Is it truly bad to sin?

1stcenturylady · Jul 7, 2018

Melissa Suzanne said:
Well, if you would like some scriptures, tell me what you object to that I say, and I will find the scriptures that back up my beliefs. All I've said so far is that we're saved by grace, and that the spirit helps us live like we should when we're saved. Grace through forgiveness covers us when we mess up. But we don't become perfect as if we don't sin when we become saved. We still struggle. I think you assume that I believe the whole "grace is an excuse to sin" belief that most people nowadays believe and if so I don't know how you came to that guess. Grace saved us from sin but Jesus died because he knew we would make mistakes in the future. His blood covers us when we sin. So, that's what I believe. Trying to make it clear. If you are going to keep telling me I'm wrong, then I don't see the point at continuing to go at it, because I know what I believe and I feel confident with the Councelor's guidance. Might I say the way you go about these conversations is not in a godly fashion. It's accusatory and ugly.

Scriptures please.

Alithis · Jul 7, 2018

Invalidusername said:
I understand. However the poster I argued with said that it only means your "unknown sins" are forgiven. This is unscriptual. Check the context of the argument next time.

such a rare quality pastor .. by unknown sins he means things in your life that the holy Spirit has not yet revealed to you As sin -and it is right on scriptural .
if you continue to do actions of sin when you KNOW they are sin and ignore the lord calling you to repent and STOP then there is no one that can come and die again to save you from that willful sin. a baby believer gets away with it for little while and then they grow and learn its wrong and they STOP because they love the Lord JESUS ans they grow up more and they OVERCOME the evil one because they are born of the Spirit of God and they go on and DO works of righteousness.and because they are born of God they CAN NOT continue to practice SIN .. and they cease from doing so.

but any one who continues to practice sin , when they know very well it is sin.. are NOT born of God they have not seem him nor do they Know him .

Yes this is all written DIRECTLY in the scripture that is HOW SCRIPTURAL it is

discipler7 · Jul 7, 2018

Kees Hogenbirk said:
If God created the person's will and circumstance, knew the outcome of his sin, and did nohing about it, was is then truly 'bad' for the murderer to commit murder?

ROMANS.5:12-21 = Death in Adam, Life in Christ
12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— 13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. 15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. 16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. 17 For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.

20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, 21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _

All sins originated with Adam's Original Sin. The blame for sins lie with Adam and Satan, whether they are sins-in-the-heart or sins-in-deeds. The blame for sins does not lie with God. In fact, God has provided the "antidote" for all sins, ie His Law or Moses Law to curb sins-in-deeds and His Son's blood on the Cross to atone for sins-in-the-heart or Adam's Original Sin.

Cement · Jul 7, 2018

Back when I used to go to Catholic Bible study (im no longer Catholic) they used to teach us alter boys that whenever we sinned it was as if we lashed our Lord or drove a nail into his arm at Calvary. If you think of it every sin you commit right this moment is a sin that Jesus bore at the cross.

Alithis · Jul 7, 2018

Melissa Suzanne said:
Wow, okay. I don't even know what you presume that I believe, but some of the things you are saying are very unbiblical. You are saying we don't sin after we become saved. You are not even quoting me. I never said that he covers them as we commit them. I said when we confess our sins he forgives. I say past, present, and future, because he forgives the sins I committed in the past that I confessed, my present struggles, and the ones I will commit in the future. Everyone sins. I'm not saying it's okay. I'm just saying becoming a Christian does not make you perfect as if you don't sin anymore. That's a deception and if you want to talk false teaching, that's it. I come to this sight to peacefully and respectfully discuss the Bible and you are very ugly and accusatory about it. Don't go saying I don't know my beliefs, because I know where I'm at with God. Instead of shoving your beliefs down people, maybe you should let the Holy Spirit do it's work. This should be a place where we show love.

incorrect sorry ... confession without repentance is just admitting you've done wrong are doing wrong and plan to keep on rebelling .
Jesus said REPENTANCE for the forgiveness of sin will be preached . if we don't turn TOO god and AWAY from our sin ,then there is NO forgiveness. because if you keep going one direction of sin then your actions show that your lying to God about repenting to go HIS way you cant go both directions at the same time you can serve two masters ... so your just adding lying to all the other sin .
such a person is coming to god and saying sorry God for the sin i did on Friday night that i'm going to do again on Monday night right after iv got sunday church out of my system .
and spitting in Gods face time and time again . saying look at me god, i want you to forgive me for NOT repenting after the last time i asked you to forgive me ... i lied to you god but hey you have to forgive me ...
lies upon lies upon lies
-without repentance there is no forgiveness for sin. and the scripture says we are forgiven of all past offence .. so we can rise up and live a new life not going BACK to the life we lived before .the scripture is FULL of reminders about this and warning about it too

