Patriotism & the Church

On this 4th day of July, this special day of remembrance, may God bless America!

amariselle said:

God’s grace and mercy is for everyone, not just Americans.

We are united in Christ.

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God bless America on this 4th of July, this day of remembrance!!!

Amen!

"Behold, they shall surely gather together, but not by me: whosoever shall gather together against thee shall fall for thy sake." ~Isaiah 54:15

"No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD." ~Isaiah 54:17

Daniel Martinovich said:

What part of Northern Europe don’t you understand Dorothy?

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This is what you said, "The primary one was the European migrants to north America came from the very first people in the history of mankind where the general public had access to the Bible.
So yes northern Europeans were the first people in history where the general public got access to Bibles. (Despite the fact it was illegal.) Northern Europeans were the migrants to North America. "

The main immigrants were intitially English. They did come from a place where the Bible was illegal. The first people in Europe to have a legal Bible did not come to the US in numbers. They stayed in Europe for the most part. Now how do you know who the very first people to have the Bible available to the general public? You know the history of the Bible in the rest of the world? The Bible was not illegal in all of Northern Europe in any case.. Your post is simply full of error. Why don't you drop that claim? Those who came to the US were mainly English. They were not the first to have legal Bibles. The Bible was not illegal in all of Northern Europe. You ought to drop the first Bible assumption.

amariselle said:

Perhaps you can start your own thread.

Thanks

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As an American, i am sharing what God's grace on my country means to me, especially, since as you posted, it's July 4th, which is America's Independence Day.

And as an American, i LOVE the songs that give thanksgiving, praise, and remembrance to our God, Who made it possible. It's a MIRACLE that we, as a nation are living and breathing, and made it through the fight of our life.

These songs should be sung on the occasions that warrant them, in Church, or elsewhere.

God bless America!!

Thanks be to GOD, Who spared us, against HUMONGOUS odds.

The odds of the Americans winning the Revelutionary war were actually pretty good. The Brits just got tired of fighting. Was the likely outcome in any case. The Americans were not going to give up and the Brits were not going to fight forever. They were not losing the land they lived on. The Americans were. So the end was very likely sooner or later.

Why we sing these songs, in Church, or otherwise.

Dorothy Mae said:

The odds of the Americans winning the Revelutionary war were actually pretty good. The Brits just got tired of fighting. Was the likely outcome in any case. The Americans were not going to give up and the Brits were not going to fight forever. They were not losing the land they lived on. The Americans were. So the end was very likely sooner or later.

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The odds were nill.

Only by God's intervention did we withstand the assaults on us from the British.

Soldiers died, holding up the flag pole, because to allow the flag to be lowered or fall to the ground, would be surrender to the British.

It was a bona fide miracle from God that we prevailed.

No WONDER we remember and celebrate this day, July 4th, and deem it our Independence Day.

It should be remembered and celebrated.

Always.

amariselle said:

When people are fighting and killing one another, why should we believe that God takes sides?

In my opinion it is simply arrogant and prideful to suggest that God was on the side of the Americans and not the British. Does God love the Americans more than the British?

Why should anyone believe this? God is not a respecter of persons.

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God answers prayer.

He did the same for Israel when they survived huge armies coming after them.

He's the same God Who parted the Red Sea.

He's the same God Who protected Daniel in the lion's den.

He's the same God who prompted a Nazi business man to protect and help Jews. His name was Oskar Schindler.

He's the same God Who hid Corrie Ten Boom's Bible from the Nazi soldiers who were searching for them, as she stood in an inspection line.

He's the same God Who has answered my prayers more times than i can count.

amariselle said:

Now where did I once say He is a different God or doesn’t answer prayer?

Does God love Americans more than the British?

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God HEARS His people.

He ANSWERS their prayers.

That's why America won against tyranny.

Our flag was still standing.

By the way, i pray for the UK as well.

And no, God doesn't love Americans more than the British.

However is is our Independence Day today.

Praise God for it, and God bless America.

Amen.

(Praying for you)

Let it rain.

amariselle said:

When people are fighting and killing one another, why should we believe that God takes sides?

In my opinion it is simply arrogant and prideful to suggest that God was on the side of the Americans and not the British. Does God love the Americans more than the British?

Why should anyone believe this? God is not a respecter of persons.

Click to expand...

