Why Jerusalem is Mystically Called Sodom and Egypt

LittleLambofJesus

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We are all Egyptian, all of us are Assyrian.

''Out of Egypt I have called my son,'' is a prophecy of Ephraim.

It was fulfilled in Christ when he came as the son of Joseph, being the first born son.

For I am a Father to Israel,
And Ephraim is My firstborn.

Hosea 11

When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son.
2But the more they were called, the more they went away from me.a

They sacrificed to the Baalsand they burned incense to images.

3It was I who taught Ephraim to walk,

taking them by the arms;

but they did not realize

it was I who healed them.
So what does that have to do with Sodom and Egypt symbolizing OC Jerusalem and Judea/Israel?


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LittleLambofJesus

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Originally Posted by 1whirlwind
I must disagree. Jerusalem is not "the great city." Jerusalem wasn't mentioned...it is us mistakenly assuming Jerusalem is the place. Jesus was crucified just outside the gates of Jerusalem...not in Jerusalem. In other words, He was crucified in the world for the world is the great city Babylon.

Sodom/wickedness and Egypt/carnal, worldly lusts are where the dead bodies lie.


You obviously took this too far. The scriptures state that Jesus was crucified in Jerusalem and I believe you already knew that and would have no problem saying so under different circumstances.

Luke 13:33 “Nevertheless I must journey on today and tomorrow and the next day; for it cannot be that a prophet would perish outside of Jerusalem. 34 “ O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, just as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not have it!

Matt. 20:17 [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] As Jesus was about to go up to Jerusalem, He took the twelve disciples aside by themselves, and on the way He said to them, 18 “Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem; and the Son of Man will be delivered to the chief priests and scribes, and they will condemn Him to death,

The comparison between Egypt, Sodom and the great city where our Lord was crucified is mystical, which your explanation is not. The mystical comparison is as was revealed to me by the Holy Spirit that Jerusalem is called Egypt because it is where when Jesus was crucified we were released from our captivity of condemnation just as Israel, which is a title given to Christians, was released from captivity in Egypt.
Jerusalem is mystically called Sodom because it is where when Jesus was crucified he wiped out sin just as he did when destroyed Sodom.
Bro. James D Albright
-----------
Jerusalem was also mentioned as being like Sodom and Gomarrah, tho it appears that was more of a reference to the prophets...


Jer 23:14
I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem a horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness:
they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah.




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Daniel1136

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Revelation 11 has this evaluation of the city of Jerusalem

This is not the great city of the gentiles defined here [Revelation 14:8; 17:16-18; 18:1-21]

Jerusalem is the Lord's city which will continue on into eternity, the great city of Revelation 18 will be destroyed by Satan's beast and his 10 human kings, never to rise again

The reason that Jerusalem is called Sodom and Egypt is because of Israel's intransigence against the Lord
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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LittleLambofJesus

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Revelation 11 has this evaluation of the city of Jerusalem

This is not the great city of the gentiles defined here [Revelation 14:8; 17:16-18; 18:1-21]

Jerusalem is the Lord's city which will continue on into eternity, the great city of Revelation 18 will be destroyed by Satan's beast and his 10 human kings, never to rise again

The reason that Jerusalem is called Sodom and Egypt is because of Israel's intransigence against the Lord
I would say that is true..........
 
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Erik Nelson

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In Rev 11:8 Jerusalem is called Sodom because it is where, when Jesus died and arose from the dead He completely wiped out sin as He did in Sodom when He completely destroyed it by fire and brimstone. Analysis of the ashen remains of Sodom, which was rediscovered by Wyatt Archeological Research, has shown that this comparison is accurate since they could not reignite the ashen remains that they recovered from the site of Gomorrah.
Jerusalem is mystically called Egypt because when Jesus died and arose from the dead in Jerusalem He released us from the captivity of death as He by His power alone released Israel, which symbolizes Christians, from captivity in Egypt.
Rev. 11:8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which mystically is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.
Bro. James D Albright

Sodom is a general reference to sin. Egypt, like Babylon, held the Israelites in captivity ("let my people go"), much as the Sadducees & Pharisees sought to crucify Jesus to prevent the Gospel & Church from "escaping" them to reach gentiles.
 