Alithis · Jul 7, 2018

Cement said:
Back when I used to go to Catholic Bible study (im no longer Catholic) they used to teach us alter boys that whenever we sinned it was as if we lashed our Lord or drove a nail into his arm at Calvary. If you think of it every sin you commit right this moment is a sin that Jesus bore at the cross. This is a profound and deep relationship that we must have with our God that he bore all our sins yet we continue to sin.

im not sure YET what your final point is . but one thing i know .. JESUS came to save us from our sin.. so if we are still slaves to sin ,we are not servants of righteousness yet .
which means one of two things

A -Jesus failed
B- we are refusing to repent

one of these is lying about the true state of the matter and it is NOT JESUS

Cement · Jul 7, 2018

Alithis said:
im not sure YET what your final point is . but one thing i know .. JESUS came to save us from our sin.. so if we are still slaves to sin ,we are not servants of righteousness yet .
which means one of two things

A -Jesus failed
B- we are refusing to repent

one of these is lying about the true state of the matter and it is NOT JESUS

First of all how dare you claim that ive implied that Jesus failed. secondly Ive never mentioned repentance and if I were to say who a true Christian is its one that strays from sin either because they abhor it or/and because they know that the wrath of God will be upon them shall they continue in sin. Lastly I know that I am no saint in my own power and that my works in the end are dirty rags before the Lord.

Alithis · Jul 7, 2018

Cement said:
First of all how dare you claim that ive implied that Jesus failed. secondly Ive never mentioned repentance and if I were to say who a true Christian is its one that strays from sin either because they abhor it or/and because they know that the wrath of God will be upon them shall they continue in sin. Lastly I know that I am no saint in my own power and that my works in the end are dirty rags before the Lord.

never implied anything .. i said i don't YET know what your final point is (referring to the post you made) . AND then -i went on to present a point .
one thing about getting offended though .. when we are dead to our selves and it is Christ that lives in us -its not possible to offend us . because you cant offend a dead person .

Gell · Jul 7, 2018

Kees Hogenbirk said:
I respect your opinion and belief.
My question however still lingers unanswered.
I shall figure it out one day.

These are not my opinion by the way. It is written, spoken by the living God.
You know that there are already answers to your questions. It’s in the Holy Book.
Ask and you shall receive.
God bless!

Lily of Valleys · Jul 7, 2018

Kees Hogenbirk said:
I do not know if my thoughts and feelings are my own, because I do not know if something else inside of the thing I call "me" is controlling my actions.

Not all thoughts that come into your mind necessarily originate from you, but unless you are possessed by a foreign spirit, which would be the something else inside of you that is controlling your actions, you are responsible for your own actions and what to do with those thoughts and those feelings that you have.

And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. (Ephesians 2:1-2)

Chinchilla · Jul 7, 2018

Kees Hogenbirk said:
That makes sense. Sinning against the greatest in power is the greatest sin.
However, God has created us and is allowing us to sin. Why would he do that, while he can just as well turn us all into sinless God abiding beings in a mere moment?

Yea exactly that . We have a problem of accountability . For example If I put my chinchilla under a steel bucket and it will try to escape but has no ability to who is guilty of the death of that chinchilla , me because I did not provide a way of escaping or chinchilla because he did not try enought ?

God can't just forgive without the penalty , if a judge let guilty person free then he is partaker in his/her crime .

That's why God in his foreknowledge died in his mind before he even created the world .
Revelation 13:8 King James Version (KJV)
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

It was not a surprise for God , he declares the end from beginning , when Adam and Eve sin he alredy told them that seed of a woman will bruise Satan's head .

Through all the time God required to have faith that he will provide , Abraham had faith in resurrection of Isaac as typology of Christ , Jews had faith in Messiah , People from Genesis times had faith in Seed of a women , we have faith in Christ .

So actually there was one gospel but the name of Christ was not revealed for people before Christ came . All were justified by faith .

