Does the Bible say grace is without conditions?

zoidar

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Well, I would say certainly not always, and if it is, it's always followed by conditions. We are to repent to receive God's grace. Grace it not something that we earn, but it's something given to us that is much, much bigger than we deserve. It's like I'm doing work for the boss, planting trees, and the salary for such a job is 100$ for a day. But when I go to pick up my daily salary, the boss gives me 10000$. That is grace, it has conditions, but much more has been poured out for us than we deserve. That is the mercy of God, we can't earn God's mercy, yet it has conditions, and it overflows.

Saul met Christ on the road to Damascus. It might at first have been grace without conditions, but what followed was a huge responsibitly. Paul was to take the gospel all over the world, and to stay in grace Paul had to be obedient to the mission Christ laid on him.

Acts 9:15-16
But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel; for I will show him how much he must suffer for My name’s sake."
 

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Well, I would say certainly not always, and if it is, it's always followed by conditions. We are to repent to receive God's grace. Grace it not something that we earn, but it's something given to us that is much, much bigger than we deserve. It's like I'm doing work for the boss, planting trees, and the salary for such a job is 100$ for a day. But when I go to pick up my daily salary, the boss gives me 10000$. That is grace, it has conditions, but much more has been poured out for us than we deserve. That is the mercy of God, we can't earn God's mercy, yet it has conditions, and it overflows.

Saul met Christ on the road to Damascus. It might at first have been grace without conditions, but what followed was a huge responsibitly. Paul was to take the gospel all over the world, and to stay in grace Paul had to be obedient to the mission Christ laid on him.

Acts 9:15-16
But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel; for I will show him how much he must suffer for My name’s sake."

What is repentance for you?
 
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dqhall

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Well, I would say certainly not always, and if it is, it's always followed by conditions. We are to repent to receive God's grace. Grace it not something that we earn, but it's something given to us that is much, much bigger than we deserve. It's like I'm doing work for the boss, planting trees, and the salary for such a job is 100$ for a day. But when I go to pick up my daily salary, the boss gives me 10000$. That is grace, it has conditions, but much more has been poured out for us than we deserve. That is the mercy of God, we can't earn God's mercy, yet it has conditions, and it overflows.

Saul met Christ on the road to Damascus. It might at first have been grace without conditions, but what followed was a huge responsibitly. Paul was to take the gospel all over the world, and to stay in grace Paul had to be obedient to the mission Christ laid on him.

Acts 9:15-16
But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel; for I will show him how much he must suffer for My name’s sake."
I remember a parable Jesus taught (Matthew 21). A father had two sons whom he asked to go work in his vineyard. One said he would then didn't. The other said he wouldn't then changed his mind and went to work instead. They both lied, but the one who went to work did his father's will.

Who will the father try to help more?

Paul had to start working for God as part of his deal. God had to train Paul who was already multi-lingual and familiar with the Law and Prophets.
 
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Dave L

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Well, I would say certainly not always, and if it is, it's always followed by conditions. We are to repent to receive God's grace. Grace it not something that we earn, but it's something given to us that is much, much bigger than we deserve. It's like I'm doing work for the boss, planting trees, and the salary for such a job is 100$ for a day. But when I go to pick up my daily salary, the boss gives me 10000$. That is grace, it has conditions, but much more has been poured out for us than we deserve. That is the mercy of God, we can't earn God's mercy, yet it has conditions, and it overflows.

Saul met Christ on the road to Damascus. It might at first have been grace without conditions, but what followed was a huge responsibitly. Paul was to take the gospel all over the world, and to stay in grace Paul had to be obedient to the mission Christ laid on him.

Acts 9:15-16
But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel; for I will show him how much he must suffer for My name’s sake."
If grace is conditional, your faith will be in your meeting the condition and not in Christ. In other words, your faith will be in your faith. But grace brings faith in Christ to your heart. And this is why you believe. You know the gospel is true when you hear and think about it. But if you really believe then the "conditions" set in. You must repent from your sins, be baptized and live a holy life.
 
