Is it truly bad to sin?

In my own personal experience sin is not only bad but it is also pointless. (better word being unfruitful). Matthew 7:19

As for the hypothetical about the young man born and raised in a bad environment, who also has mental disorders is a common question that I used to ask, and many people still do. "Why would God do this to someone?" Well If you look at it from this way God tests everyone, even his own people. There are a lot of verses that allude to metallurgy and burning away impurities (aka. "dross") from us. Psalms 66:10, Proverbs 25:4, Ezekiel 22:18, Isaiah 1:21-23.

Maybe the bullying and abuse will lead him away from attempting to gain revenge and lead him to depending on Christ.

Kees Hogenbirk said:

So then where does our desire to sin come from? Was it something that God didn't create?
If so, then that would mean God didn't create EVERYTHING, right?

Click to expand...

Sometimes you come to a fork in a road. You have to go one way or another. It doesn't mean you have a desire to go either way.

I would assume it's bad since the punishment of it is eternity in hell and the only way to repay it without going to hell yourself is to accept the punishment bought for your sake.

God did not create sin. I know your line of thinking because I sometimes think like that too but in reality God did not create sin. He did not create sinful desires. It is confusing but we must have faith in that. God is good. He cannot be sinful or have any sinful desires. The only explanation that I have is that Lucifer created sin in his rebellion and created his own evil kingdom where everything is against God's ways.

Also you are talking about sin being a creation. I don't think it's a creation. It's more of a result of something. Sin is more of a deviation from his creation. Something that corrupts it.

Think about engineers who create technical marvels. They create an engine that can operate a vehicle. Can another person take this vehicle and corrupt it, using it for an intention that was never intended? Yes. It's entirely possible that, while God knew this would happen, it still does not make Him the author of sin and destruction.

We will never understand completely in this world but someday we will understand completely. We are too corrupted and defiled to know the complete truth.

The bible says sin is evil
People sin
God is all powerful and all knowing
Therefore sin isn't evil


Does this work?

Romans 9:16-21

It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’ ” Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?

Kees Hogenbirk said:

Thank you for your answer!

But if everything about is sin, and we can't stop ourselves from sin, it is clear that God allows us to sin uncontrollably right? Even if he isn't the one that created sin.
So if God created us unable to stop sinning, can we really be held responsible for it? In other words, is sinning still bad, then?

Click to expand...

God didn't create us to be sinful either. Sin is a result, an unfortunate consequence
of the misuse of our free will. His desire is for a restored relationship with us.
That we might return to the way he created us, to have fellowship with him.
In fact, with our life in Christ we are called a new creation. To restore fellowship
with God we need to re-establish a life where he is in control, not us.

Kees Hogenbirk said:

Wow, thank you for the extensive answer! I really appreciate the effort!
I do still have a question though.
You say that the original sin started as one little thought of iniquity in Lucifer's mind right?
Well, if that thought did not come from God, but from himself, does that mean that there is something that God did not create or has command over?
If so, than wouldn't that mean that God (1) didn't create everything there is, and (2) isn't able to control everything in existance (not all-powerful)?

Thank you greatly in advance for your answer.

Click to expand...

To love God with all our heart is a choice. Even when everything was perfect. He gave us free will in order for us to know that it is our choice to love Him. It is not the heresy of irresistible grace. After all, we are made in the image of God. God is sovereign; and he made man sovereign over his own thoughts and will.

We are now given all these trials and things to build our character. When we first come to Christ, the sin nature is replaced with the perfect nature Adam had before he sinned, PLUS the nature of God. We love what God loves and hate what God hates. It is now normal to hate sin, and we have no desire to sin. And by "sin" I mean lawlessness. They are of our will. They are in full knowledge it is against God's laws. This is something a person totally in love with God can't do.

That doesn't mean we don't have weaknesses toward each other. Those are called transgressions, not willful sins. And as we forgive others who transgress against us, God forgives our transgressions. The only thing you have to know about transgressions is that unlike willful sins, they are unintentional. In other words, not of our will.

The Old Testament teaches us the difference, and is our reference book. It is our schoolmaster. Beware of the ignorance that says, "sin is sin."

Leviticus 5:15
“If a person commits a trespass, and sins unintentionally in regard to the holy things of the Lord, then he shall bring to the Lord as his trespass offering a ram without blemish from the flocks, with your valuation in shekels of silver according to the shekel of the sanctuary, as a trespass offering.

1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

When you have been baptized with the Holy Spirit and now walk in the Spirit, which is light, all your previous sin nature was taken away and replaced with a new nature at the time you repented and turned to Christ, but the blood of Jesus is still cleansing us of sin. What sin? Not lawlessness you wouldn't commit while in the light, so they are weaknesses/transgressions unintentionally committed. Yes, they are imperfections in front of a perfect God, but that is where Jesus comes in as our advocate. Beware of the other heresy that says Jesus is our advocate for willful sins.

1stcenturylady said:

To love God with all our heart is a choice. Even when everything was perfect. He gave us free will in order for us to know that it is our choice to love Him. It is not the heresy of irresistible grace. After all, we are made in the image of God. God is sovereign; and he made man sovereign over his own thoughts and will.

We are now given all these trials and things to build our character. When we first come to Christ, the sin nature is replaced with the perfect nature Adam had before he sinned, PLUS the nature of God. We love what God loves and hate what God hates. It is now normal to hate sin, and we have no desire to sin. And by "sin" I mean lawlessness. They are of our will. They are in full knowledge it is against God's laws. This is something a person totally in love with God can't do.