We read that Salvation is not of works Ephesian 2:8-9 but in OT God did not change anything and it was still the same

Psalm 49

7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:
8 (For the redemption of their soul is precious, and it ceaseth for ever

You alredy have a problem shown here that finite created being can't pay penalty for eternal being .

And you have the solution

15 But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me. Selah.

But people still to this day are trying to save themselfes not trusting in the atonement but thier good works or keeping salvation . They are like that chinchilla trying to eat through steel bucket.

Lily of Valleys · Jul 7, 2018

Kees Hogenbirk said:
So sin is the absence of God. That is a beautiful answer.
Because that means that sin is not something that God has created,
Which in turn means that sin in and of itself isn't "bad". It is only bad in the eyes of God, who is good and did not create sin.
This answer satisfies me, because it means both sinning and not-sinning are not inherently good or bad. It is only God that says that.

Morally speaking, there is no objective way to decide what is good and what is bad. Whether something is good or bad is largely decided by individuals and consensus in a society.

However, sin is the transgression of the law, and this law is decided by God, not by us or the consensus of humans. In other words, sin can also be viewed as disobedience against God.

Alithis · Jul 7, 2018

Chinchilla said:
Yea exactly that . We have a problem of accountability . For example If I put my chinchilla under a steel bucket and it will try to escape but has no ability to who is guilty of the death of that chinchilla , me because I did not provide a way of escaping or chinchilla because he did not try enought ?

God can't just forgive without the penalty , if a judge let guilty person free then he is partaker in his/her crime .

That's why God in his foreknowledge died in his mind before he even created the world .
Revelation 13:8 King James Version (KJV)
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

It was not a surprise for God , he declares the end from beginning , when Adam and Eve sin he alredy told them that seed of a woman will bruise Satan's head .

Through all the time God required to have faith that he will provide , Abraham had faith in resurrection of Isaac as typology of Christ , Jews had faith in Messiah , People from Genesis times had faith in Seed of a women , we have faith in Christ .

So actually there was one gospel but the name of Christ was not revealed for people before Christ came . All were justified by faith .

We read that Salvation is not of works Ephesian 2:8-9 but in OT God did not change anything and it was still the same

Psalm 49

7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:
8 (For the redemption of their soul is precious, and it ceaseth for ever

You alredy have a problem shown here that finite created being can't pay penalty for eternal being .

And you have the solution

15 But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me. Selah.

But people still to this day are trying to save themselfes not trusting in the atonement but thier good works or keeping salvation . They are like that chinchilla trying to eat through steel bucket.

this is a good presentation .
what then of the ones who are freed from the tin bucket but choose to live as if they are still in it .

Lily of Valleys · Jul 7, 2018

Kees Hogenbirk said:
But God created that fruit, so does that mean that God created evil and sin?

No, that fruit is not evil and is not sin, but disobedience is. God did not create disobedience.

Kees Hogenbirk · Jul 7, 2018

dreadnought said:
Didn't I answer your question? You control you. You can choose heaven - the Lord showed you the path. Or you can choose not heaven.

I control me. But what is "I"?
A book = a collection of pages with text written on them
A tree = a large natural pillar made of wood with leaves on it
A window = a glass part of a wall which is used to see through it
An "I" = ???

Kees Hogenbirk · Jul 7, 2018

Anguspure said:
All that is not within the created intent of God is evil, and for this week, for His own reasons, He has allowed something beyond His intent to exist.

So God created freedom and allowed a real choice.

I guess that if you look from a transcendant perspective you could agree with God that the ultimate end of creation, that of Loving relationship with those who have responded to His Love and love him in return, is good.

But from a human perspective, as individuals that have a choice, it should be considered that the wrong choice is only evil, and incredibly dissapointing to the One Who Loves us.

So God didn't create evil? Or did he create evil, but put no intention behind it?

Kees Hogenbirk · Jul 7, 2018

Loren T. said:
Well, yes, but, it is bad in the eyes of God and there is no higher authority. So if something is bad in the eyes of God, how can it not be inherently bad?

Well, just because God is the highest authority doesn't mean that sinning is inherently bad right?
Sinning is bad in God's eyes, but probably not in the eyes of sin itself.
If God had created EVERYTHING in this universe, including sin, then sin would be inherently bad, because then God would have created sin with the intention of it being bad. He would be the author of sin.
However, as stated, god DID NOT create sin. Therefore, that means God did not create ALL THINGS in this universe. Sin is the absence of God, so God did not create his own absence.
So if there exist two forces in this universe, that of God and that of sin, then who do we know is the one we should believe and follow? Who of the two forces of God and sin ultimately decides what is 'right'?

