2 thess 2:3 "Falling Away"? is it Blasphemy

1am3laine

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2 thess 2:3 KJV: Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;


2 thess 2:3 points out that a "falling away" will happen before the coming of the Lord.
In Greek it means Apostasia or Apostacy/Apostate.
The problem is the only way you can truly fall from Christianity is the blaspheme the Holy Spirit.
(matt 12:31-32, mark 3:28-30, luke 12:8-10)

I'm wondering is the falling away happening now because so many people are speaking against the Holy Spirit via the blasphemy challenge and twitter.

http://master-elaine.blogspot.com/2018/06/has-falling-away-begun-blasphemous.html<-- link here

The link above shows the blasphemous tweets.

Also the reason why taking the mark, name, or number (revelation 13:16-18) is unforgivable is because in 2 thess 2:4 he(anti-christ) will exalt himself above all that is worshiped and that included the Holy Spirit which is blasphemy and unforgivable.
So by default all that worshiped the anti-christ blasphemed the Holy Spirit.

https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/the-blasphemy-challenge-and-the-mark-of-the-beast.2171/

Tell me your thoughts
 

Chinchilla

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The problem is the only way you can truly fall from Christianity is the blaspheme the Holy Spirit.

Not true , if you are born of God you can't sin /blasphemy HS .
1 John 3:9 King James Version (KJV)
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.


That falling away refers to not church but overall falling away from faith. Some people view that as rapture but I do not think it refers to rapture but simply less and less people become believers and they fall away from sound doctrine .
 
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Douggg

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2 thess 2:3 KJV: Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;


2 thess 2:3 points out that a "falling away" will happen before the coming of the Lord.
In Greek it means Apostasia or Apostacy/Apostate.
The problem is the only way you can truly fall from Christianity is the blaspheme the Holy Spirit.
(matt 12:31-32, mark 3:28-30, luke 12:8-10)

I'm wondering is the falling away happening now because so many people are speaking against the Holy Spirit via the blasphemy challenge and twitter.

http://master-elaine.blogspot.com/2018/06/has-falling-away-begun-blasphemous.html<-- link here

The link above shows the blasphemous tweets.

Also the reason why taking the mark, name, or number (revelation 13:16-18) is unforgivable is because in 2 thess 2:4 he(anti-christ) will exalt himself above all that is worshiped and that included the Holy Spirit which is blasphemy and unforgivable.
So by default all that worshiped the anti-christ blasphemed the Holy Spirit.

https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/the-blasphemy-challenge-and-the-mark-of-the-beast.2171/

Tell me your thoughts
The falling away is one of two things that Paul said precedes the Day of the Lord, in 2Thessalonians2:3-4.

It can be understood what it is. It goes back to Paul's message to the Thesslaonians, in 1Thessalonians4:15-18 of the resurrection/rapture.

Paul continued in 1Thessalonians5 as to when.

It will be when people are saying Peace and Safety.

Some people say that is because of a peace treaty the Antichrist confirms or makes. But that notion, long standing in bible prophecy discussion circles, is wrong. The confirmation of the covenant will actually be the Mt. Sinai covenant for 7 years.

It is not widely known that Moses made a requirement in Deuteronomy 31:9-13 of all future leaders to make a speech (like Moses did) to the nation of Israel that God gave them the promised land as theirs forever... on a 7 year shmita cycle.

The Antichrist is actually a role to be the King of Israel, instead of the rightful King of Israel - Jesus. The Jews will think the little horn person is that person following Gog/Magog.... and it will be possible for the person to give the speech from the temple mount. Currently an impossibility because of the muslims.

So following Gog/Magog and the little horn person being the thought to be messiah by the Jews - it will be convincing to many in Christianity that the Jews were right all along. And there will be a following away from believing Jesus is the messiah. Which is what 2Thessalonians2:3 is talking about.

That goes on for about 3 years 3 months (we can only approximate) into the person's reign as their illegitimate King of Israel... until unexpectedly, the Antichrist goes into the temple, sits, claims to be God. Most likely claims to have achieved God hood - the person will have a unmatched ego of himself. In Daniel 8:25, it says he magnifies himself in his heart.