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Well, I would say certainly not always, and if it is, it's always followed by conditions. We are to repent to receive God's grace. Grace it not something that we earn, but it's something given to us that is much, much bigger than we deserve. It's like I'm doing work for the boss, planting trees, and the salary for such a job is 100$ for a day. But when I go to pick up my daily salary, the boss gives me 10000$. That is grace, it has conditions, but much more has been poured out for us than we deserve. That is the mercy of God, we can't earn God's mercy, yet it has conditions, and it overflows.

Saul met Christ on the road to Damascus. It might at first have been grace without conditions, but what followed was a huge responsibitly. Paul was to take the gospel all over the world, and to stay in grace Paul had to be obedient to the mission Christ laid on him.

Acts 9:15-16
But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel; for I will show him how much he must suffer for My name’s sake."
Grace, by definition, means without conditions.
 
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nonaeroterraqueous

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Receiving grace requires faith.

Having faith requires grace.

It might at first have been grace without conditions, but what followed was a huge responsibitly

It remained grace without conditions. To support your thesis you quote the following:

But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel; for I will show him how much he must suffer for My name’s sake."

The emphasis is mine, of course. The words chosen and must imply that the destiny is not upon condition of the man's acceptance. There is no conditional clause anywhere in that sentence.

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

  • By grace
  • Through faith
  • The faith does not come from you. It is a gift from God
  • It doesn't come by works of any kind
  • No one has any reason to boast
That's the sum of it. Grace is a gift that uses faith, which is a gift from God and not a product of a person's own innate goodness. The grace is not contingent upon faith. The faith is a product of the grace, the means by which grace acts.
 
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Actually, grace does come with conditions. Not everyone is going to be saved.
Jesus said narrow is the way that leads unto life and few be there that finds it.
Jesus did not have a problem with people who had placed little emphasis on sin.
Jesus rebuked the Pharisees because they sinned (See Matthew 23:23).

Ephesians 2:8-9 is dealing with "Initial Salvation" and or "Ultimate Salvation." Ephesians 2:1 talks about how Christ has quickened us (Which is a one time act).

"And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;" (Ephesians 2:1).

Paul says in Ephesians 3:17,

"That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,"

So is Paul talking about the Sanctification process or continued salvation?

No. He is talking about how Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith.

This is a one time event.

James says in James 2:24 that you are justified by works and not by faith alone.
James says he will show you his faith by his works (James 2:18).
James says faith without works is dead (James 2:17).

Can a dead faith save?
Surely not.

So Paul is saying we are not saved by Works Alone.
James is saying we are not saved by Faith Alone.
In other words, you need both faith and works as a part of the salvation process.

For if we are not saved by doing any kind of good works in any way whatsoever, that means we can be drunken axe murdering rapists and we can still be saved (despite being that way).
 
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redleghunter

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Always good to get the actual Biblical definition.

From Vines Dictionary of the Bible:

Strong's Number: g5485 Greek: charis
Grace:

has various uses,

(a) objective, that which bestows or occasions pleasure, delight, or causes favorable regard; it is applied, e.g., to beauty, or gracefulness of person, Luk 2:40; act, 2Cr 8:6, or speech, Luk 4:22, RV, "words of grace" (AV, "gracious words"); Col 4:6;

(b) subjective,

(1) on the part of the bestower, the friendly disposition from which the kindly act proceeds, graciousness, loving-kindness, goodwill generally, e.g., Act 7:10; especially with reference to the Divine favor or "grace," e.g., Act 14:26; in this respect there is stress on its freeness and universality, its spontaneous character, as in the case of God's redemptive mercy, and the pleasure or joy He designs for the recipient; thus it is set in contrast with debt, Rom 4:4, 16, with works, Rom 11:6, and with law, Jhn 1:17; see also, e.g., Rom 6:14, 15; Gal 5:4;

