saying.

2) I know what he is saying. But I disagree.

3) I can only assume you agree with him and disagree with me.
Which leads to statements about supposed:
- lies and deceptions
- entrenched false doctine(s)
- troublesome translations
- truth-dwellers
- trouble-makers

Unless I misunderstand you,
I am considered the enemy on some level.
Correct me if I am wrong.
 
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ac28

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Good that this is in controversial section where it can be discussed honestly, eh? !

I think the lies and deceptions started as early as the 1st or 2nd century, and instead of being thrown out, they became rooted in what was taught to the people and became entrenched false doctine(s). Thus there is much more than troublesome translations to test the tenacity of the truth-dwellers and to terrify the souls of the trouble-makers.

After 70AD, it seems that Paul faded out of the picture. Since no one but Paul ever wrote anything to today's Gentiles and since Paul's position suffered a lack of confidence and recognition, until the last 150 years, the focus through most of history was entirely on what Israel had and, everything Israel had, the Gentiles mistakenly thought now belonged to them. The result today is that the Denominational Church system is essentially a bunch of Jewish synagogues teaching Jewish doctrine to unsuspecting Gentiles that will never get any of it. At least 50% of what they teach is only for Israel and is therefore wrong for us Gentiles.

The only books that contain truth for today's Gentiles, as to our hope and calling, and what has been given only to us, which is far, far better than anything ever given to Israel, are Paul's 7 epistles written after Acts. During Acts, all Gentiles were grafted into Israel and, therefore, the Acts period was all-Israel, just like all Bible books except for Paul's 7 post-Acts books. All those other 59 books are very valuable for our learning and must never be neglected, but little or nothing in them applies directly to us Gentiles living in this 2000 year period of pure grace.
 
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Saint Steven

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After 70AD, it seems that Paul faded out of the picture. Since no one but Paul ever wrote anything to today's Gentiles and since Paul's position suffered a lack of confidence and recognition, until the last 150 years, the focus through most of history was entirely on what Israel had and, everything Israel had, the Gentiles mistakenly thought now belonged to them. The result today is that the Denominational Church system is essentially a bunch of Jewish synagogues teaching Jewish doctrine to unsuspecting Gentiles that will never get any of it. At least 50% of what they teach is only for Israel and is therefore wrong for us Gentiles.

The only books that contain truth for today's Gentiles, as to our hope and calling, and what has been given only to us, which is far, far better than anything ever given to Israel, are Paul's 7 epistles written after Acts. During Acts, all Gentiles were grafted into Israel and, therefore, the Acts period was all-Israel, just like all Bible books except for Paul's 7 post-Acts books. All those other 59 books are very valuable for our learning and must never be neglected, but little or nothing in them applies directly to us Gentiles living in this 2000 year period of pure grace.
That is interesting. Thanks.
When you say "Paul's 7 post-Acts books"
do you mean in the order they appear in the NT or the dates of writing?
You must mean writing dates, because ALL of Paul's books appear after Acts.
What's the list then? My writing dates might not agree with yours. Thanks.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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After 70AD, it seems that Paul faded out of the picture. Since no one but Paul ever wrote anything to today's Gentiles and since Paul's position suffered a lack of confidence and recognition, until the last 150 years, the focus through most of history was entirely on what Israel had and, everything Israel had, the Gentiles mistakenly thought now belonged to them. The result today is that the Denominational Church system is essentially a bunch of Jewish synagogues teaching Jewish doctrine to unsuspecting Gentiles that will never get any of it. At least 50% of what they teach is only for Israel and is therefore wrong for us Gentiles.

The only books that contain truth for today's Gentiles, as to our hope and calling, and what has been given only to us, which is far, far better than anything ever given to Israel, are Paul's 7 epistles written after Acts. During Acts, all Gentiles were grafted into Israel and, therefore, the Acts period was all-Israel, just like all Bible books except for Paul's 7 post-Acts books. All those other 59 books are very valuable for our learning and must never be neglected, but little or nothing in them applies directly to us Gentiles living in this 2000 year period of pure grace.
Thank you - I haven't heard this so clearly put before - only bits and pieces at different time,
yet and it all rings true with all Scripture and history subject to Scripture and subject to Jesus also.