When the person goes into the temple and claims to be God, that act is called the transgression of desolation in Daniel 8:12-13. It will trigger the beginning of the Day of the Lord. It will be a betrayal to the Jews and their belief that he is the messiah. They will impeach him as continuing as their king - ending his
time in the role of being the Antichrist.

Which, the resurrection/rapture will happen before then (verse 10 in 1Thessalonians5). How far before - is not known.

When the person confirms the covenant for 7 years - that begins the 70th week. Pre-trib maintains that the resurrection/rapture will be before the 70th weeks starts. It may be, as the resurrection/rapture can happen anytime. Or it may be that the resurrection/rapture will not happen until after the 70th week and the falling away begins. But regardless, the body of Christ will not be here when the Day of the Lord begins.

There may be some falling away from believing in Jesus now, but it is not on the scale of what will happen following Gog/Magog and the Antichrist beginning his illegitimate King of Israel reign.
 
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Chinchilla

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The falling away is one of two things that Paul said precedes the Day of the Lord, in 2Thessalonians2:3-4.

It can be understood what it is. It goes back to Paul's message to the Thesslaonians, in 1Thessalonians4:15-18 of the resurrection/rapture.

Paul continued in 1Thessalonians5 as to when.

It will be when people are saying Peace and Safety.

Some people say that is because of a peace treaty the Antichrist confirms or makes. But that notion, long standing in bible prophecy discussion circles, is wrong. The confirmation of the covenant will actually be the Mt. Sinai covenant for 7 years.

It is not widely known that Moses made a requirement in Deuteronomy 31:9-13 of all future leaders to make a speech (like Moses did) to the nation of Israel that God gave them the promised land as theirs forever... on a 7 year shmita cycle.

The Antichrist is actually a role to be the King of Israel, instead of the rightful King of Israel - Jesus. The Jews will think the little horn person is that person following Gog/Magog.... and it will be possible for the person to give the speech from the temple mount. Currently an impossibility because of the muslims.

So following Gog/Magog and the little horn person being the thought to be messiah by the Jews - it will be convincing to many in Christianity that the Jews were right all along. And there will be a following away from believing Jesus is the messiah. Which is what 2Thessalonians2:3 is talking about.

That goes on for about 3 years 3 months (we can only approximate) into the person's reign as their illegitimate King of Israel... until unexpectedly, the Antichrist goes into the temple, sits, claims to be God. Most likely claims to have achieved God hood - the person will have a unmatched ego of himself. In Daniel 8:25, it says he magnifies himself in his heart.

When the person goes into the temple and claims to be God, that act is called the transgression of desolation in Daniel 8:12-13. It will trigger the beginning of the Day of the Lord. It will be a betrayal to the Jews and their belief that he is the messiah. They will impeach him as continuing as their king - ending his
time in the role of being the Antichrist.

Which, the resurrection/rapture will happen before then (verse 10 in 1Thessalonians5). How far before - is not known.

When the person confirms the covenant for 7 years - that begins the 70th week. Pre-trib maintains that the resurrection/rapture will be before the 70th weeks starts. It may be, as the resurrection/rapture can happen anytime. Or it may be that the resurrection/rapture will not happen until after the 70th week and the falling away begins. But regardless, the body of Christ will not be here when the Day of the Lord begins.

There may be some falling away from believing in Jesus now, but it is not on the scale of what will happen following Gog/Magog and the Antichrist beginning his illegitimate King of Israel reign.

This word Apostasia occurs only twice and the second time it was translated as forsake .

And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake G646 Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
 
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Kevin Snow

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The antichrist is NOT the king of Israel. He does NOT come from Israel but he comes from the NORTH country which is the kingdom of the beast which is the New World Order type of kingdom that unites nations under one syndicate. The antichrist actually is BORN out of Nineveh as prophesied by Nahum (Nahum1:11), rules out of the North country/ New World Order. It has NOTHING to do with Israel. Every single one of you who think this are going to be sorely mistaken. The bible actually teaches that there will be a prince of the covenant who comes and helps restore the temple in Jerusalem. It is through this person that we actually RETURN to God in heaven UNDER Yahshua as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. The falling away described is a falling away from all that God has taught and explained through this man by God's word.