(2) on the part of the receiver, a sense of the favor bestowed, a feeling of gratitude, e.g., Rom 6:17 ("thanks"); in this respect it sometimes signifies "to be thankful," e.g., Luk 17:9 ("doth he thank the servant?" lit., "hath he thanks to"); 1Ti 1:12;

(c) in another objective sense, the effect of "grace," the spiritual state of those who have experienced its exercise, whether

(1) a state of "grace," e.g., Rom 5:2; 1Pe 5:12; 2Pe 3:18, or

(2) a proof thereof in practical effects, deeds of "grace," e.g., 1Cr 16:3, RV, "bounty" (AV, "liberality"); 2Cr 8:6, 19 (in 2Cr 9:8 it means the sum of earthly blessings); the power and equipment for ministry, e.g., Rom 1:5; 12:6; 15:15; 1Cr 3:10; Gal 2:9; Eph 3:2, 7.

To be in favor with is to find "grace" with, e.g., Act 2:47; hence it appears in this sense at the beginning and the end of several Epistles, where the writer desires "grace" from God for the readers, e.g., Rom 1:7; 1Cr 1:3; in this respect it is connected with the imperative mood of the word chairo, "to rejoice," a mode of greeting among Greeks, e.g., Act 15:23; Jam 1:1 (marg.); 2Jo 1:10, 11, RV, "greeting" (AV, "God speed").

The fact that "grace" is received both from God the Father, 2Cr 1:12, and from Christ, Gal 1:6; Rom 5:15 (where both are mentioned), is a testimony to the deity of Christ. See also 2Th 1:12, where the phrase "according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ" is to be taken with each of the preceding clauses, "in you," "and ye in Him."

In Jam 4:6, "But He giveth more grace" (Greek, "a greater grace," RV, marg.), the statement is to be taken in connection with the preceding verse, which contains two remonstrating, rhetorical questions, "Think ye that the Scripture speaketh in vain?" and "Doth the Spirit (the Holy Spirit) which He made to dwell in us long unto envying?" (see the RV). The implied answer to each is "it cannot be so." Accordingly, if those who are acting so flagrantly, as if it were so, will listen to the Scripture instead of letting it speak in vain, and will act so that the Holy Spirit may have His way within, God will give even "a greater grace," namely, all that follows from humbleness and from turning away from the world.
See BENEFIT, BOUNTY, LIBERALITY, THANK.

Note: The corresponding verb charitoo, "to endue with Divine favor or grace," is used in Luk 1:28, "highly favored" (marg., "endued with grace") and Eph 1:6, AV, "hath made... accepted;" RV, "freely bestowed" (marg., "enduced.").

https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/dictionary/viewTopic.cfm?topic=VT0001230

Theopedia Grace:

Theopedia
Grace

Grace is unmerited favor. Oswald Chambers adds that, "The gospel of the grace of God awakens an intense longing in human souls and an equally intense resentment, because the truth that it reveals is not palatable or easy to swallow. There is a certain pride in people that causes them to give and give, but to come and accept a gift is another thing. I will give my life to martyrdom; I will dedicate my life to service I will do anything. But do not humiliate me to the level of the most hell-deserving sinner and tell me that all I have to do is accept the gift of salvation through Jesus Christ." [1]

The grace and mercy of God strikes at the very heart of humanity. It has the ability to raise the most extreme emotions by, as Oswald Chambers says, humiliating those who want to add something to their salvation. On the other hand, it can spark emotions of humility where one will "consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake [we] have lost all things" and counting them as "rubbish" (Phil. 3:8). This very grace came/comes through Jesus (John 1:17; Romans 5:15; 1 Corinthians 1:4; 2 Timothy 1:9), a sufficient grace (2 Corinthians 12:9) that is shown through the "redemption through his blood" and "forgiveness of sins" (Ephesians 1:7) and it is this grace by which we are justified (Titus 3:7) and saved (Ephesians 2:8).