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BABerean2

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Gal 4:24  which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar— 

Gal 4:25  for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children— 

Gal 4:26  but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all. (See Hebrews 11:16)


Earthly Jerusalem both then and now is the city of bondage.

The New Jerusalem is our destination.

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LittleLambofJesus

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I seen your footprints at my door. You common in anytime even when i'm not there an make yourself a cup of tea. I'm not much of a visitor, but i'm friendly.

My view of what it means when they say Sodom and Egypt is thus. These two places were occupied before the crossing of the Jordan into the Old Testament Covanant. These two places mean and represent the old way of living called survival of the fittest.
It is where there is no law of Justice yet and everone makes deals to benifit himself. Even Jacob made a deal with God for his own advantage.

But after they crossed Jordan the Israelit began to live following the law of Justise.

The ones who kill the two witnesses/two churches are the human beings who follow the Serpent. The serpent in the Bible means "survival of the fittest." It is the original law of nature which the serpent led Adam and Eve out into.
Thats why the Jordan Crossing is such a milestone in Biblical history.
ChapterSix%20(3).jpg
That is a rather innovative view.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Sodom is a general reference to sin. Egypt, like Babylon, held the Israelites in captivity ("let my people go"), much as the Sadducees & Pharisees sought to crucify Jesus to prevent the Gospel & Church from "escaping" them to reach gentiles.
The whole chapter of Deut 28 is about the blessings and curses that will befall the Israelites and I feel if God wouln't allowed Jerusalem, it's OC Temple and Priesthood to be destroyed, in my opinion, both Jews and Gentiles would be more hamstrung by the OC Jewish rulers and customs of Moses:

I find this interesting:

Deuteronomy 28:
15 If, however, you do not obey Yahweh thy Elohiym by carefully following all His commandments and statutes I am giving you today,
all these curses will come upon you and overtake you:
68
And Yahweh will take you back to Egypt in ships, by the way of which I said to you, ‘You shall never see it again.'
And there you shall be offered for sale to your enemies as male and female slaves, but no one will buy you.


Have you and/or others read Josephus' account of the 70ad destruction of Jerusalem?
I could practically harmonize the Olivet Discourse and Revelation to his discourse. Fascinating:

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover................

Of the Jews destroyed during the siege, Josephus reckons not less than ONE MILLION AND ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND, .................Not less than two thousand laid violent hands upon themselves.
Of the captives the whole was about NINETY-SEVEN THOUSAND.

........the tallest and most beautiful youths, together with several of the Jewish nobles were reserved by Titus to grace his triumphal entry into Rome.
After this selection, all above the age of seventeen were sent in chains into Egypt, to be employed there as slaves,
or distributed throughout the empire to be sacrificed as gladiators in the amphitheatres ;
whilst those who were under this age, were exposed to sale.[Deuteronomy 28:68]

Luke 21:24
And they shall be falling to mouth of sword and they shall be being led captive into all the nations.
And Jerusalem shall be being trodden by nations until which may be being filled times of nations.

[Deuteronomy 28:68/Reve 11:2/13:10]

Reve 13:10
If any to-captivity into captivity is going away.
If any in sword to be killed, is binding him in sword to be killed.
Here is the endurance and the faith of the saints.

[Luke 21:24]
 
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TribulationSigns

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This is not the great city of the gentiles defined here [Revelation 14:8; 17:16-18; 18:1-21]

Unfortunately this idea once permeated the church, the web and sadly many reformed institutions. Nevertheless, it has no real Biblical foundation. At least none that will hold up under careful scrutiny. Babylon is not the false "world system," nor it a literal city in Europe or Middle East. It is the false "Religious System" WITH the congregation. It is that once Great City Jerusalem, gone bad. Not physical city, but the New Testament Congregation - the home of Two Witnesses (Christians). It is the same once great city that eventually kills the two witnesses (Revelation 11) within her. These two witnesses of Revelation 11 "represent" the true believers who are faithful witnesses in that church. They were the one who have received power from God with the Holy Ghost to bring Gospel to the world. Remember, they are not killed outside in the world, they're killed on the streets of that same great city, but only after they have finished their witness or testimony. And again, they were killed by God's people who resided there. More specifically, the false prophets, the false christs, and the professing Christians who were tortured by their truthful testimony and witness against their disobedience. She is spiritually Babylon, spiritually Sodom, spiritually Egypt, all are simply terms to identify this people's spiritual condition. Not physical city.