Consider what this says:

For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. ~2 Thessalonians 2:7

And if you want to know the "he" in "until HE is out of the way" is referring to this prince of the covenant. This prince of the covenant is the one who is restraining lawlessness from being revealed and this word is actually referring to the time that he "is cut off and shall have nothing." This "falling away" CANNOT happen on the watch of the prince of the covenant. As long as the prince of the covenant draws breath, he is an obstacle to the man of lawlessness from accomplishing what he wants.

This mystery is all throughout scripture: the prince of the covenant is the behemoth as described in Job and the man of lawlessness is the leviathan. They are the worst and the best of these two peoples: the saved and the unsaved. And they do battle in the last days for this is he who gives the mortal wound to the man of lawlessness but by sorcery and workings of evil he does not die and kills the prince of the covenant with a flood.

All this is prophesied of in Revelations and Daniel and Job. This is the true story of what is about to happen.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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"Quotes of Leonard Ravenhill - Gospel Truth
https://www.gospeltruth.net/ravenhill.htm
Quotes of. LEONARD RAVENHILL. Nobody else can give you a clean heart but ..... I doubt if 5% of professing Christians in America are born again--and that's ..."

(frequent observation the last 200 years by proven men of God preaching His Word)

i.e. the fallen away is potentially much much greater than anyone realizes,
and it looks that way all over the earth.

There may be some falling away from believing in Jesus now, but it is not on the scale of what will happen following Gog/Magog and the Antichrist beginning his illegitimate King of Israel reign.
 
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Douggg

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The antichrist is NOT the king of Israel. He does NOT come from Israel but he comes from the NORTH country which is the kingdom of the beast which is the New World Order type of kingdom that unites nations under one syndicate.
Kevin, I have been over this before with you. The king of Israel itself is not the Antichrist. It is someone other than Jesus who is embraced by the Jews as the messiah and anointed the illegimate King of Israel is the Antichrist. He is illegitimate because God did not send him to be their king. He comes in his own name.

The Christ means the King of Israel (son of David). It is in Mark 15:32 and John 12:12-13. Anti is a prefix meaning instead of and against.

The person who becomes the Antichrist does not originate in Israel, but from somewhere in the EU.

The New Word Order is conspiracy talk - not bible prophecy talk.

The antichrist actually is BORN out of Nineveh as prophesied by Nahum (Nahum1:11), rules out of the North country/ New World Order.
The person who becomes the Antichrist is of the people who destroyed the city and temple, the Romans.

Nahim 1:11 does not contain a much information on the person, to make the kind of statements you are making..

Nahum 1:11 11 There is one come out of thee, that imagineth evil against the LORD, a wicked counsellor.
 
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Kevin Snow

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Kevin, I have been over this before with you. The king of Israel itself is not the Antichrist. It is someone other than Jesus who is embraced by the Jews as the messiah and anointed the illegimate King of Israel is the Antichrist. He is illegitimate because God did not send him to be their king. He comes in his own name.

The Christ means the King of Israel (son of David). It is in Mark 15:32 and John 12:12-13. Anti is a prefix meaning instead of and against.

The person who becomes the Antichrist does not originate in Israel, but from somewhere in the EU.

The New Word Order is conspiracy talk - not bible prophecy talk.


The person who becomes the Antichrist is of the people who destroyed the city and temple, the Romans.

Nahim 1:11 does not contain a much information on the person, to make the kind of statements you are making..

Nahum 1:11 11 There is one come out of thee, that imagineth evil against the LORD, a wicked counsellor.
You are wrong about many things. First the word "Christ" is the Greek form of "Messiah" and we all know that this is the word "Anointed One" or literally "the anointed."

There are many anointed people. The fact that Yahshua was anointed goes without saying. The key difference is the prophecies spoken of this anointed one, namely that he would take away the sins of the world.

So "Christ" has NOTHING to do with the king of Israel. There are many Christs. As it is we call ourselves Christians for this reason. We all are anointed in some measure now by the Holy Spirit but NONE of us are the King of Kings or the true King of Israel. Totally different.

Next, you clearly don't understand what prophecy is substantiated in when you misunderstand Nahum 1:11. All of prophecy is to be interpreted by a prophet. Therefore, in the same way that John the Baptist did NOT know who the Christ was but had his OWN word about who he would be, namely the one who had a dove descend upon him, so also must you have your OWN spiritual understanding and a prophetic understanding to interpret prophecy.