Peter tells us to "set your hope fully on the grace to be given you when Jesus Christ is revealed" (1 Peter 1:13), for we worship the "God of all grace" (1 Peter 5:10). Lastly, because we are saved through the work and grace of Jesus, we may approach "the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need" (Hebrews 4:16).

https://www.theopedia.com/grace
 
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JIMINZ

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this is a great topic, so if Grace is with out responsibility of our own part at all. God can give it to anyone he likes, such as a Muslim??

.
That is 100% correct, but it must be understood by that particular Muslim that with that Faith, he is gong to become a Christian at the same time.

The Faith spoke of is the Faith that Jesus is the Christ, the Messiah to the Jews, and the Savior of the world, and died for the forgiveness of sins.

Faith when you come to think about it, is a pretty big package which is given to us in the form of Gods' Grace.....It's a life changer. :amen:
 
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com7fy8

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I would say
In your Post #1 I think you have made some very good points. Different people, here, might have different ideas about what "conditions" are. I think I will not try to get into word technicalities about what different ones here mean by "conditions".

But ones say grace is God's favor and grace is undeserved. I agree with this, basically.

But His favor includes correction > Hebrews 12:4-11. So, grace includes God's action in us to correct us so we share with Him in His holiness and in His love's "peaceable fruit of righteousness" > this is guaranteed to every child of God, according to what I read in Hebrews 12:4-11.

God's favor, then, includes how God changes our nature to become more and more like Jesus.

And so, His grace is not only how He has favored us from a distance, by forgiving us. But in us God is working His own good (Philippians 2:13) and sharing His very own good of His love "in our hearts" > Romans 5:5.

So . . . are there conditions for this? Well, a person needs to repent and be reconciled with God, so the person can become capable of benefiting from God's grace. And in order to benefit from how God takes care of us, yes we do need to obey how our Heavenly Father personally cares for each one of us (1 Peter 5:7).

But, of course, there is discussion about if it is possible for someone to obey God without God's grace changing the person to become obedient > and we might consider what Romans 6:17 says < is the thanks to God, or to us?????
 
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Well, I don't think it is in dispute that most Christians today believe we need God's grace and that we receive grace as a gift. That is pretty basic knowledge amongst the whole of Christendom. However, what most here probably don't want to see is that Paul was trying to fight against a popular heresy of the time. It was a form of salvation that did not include God's grace and it was a Works Alone Based System of Salvation (By going back to the Old Testament Law of Moses). See, Paul was not against obedience after being saved by God's grace. Paul was trying to refute people in going back to the Law of Moses as their sole justification for salvation. For Paul says, "we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter." (Romans 7:6). Paul says, "the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, ... was to be done away" (2 Corinthians 3:7). Paul was trying to refute "Circumcision Salvationism" (Which was a part of the Old Law). It's why Paul said in Romans 3:1, "what profit is there of circumcision?" It's why Paul said in Galatians 5:2, "if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing."

Paul was for obedience (to Jesus and His commands) as a necessary requirement as a part of God's saving grace.


"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." (Romans 8:1).

"For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live." (Romans 8:13).

3 "If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4 He is proud, knowing nothing,..." (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

"God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6).

For Jesus said, "...depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness" (Matthew 7:23).

Jesus said, "...if you will enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17).
 
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BTW ~ As for the pic of Jesus posted within this thread: Well, no offense, but Jesus is not white or European in appearance. Jesus was a Jew who was from the Middle East.

Granted, we should not be making or displaying any kind of images of our Savior's face at all. I believe that falls under the realm of idolatry to do so (according to Exodus 20:4-5).

"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth." (Exodus 20:4).
 
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redleghunter

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BTW ~ As for the pic of Jesus posted within this thread: Well, no offense, but Jesus is not white or European in appearance. Jesus was a Jew who was from the Middle East.

