What is it with "east"?

Inkfingers · Jul 8, 2018

Reading Genesis again I notice that the further east you go, the further you get from God.

To begin with, God plants a garden to the east of his location (Genesis 2:8), then when man is expelled he is sent further eastwards (Genesis 3:24), and finally when Cain is expelled even further, he goes into Nod which to is yet further eastwards (Genesis 4:16).

So what exactly is it about East and West that lays behind this?

Any ideas?

Strathos · Jul 8, 2018

Well if you go east or west far enough you eventually end up coming from the opposite direction. So perhaps it's symbolic of separation from God like you said, but even as we continue to go further 'east', we will eventually wrap around the sphere and come from the west, and find God again (Revelation 7:9-17).

Inkfingers · Jul 8, 2018

Strathos said:
Well if you go east or west far enough you eventually end up coming from the opposite direction. So perhaps it's symbolic of separation from God like you said, but even as we continue to go further 'east', we will eventually wrap around the sphere and come from the west, and find God again (Revelation 7:9-17).

Somehow I don't think that is what it is getting at. It doesn't sound like a "go far enough and you come back the other way". It sounds like a distancing, so I'm wondering why east (and why God is then westward).

East is the future (its where the new day rises from) and west is the past (its where the old day sinks into).

Strathos · Jul 8, 2018

Inkfingers said:
Somehow I don't think that is what it is getting at. It doesn't sound like a "go far enough and you come back the other way". It sounds like a distancing, so I'm wondering why east (and why God is then westward).

East is the future (its where the new day rises from) and west is the past (its where the old day sinks into).

Possibly, I was just offering a suggestion. Although my idea was less about going far enough in one direction that you will end up where you started and more about God allowing certain things to happen because they will lead to an eventual positive fate.

συνείδησις · Jul 8, 2018

Inkfingers said:
East is the future (its where the new day rises from) and west is the past (its where the old day sinks into).

Actually sunset marks the beginning of a day.

Inkfingers · Jul 8, 2018

συνείδησις said:
Actually sunset marks the beginning of a day.

Yes, I thought of that afterwards - Judaism beginning the day at sunset, but the future does come from the east so to speak - that seems to be the way that time passes.

GodsGrace101 · Jul 8, 2018

Inkfingers said:
Reading Genesis again I notice that the further east you go, the further you get from God.

To begin with, God plants a garden to the east of his location (Genesis 2:8), then when man is expelled he is sent further eastwards (Genesis 3:24), and finally when Cain is expelled even further, he goes into Nod which to is yet further eastwards (Genesis 4:16).

So what exactly is it about East and West that lays behind this?

Any ideas?

East is all the world they knew.
There were other people and places East.

What was West? The ocean, and nothing that they knew of.
Many times in the O.T., as I'm sure you all know, when the "world" is spoken of, it means the known world.

The known world was to the east.

2 cents worth...

Inkfingers · Jul 8, 2018

GodsGrace101 said:
East is all the world they knew.
There were other people and places East.

What was West? The ocean, and nothing that they knew of.
Many times in the O.T., as I'm sure you all know, when the "world" is spoken of, it means the known world.

The known world was to the east.

2 cents worth...

Yes, that's an interesting point...but it does kind of put God in the ocean if these places are east of Him.

dzheremi · Jul 8, 2018

"When therefore thou renouncest Satan, utterly breaking all thy covenant with him, that ancient league with hell, there is opened to thee the paradise of God, which He planted towards the East, whence for his transgression our first father was banished; and a symbol of this was thy turning from West to East, the place of lights."

-- St. Cyril of Jerusalem (d. 386), Catechetical Lecture XIX

The East is associated with banishment, exile, and return. Hence we pray toward the East, in hopes of returning to our natural state of being with God, we are told to "look toward the East" before the reading of the Gospel in the liturgy, we (in the Coptic tradition, anyhow) make the sign of the cross by drawing our hand from the left shoulder (west) to the right (east), symbolic of our Lord's returning us after His coming down from heaven (the forehead to breast motion) from our state of exile back to Eden, and so on.

You will have noticed, I'm sure, that while "East" and "West" are used, these are relative directions (e.g., to a Christian in China, praying towards Jerusalem would be praying towards the West), so it is beneficial to have a more allegorical understanding of this phrasing. Besides, from what I was able to find in Hebrew via a quick Google search, the word actually used in Genesis for "East", miqqedem, is not necessarily the same as the one used for directional East (mizrakh), and actually means in other contexts "old, ancient, olden days", etc., so it must have a wider application depending on context.