Therefore, I am telling you that Nahum 1:11 refers to the anitchrist's birth place. I am not asking. By the authority of Christ given to me, I have told you the truth and it's understanding.
 
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Douggg

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You are wrong about many things. First the word "Christ" is the Greek form of "Messiah" and we all know that this is the word "Anointed One" or literally "the anointed."
"the" messiah is one special anointed one, specifically the King of Israel, descended from David.

Mark 32:31 Likewise also the chief priests mocking said among themselves with the scribes, He saved others; himself he cannot save.

32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

John 12:12 On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,

13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.
 
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Kevin Snow

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"the" messiah is one special anointed one, specifically the King of Israel, descended from David.

Mark 32:31 Likewise also the chief priests mocking said among themselves with the scribes, He saved others; himself he cannot save.

32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

John 12:12 On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,

13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Why do you argue with baseless misunderstanding? Yahshua is Anointed AND is the King of Israel. The fact that some are anointed does NOT make them the King of Israel.

So the prince of the covenant is anointed but is not the King of Israel, just as David is not the king of Israel but the Holy One of Israel is the king of Israel.
 
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Revealing Times

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2 thess 2:3 KJV: Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;


2 thess 2:3 points out that a "falling away" will happen before the coming of the Lord.
In Greek it means Apostasia or Apostacy/Apostate.
The problem is the only way you can truly fall from Christianity is the blaspheme the Holy Spirit.
(matt 12:31-32, mark 3:28-30, luke 12:8-10)

I'm wondering is the falling away happening now because so many people are speaking against the Holy Spirit via the blasphemy challenge and twitter.

http://master-elaine.blogspot.com/2018/06/has-falling-away-begun-blasphemous.html<-- link here

The link above shows the blasphemous tweets.

Also the reason why taking the mark, name, or number (revelation 13:16-18) is unforgivable is because in 2 thess 2:4 he(anti-christ) will exalt himself above all that is worshiped and that included the Holy Spirit which is blasphemy and unforgivable.
So by default all that worshiped the anti-christ blasphemed the Holy Spirit.

https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/the-blasphemy-challenge-and-the-mark-of-the-beast.2171/

Tell me your thoughts
Is the Falling Away a false teaching ?

I have evolved with much study on this. I used to argue to all that there had to be this great Falling Away also. All because of this one passage. 2 Thessalonians 2:3. I do agree that the world gets far more evil towards the (now) end, as foretold in Romans chapter 1, and as Peter said, there will be scoffers in the last days etc. etc. But I do not think the True Church can "Fall Away", either you are of Christ/God or you are not, and will get left behind by the Bridegroom. Anyway, here is my understanding of 2 Thessalonians 2:3.

“Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction…” – 2 Thessalonians 2:3 (NASB) This verse is used by many and they say it implies a "Falling Away" from the faith. But a guy named Tommy Ice has shed some exceptional light on this passage.

Mr. Ice has pointed out that the Greek noun, apostasia, is used only twice in the New Testament. The other occurrence is in Acts 21:21 where it states that an accusation was made against Paul that he was “teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake [apostasia] Moses.”

The word is used in verb form a total of 15 times in the New Testament, and only three of these have anything to do with a departure from the faith (Luke 8:13, 1 Timothy 4:1, and Hebrews 3:12). In other settings, the word is used for departing from iniquity (2 Timothy 2:19), departing from ungodly men (1 Timothy 6:5), departing from the temple (Luke 2:27), departing from the body (2 Corinthians 12:8), and departing from persons (Acts 12:10 and Luke 4:13).

This insight about the use and meaning of the word was certainly compelling, but the argument Mr. Ice presented that was most convicting was his revelation that the first seven English translations of the Bible rendered the noun, apostasia, as either “departure” or “departing.”

They were as follows:

1.The Wycliffe Bible (1384)

2.The Tyndale Bible (1526)

3. The Coverdale Bible (1535)

4. The Cranmer Bible (1539)

5. The Great Bible (1540)

6. The Beeches Bible (1576)

7. The Geneva Bible (1608)

Mr. Ice also noted that the Bible used by the Western world from 400 AD to the 1500's - Jerome’s Latin translation known as “The Vulgate” - rendered apostasia with the Latin word, discessio, which means “departure.” The first translation of the word to mean apostasy in an English Bible did not occur until 1611 when the King James Version was issued. So, why did the King James translators introduce a completely new rendering of the word as “falling away”? The best guess is that they were taking a stab at the false teachings of Catholicism.



