LDS Mormon View of the Bible

I am tired of thinking and have people to attend to. Bye for now all

Daniel Marsh said:

I Believe that JC is fully God and fully Man on earth. His Resurrected body while on earth did have physical characteristics as post resurrection texts say.
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I think it is verse 43 where our friends get the concept of Spiritual body. It is the accounts in the Gospels that demonstrates that his body has physical aspects. Since, my knowledge is limited, I can only guess since I am not in heaven yet.

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That you for acknowledging that you belief God can indeed have a male physical body and that doesn't diminish his divinity.

Daniel Marsh said:

Col 3
Take off the old human nature with its practices 10 and put on the new nature, which is renewed in knowledge by conforming to the image of the one who created it. 11 In this image there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all things and in all people.

12 Therefore, as God’s choice, holy and loved, put on compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience. 13 Be tolerant with each other and, if someone has a complaint against anyone, forgive each other. As the Lord forgave you, so also forgive each other. 14 And over all these things put on love, which is the perfect bond of unity. 15 The peace of Christ must control your hearts—a peace into which you were called in one body. And be thankful people. 16 The word of Christ must live in you richly. Teach and warn each other with all wisdom by singing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs. Sing to God with gratitude in your hearts.

In the above text, we have Christ's true image, which does not include sexual identity.

Romans 8
24 We were saved in hope. If we see what we hope for, that isn’t hope. Who hopes for what they already see? 25 But if we hope for what we don’t see, we wait for it with patience.

26 In the same way, the Spirit comes to help our weakness. We don’t know what we should pray, but the Spirit himself pleads our case with unexpressed groans. 27 The one who searches hearts knows how the Spirit thinks, because he pleads for the saints, consistent with God’s will. 28 We know that God works all things together for good for the ones who love God, for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 We know this because God knew them in advance, and he decided in advance that they would be conformed to the image of his Son. That way his Son would be the first of many brothers and sisters. 30 Those who God decided in advance would be conformed to his Son, he also called. Those whom he called, he also made righteous. Those whom he made righteous, he also glorified.

Here Christ's image includes both male and female.

I guess we do not need a thread on what it means to be a child of God now.

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek; there is neither slave nor free; nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Ladies are included in Christ.

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(New Testament | Romans 8:29)

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

There is no and sisters there.

He is the way said:

(New Testament | Romans 8:29)

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

There is no and sisters there.

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Women would be included in "whom". It does not say Whom is male only.

Jane_Doe said:

That you for acknowledging that you belief God can indeed have a male physical body and that doesn't diminish his divinity.

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Thank You

Lost the post in this thread, but it is the responsibility of the person claiming something is affirmative. It is up to LDS to prove that God the Father was a resurrected human. One claiming the negative does not have to prove their claim, esp., since the Bible does not claim what LDS claim.

For example, an Atheist claims there is no God, but since us Theists claims that God exists, it is up to us to give the proofs that he does in fact exist.

The Negative simply points out the lack of proof that one making the affirmative and does not have to prove God does not exist.

back to work

He is the way said:

Please give the reference that states that God the Father was never resurrected.

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Lol. Please give the Biblical reference that he was. After all, you made the claim.

BigDaddy4 said:

Lol. Please give the Biblical reference that he was. After all, you made the claim.

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That is the whole point the one making the Affirmative claim has the responsibility to prove it. The Negative Claim is simply based on the lack of evidence.

Daniel Marsh said:

That is the whole point the one making the Affirmative claim has the responsibility to prove it. The Negative Claim is simply based on the lack of evidence.

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Numbers 23:19-20 New International Reader's Version (NIRV)
19 God isn’t a mere human. He can’t lie.
He isn’t a human being. He doesn’t change his mind.
He speaks, and then he acts.
He makes a promise, and then he keeps it.
20 He has commanded me to bless Israel.
He has given them his blessing. And I can’t change it.

Now, try and prove your claim from the Bible Alone because we do not accept your extra books as authoritative.

Daniel Marsh said:

Now, try and prove your claim from the Bible Alone because we do not accept your extra books as authoritative.

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So you're saying that a group can't use their own materials to explain their own theology?

What would you do if someone told you to explain your personal theology without using the Bible?