In my opinion it is simply arrogant and prideful to suggest that God was on the side of the Americans and not the British.

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God is never on the side of tyranny.

America won her independence.

The British lost.

God bless America! Land of the free and home of the brave.

Dorothy Mae said:

This is what you said, "The primary one was the European migrants to north America came from the very first people in the history of mankind where the general public had access to the Bible.
So yes northern Europeans were the first people in history where the general public got access to Bibles. (Despite the fact it was illegal.) Northern Europeans were the migrants to North America. "

The main immigrants were intitially English. They did come from a place where the Bible was illegal. The first people in Europe to have a legal Bible did not come to the US in numbers. They stayed in Europe for the most part. Now how do you know who the very first people to have the Bible available to the general public? You know the history of the Bible in the rest of the world? The Bible was not illegal in all of Northern Europe in any case.. Your post is simply full of error. Why don't you drop that claim? Those who came to the US were mainly English. They were not the first to have legal Bibles. The Bible was not illegal in all of Northern Europe. You ought to drop the first Bible assumption.

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Your straining a a gnat Dorothy and arguing with your own imagination of what I said. Don't know why but I suspect it has something to do with your not wanting the apple cart of your beliefs about the USA to get disturbed. I'm an non professional history researcher. I know what I am talking about. My article on the original State constitutions of the USA comes up #1 on a Google search and is referred to by many academics in universities on their professional papers. I have other articles chalk full of history that have occupied the #1 spot or the first page. The paragraphs below are a few exerts from various pages i have written were this topic is discussed. . As I state in much of my commentary Dorothy and in my teachings towards developing nations. I tell them if you look back at history; it takes at least a century once the Word of God gets into the hands of the common people and the Gospel begins to be preached in power before you begin to see the major cultural changes people would like to see. Likewise I teach very specifically. That it was the thinking that developed in the Northern half of Europe due to the fact that they were a Bible reading population that gave us the United States and the free world. In other words. The founding of the USA WAS NOT due to the brilliance or the thinking that developed in the colonies before its founding. The thinking and the teachings that undergirded the founders actions had already been fully developed in the northern half of Europe by Bible reading populations and was brought to the USA by its immigrants. The only thing the USA had to offer was much less opposition to the implementation of the ideals already developed in the northern half of Europe in the previous centuries by a Bible possessing Bible reading population. I have three exerts here. Can't fit them all on this comment. Will paste the rest to a following one.