One other point Mr. Ice made that I think is significant is that Paul used a definite article with the word apostasia. The significance of this is emphasized by Daniel Davey in a thesis he wrote for the Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary:

Since the Greek language does not need an article to make the noun definite, it becomes clear that with the usage of the article, reference is being made to something in particular. In 2 Thessalonians 2:3 the word apostasia is prefaced by the definite article which means that Paul is pointing to a particular type of departure clearly known to the Thessalonian church.

In light of this grammatical point, Tommy observed that “the use of the definite article would support the notion that Paul spoke of a clear, discernible notion.” And that notion he had already identified in verse 1 when he stated that he was writing about “our gathering together to Him [Jesus].” This interpretation also corresponds to the point that Paul makes in verses 6 and 7 where he states that the man of lawlessness will not come until what “restrains” him “is taken out of the way.”

And what it is that restrains evil in the world today? The Holy Spirit working through the Church. I think when the Church Departs, the Anti-Christ will be free to come to power.

I do not think this has anything to do with a Falling Away. It is the Church Departing before the Anti-Christ is brought forth. The King James Bible changed the known understanding that has been around for 1100 years.
 
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Kevin Snow

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Is the Falling Away a false teaching ?

I have evolved with much study on this. I used to argue to all that there had to be this great Falling Away also. All because of this one passage. 2 Thessalonians 2:3. I do agree that the world gets far more evil towards the (now) end, as foretold in Romans chapter 1, and as Peter said, there will be scoffers in the last days etc. etc. But I do not think the True Church can "Fall Away", either you are of Christ/God or you are not, and will get left behind by the Bridegroom. Anyway, here is my understanding of 2 Thessalonians 2:3.

“Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction…” – 2 Thessalonians 2:3 (NASB) This verse is used by many and they say it implies a "Falling Away" from the faith. But a guy named Tommy Ice has shed some exceptional light on this passage.

Mr. Ice has pointed out that the Greek noun, apostasia, is used only twice in the New Testament. The other occurrence is in Acts 21:21 where it states that an accusation was made against Paul that he was “teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake [apostasia] Moses.”

The word is used in verb form a total of 15 times in the New Testament, and only three of these have anything to do with a departure from the faith (Luke 8:13, 1 Timothy 4:1, and Hebrews 3:12). In other settings, the word is used for departing from iniquity (2 Timothy 2:19), departing from ungodly men (1 Timothy 6:5), departing from the temple (Luke 2:27), departing from the body (2 Corinthians 12:8), and departing from persons (Acts 12:10 and Luke 4:13).

This insight about the use and meaning of the word was certainly compelling, but the argument Mr. Ice presented that was most convicting was his revelation that the first seven English translations of the Bible rendered the noun, apostasia, as either “departure” or “departing.”

They were as follows:

1.The Wycliffe Bible (1384)

2.The Tyndale Bible (1526)

3. The Coverdale Bible (1535)

4. The Cranmer Bible (1539)

5. The Great Bible (1540)

6. The Beeches Bible (1576)

7. The Geneva Bible (1608)

Mr. Ice also noted that the Bible used by the Western world from 400 AD to the 1500's - Jerome’s Latin translation known as “The Vulgate” - rendered apostasia with the Latin word, discessio, which means “departure.” The first translation of the word to mean apostasy in an English Bible did not occur until 1611 when the King James Version was issued. So, why did the King James translators introduce a completely new rendering of the word as “falling away”? The best guess is that they were taking a stab at the false teachings of Catholicism.



One other point Mr. Ice made that I think is significant is that Paul used a definite article with the word apostasia. The significance of this is emphasized by Daniel Davey in a thesis he wrote for the Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary:

Since the Greek language does not need an article to make the noun definite, it becomes clear that with the usage of the article, reference is being made to something in particular. In 2 Thessalonians 2:3 the word apostasia is prefaced by the definite article which means that Paul is pointing to a particular type of departure clearly known to the Thessalonian church.