"Anthropomorphites maintain their doctrine in defiance of verses, such as John 4:24, where Jesus teaches us: "God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth." This means God has no body, because a spirit is, by nature, an incorporeal being. As Jesus tells us elsewhere, "a spirit has not flesh and bones" (Luke 24:39).

...

Tatian the Syrian



"Our God has no introduction in time. He alone is without beginning, and is himself the beginning of all things. God is a spirit, not attending upon matter, but the maker of material spirits and of the appearances which are in matter. He is invisible, being himself the Father of both sensible and invisible things" (Address to the Greeks 4 [A.D. 170]).



Athenagoras



"I have sufficiently demonstrated that we are not atheists, since we acknowledge one God, unbegotten, eternal, invisible, incapable of being acted upon, incomprehensible, unbounded, who is known only by understanding and reason, who is encompassed by light and beauty and spirit and indescribable power, by whom all things, through his Word, have been produced and set in order and are kept in existence" (Plea for the Christians 10 [A.D. 177]).



Irenaeus



"Far removed is the Father of all from those things which operate among men, the affections and passions. He is simple, not composed of parts, without structure, altogether like and equal to himself alone. He is all mind, all spirit, all thought, all intelligence, all reason . . . all light, all fountain of every good, and this is the manner in which the religious and the pious are accustomed to speak of God" (Against Heresies 2:13:3 [A.D. 189]).



Clement of Alexandria



"The first substance is everything which subsists by itself, as a stone is called a substance. The second is a substance capable of increase, as a plant grows and decays. The third is animated and sentient substance, as animal, horse. The fourth is animate, sentient, rational substance, as man. Wherefore each one of us is made as consisting of all, having an immaterial soul and a mind, which is the image of God" (Fragment from On Providence [A.D. 200]).

"Being is in God. God is divine being, eternal and without beginning, incorporeal and illimitable, and the cause of what exists. Being is that which wholly subsists. Nature is the truth of things, or the inner reality of them. According to others, it is the production of what has come to existence; and according to others, again, it is the providence of God, causing the being, and the manner of being, in the things which are produced" (ibid.).

"What is God? ‘God,’ as the Lord says, ‘is a spirit.’ Now spirit is properly substance, incorporeal, and uncircumscribed. And that is incorporeal which does not consist of a body, or whose existence is not according to breadth, length, and depth. And that is uncircumscribed which has no place, which is wholly in all, and in each entire, and the same in itself" (ibid.).

"No one can rightly express him wholly. For on account of his greatness he is ranked as the All, and is the Father of the universe. Nor are any parts to be predicated of him. For the One is indivisible; wherefore also it is infinite, not considered with reference to inscrutability, but with reference to its being without dimensions, and not having a limit. And therefore it is without form" (Miscellanies 5:12 [A.D. 208]).



Origen



"Since our mind is in itself unable to behold God as he is, it knows the Father of the universe from the beauty of his works and from the elegance of his creatures. God, therefore, is not to be thought of as being either a body or as existing in a body, but as a simple intellectual being, admitting within himself no addition of any kind" (Fundamental Doctrines 1:1:6 [A.D. 225]).

"John says in the gospel, ‘No one has at any time seen God,’ clearly declaring to all who are able to understand, that there is no nature to which God is visible, not as if he were indeed visible by nature, and merely escaped or baffled the view of a frailer creature, but because he is by nature impossible to be seen" (ibid. 1:1:8).



Athanasius



"God, however, being without parts, is Father of the Son without division and without being acted upon. For neither is there an effluence from that which is incorporeal, nor is there anything flowering into him from without, as in the case of men. Being simple in nature, he is Father of one only Son" (Letter on the Council of Nicaea 11 [A.D. 350]).



Didymus the Blind



"God is simple and of an incomposite and spiritual nature, having neither ears nor organs of speech. A solitary essence and illimitable, he is composed of no numbers and parts" (The Holy Spirit 35 [A.D. 362]).



Hilary of Poitiers



"First it must be remembered that God is incorporeal. He does not consist of certain parts and distinct members, making up one body. For we read in the gospel that God is a spirit: invisible, therefore, and an eternal nature, immeasurable and self-sufficient. It is also written that a spirit does not have flesh and bones. For of these the members of a body consist, and of these the substance of God has no need. God, however, who is everywhere and in all things, is all-hearing, all-seeing, all-doing, and all-assisting" (Commentary on the Psalms 129[130]:3 [A.D. 365]).