Inkfingers · Jul 8, 2018

dzheremi said:
from what I was able to find in Hebrew via a quick Google search, the word actually used in Genesis for "East", miqqedem, is not necessarily the same as the one used for directional East (mizrakh), and actually means in other contexts "old, ancient, olden days", etc., so it must have a wider application depending on context.

That's interesting - with the place that the sun leaves behind being then taken to be representative of the past perhaps...

συνείδησις · Jul 8, 2018

If banishment from GOD is to the east, then If you follow the sun you will find GOD.

JAM2b · Jul 8, 2018

I don't know that going East is significant. It could just be that's the general direction that people migrated to.

God is everywhere. You can't truly move away from Him in a physical sense.

Inkfingers · Jul 8, 2018

συνείδησις said:
If banishment from GOD is to the east, then If you follow the sun you will find GOD.

That's an interesting idea. Care to unpack it?

JAM2b · Jul 8, 2018

If it was intentional then perhaps it was God's way of providing for them even when they were sent away from where they were at. To the East they could find resources. When God punishes people, it seems that He still sustains their lives except for when He decides to take their life.

Inkfingers · Jul 8, 2018

JAM2b said:
I don't know that going East is significant. It could just be that's the general direction that people migrated to.

God is everywhere. You can't truly move away from Him in a physical sense.

But east is specifically used - so that Eden is east of wherever God was when he decided to make Eden....and the others repeatedly use east as a sign of those getting further away.

SonOfZion · Jul 8, 2018

Psalms 103:12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath He removed our transgressions from us.

The word for North is Tsaphown in Hebrew, the word that it comes from is Tsaphan, which means Hidden, something that is coming from the future-unknown.

Psa 75:6 For promotion cometh neither from the east, nor from the west, nor from the south.

(lucifer rebelled, wanted to usurp the Throne of Elohim, which is north/hidden)

Isa 14:13

For thou hast said in thine heart, i will ascend into heaven, i will exalt my throne above the stars of God: i will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

East - qidmah: forward, front, east, antiquity (The past), East

West - Yam: Sea, West

South - Negev: Desert - South

Doctor.Sphinx · Jul 8, 2018

Inkfingers said:
Reading Genesis again I notice that the further east you go, the further you get from God.

To begin with, God plants a garden to the east of his location (Genesis 2:8), then when man is expelled he is sent further eastwards (Genesis 3:24), and finally when Cain is expelled even further, he goes into Nod which to is yet further eastwards (Genesis 4:16).

So what exactly is it about East and West that lays behind this?

Any ideas?

Traditionally, wasn't widdershins (i.e. in a direction contrary to the sun's course), considered as unlucky, whereas deisul (clockwise) was normal, usual and acceptable? This doesn't really answer your question, but the idea appears to have been identified outside of the bible also (or perhaps as a result of the bible).

JAM2b · Jul 8, 2018

God is everywhere.

East is just the location the garden was placed, and God was there, present in the garden, interacting with Adam and Eve, not in the West watching them from a distance like adoring some pets in a cage. When God drove them out of the garden, it doesn't specifically say that he drove them East, just that that's where the Cherubim was placed along with the sword, to guard the entrance or the path to the tree. They could have gone in any direction from there. As for Cain going east, he could no longer produce crops, so he had to go where there were resources for the sake of his survival, again, I think that was a provision from God because it appears that God blessed his life after that. These things are the opposite of being "farther away from God."

Bob Crowley · Jul 8, 2018

I hadn't given the topic any thought until it was mentioned here. I personally think it's symbolic, rather than geographical.

There's one take at this link. I'm Catholic so I don't get mixed up with "Messianic" churches or movements, but they seem to have some reasonable explanations.

http://messianic-revolution.com/2-21-significance-direction-east-scriptures/

Inkfingers · Jul 8, 2018

JAM2b said:
God is everywhere.

East is just the location the garden was placed, and God was there, present in the garden, interacting with Adam and Eve, not in the West watching them from a distance like adoring some pets in a cage. When God drove them out of the garden, it doesn't specifically say that he drove them East, just that that's where the Cherubim was placed along with the sword, to guard the entrance or the path to the tree. They could have gone in any direction from there. As for Cain going east, he could no longer produce crops, so he had to go where there were resources for the sake of his survival, again, I think that was a provision from God because it appears that God blessed his life after that. These things are the opposite of being "farther away from God."

I disagree. The eastness is evident in all the passages with somethings being less east (Eden) and closer to God, whilst others are progressively more east (expelled Adam and Eve, then even more expelled Cain).

What is it with "east"?

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