Revelation 11:7-8
  • "And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
  • And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
When the Apostle John, under inspiration of God, called Jerusalem spiritually Sodom and Egypt, He wasn't saying that this was the city of Sodom or it was the nation Egypt, rather, He was using these well known biblical references to illustrate the spiritual condition of this "Great City" where Christ was Crucified, and that will kill His two true witnesses of God. Again, it is the congregation Babylon within which these two witnesses resided, and within which they were killed. For example, the congregation that has become spiritually Babylon, full of abominations that will leave it desolate. The congregation that has become spiritually as Sodom was, and spiritually as Egypt was. In other words, it is full of rebellion against God, and abominations that will leave it desolate.

Matthew 10:19-22
  • "But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
  • For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
  • And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
  • And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved."
Christ warned about spiritual war between congregation members! True believers v.s professed believers. Brother against brother, just as it was with Cain and Abel, family against family, generation against generation, nation against nation, kingdom against kingdom, Christ against the antichrist, the man of God against the man of sin. And the two witnesses will be silenced (killed) in the great city so that their truthful testimony will not be heard in church anymore. This is the apostasy of the church! The enemies do not like to hear God's Word, but the smooth sayings of their false prophets and christs in the church! But it is NOT as a sign of defeat for God's Elect, but of the end of that great city as a representation of God's Kingdom just like Old Testament Congregation of Israel was in days of Christ! That Great city falls as a great stone. For though the faithful testimony in this congregation is finished, the saints are not hurt nor destroyed because their refuge is the Lord's Holy Mountain.

Babylon, the city of confusion, is a representation of a spiritually bankrupt congregation.

[The reason that Jerusalem is called Sodom and Egypt is because of Israel's intransigence against the Lord

Again, you got wrong Jerusalem. God is not talking about physical city or Jewish city. In the new testament, God sees His Christ as his representative of His Kingdom on earth. The church is that great city. We, Christians, are made merchants of the merchandise of Gospel which the great city was blessed with. BEcuase of the rise of false prophets and christs (as well as people they have deceived) has come against God's Two Witnesses to overcome their testimony and killed them (silence them), so they can rejoice and exchange gifts of false doctrines as they please. For example, they want to tolerate homosexuality marriages, or even allow gay people to be pastors. They allowed women to become pastor. They teach free will doctrines. They teach prosperity gospel, etc. etc. The doctrines (words) coming out of the mouth is the power of the false prophets and christs. Their swords are the words that came out of their mouth. It lead many people into spiritual bondage:

Luke 21:24 KJV
  • And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
The Gentiles are the heathen that came into church pretend to be Christians. God is using them as a judgment upon His unfaithful congregation so that they will believe a lie, 2nd Thess 2:8-12. They have replaced Christ with their own doctrine in God's Great City which has became spiritually what is called Sodom and Egypt. Spiritually speaking, Sodom represents abominations. Egypt represents spiritual bondage. This is how many people in the church has brought abominations into the church that lead themselves into spiritual bondage so that they, too, will be as lost as the Gentiles (heathen).
 
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TribulationSigns

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And I also like to correct some misinterpretation about Babylon the Great.

Revelation 18:20-24 KJV
[20] Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.
[21] And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.
[22] And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;
[23] And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
[24] And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Many people misunderstood about "all" in verse 24. Yes, all always means all. But the word "all" in scripture is often "qualified", meaning, we have to find out what "all" is it talking about. All of whom, or all of what? Is it all the prophets, all the saints, all of them that were slain upon the earth, or is it all mankind, you me, the apostle Paul and Peter. Or is it only "all" the unsaved of the earth. Before we can assume, we need to know what particular "all" is in view. Going about it systematically, it can't mean "all" of mankind because the redeemed are part of mankind and yet they don't have the blood of prophets and saints on their hands. So yes, all means all, but the question is, all of whom.

