could an 'eternal punishment' simply mean that once instituted it will not change?

Oscarr said:

Nor have I, and I have been a committed Christian for 50 years. I also don't see a perfect Christian when I look in the mirror when I get up in the morning. So, because I have my weaknesses and shortcomings, I don't judge others as being imperfect. The quest for personal perfection is a New Age modernist concept. If we could be perfect in ourselves, Jesus would not have had to come and die for us on the cross. We don't depend on the level of our perfection in Christian faith. We depend totally on the finished work of Christ. Coming short of that means that one has religion, but does not belong to Christ.

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Whoa. Who said anything about 'perfect'? I never used that word in anything I have offered.

Is it possible that I am no 'New Age Modernist', but more of a traditionalist according to the Bible? For my understanding has come from nor been influenced by 'any man made church'. Strictly the Bible and whatever revelations I have received by what I believe to be 'The Holy Spirit'.

Having studied the Bible for YEARS, it does not offer 'imperfection' as an option when it comes to being a FOLLOWER. You either ARE or you are ARE NOT. Pretty simple really. We are not instructed to 'not try' to do what we have been instructed to DO. In fact, in many places the Bible informs us that if we are not 'able' to DO what we have been instructed TO DO, we are NOT worthy of the Kingdom of God. And I'm referring to the words of Christ and the apostles.

And we are warned that we CANNOT serve two masters. We cannot LIVE in, by and FOR this world and be a follower of Christ. Cannot have it both ways. Sorry.

Read the message to the Laodiceans in the Book of Revelation. It is my belief that this warning is to US, NOW. For it is my opinion that this is the direction the 'churches' have led people TODAY.

And I have "NO" religion. Don't believe in it. I believe in the 'truth'. And that has been my mission for many many years now. Not what I WANT to believe, but what exists in 'truth'.

What I see when I look in the mirror is a 'man' unworthy of anything Christ has to offer. For if I were worthy, then I would BE a 'true follower'. That's what I believe. I have NO reason to fool myself into believing I'm 'better' than anyone else or more worthy. And if judged for the manner in which I have lived my life, I'm worthy of nothing short of DEATH.

Will I be forgiven and granted eternal life? Not likely. For I have been a very poor example of a follower.

But that has not prevented me from making an effort to LEARN the 'truth'. I am simply not 'so scared' that I'm willing to 'pretend' anything. I try my best not to lie to myself so I am able to avoid lying to others as much as possible.

I have READ the Bible. And I know what it says about 'the end'. It states that when Satan manifests himself in the flesh that he will set himself up in the temple and the WORLD will worship him AS GOD. The WORLD.

Since it would be impossible for this to take place 'overnight', he has been making way for this scenario for THOUSANDS of years. That means if the time is short, he has already convinced the majority of this world that he is God ALREADY.

Do you expose yourself to 'this world' every day and do your best to 'fit in'? Do you place the majority of your faith in MONEY rather than God through His Son? Do you share your wealth with those less fortunate expecting nothing in return? Do you love God and Christ MORE than your family and friends? Do you love your neighbors AS YOURSELF? including your enemies? Do you or have you forgiven EVERYONE that has ever done anything against you?

These are just a few of the commandments concerning 'true love' we have been offered in the Bible. And the Bible informs us that if we are unable to practice 'true love', we are not worthy of the Kingdom of God.

I know, the 'churches' teach that it doesn't matter so long as you 'say' you are 'saved' and a 'Christian'. But that is NOT what the Bible says. Faith is only ONE aspect of the conditions placed upon what God has offered.

Does the Holy Spirit warn you every day that your 'spirit' is in jeopardy? If not that's amusing. Because the Bible does. For Satan is as a ravenous lion looking for whom he is able to devour. And he's not seeking that which he already owns.................

Faith in an of itself is not a 'bad thing'. But false hope or misplaced faith can be 'a death sentence'.