In light of this grammatical point, Tommy observed that “the use of the definite article would support the notion that Paul spoke of a clear, discernible notion.” And that notion he had already identified in verse 1 when he stated that he was writing about “our gathering together to Him [Jesus].” This interpretation also corresponds to the point that Paul makes in verses 6 and 7 where he states that the man of lawlessness will not come until what “restrains” him “is taken out of the way.”

And what it is that restrains evil in the world today? The Holy Spirit working through the Church. I think when the Church Departs, the Anti-Christ will be free to come to power.

I do not think this has anything to do with a Falling Away. It is the Church Departing before the Anti-Christ is brought forth. The King James Bible changed the known understanding that has been around for 1100 years.
All that for you to just say it could be translated as "departure."

It's not "what" that restrains the man of lawlessness its "who." And the Holy Spirit is NEVER taken out of the way. It cannot be. This actually means that "he who restrains it" is a man himself. And it is as I pointed out in my original post. It is the prince of the covenant.
 
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Douggg

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Why do you argue with baseless misunderstanding? Yahshua is Anointed AND is the King of Israel. The fact that some are anointed does NOT make them the King of Israel.
Jesus is the rightful King of Israel, yes. God choose him for that purpose. But if you look over at Israel, Jerusalem, and the Jews - they don't accept or recognize him as such. They are looking for another person to be the messiah, to become their King of Israel. The person to fulfill their expectations will be the Antichrist.
 
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seventysevens

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All that for you to just say it could be translated as "departure."

It's not "what" that restrains the man of lawlessness its "who." And the Holy Spirit is NEVER taken out of the way. It cannot be. This actually means that "he who restrains it" is a man himself. And it is as I pointed out in my original post. It is the prince of the covenant.
The 'one being restrained, has been restrained for thousands of years , the antichrist/Man of Sin/beast is not just some random mortal man ,

Who can restrain the power of satan for thousands of years, only the Holy Spirit which is in the Body of believers(church) , take the believers out of the way , and the Holy Spirit simply permits the Man of Sin to step up into the spotlight center stage where he has been given to be - HE IS the strong delusion that GOD sends to those who remain unrepentant and refuse to believe the truth of the true messiah so they will believe the 'lie' that God sends in the form of a false messiah , , refusing to include all of the chapter leads to misunderstandings which you have fallen into
 
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Kevin Snow

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Jesus is the rightful King of Israel, yes. God choose him for that purpose. But if you look over at Israel, Jerusalem, and the Jews - they don't accept or recognize him as such. They are looking for another person to be the messiah, to become their King of Israel. The person to fulfill their expectations will be the Antichrist.
Look, just because the Israelites do not recognize Yahshua as the true Messiah but are looking for another does NOT mean that that other person is automatically the antichrist. There are prophecies that were NOT fulfilled by Yahshua and Yahshua himself interpreted "all the things concerning himself" to his disciples. He did not fulfill every prophecy. Neither are there prophecies left only to be fulfilled by his second coming. There ARE prophecies which are yet to be fulfilled by the 2nd Elijah. If there are 2 comings of the Messiah, there will be 2 Elijahs that prepare the way of his coming. The prince of the covenant is this second Elijah as described in Daniel 9 and 11. This is the person they are waiting for because without him they cannot even build the third temple. And there are MANY prophecies about this second Elijah who comes and sets things straight so that this word might be fulfilled:

They shall not hurt or destroy in all my holy mountain; for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD as the waters cover the sea. ~Isaiah 11:9

Just read that full passage. None of that was fulfilled yet but it will be fulfilled.
 
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jgr

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Is the Falling Away a false teaching ?

I have evolved with much study on this. I used to argue to all that there had to be this great Falling Away also. All because of this one passage. 2 Thessalonians 2:3. I do agree that the world gets far more evil towards the (now) end, as foretold in Romans chapter 1, and as Peter said, there will be scoffers in the last days etc. etc. But I do not think the True Church can "Fall Away", either you are of Christ/God or you are not, and will get left behind by the Bridegroom. Anyway, here is my understanding of 2 Thessalonians 2:3.

“Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction…” – 2 Thessalonians 2:3 (NASB) This verse is used by many and they say it implies a "Falling Away" from the faith. But a guy named Tommy Ice has shed some exceptional light on this passage.

