Do you know about the "Marrow Controversy"?

ladodgers6 · May 15, 2017

I wanted to discuss this crucial topic with any who want to share or learn. About the Marrow Controversy that impacted the Gospel itself. Knowing God's Grace in the Gospel is key to understanding, Law & Gospel in relation Justification by Faith Alone!

HereIStand · May 15, 2017

I'm only familiar with it from reading some of Sinclair Ferguson's book, The Whole Christ. If you'd like to discuss the book, I'll start reading it again.

ladodgers6 · May 16, 2017

HereIStand said:
I'm only familiar with it from reading some of Sinclair Ferguson's book, The Whole Christ. If you'd like to discuss the book, I'll start reading it again.

Another book entitled The Marrow of Modern Divinity is a must have. Ferguson has a foreword to it. And his book The Whole Christ is based on it. Check it out.

Tolworth John · May 16, 2017

from wiki:-
The Marrow Controversy was a Scottish ecclesiastical dispute occasioned by the republication in 1718 of The Marrow of Modern Divinity (originally published in two parts in London in 1645 and 1649 by "E. F.", generally believed to be a pseudonym for Edward Fisher, a lay theologian of the seventeenth century). The work consists of religious dialogues which discuss the doctrine of the atonement and aim to guide the reader safely between Antinomianism and Neonomianism.

I would think it is anything but a crucial topic.
Important of one is studing the history of the church of scotland, but not relevent to today.

hedrick · May 16, 2017

Tolworth John said:
I would think it is anything but a crucial topic.
Important of one is studing the history of the church of scotland, but not relevent to today.

Maybe, maybe not. The question of how to avoid legalism without becoming antinomian is still a very real one.

Tolworth John · May 17, 2017

hedrick said:
Maybe, maybe not. The question of how to avoid legalism without becoming antinomian is still a very real one.

Legalism can be avoided by teaching the biblical principles that enable us to follow Jesus.

HereIStand · May 17, 2017

Tolworth John said:
Legalism can be avoided by teaching the biblical principles that enable us to follow Jesus.

Avoiding legalism without giving to license is a perennial struggle within Christianity (or it should be.) Some of the specifics change from time and place, but the overriding issue is the same.

Tolworth John · May 17, 2017

Legalism only exsists where there is a lack of love for Jesus and for each other.
When Chjristians are seeking to follow Jesus, no matter how badly and there is love for one another. Then there also is a willingness to forgive those who fail to live up st the standards of the more mature/advanced Christians and if they are so advanced they will know that there role is that of support and encourager for those Christians who are struggling with self discipline, doubts, sin etc.

ladodgers6 · May 17, 2017

Tolworth John said:
from wiki:-
The Marrow Controversy was a Scottish ecclesiastical dispute occasioned by the republication in 1718 of The Marrow of Modern Divinity (originally published in two parts in London in 1645 and 1649 by "E. F.", generally believed to be a pseudonym for Edward Fisher, a lay theologian of the seventeenth century). The work consists of religious dialogues which discuss the doctrine of the atonement and aim to guide the reader safely between Antinomianism and Neonomianism.

I would think it is anything but a crucial topic.
Important of one is studing the history of the church of scotland, but not relevent to today.

I beg to differ. This two headed monster has plagued the church for centuries, even today. Between legalism and antinomianism which are antithetical to Grace of the Gospel. This is a crucial topic for all to learn and understand.

ladodgers6 · May 17, 2017

Tolworth John said:
Legalism can be avoided by teaching the biblical principles that enable us to follow Jesus.

Which is?

ladodgers6 · May 17, 2017

HereIStand said:
Avoiding legalism without giving to license is a perennial struggle within Christianity (or it should be.) Some of the specifics change from time and place, but the overriding issue is the same.

Understanding how a sinner is justified before a Holy Righteous God, is a great question to ask. Is there anything a sinner can do to earn God's favor? If not, then how is a sinner able to stand before God? Salvation is of the Lord (Jonah 2:9). We are saved by Grace through Faith Alone, and this is not from yourselves, but is a GIFT from God. Its given freely and received through Faith apart from any works we do. Only by the perfect works of Christ, that we can stand before God. Wrapped in the righteousness and sanctification of Christ!

Tolworth John · May 17, 2017

ladodgers6 said:
Which is?

Two replies in one.
While the need to avoid legalism etc is important, learning about it by studing ancient church history is not the method I would use.

Biblical principals we need to teach:- see Jesus's comment on the 10 comandments.

ladodgers6 · May 18, 2017

Tolworth John said:
Two replies in one.
While the need to avoid legalism etc is important, learning about it by studing ancient church history is not the method I would use.

Biblical principals we need to teach:- see Jesus's comment on the 10 comandments.

I beg to differ. WE can learn from history. We can learn from the greatest minds in Christendom. They do use Scripture Alone. Yes, the Law is part of the Christian Life. But Christ is always at the center of it. Read Luke 18 about the Tax Collector and the Pharisee.

ladodgers6 · Jul 1, 2018

Tolworth John said:
Two replies in one.
While the need to avoid legalism etc is important, learning about it by studing ancient church history is not the method I would use.

Biblical principals we need to teach:- see Jesus's comment on the 10 comandments.

I beg to differ. All the debates you will ever encounter, have already been debated by the greatest minds in Christendom.

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 1, 2018

Tolworth John said:
Legalism can be avoided by teaching the biblical principles that enable us to follow Jesus.

OR how about by just "hearing His Voice and following Jesus - not following another" ?

Tolworth John · Jul 3, 2018

yeshuaslavejeff said:
OR how about by just "hearing His Voice and following Jesus - not following another" ?

Even sheep have to learn to recognise the shepards voice.
So must we learn to distinguish Jesus/spirits voice from all the rival voice around us.

Tolworth John · Jul 3, 2018

ladodgers6 said:
I beg to differ. All the debates you will ever encounter, have already been debated by the greatest minds in Christendom.

That every question, doubt, heresay etc has been answered many time over is not in doubt.
What I'm commenting on is the best method of teaching the congragation.
This I think is best achieved by teaching them/us to understand and apply biblical principals.
Certainly suitable quotes from relevent Church Fathers, noted teachers/preachers help reinforce this teaching.

Not everyone wants to or has the inclination to read Augustine, polycarp, Edwards, Spurgeon etc

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 3, 2018

Not everyone should read those.
The clarification "SUITABLE" is necessary, since many of the things written are not only not suitable for believers, but did, can, might, or would tend to lead people astray in a false gospel instead of to truth.

FireDragon76 · May 1, 2019

I only know a little about the Marrow controversy, but it seems to me the whole thing is steeped in inter-Reformed debates about how sanctified Christians are supposed to be before they have assurance of grace.

That is why there's so much debate about antinomianism, in fact we could almost call it the Puritan Impulse, since it seems to be influenced by something unique to the British reformation. Whereas Lutherans tend to assume everyone is just broken and will always be broken as long as we are human beings living in a fallen world. And of course, there were Reformed theologians in the German tradition that had similar sentiments (Reinhold Niebuhr is a good example in the American context).

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