The way the word is qualified, is by other scriptures. God's word doesn't exist in a vacuum, it is always contingent or conditioned by other scriptures. Just as when Satan tempted Christ in the wilderness when he said, "it is written." He quoted scripture (Matthew 4:6-7) that was absolutely true and trustworthy. But in order to understand that scripture correctly, we must read the whole Bible and see it in the light of all other scriptures. It is only then that we learn that "other" Scriptures qualify the passage hat Satan quoted. His Scripture is true, but it was only part of the truth. Which is why Jesus said, it is written again, or "more" is written. And Christ gave another scripture that qualified the verse Satan gave. That is our example of how to approach Bible study. The word often "qualifies" and defines the word. Or to put it another way, the Scriptures interpret themselves. For example, Christ died for all, but He didn't die for the wicked. That's no contradiction, because the qualifier is that Christ died for "all" of His chosen people.

Matthew 1:21
  • "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins."
Therefore, all who dwell in the world are not secret/mystery Babylon, else we have contradiction after contradiction. Babylon signifies a city "in" the world, not the world itself. The kings of the world fornicate with "this city" Babylon. You can't have the world fornicating with itself. There is no symbolism in Scripture that supports that.

Revelation 14:8
  • "And there followed another messenger, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication."
Again, clearly God illustrates this woman is a great city in the world, a city that the nations "of the world" drink her wine and (like Israel before them) commit spiritual fornication. She is a spiritual Harlot.

Revelation 17:5
  • "And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."
God calls her that great city, not that great earth or world. Here in this verse God calls her the mother of harlots and abominations of the earth, "not" the earth itself. That great city and a Harlot is the exact same words God called "His congregation" Israel because of their spiritual unfaithfulness. Again, Scripture interprets Scripture.

As for Cain being the one who slew Abel,

Genesis 4:9-11
  • "And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?
  • And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.
  • And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;"

The message is not that the world can drink blood, or that the world is responsible for Abel's blood, but that "Cain" is. The blood Cain spilled on the ground in symbolism is a witness against him. God saying the earth is drinking it is a metaphor, not a declaration that the world is responsible.

When God says now you are cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand, He is simply saying that because you (speaking to Cain) spilled blood on the earth, the earth will not yield to him its increase as before. It is as a "testimony" to his sin, not that the earth is responsible for Abel's murder. This also confirmed in the very next verse, 12.

The portrait painted here is that Cain is the first unbeliever of God's people, the first "brother" to rise up in the family against the Lord's chosen and slay him. Cain is the first of the generation (or family) of evil, the first of the line of those who hate and are offended by the Lord's servants. There would be many more after Cain. This is also illustrated in Israel when Christ called those of His people belong to the same family of evil. If we consider the mystery wisely, Christ tells us who Babylon is and why all the blood from Abel to his time is required of her.

Matthew 23:31-35
  • "Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
  • Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
  • Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
  • Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
  • That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
  • Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation."
Christ didn't claim that all the blood from Abel to Zechariah would be upon the whole world. Christ didn't say that the world were the seed, the family, the generation of them that killed the prophets. Christ didn't say the world was responsible for killing, persecuting, crucifying and scourging the prophets in their synagogues, Christ said perfectly clearly that it was these people, "His OWN people," who were responsible for this, and who did all these things, and who the blood of Abel was upon. Not the world. THEM --the unfaithful of His own very congregation. The children of those who slew the prophets. That generation or family of evil. They are the one who has spiritually become Babylon!