Subject to verification, of course, as we each must confirm what we hear with Scripture, in line with Scripture,
this is a relief from false ideas held by so many for so long.

i.e. if we keep seeking the truth , not ourselves assuming we already know it, we will know the truth, as Yahweh Promises, and the truth , always in Jesus, and in all Scripture, will free us !
HALLELUYAH ! MARANANTHA ! Come Soon Master Savior Jesus ! Come Soon !
 
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ac28

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That is interesting. Thanks.
When you say "Paul's 7 post-Acts books"
do you mean in the order they appear in the NT or the dates of writing?
You must mean writing dates, because ALL of Paul's books appear after Acts.
What's the list then? My writing dates might not agree with yours. Thanks.


Eph, Phil, Col, 1&2Tim, Titus, and Philemon. Eph, Phil, Col, 2Tim, and maybe Philemon are often called the prison epistles, since their internal evidence shows they were written by Paul as a prisoner in Rome.

When I first learned this 30 years ago, a most important 1st verse was Philippians 1:10 . Where is says, "approve thing that are excellent", Strong's says, "try (or, test) the things that differ." Don't ask me why. Using the latter translation, one can probably find at least 50 solid differences between Paul's post-Acts epistles and Acts plus Paul's Acts epistles. I won't get into this now, but the dividing line is Acts of the Apostles 28:25-28 . Here's the two main differences. By Before, I mean during Acts and by After, I mean Paul's 7 post-Acts epistles. By the other 59 books, I mean all Bible books except for Paul's 7 post-Acts books.

In prophecy?
Before
- Acts of the Apostles 26:22 . Everything Paul taught, both to Jews and Gentiles, was based on prophecy. There is a mystery in Romans 16:25-26 . In vs 26, we find this mystery was hidden in the scripture of the prophets.
After - Ephesians 3:3 , Ephesians 3:9 , Colossians 1:26-27 , Everything taught was contained in a Mystery (secret) and was hid in God from every age and generation. Nothing about this can be found in any of the other 59 books.

Calling?
Before -
Galatians 4:26 , Hebrews 12 , The New Jerusalem, which isn't Heaven. It comes down out of Heaven and attaches to the New Earth. It is Heavenly in nature, but not in location. Similar to the Kingdom of Heaven, which will be on earth, but will be ruled by Heaven. There is no mention in any of the 59 books that anyone ever had a hope of going to heaven.
After - Compare Ephesians 1:20 (where Christ is now) with Ephesians 2:6 (where we'll be- exact same place). The Greek translated as Heavenly Places occurs only in Ephesians. See Philippians 3:20 , Our citizenship is in Heaven.

Brief notes on a couple of others

Chosen When?
Before
- 2 Thessalonians 2:13 , From (since) the beginning
After - Ephesians 1:4 , Before the foundation of the world. I know this sounds crazy, but sometimes, when I'm reading Ephesians, I feel that I was actually there, in Heavenly Places, before the world began. My Son says he feels the same thing. He's been into this longer than I have. It took him about 5 minutes, 30 years ago, to convince me that this was the only way to fly. Then, it took 10 years to totally erase all the Acts baggage that was polluting my mind

Hope?
Before
- the Rapture
After - Colossians 3:1-4 , the Appearing. Note that Glory in vs 4 is located above the heavens in Psalms 8:1 , at least in the KJV

Then, after testing the things that differ in Philippians 1:10 , you obey 2 Timothy 2:15 and rightly divide (Strong's: make a straight cut, correctly cut, correctly dissect) God's Word of Truth.

Strong's #3718: orthotomeo (pronounced or-thot-om-eh'-o)
from a compound of 3717 and the base of 5114, to make a straight cut, i.e. (figuratively) to dissect (expound) correctly (the divine message):--rightly divide.

Many modern Bibles use weak milky words, in this verse, like "rightly handling" or "handling aright", as used on the horrible ASV on this forum. From what I've learned, the idea of cutting God's word must be there. I believe that only one cut is required and its purpose is to separate every thing given only to Israel from everything given only to the Gentiles. Otherwise, there will be confusion and people will have to pick and choose between the Jewish and Gentile alternatives, and that's unacceptable. There's only one place this cut is possible - at the very end of Acts. That way, Paul's 7 post-Acts, all-Gentile books, are on one side of the cut and the other 59 all-Israel books are all on the other side. You then utilize only the post-Acts books for determining what God's plan is for you and your fellow Gentiles. You are not losing those other 59 books. You need them to learn a myriad of things. You just have to avoid them for things that personally will affect you and your family. As a bonus, if you cut the scripture rightly, you will be approved unto God and will have no reason to feel ashamed, as per 2 Timothy 2:15 , There is one huge universal exception to all of this - Christ's sacrifice on the cross and our subsequent salvation because of it. You can't divide it.