Granted, we should not be making or displaying any kind of images of our Savior's face at all. I believe that falls under the realm of idolatry to do so (according to Exodus 20).
Some of the earliest art of Jesus in avatar area.
 
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Some of the earliest art of Jesus in avatar area.

Again, I do not feel it is appropriate.

#1. Jesus is not white (Which the image shows him as being). Do you honestly believe Jesus is white?
#2. Making an image of anything in Heaven above is the first half of the command on idolatry (that we are forbidden to partake in). Bowing down to such an image is the second aspect or part of the command. But the first part of the command is just as valid as the second half. See Exodus 20:4-5.
 
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redleghunter

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Again, I do not feel it is appropriate.

#1. Jesus is not white (Which the image shows him as being). Do you honestly believe Jesus is white?
#2. Making an image of anything in Heaven above is the first half of the command on idolatry (that we are forbidden to partake in). Bowing down to such an image is the second aspect or part of the command. But the first part of the command is just as valid as the second half. See Exodus 20:4-5.
Does this include art for you?
 
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Does this include art for you?

Yes; For how exactly do you see making an image in Exodus 20:4-5 as not being a reference to artwork?

Making an image of anything above in Heaven (Whereby somebody could regard it as God whereby they could potentially bow down to it) is a violation of the command on idolatry in Exodus 20:4-5.

That would include artwork because that is what making an image is all about in Exodus 20:4.

For if you are making an image, you are making artwork.

Also, instead of lying with one's words, one would be lying about what our Savior looks like when they paint Him. Nobody today knows what Jesus truly looks like. People are only guessing. He most certainly is not white. To paint a white version of Jesus is to paint a lie. To make Jesus white is to try and make him into a religious figure that is more appealing to us (Because we are white).

Personally, I would never want to make Jesus into something that He is not.
Imagine how you would feel if somebody painted you as being entirely different in appearance and saying that is you. It's worse for our Lord because He desires us to worship Him in spirit and in truth (See John 4:24). I would never want to accidentally lead people to worship a false image of our Lord that I created or that I promoted.

I truly hope you see where I am coming from.
 
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I mean, how would you feel if people painted Jesus to be like a woman?
What if they painted him to be fat?
What if they painted him to have no arms?
Would that be appropriate?
No. Because it would be painting a lie.
Just as painting Jesus to look white is a lie.
It is a false image of our Lord.
Again, we should not be making or promoting images (artwork) of our Lord (in general), anyways. It's what the command on idolatry in Exodus 20:4 is all about.
 
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redleghunter

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Yes; For how exactly do you see making an image in Exodus 20:4-5 as not being a reference to artwork?

Making an image of anything above in Heaven (Whereby somebody could regard it as God whereby they could potentially bow down to it) is a violation of the command on idolatry in Exodus 20:4-5.

That would include artwork because that is what making an image is all about in Exodus 20:4.

For if you are making an image, you are making artwork.

Also, instead of lying with one's words, one would be lying about what our Savior looks like when they paint Him. Nobody today knows what Jesus truly looks like. People are only guessing. He most certainly is not white. To paint a white version of Jesus is to paint a lie. To make Jesus white is to try and make him into a religious figure that is more appealing to us (Because we are white).

Personally, I would never want to make Jesus into something that He is not.
Imagine how you would feel if somebody painted you as being entirely different in appearance and saying that is you. It's worse for our Lord because He desires us to worship Him in spirit and in truth (See John 4:24). I would never want to accidentally lead people to worship a false image of our Lord that I created or that I promoted.

I truly hope you see where I am coming from.
Your avatar is a work of art. I don't think you worship and burn incense on the high places.

I believe discerning believers know the difference between art and idol.

Some don't and I do agree if we adorn our homes and places of worship with images and create mini altars for them that is idolatry.
 
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