That doesn't mean we don't have weaknesses toward each other. Those are called transgressions, not willful sins. And as we forgive others who transgress against us, God forgives our transgressions. The only thing you have to know about transgressions is that unlike willful sins, they are unintentional. In other words, not of our will.

The Old Testament teaches us the difference, and is our reference book. It is our schoolmaster. Beware of the ignorance that says, "sin is sin."

Leviticus 5:15
“If a person commits a trespass, and sins unintentionally in regard to the holy things of the Lord, then he shall bring to the Lord as his trespass offering a ram without blemish from the flocks, with your valuation in shekels of silver according to the shekel of the sanctuary, as a trespass offering.

1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

When you have been baptized with the Holy Spirit and now walk in the Spirit, which is light, all your previous sin nature was taken away and replaced with a new nature at the time you repented and turned to Christ, but the blood of Jesus is still cleansing us of sin. What sin? Not lawlessness you wouldn't commit while in the light, so they are weaknesses/transgressions unintentionally committed. Yes, they are imperfections in front of a perfect God, but that is where Jesus comes in as our advocate. Beware of the other heresy that says Jesus is our advocate for willful sins.

Click to expand...

Someone ignored "all sin" in the end of 1 John 1:7

Kees Hogenbirk said:

Hello men and women of God! This is my first post here.

I have been thinking a lot lately about the nature of sin, and I would dearly appreciate it if you guys would help me with answering this question. So thank you in advance!

Here is my question. Plain and simply: "Is sinning bad?"
Of course we all assume that sinning is bad, because it is written in the bible, but there are some questions that lead me to doubt that. Namely...

"Why did God create evil and sin in this world?"
You could say that that God did not create us to do evil, but that he gave us free will, so that if we choose evil, we face the consequences and it we choose good, we are rewarded with God's grace.

But then here is my real question: "If God is all-powerful and all-knowing, then why does he create people that he knows will sin? And is sinning then really bad?"
Let's say God creates a person and grants him free will. However, God also created that person with a mental instability / weak will (which, let's assume makes him prone to murderous acts). Subsequently, let's say God then also places that person in an environment with abusive parents at home and frequent bullying at school (which, let's assume, combined with his mental instability causes him to commit murder) And so, he shoots up his class. This is an example, but I'm sure cases like this have actually happened in real life.
In such a case, can the murderer then really be held responsible for his actions? I mean,
-(1) He was born and raised with triggers that would undoubtedly (to God) lead him to commit a murderous act.
-(2) God, while all-powerful and all-knowing knew he would murder, yet did nothing about the sinful act.
If God created the person's will and circumstance, knew the outcome of his sin, and did nohing about it, was is then truly 'bad' for the murderer to commit murder?

"Is sinning bad?" may sound like a strange question, but I am seriously pondering it, and I would appreciate it greatly if you fellow Christians would help me out. So thanks!

Greets, Kees

Click to expand...

First of all, my position is that God does not create evil. If we acknowledge God as an unchanging, eternal God, then good and evil have existed for as long as God has existed. That is to say, infinitely and eternally. Because God is good, His goodness has always existed. He didn't make goodness up, He is goodness. To say that He created goodness would imply that He was, at one time, not good, and that He had to invent moral goodness in order for it to exist. This isn't logical with all else that we know God to be (unchanging, eternal, and good). So therefore, goodness has existed for as long as God has existed.

This means we need to define what evil is. Evil is that which is morally not good, which also means that it has to not be of God, so it can't be from God, but it can be allowed by God. If God gives us the ability to choose between good and evil, that means that evil must be a concept that predates free will. It exists as an opposite of God/goodness, and when someone has free will, they are given permission by God to choose which they will serve (as opposed to us having no will of our own at all, in which case we wouldn't truly be human and made in God's image.) It is because of God's goodness and love that He makes us in His image, and we can only be made in His image if we have the ability to make moral choices.

To say "God makes people with the knowledge that they will sin, therefore sinning is not bad" is not logical. To give people the freedom to choose despite knowing the future outcomes and consequences of their choices, is simply part of the ultimate good that is free will. Think of it like this: say you and your spouse want to have a child. You are about to bring a human being into this world, in a world full of pain and suffering, but also hope and joy. You know that they will inflict suffering upon others and them-self, because that's what people do due to our imperfection. And maybe this frightens you so much, that you decide that it would be better if your child was mentally unable to make those choices at all. Would that be right or moral? Should you take away your child's ability to make any choices at all because they are going to use that ability to hurt others at some point? Of course not. But does that mean that when your child makes these choices, the suffering he is inflicting not truly bad? Of course not!

Even when we are raised in unhealthy or abhorrent environments, we are still capable of making right choices. A person being raised in an abusive home does not mean that they will murder others.Many people are raised in terrible environments, and still do not murder people. I know some abuse survivors who are wonderful people despite what they lived through. If we humans are as helpless to our environments and genetics as you are suggesting here, then by that logic, should not all people who are abused or mentally ill be horrible murderers? And yet, in spite of these sufferings, the majority of people that go through these things choose not to do such evil. If anything, this proves that we are not slaves to our brain chemistry or environments, and can still choose. The people who choose to do evil after having lived through such horrible things are simply choosing wrongly. They capacity to choose never leaves them. People can be inclined towards certain actions due to their brains or experiences, but they can and do still make the right choice. God allowing someone to make the wrong choice does not mean that that choice isn't wrong.

Invalidusername said:

Someone ignored "all sin" in the end of 1 John 1:7

Click to expand...

Are you saying you believe you commit willful sin when walking in the light? Think about it.

Also, reread the post you resonded to, as I edited into it, and may give you something to think about.