Basil the Great



Augustine



"In created and changeable things what is not said according to substance can only be said according to accident. . . . In God, however, certainly there is nothing that is said according to accident, because in him there is nothing that is changeable, but neither is everything that is said of him according to substance" (The Trinity 5:5:6 [A.D. 408]).



Cyril of Alexandria




"When the divine Scripture presents sayings about God and remarks on corporeal parts, do not let the mind of those hearing it harbor thoughts of tangible things, but from those tangible things as if from things said figuratively let it ascend to the beauty of things intellectual, and rather than figures and quantity and circumscriptions and shapes and everything else that pertains to bodies, let it think on God, although he is above all understanding. We were speaking of him in a human way, for there is no other way in which we could think about the things that are above us" (Commentary on the Psalms 11[12]:3 [A.D. 429]).

"https://www.catholic.com/tract/god-has-no-body

"Question: "Does God have a physical body?"

Answer: Both the Bible and good philosophy report that God is non-physical - spirit. In John 4:24 it is said that God is spirit (see also Luke 24:39; Romans 1:20; Colossians 1:15; 1 Timothy 1:17). This is why no material thing was to be used to represent God (Exodus 20:4). But this can also be shown by reflecting on what God is. Philosophically the same truth comes through. All that is created is necessarily finite and limited. But the first cause (God) is uncreated, and therefore must be non-finite, or infinite. That which is beyond the finite must, by definition, be infinite, and the Bible states that God is beyond creation (1 Kings 8:27; Job 11:7-9; Isaiah 66:1-2; Colossians 1:17). That which is physical cannot be infinite - for you cannot add finite parts together until they reach infinity. Therefore God is spirit as opposed to physical/material in His Being. This does not mean He cannot localize a physical appearance. God is not composed of matter nor any other imaginable substance. He also cannot be measured, is not spatial, and has no true location (presence is a different concept)."https://www.gotquestions.org/God-physical-body.html

Daniel Marsh said:

"Question: "Does God have a physical body?"

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You already answered how you believe God (Christ) does have a body.

This is where the LDS claim comes from, "God the Father and Jesus Christ, both perfected and glorified beings, possess tangible resurrected bodies of flesh and bone (D&C 130:22). "http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Physical_Body

Since D&C is not authoritative for us, this reference is not a proof to us.
It is proof that JS is a false prophet and false teacher.

2 Peter 1:12-16 New International Reader's Version (NIRV)

12 So I will always remind you of these things. I’ll do it even though you know them. I’ll do it even though you now have deep roots in the truth. 13 I think it is right for me to remind you. It is right as long as I live in this tent. I’m talking about my body. 14 I know my tent will soon be removed. Our Lord Jesus Christ has made that clear to me. 15 I hope that you will always be able to remember these things after I’m gone. I will try very hard to see that you do.

16 We told you about the time our Lord Jesus Christ came with power. But we didn’t make up clever stories when we told you about it. With our own eyes we saw him in all his majesty.

Isa. 8:20. "To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them."

Colossians 2:8 Make sure no one controls you. They will try to control you by using false reasoning that has no meaning. Their ideas depend on human teachings. They also depend on the basic spiritual powers of this world. They don’t depend on Christ.

1 Thessalonians 4:8 Suppose someone refuses to accept our teaching. They are not turning their back on us. They are turning their back on God. This same God gives you his Holy Spirit.

2 Thessalonians 3:6 [ Paul Warns Those Who Do Not Want to Work ] Brothers and sisters, here is a command we give you. We give it in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Keep away from every believer who doesn’t want to work and makes trouble. Keep away from any believer who doesn’t live up to the teaching you received from us.


2 Thessalonians 3:14 Keep an eye on anyone who doesn’t obey the teachings in our letter. Don’t have anything to do with that person. Then they will feel ashamed.


1 Timothy 1:3 [ Paul Warns Timothy to Oppose False Teachers ] Timothy, stay there in Ephesus. That is what I told you to do when I went into Macedonia. I want you to command certain people not to teach things that aren’t true.


1 Timothy 1:6 Some have turned from these teachings. They would rather talk about things that have no meaning.


1 Timothy 1:7 They want to be teachers of the law. And they are very sure about that law. But they don’t know what they are talking about.