Kees Hogenbirk · Jul 7, 2018

Halbhh said:
What is freedom? Without freedom of thought, could a person love?

If there is freedom, then both good actions and evil actions must be possible, else its not freedom.

Consider, could a rigidly programmed robot actually love? It could emulate concern, kindness, but it would only be a program.

With freedom then suffering, evil, compassion, kindness, love -- all become possible and with enough people surely will all happen.

Agreed. But did God create the sinful desires that exist in our own free will, then?

Kees Hogenbirk · Jul 7, 2018

Loren T. said:
It says you are allowing your flesh to overrule the Spirit. The closer you get to God, the less you will love the things he hates. But in my view, it is a life long journey and no one reaches perfection. Did you ever wonder why Monks would live by themselves in caves? Less temptations. If you're not around other people there are less opportunities to sin. I'm not saying to live that way, but getting alone will God now and then is a good practice.

But if God created our fleshly desires to sin, then why is it bad to act according to them (i.e. inappropriate contentography)?

Kees Hogenbirk · Jul 7, 2018

Deniz said:
I did not say I don't know the origin of the spirit. I simply told you I can't give you a scientific paper on it. My spirit is of God, yet it has a free will. My spirit can be influenced by my sinful ancestors, and the spirit of God, yet decision is of mine own. Simple as that. You may in your worldly wisdom say "if my spirit is of God there is no free will" and then lie to your self, murder your conscience and suffocate your spirit by living in sin; but you better believe you will have no excuses in the day of judgement.

Reading your comments, Kees can I be honest with you? You speak about God but I don't think you know Him. I think you are simply trying to get away with doing whatever you want.

What makes you want to sin? Have you ever read the Bible? Let me ask you a better question, do you really believe in God and His word? Your answer to this question will make your seemingly deep philosophy obsolete. Do you think there was a good reason that God Himself left behind all His glory, suffered a human life, went through physical and spiritual anguish like nobody ever has and died on a cross; just so you may be free from sin by believing in Him and receiving His Holy Spirit? No, don't believe it? Then why bother asking, to sear your conscience through which God is speaking to you? Then if you do believe, would you try so hard to justify sinning to the point of blaming God for it?

Just because "I want to do something" doesn't make it right, or that I have no decision or say in it, or that the want justifies it. Just because I felt like punching someone didn't make me go and sit down, think about the feeling I had and conclude "if God gave me my feelings and I felt like punching that guy, I should have punched him" and try to justify and claim "God is responsible because He gave me my spirit and free will" and masking it behind false philosophy all the while lying to my conscience.

If I do really believe in God, then even if I don't completely understand everything, I believe there's a reason why God is giving me certain instructions through His word and my conscience. Even if I can't put a name on every single thing, I can see there must be a reason that the Lord Himself was left alone, nailed on a piece of wood with His body pierced, shredded and unable to breathe.

Make sure you are being honest with yourself Kees, and make sure you identify the core of your questions. If you deal with the faith issue, I think everything else will fall into place. Don't kill your own conscience.

Thank you for the great reponse.

First of all, if your spirit is being influenced by both the spirit of God and the force of sin, is it really YOU making the decisions, or does your choice to sin or not simply depend on which force (good or evil) happens to be stronger inside your own spirit?

And to answer your question on why I am asking these questions: To be honest, a part of me greatly enjoys doing sinful things and being able to experience the pain that results from those actions.
However, I also have the feeling that what I'm doing is 'bad'. And I don't wan't sinning to be bad. I wan't to BE ABLE to experience sin and pain in all freedom without having to worry about it being bad.
And the other problem is that I don't really have proof that sinning is bad. I mean, my higher self tells me it is bad, sure, but my sinful desires tell me that it is good. So who do i listen to?? Who is in the right??
If God really did create everything, including sin, then why would he create a bad desire in me? Is it really bad then?
And if God didn't create sin, then doesn't that mean that there is a force apart from God that makes me want to sin? And if so, who of the two forces should I listen to? God? Or sin?

Is it truly bad to sin?

Spirit-filled follower of Christ

Disciple of Jesus .

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Disciple of Jesus .

Disciple of Jesus .

Active Member

Disciple of Jesus .

Redeemed

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Disciple of Jesus .

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Active Member

Active Member

Active Member

Active Member

Active Member

Similar threads