How were "they" responsible for the blood of Abel? Just as Christ explained, they were the children (family) of those who killed the prophets. Even though they protested that they would never do such a thing, Christ knew they had the exact same murderous, wicked heart of their father the devil. And that congregation is measured the same as their fathers, and would become a cage of devils, the hateful birds. This was all proven, of course, as they ended up having Christ crucified, fulfilling Christ's words. They were of that "same" evil generation or family that Cain was of. The whole unfaithful family of Gods congregation (not the world) were the ones killing God's prophets. Read Bible history, it's all right there illustrating that the major antagonists of God's servants were God's own people! The rebellion was spiritual brother against brother, Israel against Israel, The Jews against their God. These verses 34 and 35 could have been taken right out of the text of God concerning Babylon, because they are nearly identical. Babylon is the unfaithful congregation, the harlot, "the great harlot" which God called Israel again, again, and again! Scripture interprets Scripture. Babylon is a contradiction if it represents the world.

Luke 11:47-51
  • "Woe unto you! for ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and your fathers killed them.
  • Truly ye bear witness that ye allow the deeds of your fathers: for they indeed killed them, and ye build their sepulchres.
  • Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute:
  • That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;
  • From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation."
It shall be required of "THIS" family/generation, all of "THIS" generation of vipers, all of "THIS" evil and adulterous generation or family of Satan. They are considered adulterous because they are betrothed to God, corporatelly speaking! The children of the devil residing ALONG WITH the Lord's true servants and slaying them. They are the ones the church should be wary of, not the world. Not Iran. Not United States of America! The world isn't going to kill the witnesses of the church, it is the people of the church itself, as spiritually Babylon! That is why many people totally missed it because it is a mystery! Did you ever wondered WHY is God's own unfaithful congregation called "mystery" Babylon? For the exact reason that so many of the church cannot see who she is. Only very few recognize her as the unfaithful church. We have many people, even here, are too busy claiming she's America, Iraq, the United Nations, Rome, the world system, Mecca, London Royal Bank of Scotland, or even physical city of Jerusalem in the Middle East, the list is endless! But those are all private interpretations!! Period! God interprets the harlot as His congregation, His people.

Revelation 17:7
  • "And the messenger said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns."
Think about it. If Babylon is the world or even city Jerusalem, who is the Beast with 10 horns (10 kings) that carries her? The Messenger of the Covenant will explain what is meant by the symbolism of this great city that is now full of abominations, and the secret meaning including the beast and horns and rules. But it is a mystery for a reason, it's in symbolism for a reason, just as Christ said of Israel, that seeing they will see and not understand. The "Revelation" of the mystery is for saints who let Scripture interpret Scripture. Cain, Esau, Judas, etc, they're all of the same generation and the blood of the prophets are required both of them, and of these today of that same generation is still running today until Christ returned. "THAT" generation that will not pass until all is fulfilled.

Selah!
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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could it be vatican city that is spiritually called sodom?

killing the prophets ...
I myself don't think so.
The Roman currency "denarius" is mentioned in Revelation, and this verse appears to symbolize "FAMINE" and that occurred during the Roman siege of Jerusalem in 70ad according to Josephus.

Revelation 6:6
And I hear a voice in midst of the four living-ones saying:
"choinex of grain/wheat a denarius
and three choinex of barleys a denarius,
and the oil and the wine no you should be injuring".

Matthew 24:19
'And woe to those with child, and to those giving suck in those days;
Mark 13:17
'And woe to those with child, and to those giving suck, in those days;
Luke 21:23
And woe to those with child, and to those giving suck, in those days;
for there shall be great distress on the land, and wrath on this people;
Luke 23:29
for behold! days do come, in which they shall say, 'Happy the barren, and wombs that did not bare, and paps that did not give suck'


http://www.bible.ca/pre-destruction70AD-george-holford-1805AD.htm

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover..............

Meanwhile the horrors of famine grew still more melancholy and afflictive.
The Jews, for of food were at length compelled to eat their belts, their sandals, the skins of their shields, dried grass, and even the ordure of oxen.
In the depth or this horrible extremity, a Jewess of noble family urged by the intolerable cravings of hunger, slew her infant child, and prepared it for a meal.
............