1 Timothy 4:2Teachings like those come from liars who pretend to be what they are not. Their sense of what is right and wrong has been destroyed. It’s as though it has been burned with a hot iron.

1 Timothy 6:1 All who are forced to serve as slaves should consider their masters worthy of full respect. Then people will not speak evil things against God’s name and against what we teach.

1 Timothy 6:3
Suppose someone teaches something different than I have taught. Suppose that person doesn’t agree with the true teaching of our Lord Jesus Christ. Suppose they don’t agree with godly teaching.

2 Timothy 2:14 [ What to Do About False Teachers ] Keep reminding God’s people of these things. While God is watching, warn them not to argue about words. That doesn’t have any value. It only destroys those who listen.

2 Timothy 2:15 Do your best to please God. Be a worker who doesn’t need to be ashamed. Teach the message of truth correctly.

2 Timothy 2:17 Their teaching will spread like a deadly sickness. Hymenaeus and Philetus are two of those teachers.


2 Timothy 4:3 The time will come when people won’t put up with true teaching. Instead, they will try to satisfy their own desires. They will gather a large number of teachers around them. The teachers will say what the people want to hear.

Titus 1:11
They must be stopped. They are making trouble for entire families. They do this by teaching things they shouldn’t. They do these things to cheat people.

2 Peter 2:1 [ False Teachers Will Be Destroyed ] But there were also false prophets among the people. In the same way there will be false teachers among you. In secret they will bring in teachings that will destroy you. They will even turn against the Lord and Master who died to pay for their sins. So they will quickly destroy themselves.

2 Peter 2:2 Many people will follow their lead. These people will do the same evil things the false teachers do. They will cause people to think badly about the way of truth.

2 Peter 2:3 These teachers are never satisfied. They want to get something out of you. So they make up stories to take advantage of you. They have been under a sentence of death for a long time. The God who will destroy them has not been sleeping.

1 John 4:4 Dear children, you belong to God. You have not accepted the teachings of the false prophets. That’s because the one who is in you is powerful. He is more powerful than the one who is in the world.

2 John 1:9 Suppose someone thinks they know more than we do. So they don’t follow Christ’s teaching. Then that person doesn’t belong to God. But whoever follows Christ’s teaching belongs to the Father and the Son.

2 John 1:10 Suppose someone comes to you and doesn’t teach these truths. Then don’t take them into your house or welcome them.

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not really part of us. If they had been part of us, they would have stayed with us. But by going out from us, they showed they all are not part of us.

1 John 4:6 We are from God. The person who knows God listens to us. Whoever is not from God doesn’t listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

I have shown historically that the Church does not teach that God the Father is a resurrected being. I also quoted the Bible that God is not a man who is double minded. I also brought up how LDS proof text the Bible using Anthropomorphites. Using the same proof texting one can make God a big bird.

God's Wings

Psalm 91:4

He will cover you with His pinions, And under His wings you may seek refuge; His faithfulness is a shield and bulwark.

Deuteronomy 32:11

"Like an eagle that stirs up its nest, That hovers over its young, He spread His wings and caught them, He carried them on His pinions.

Psalm 17:8
Verse Concepts
Keep me as the apple of the eye; Hide me in the shadow of Your wings

Psalm 36:7

How precious is Your lovingkindness, O God! And the children of men take refuge in the shadow of Your wings.

Psalm 57:1

Be gracious to me, O God, be gracious to me, For my soul takes refuge in You; And in the shadow of Your wings I will take refuge Until destruction passes by.

Psalm 61:4

Let me dwell in Your tent forever; Let me take refuge in the shelter of Your wings. Selah.

Psalm 63:7

For You have been my help, And in the shadow of Your wings I sing for joy.

Jeremiah 49:22

Behold, He will mount up and swoop like an eagle and spread out His wings against Bozrah; and the hearts of the mighty men of Edom in that day will be like the heart of a woman in labor.

Jane_Doe said:

You already answered how you believe God (Christ) does have a body.

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Context is about God the Father having a physical body. We all agree on Jesus.

Daniel Marsh said:

Context is about God the Father having a physical body. We all agree on Jesus.

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The statement "God is a spirit and doesn't have a body" is incorrect for Creedal theology and LDS.