From: http://www.wordservice.org/USA Founding/usa3000.htm
During that whole 1400 year period, from the time of Christ to the end of The Age of the Gentiles; it was not that all real Christians everywhere were unarmed. It's not that freedom fighters did not arise to try to win their nations or peoples freedom from oppression. It's not that it was not God's will that peoples and nations be allowed to bear the fruit of real Christianity which includes the rule of law based in Biblical principle and the overthrow of despotic human government. It's what the general public was not armed with that prevented God's plan from succeeding. Nope, it was not guns but Bibles. For most of those 1400 years the general public did not have access to Bibles. Throughout much of that time it was illegal. One had to have special political connections to posses one. Locations that for various reasons did not restrict access and the Bible began to be known and distributed were the areas that were targeted for genocide if necessary to rid the kingdoms or empires of the cancer. There were many "protestant" reformations before the Martin Luther's, yet those reformations were militarily crushed. By the way Martin Luther was already a priest and monk but had never read the New Testament. He may have never even planed on it as part of his duties. It was not until after reading and taking it to heart that his trouble started. That is just to give you an idea of the "Christian world" back then. It was generally a world without Bibles and that was by Satan's design. Stranger than fiction right at the time The Age of the Gentiles ended in 1453 AD. The first commercial European printing press went online. The first book printed? Bibles. Within a few decades books and pamphlets went from the tens of thousands of hand written or wood plate carved and printed to the tens of millions. One of Martin Luther's pamphlets had three million printed in a three year period. Even though it was illegal, punishable by death at this juncture. For the first time in human history Bibles got into the hands of the general public. This happened in northern Europe. Not only that but Bibles translated into native languages. In exactly the same manner as done on previous occasions. Southern European empires and kingdoms committed large armies to destroy the people who were now armed with he Word of God in Northern Europe. Yet the world was about to experience another first in human history. Outside Ancient Israel that is. At the cost of tens of millions of lives. They did not succeed in conquering the peoples of Northern Europe armed with Gods Word. The thinking that developed in Northern Europe due to the general population reading Bibles was the foundation of the free world. It gave birth to he Dutch Republic that was founded in Biblical or Christian principle. It was he worlds only Republic at the time. It lasted 200 years, became a world power. Even though the Republic needed a professional army to protect itself from the monarchies surrounding it that were always seeking to conquer it. Regular Bible reading, personal firearm ownership and militia service was a mandatory rule for citizenship in the republics various cities and districts. What now began to develop in the world was that the peoples, nations, whoever they were; that were the most influenced by the Bible and its principles began to be dominate. The discovery of the Americas shortly after the end of The age of the Gentiles was also a huge factor in this. Northern Europeans migrated to North America in mass and were able to put into practice their religious principles from the Bible without the same opposition faced in Europe. The colonies became laboratories for the development of differing idea's people have regarding Christianity but all had two things in common. Daily Bible reading by an armed population. Having said all of this. Please compare what historians call the Christian world of The Age of the Gentiles where the populations had no access to Bibles. A world that was in fact opposed to the general public ever having access to them and fought horrific and genocidal wars of conquest against peoples who were gaining a little access to them. To the Christian world that arose after this where the general population possessed Bibles, were expected to read them themselves and all public and private education included daily Bible study. It is wisdom to recognize the difference between the two worlds. Especially in the light of the fact that that it was the Bible reading Christian world that gave us the free world that never existed before in history. A world so many of us enjoy. If it is wisdom to recognize this then it is revelation to understand that this free world is the fulfillment of prophecy about an age where all the earthly promises of God in the Bible will come to pass in nations that meet the conditions. These chapters upon chapters of earthly promises had remained unfulfilled in the lives of hundreds of generations of saints since the beginning of time. Yet, and contrarily to most popular Bible teaching about the government of God. These promises did not come by miraculous imposition via a physical\visible Kingdom but rather mankind had to win them by sacrifice. First and foremost by way cultural change due to many converting to Christ, and their and the Bibles influence. Secondly, politically or through force of arms.

Why we remember and celebrate and sing these songs on July 4th, this day of remembrance, in Church or otherwise:

Daniel Martinovich said:

Your straining a a gnat Dorothy and arguing with your own imagination of what I said. Don't know why but I suspect it has something to do with your not wanting the apple cart of your beliefs about the USA to get disturbed. I'm an non professional history researcher. I know what I am talking about. My article on the original State constitutions of the USA comes up #1 on a Google search and is referred to by many academics in universities on their professional papers. I have other articles chalk full of history that have occupied the #1 spot or the first page. The paragraphs below are a few exerts from various pages i have written were this topic is discussed. . As I state in much of my commentary Dorothy and in my teachings towards developing nations. I tell them if you look back at history; it takes at least a century once the Word of God gets into the hands of the common people and the Gospel begins to be preached in power before you begin to see the major cultural changes people would like to see. Likewise I teach very specifically. That it was the thinking that developed in the Northern half of Europe due to the fact that they were a Bible reading population that gave us the United States and the free world. In other words. The founding of the USA WAS NOT due to the brilliance or the thinking that developed in the colonies before its founding. The thinking and the teachings that undergirded the founders actions had already been fully developed in the northern half of Europe by Bible reading populations and was brought to the USA by its immigrants. The only thing the USA had to offer was much less opposition to the implementation of the ideals already developed in the northern half of Europe in the previous centuries by a Bible possessing Bible reading population. I have three exerts here. Can't fit them all on this comment. Will paste the rest to a following one.

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It would be better if you did not start off attacking my character but simply refered to the post. But I have noticed that Americans do this more and more. I did not attribute anything to any attitude you have. I focused soley on what you wrote. You have to had the slur against my motives.

The US was also founded by Free Masons, an occultic group that was anything but Christian. George Washing and a number of the "founding fathers" were 33 degree Free masons not Christians at all by any stretch of the imagination. So the idea that Bible reading people developed the US entirely is not true. If you do not say what you think I think you say, next time act like a Christian and correct what you think is wrong.