There's a jillion other things but that's enough for now. I presently have collected over 10,000 audios, averaging about 45 minutes each, and over 3000 books and articles by people who feel exactly the same way I do about these things. I didn't just make all this stuff up. It really truly works and I am positive it is the pinnacle of all methods of interpretation. There is probably not one mainstream denominational preacher in the world that Rightly Divides God's Word. This is the biggest reason Christianity is in such a horrible mess.

Both Philippians 1:10 and 2 Timothy 2:15 appear only in Paul's post-Acts epistles. This is not a coincidence. They were never needed before because everything written before was all-Israel. Only when Israel was set aside, as a nation, due to Paul's pronouncement of blindness, using Isaiah 6:9-10 for the 7th and last time in scripture, in Acts 28:25-27 , and a brand new, totally different, Gentile church was started, is right division needed. Gotta separate what is yours from what isn't yours, scripturally, if you are a genuine truthseeker..
 
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Saint Steven

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Eph, Phil, Col, 1&2Tim, Titus, and Philemon. Eph, Phil, Col, 2Tim, and maybe Philemon are often called the prison epistles, since their internal evidence shows they were written by Paul as a prisoner in Rome.

When I first learned this 30 years ago, a most important 1st verse was Phil 1:10. Where is says, "approve thing that are excellent", Strong's says, "try (or, test) the things that differ." Don't ask me why. Using the latter translation, one can probably find at least 50 solid differences between Paul's post-Acts epistles and Acts plus Paul's Acts epistles. I won't get into this now, but the dividing line is Acts of the Apostles 28: 25-28 . Here's the two main differences. By Before, I mean during Acts and by After, I mean Paul's 7 post-Acts epistles. By the other 59 books, I mean all Bible books except for Paul's 7 post-Acts books.

In prophecy?
Before
- Acts of the Apostles 26-22 . Everything Paul taught, both to Jews and Gentiles, was based on prophecy. There is a mystery in Romans 16:25-26 . In vs 26, we find this mystery was hidden in the scripture of the prophets.
After - Ephesians 3:3 , Ephesians 3:9 , Colossians 1:26-27 , Everything taught was contained in a Mystery (secret) and was hid in God from every age and generation. Nothing about this can be found in any of the other 59 books.

Calling?
Before -
Galatians 4:26 , Hebrews 12 , The New Jerusalem, which isn't Heaven. It comes down out of Heaven and attaches to the New Earth. It is Heavenly in nature, but not in location. Similar to the Kingdom of Heaven, which will be on earth, but will be ruled by Heaven. There is no mention in any of the 59 books that anyone ever had a hope of going to heaven.
After - Compare Ephesians 1:20 (where Christ is now) with Ephesians 2:6 (where we'll be- exact same place). The Greek translated as Heavenly Places occurs only in Ephesians. See Philippians 3:20 , Our citizenship is in Heaven.

Brief notes on a couple of others

Chosen When?
Before
- 2 Thessalonians 2:13 , From (since) the beginning
After - Ephesians 1:4 , Before the foundation of the world

Hope?
Before
- the Rapture
After - Colossians 3:1-4 , the Appearing. Note that Glory in vs 4 is located above the heavens in Psalms 8:1

Then, after testing the things that differ in Philippians 1:10 , you obey 2 Timothy 2:15 and rightly divide (Strong's: make a straight cut, correctly cut, correctly dissect) God's Word of Truth.

Strong's #3718: orthotomeo (pronounced or-thot-om-eh'-o)
from a compound of 3717 and the base of 5114, to make a straight cut, i.e. (figuratively) to dissect (expound) correctly (the divine message):--rightly divide.

Many modern Bibles use weak milky words, in this verse, like rightly handling. From what I've learned, the idea of cutting God's word must be there. I believe that only one cut is required and its purpose is to separate every thing given only to Israel from everything given only to the Gentiles. Otherwise, there will be confusion and people will have to pick and choose between the Jewish and Gentile alternatives, and that's unacceptable. There's only one place this cut is possible - at the very end of Acts. That way, Paul's 7 post-Acts, all-Gentile books, are on one side of the cut and the other 59 all-Israel books are all on the other side. You then utilize only the post-Acts books for determining what God's plan is for you and your fellow Gentiles. You are not losing those other 59 books. You need them to learn a myriad of things. You just have to avoid them for things that personally will affect you and your family. As a bonus, if you cut the scripture rightly, you will be approved unto God and will have no reason to feel ashamed, as per 2 Timothy 2:15 , There is one huge universal exception to all of this - Christ's sacrifice on the cross and our subsequent salvation because of it. You can't divide it.