Mr. Ice has pointed out that the Greek noun, apostasia, is used only twice in the New Testament. The other occurrence is in Acts 21:21 where it states that an accusation was made against Paul that he was “teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake [apostasia] Moses.”

The word is used in verb form a total of 15 times in the New Testament, and only three of these have anything to do with a departure from the faith (Luke 8:13, 1 Timothy 4:1, and Hebrews 3:12). In other settings, the word is used for departing from iniquity (2 Timothy 2:19), departing from ungodly men (1 Timothy 6:5), departing from the temple (Luke 2:27), departing from the body (2 Corinthians 12:8), and departing from persons (Acts 12:10 and Luke 4:13).

This insight about the use and meaning of the word was certainly compelling, but the argument Mr. Ice presented that was most convicting was his revelation that the first seven English translations of the Bible rendered the noun, apostasia, as either “departure” or “departing.”

They were as follows:

1.The Wycliffe Bible (1384)

2.The Tyndale Bible (1526)

3. The Coverdale Bible (1535)

4. The Cranmer Bible (1539)

5. The Great Bible (1540)

6. The Beeches Bible (1576)

7. The Geneva Bible (1608)

Mr. Ice also noted that the Bible used by the Western world from 400 AD to the 1500's - Jerome’s Latin translation known as “The Vulgate” - rendered apostasia with the Latin word, discessio, which means “departure.” The first translation of the word to mean apostasy in an English Bible did not occur until 1611 when the King James Version was issued. So, why did the King James translators introduce a completely new rendering of the word as “falling away”? The best guess is that they were taking a stab at the false teachings of Catholicism.



One other point Mr. Ice made that I think is significant is that Paul used a definite article with the word apostasia. The significance of this is emphasized by Daniel Davey in a thesis he wrote for the Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary:

Since the Greek language does not need an article to make the noun definite, it becomes clear that with the usage of the article, reference is being made to something in particular. In 2 Thessalonians 2:3 the word apostasia is prefaced by the definite article which means that Paul is pointing to a particular type of departure clearly known to the Thessalonian church.

In light of this grammatical point, Tommy observed that “the use of the definite article would support the notion that Paul spoke of a clear, discernible notion.” And that notion he had already identified in verse 1 when he stated that he was writing about “our gathering together to Him [Jesus].” This interpretation also corresponds to the point that Paul makes in verses 6 and 7 where he states that the man of lawlessness will not come until what “restrains” him “is taken out of the way.”

And what it is that restrains evil in the world today? The Holy Spirit working through the Church. I think when the Church Departs, the Anti-Christ will be free to come to power.

I do not think this has anything to do with a Falling Away. It is the Church Departing before the Anti-Christ is brought forth. The King James Bible changed the known understanding that has been around for 1100 years.
"Apostasia" as "rapture" was unknown in Christian orthodoxy until its sudden appearance in 1895.

Here is the elaboration on 2 Thes. 2:3 in the Wycliffe translation:

3 [That] No man deceive you in any manner. For but dissension come first [For no but departing away, or dissension, shall come first], and the man of sin be showed, the son of perdition

Note that dissension (consistent with apostasy, separation, schism) is the elaboration. Rapture is unseen.

Departing away as a synonym of dissension thus means departing away from the faith, i.e. apostasy, not rapture; falling away, not flying away.

Wycliffe identified the man of sin as the apostate papal antichrist, at whose hands the true church was suffering. He did not believe in a pretrib rapture of which he had never heard, and which had never occurred.

From Calvin's Geneva Study Bible:

Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Calvin also identified the man of sin as the papacy, and did not believe in a pretrib rapture of which he had never heard, and which had never occurred.
Same with Tyndale. He was martyred by the papacy.
Same with Cranmer. He too was martyred by the papacy.
Coverdale was an associate of Tyndale's, and of like persuasion.
Beza was also of like persuasion.

There is no Reformer who considered the word to mean anything other than departure from the faith.

A definition of "discessio," the word used in the Vulgate, is found at this site.

Included near the end is a specific ecclesiological subdefinition:
"In the church, a separation, schism (eccl. Lat.), Vulg. Act. 21, 21; id. 2 Thes. 2, 3."