Also, the Bible was available to nations who did not come to the US and centuries before the 18th. So people had the Bible and still did not develop the government the US had. The government of the US was based primarily on the English form of government that began with the rights of citizens demanded in Magna Carta. This was not true in N. Europe as a whole, some of which are still a monarchy others did until the 20th century. The English who founded the US also demanded and end to slavery among other admirable changes that came straight out of Bible believing people.

From: http://www.wordservice.org/USA Founding/usa3000.htm
During that whole 1400 year period, from the time of Christ to the end of The Age of the Gentiles; it was not that all real Christians everywhere were unarmed. It's not that freedom fighters did not arise to try to win their nations or peoples freedom from oppression. It's not that it was not God's will that peoples and nations be allowed to bear the fruit of real Christianity which includes the rule of law based in Biblical principle and the overthrow of despotic human government. It's what the general public was not armed with that prevented God's plan from succeeding. Nope, it was not guns but Bibles. For most of those 1400 years the general public did not have access to Bibles. Throughout much of that time it was illegal. One had to have special political connections to posses one. Locations that for various reasons did not restrict access and the Bible began to be known and distributed were the areas that were targeted for genocide if necessary to rid the kingdoms or empires of the cancer. There were many "protestant" reformations before the Martin Luther's, yet those reformations were militarily crushed. By the way Martin Luther was already a priest and monk but had never read the New Testament. He may have never even planed on it as part of his duties. It was not until after reading and taking it to heart that his trouble started. That is just to give you an idea of the "Christian world" back then. It was generally a world without Bibles and that was by Satan's design. Stranger than fiction right at the time The Age of the Gentiles ended in 1453 AD. The first commercial European printing press went online. The first book printed? Bibles. Within a few decades books and pamphlets went from the tens of thousands of hand written or wood plate carved and printed to the tens of millions. One of Martin Luther's pamphlets had three million printed in a three year period. Even though it was illegal, punishable by death at this juncture. For the first time in human history Bibles got into the hands of the general public. This happened in northern Europe. Not only that but Bibles translated into native languages. In exactly the same manner as done on previous occasions. Southern European empires and kingdoms committed large armies to destroy the people who were now armed with he Word of God in Northern Europe. Yet the world was about to experience another first in human history. Outside Ancient Israel that is. At the cost of tens of millions of lives. They did not succeed in conquering the peoples of Northern Europe armed with Gods Word. The thinking that developed in Northern Europe due to the general population reading Bibles was the foundation of the free world. It gave birth to he Dutch Republic that was founded in Biblical or Christian principle. It was he worlds only Republic at the time. It lasted 200 years, became a world power. Even though the Republic needed a professional army to protect itself from the monarchies surrounding it that were always seeking to conquer it. Regular Bible reading, personal firearm ownership and militia service was a mandatory rule for citizenship in the republics various cities and districts. What now began to develop in the world was that the peoples, nations, whoever they were; that were the most influenced by the Bible and its principles began to be dominate. The discovery of the Americas shortly after the end of The age of the Gentiles was also a huge factor in this. Northern Europeans migrated to North America in mass and were able to put into practice their religious principles from the Bible without the same opposition faced in Europe. The colonies became laboratories for the development of differing idea's people have regarding Christianity but all had two things in common. Daily Bible reading by an armed population. Having said all of this. Please compare what historians call the Christian world of The Age of the Gentiles where the populations had no access to Bibles. A world that was in fact opposed to the general public ever having access to them and fought horrific and genocidal wars of conquest against peoples who were gaining a little access to them. To the Christian world that arose after this where the general population possessed Bibles, were expected to read them themselves and all public and private education included daily Bible study. It is wisdom to recognize the difference between the two worlds. Especially in the light of the fact that that it was the Bible reading Christian world that gave us the free world that never existed before in history. A world so many of us enjoy. If it is wisdom to recognize this then it is revelation to understand that this free world is the fulfillment of prophecy about an age where all the earthly promises of God in the Bible will come to pass in nations that meet the conditions. These chapters upon chapters of earthly promises had remained unfulfilled in the lives of hundreds of generations of saints since the beginning of time. Yet, and contrarily to most popular Bible teaching about the government of God. These promises did not come by miraculous imposition via a physical\visible Kingdom but rather mankind had to win them by sacrifice. First and foremost by way cultural change due to many converting to Christ, and their and the Bibles influence. Secondly, politically or through force of arms.

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I will have to read this later....I need to go.