ALL FLESH shall see the salvation of the Lord

ewq1938

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Thanks for your input.
The word is actually 7 mountains, not hills.

The word can actually mean a hill or mountain because it doesn't denote the size of the object.



Hebrews 12
18
For ye have not come to a mountain that can be touched and to a blazing fire, and to darkness and gloom and whirlwind,
19
and to the blast of a trumpet and the sound of words which sound was such that those who heard begged that no further word be spoken to them.


Revelation 8:8
And the second Messenger trumpets,
and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea:
and the third part of the sea became blood;

The verses both have the words "fire" and "mountain" but the context is vastly different. In Hebrews the mountain is not on fire. The words "ye have NOT come..." means they did not come to a mountain on fire.
 
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ewq1938

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A bad translation on your part.

It's the KJV not my translation.

It's not "there are" but "they are" meaning their identity is tied to each other.

That is wrong plus I explained why that is impossible in my previous post. 5 kings had fallen yet 5 mountains are not fallen anywhere in Revelation until all 7 mountains are defeated with the entire beast. Please address that.
 
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Kevin Snow

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It's the KJV not my translation.



That is wrong plus I explained why that is impossible in my previous post. 5 kings had fallen yet 5 mountains are not fallen anywhere in Revelation until all 7 mountains are defeated with the entire beast. Please address that.
I have no trouble with them being the same thing. The mountain simply represents something solid for the woman to sit on. She's not going to be sitting on 7 kings will she? So this is why the mountains represent the people of the city of the king of Babylon. You've got 3 parts: the woman, the mountain and the king. The woman is the city, the mountain is the people and the king rules over those people. Not a problem at all.
 
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ewq1938

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I have no trouble with them being the same thing. The mountain simply represents something solid for the woman to sit on. She's not going to be sitting on 7 kings will she? So this is why the mountains represent the people of the city of the king of Babylon. You've got 3 parts: the woman, the mountain and the king. The woman is the city, the mountain is the people and the king rules over those people. Not a problem at all.

You are still not addressing the reason why they cannot be the same. Please re-read my post.
 
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Kevin Snow

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You are still not addressing the reason why they cannot be the same. Please re-read my post.
Is not Rome still standing? Rome was the 6th Babylon under Caesar Augustus/Octavian. So the "mountain" is still there but the Babelic dynasty has fallen. There is no problem in the mountain and the kings being ABOUT the same thing; pointing to the same thing.
 
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ewq1938

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Is not Rome still standing?

That's my point. Rome fell long ago but the 7 mountains will arise (Rev 13:1) 5 had not fallen in the past because they don't exist in the past but the future:

Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

Five of these had never fallen and aren't shown to fall either. One of these is not falling in the time of John. That's why these aren't the 7 kings mentioned in Rev 17.

Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

That one that continues a short space is the Rev 13:1 beast and it's king, the false prophet. You are confusing past kingdoms/kings with the kingdom that arises during the tribulation. The two passages cannot be merged together as you have tried to do. Either you will get it or not...I have explained it as thoroughly as can be.
 
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Kevin Snow

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That's my point. Rome fell long ago but the 7 mountains will arise (Rev 13:1) 5 had not fallen in the past because they don't exist in the past but the future:

Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

Five of these had never fallen and aren't shown to fall either. One of these is not falling in the time of John. That's why these aren't the 7 kings mentioned in Rev 17.

Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

That one that continues a short space is the Rev 13:1 beast and it's king, the false prophet. You are confusing past kingdoms/kings with the kingdom that arises during the tribulation. The two passages cannot be merged together as you have tried to do. Either you will get it or not...I have explained it as thoroughly as can be.
You have no scriptural basis for this interpretation and it is clearly not the correct sense of the passage. You are confusing too many things together and misplacing them. This is all I can say. I recommend you read my book.

Your conclusion is not even logical.
 
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ewq1938

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You have no scriptural basis for this interpretation and it is clearly not the correct sense of the passage. You are confusing too many things together and misplacing them. This is all I can say. I recommend you read my book.

Your conclusion is not even logical.


I expected that response. Take care :)
 
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BABerean2

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All Flesh and Revelation 17 and 19
The phrase "all flesh" is used only 4 times in the NT

Here are a few verses from the OT:

Isaiah 40:5

The glory of the LORD shall be revealed,
And all flesh shall see it together; [Luke 3:6]
For the mouth of the LORD has spoken.”


Zechariah 2:13
"Hush!, all flesh before Yahweh, [Revelation 8:1]
that He is roused from His holy habitation


Strong's Number G4561 matches the Greek σάρξ (sarx), which occurs 151 times in 130 verses

Luke 3:6

"And shall-be-seeing all flesh the Salvation of the God"

John 17:2
“as You have given Him authority over all flesh,
that He should[fn] give eternal life to as many as You have given Him
.


I find it rather interesting that out of the 130 verses, #4561 is used in the NT,
it is used only in 3 verses of Revelation.


Revelation 17:16
And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the prostitue,
and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat Her flesh and burn her with fire.


It appears that these are those that are in that Great City shown in Revelation 17:16?

Revelation 19
18 that ye may eat flesh of kings, and flesh of chiefs of thousands, and flesh of strong men, and flesh of horses, and of those sitting on them, and the flesh of all — freemen and servants — both small and great.’

21 and the rest were killed with the sword of Him Who is sitting on the horse, which [sword] is proceeding out of His mouth,

and all the birds were filled out of their flesh.


Getting back to the thread...

Notice the word "all" in the passage below.

The bodily resurrection of "all" the dead is bracketed with verses showing that Christ is the judge.

Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Joh 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.


This is when "all" flesh will see the salvation of the Lord.

The timing of the event is found below.


Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.



Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

.
 
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BABerean2

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Same as "all Irsael shall be saved "

You left out one little very important word.

Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:



Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

.


.
 
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Chinchilla

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You left out one little very important word.

Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:



Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

.


.

Was Judas grafted in ? Will the rich man who treated Lazarus like dog be saved from hell ?
 
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Chinchilla

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No.
No.

(rhetorical? / too obvious?)


p.s. realize the 'rich man' in the parable was not a specific man, nor was lazarus.

Not parable , in parables people don't have names .
Also there was another specific man called Father Abraham . Unless you think that there were two Abrahams which were called Father .
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Not parable , in parables people don't have names .
Also there was another specific man called Father Abraham . Unless you think that there were two Abrahams which were called Father .
Yes, they can have names in parables.

Jesus was telling a story to those who opposed Him, using their own beliefs about the place of the dead or the resurrection
and exposing their beliefs by this story - it(the story Jesus told) never happened in fact.
 
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Chinchilla

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Yes, they can have names in parables.

Jesus was telling a story to those who opposed Him, using their own beliefs about the place of the dead or the resurrection
and exposing their beliefs by this story - it(the story Jesus told) never happened in fact.

Why do you think that ?
 
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Chinchilla

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Because that's what Jesus did. (Just as written in Scripture)

So is this also a story ?
Mark 9:44-48 King James Version (KJV)
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
 
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