Occurrences are cited as being Acts 21:21 and 2 Thes. 2:3.

Letting Scripture interpret Scripture, the use of the word in Acts 21:21 is translated "forsake," which is fully consistent with the subdefinition above, and has nothing to do with rapture.

Apostacia: What Modern Greeks say about "Apostacia" in 2 Thess 2:3.

Excerpt: "I could find no debate among Greek speaking Christians on how to interpret this verse. They all interpret "apostacia" in 2 Thess 2:3 to mean "apostacy"."

Does Apostasia in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Refer to a ‘Physical Departure’ (i.e. the Rapture)?

2 Thess 2:3 in the Early Church Writings; How early Greek, Latin and Aramaic speaking Christians interpreted "Apostacia"/"Apostacy

The Latin Influence on 2 Thess 2:3


Of the several dozen contemporary English Bible versions in existence, not a single version translates "apostasia" as "rapture", but rather as apostasy, falling away, or the equivalent.

The early church believed that the imperial Roman empire, under which the church was then living, was the restrainer which would eventually be "taken out of the way", but which was forestalling the emergence of the papal Roman empire, which Paul describes as the lawless one; and its eventual apostasy. Notice in the related verses in 2 Thess. 2 that Paul does not reveal the identity of the restrainer. If Paul had believed that the Holy Spirit or the Church was the restrainer, there would have been no reason for him not to explicitly name either one. But Paul did have a reason. John Chrysostom, an apologist of the later early post-apostolic era, reveals it:

"Because if he meant to say the Spirit, he would not have spoken obscurely, but plainly, that even now the grace of the Spirit, that is the gifts, withhold him...But because he said this of the Roman empire, he naturally glanced at it, and speaks covertly and darkly. For he did not wish to bring upon himself superfluous enmities, and useless dangers. For if he had said that after a little while the Roman empire would be dissolved, they would immediately have even overwhelmed him, as a pestilent person, and all the faithful, as living and warring to this end."

Paul did not wish to jeopardize the Church by attracting the attention of the Roman authorities.

History subsequently confirmed the validity of Paul's inspired prescience.
 
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Douggg

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If there are 2 comings of the Messiah, there will be 2 Elijahs that prepare the way of his coming.
One of the two witnesses (prophets) is likely to be Elijah. Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

The false prophet also will likely claim to be Elijah. Which Jews by tradition set a place at their Passover seder (meal) in anticipation of Elijah.

Neither the real, nor the false Elijah are the Antichrist, illegitimate King of Israel.
 
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Kevin Snow

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One of the two witnesses (prophets) is likely to be Elijah. Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

The false prophet also will likely claim to be Elijah. Which Jews by tradition set a place at their Passover seder (meal) in anticipation of Elijah.

Neither are the Antichrist.
The antichrist does not make any claim to be Yahshua. Neither does the false prophet claim to be anything in heaven. You don't understand what the falling away is. He claims to be God himself. Not to be the identity we know as God. He makes his own identity out to be God. You are not getting this. The falling away is special and of its own kind. There is NOTHING like it on the earth before it.

They speak against all those living in heaven. Do you understand this? They are not claiming to be heavenly beings themselves.
 
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Douggg

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The antichrist does not make any claim to be Yahshua.
Agreed. The Antichrist will be saying that Jesus was not the messiah.
Neither does the false prophet claim to be anything in heaven.
I have no idea what you mean by your statement.

The false prophet will likely claim to be Elijah. In Judaism, there is a belief that some people are resurrected. Which is what they believe about Elijah.

He claims to be God himself. Not to be the identity we know as God. He makes his own identity out to be God.
He - who? Who are you talking about? Start copy and pasting some bible passages and underline or color highlight what you are referring to.
You are not getting this. The falling away is special and of its own kind. There is NOTHING like it on the earth before it.
I have stated that the falling away will because many in Christianity sometime in the future will be convinced that the Antichrist, following Gog/Magog and anointed the King of Israel, is the true messiah and that the Jews were right all along. That has has not happened before in history.
They speak against all those living in heaven. Do you understand this? They are not claiming to be heavenly beings themselves.
They who? Copy and pasts the bible verse(s) you are referring to, and underline or color highlight the particular parts specific to your statements.
 
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