There's a jillion other things but that's enough for now. I presently have collected over 10,000 audios, averaging about 45 minutes each, and over 3000 books and articles by people who feel exactly the same way I do about these things. I didn't just make all this stuff up. It really truly works and I am positive it is the pinnacle of all methods of interpretation. There is probably not one denominational preacher in the world that Rightly Divides God's Word. This is the biggest reason Christianity is in such a horrible mess.

Both Philippians 1:10 and 2 Timothy 2:15 appear only in Paul's post-Acts epistles. This is not a coincidence. They were never needed before because everything written before was all-Israel. Only when Israel was set aside, as a nation, due to Paul's pronouncement of blindness, using Isaiah 6:9-10 for the 7th and last time in scripture, in Acts 28:25-27 , and a brand new, totally different, Gentile church was started, is right division needed. Gotta separate what is yours from what isn't yours, if you are a real truthseeker..
Wow. Thanks for such a complete and thorough answer. I appreciate the effort.

- Steve
 
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● Gen 3:16 . .To the woman He said: Your desire will be for your husband.

What exactly is a marriage? Given Jesus Christ as our High Priest, and Jesus Christ sees everything, a commitment plus a consummation is a marriage.

A woman in 2010 had a "relationship" in sin. She may be technically married. It doesn't matter if a Secular Authority recognizes it or not. Spiritual she may have been married.

Some of females have plans. Many young girls have plans and a checklist for her husband and/or what their wedding will be like. What is the plan or picture society paints for young girls? A 16 year old, may have had a plan to be married at 25. Was she going to keep her virginity?

A girl who falls into sin is often made a liar. She may have many lovers or people she may secretly love. Given she had two long term boyfriends before 25, she may have her heart and soul tied to those two. Given she is single and 23 or 24, and broke up with someone going through an extended adolescence in college, she may have gone into panic because her plan wasn't quite working out, and looked for the next best thing, and settled with someone. Where was her heart and soul, and who is she really married to?

Christian societies value virgin brides. "Dating" as in how many people have viewed it most recently is more of a Counter Cultural things based in sin and rebellion. In terms of Post Modern Society, many people need to repent of their sins and seek Jesus Christ to renew and restore their souls, and cut soul ties.
 
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Eloy Craft

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Keep in mind that the Hebrew word here used for "for" or "towards" or "contrary" is actually used many times as "against" as well. The physical picture of this word is actually something leaning and relying on something else to stand up. This is why the term is used both for "for" and "against." If you can imagine a stick leaning up against a wall that is what this word is describing. So at the same time, in one context, the reason it is leaning against the wall is because it needs it to be supported but in another context the reason two people lean against one another is because they are wrestling and fighting one another so they are "against" each other.

In the context of the usage here it would be said that this word is at once both "for" and "against" which exemplifies the fickle nature of women towards men. Is the woman relying on the man or is the woman against him? This is actually the true nature of this phrase here. The good women rely on the man and lean on him for support. The contentious women constantly push against man challenging him at every step and leaving him no rest. This is the full meaning of this phrase.
This pans out in reality too. On an emotional level, it's natural for a woman to need a man. But it is not natural for a man to need a woman. In fact women almost always lose respect for emotionally needy men. This is our nature before the human zoo we have created. We are still hunter gatherers inside. In the wild a man could survive. Most women couldn't.
 
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This pans out in reality too. On an emotional level, it's natural for a woman to need a man. But it is not natural for a man to need a woman. In fact women almost always lose respect for emotionally needy men. This is our nature before the human zoo we have created. We are still hunter gatherers inside. In the wild a man could survive. Most women couldn't.

Oh good grief. Most modern people don't have the skills or knowledge to survive in the wild. But survival capability isn't particularly gender-based.

On an emotional level, to be honest, I think neediness in either sex is immaturity. When we're able to embrace one another, not out of need, but out of genuine desire for life partnership, that's maturity.

Why is it, I wonder, that immaturity is so often posited as "natural" for women? Why are we so often infantilised in our society?
 
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