You indicate that my 'judgement of others' is somehow 'wrong'? In other words, it is your opinion that me facing the TRUTH concerning what I observe in someone is the 'wrong thing to do'. For my statement was 'the truth' as far as I have been able to discern. I didn't make it lightly. I made it HONESTLY. And political correctness is not something the Bible instructs us to participate in.

You know, God instructed His People: (Hebrews/Jews), to enter the Promised Land and DESTROY those that lived there. Basically GENOCIDE. He also ordered the Hebrews/Jews to KILL their own people by stoning to DEATH those that broke certain 'rules'. For to God, death does not mean the same thing it does to US. That is because MOST of us have learned to LOVE this world and THIS LIFE more than anything else. including God or each other.

Now, if this is the God of the past, is He a DIFFERENT God today? It would certainly appear so when people believe that the ONLY THING required of themselves is 'faith' and faith 'alone'. But it is not a matter of 'faith and faith alone'. It is about 'faith in the TRUTH'. Faith in and of itself is meaningless.

Not here to rain on anyone's parade. Just here attempting to share the 'truth' without the involvement of individual concepts conceived by 'men', (or women). Does the 'truth' involve ideas created by men? Rarely. For what the tongue does BEST is say things that are far far from the 'truth'. And people are capable of 'believing' just about anything imaginable.

Blessings,

MEC

Actually it doesn't 'as worded'. But I ask this: what does FIRE do? Second death? What does that mean? Death means a 'separation' from LIFE. It's either one of the other.

That would mean that regardless of words penned in a 'book', the truth is, when one is sentenced to the 'second death', once the sentence is executed, they will CEASE to be 'alive'. Upon the completion of the 'second death', that entity will NO LONGER EXIST.

Just as 'rebirth' is not a 'physical rebirth', but SPIRITUAL in nature, so too would the 'second death' not pertain to a 'second physical' death, but the second being 'spiritual' whereas the first is physical, all indications are that Satan will be cast into the SAME 'lake of fire' as everyone judged accordingly.

While the words offered are that he will be tormented for an ETERNITY, common sense offers that if something is 'burned up' it then 'ceases to exist'. So if Satan's 'first death' is merely separation from mankind for a thousand years, obviously the 'second death' will be a 'ceasing to exist' regardless of words that may well have been placed in the Bible that would seem contrary.

No different than the 'churches' teaching 'eternal torment' for US. It is my belief and understanding 'from the Bible' that God cannot be a 'God of love' and cause eternal pain and suffering upon any of His 'creation'.

So the only realistic conclusion is that MEN added words to the Bible that indicate that which is utterly impossible. Why? To scare people into following their teachings through FEAR. For nothing that could be measured in TIME could warrant an ENDLESS period of suffering as punishment.

For I believe that it's pretty clear that even ten thousand years of evil wouldn't warrant eternity of pain and suffering so far as 'righteousness' is concerned.

I've read the words. And I have prayed over words. And often the answer is: "Mike, you KNOW men penned the Bible. Men who at times TORTURED and MURDERED those that attempted to share the Bible in readable languages. Do you honestly believe that they have been UNABLE to alter words at their discretion? I have provided text that contains 'truth'. But ONLY as far as the Holy Spirit offers GUIDANCE. Do you trust ME or do you place your faith in a book written by MEN? The Bible, that I inspired, was indeed INSPIRED by ME. But like everything else in this world, the words themselves are corrupt and MEANINGLESS without guidance of the Holy Spirit. Ask and ye shall receive. Knock and it shall be opened.............But there is absolutely NOTHING that exists on Earth that cannot BE corrupted. Including the writings that I inspired. The Bible I inspired, through guidance of the Holy Spirit, is the BEGINNING of truth. It is by no means ALL the 'truth'."

The Bible states that: 'thou shall not kill". But we know this isn't to be taken literal. There are certainly exceptions. So it's not about following the 'words', it's about trusting in God to reveal the exceptions...

Blessings,

MEC