Reve 18:8
by this, in one day shall be arriving the blows of Her, death and sorrow and famine; and in fire She shall be being burned,
that strong Lord, the God, the one judging Her

Jer 14:16
‘And the people to whom they prophesy shall be cast out in the streets of Jerusalem because of the famine and the sword;
they will have no one to bury them—them nor their wives, their sons nor their daughters—for I will pour their wickedness on them

Eze 14:21
For thus says the Lord GOD: “How much more it shall be when I send My four severe judgments on Jerusalem
the sword and famine and wild beasts and pestilence—to cut off man and beast from it?
 
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TribulationSigns

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I myself don't think so.

Of course not, its not Vatican.

The Roman currency "denarius" is mentioned in Revelation, and this verse appears to symbolize "FAMINE" and that occurred during the Roman siege of Jerusalem in 70ad according to Josephus.

According to Josephus a lot of things are and were, that aren't and weren't. Your own word (contradictorily) say much. Contradiction does not make for a sound, systemartic, analytical, Biblical, Sola-Scriptura interpretation of God's word, by God's word. Interpretation by the words of Josephus God would never advise. It's a known "fact" that many of Josephu's writings are biased and some just plain not true. Which says it all as far as using him as an authority on Hebrew (God authored) prophecy fullfilled and Christian doctrine or understanding. Wisdom manifests itself in accepting the Bible alone as the authoritative revelator of prophesy. Not the "well respected" writings of the unbelievers who write their views of history.

Proverbs 1:5-8
  • "A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:
  • To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings.
  • The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
  • My son, hear the instruction of thy father, and forsake not the law of thy mother:"
God says a man of understanding will attain unto wise counsels to understand a proverb and the interpretation. ...that would not be Josephus nor those who depend upon his writings for validation, but the inerrant authoritative word of God. When God tells you what abominations are in His Holy Temple, it's inerrant so we should listen. When God defines desolation there because of abominations, it's inerrant, so we should listen and compare. So while according to Josephus, the fundamental cause of the fall of Jerusalem and destruction of the temple was God through the abominations of Romans acting out in it and tearing it down, God says it is "His People" who practiced the abominations in His house, and it is "His People" that will fall down with not one left as a stone in that building. It is Christ who is the New building, the corner stone of their Temple that was rejected is become head of the corner anyway, and the restoration of stones from every nation. The Holy Temple is reestablished in the nations, as the judgment of His people is that the Kingdom has been taken from them and given to another. God's words, not mine. Not the words of Josephus, Calvin or John Walvoord, but God's inerrant word of truth and interpretation.

As righteous Joseph said, "Do not interpretations belong to God?" Indeed they do. Flavius Josephus notwithstanding.

Matthew 24:19
'And woe to those with child, and to those giving suck in those days;
Mark 13:17
'And woe to those with child, and to those giving suck, in those days;
Luke 21:23
And woe to those with child, and to those giving suck, in those days;
for there shall be great distress on the land, and wrath on this people;
Luke 23:29
for behold! days do come, in which they shall say, 'Happy the barren, and wombs that did not bare, and paps that did not give suck'

The woman refers to both the elect, and the non-elect, because it's talking about the New Testament Church. Not an unholy Jewish Temple practicing sacrilege in AD 70, but the Church. The Church is the only physical holy place after the cross that could have abomination stand in it. Those told to flee are the elect. Those on the housetops are the elect. Those in the field (at this time) are the elect. Those with child is a "figure" of the Church (Read Galatians how God illustrated in the allegory that in the New Testament era, the woman that has more children is a figure of the New Testament Church). Thus God is saying, Woe to the Church! Why? Because "she" will be judged of God as the great harlot Babylon that she is. And that is why the elect are commanded to flee to the mountains, that they not be partaker with her (Revelation 18). Again, when we read it in context and comparing scripture with scripture for our interpretation, we have consistency. Her children who won't be able to suck are professed Christian who won't receive the Truth as a judgment from Almighty God.
 
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Traveling teacher

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a little history...
Israel was taken to Egypt during the days of egypt....for 400 years
they took part in idolatry...and it took years for God to take it out of them....

Also Israel was exiled into Babylon for 70 years....500bc
around this time budhism and hinduism appeared.....

The name babylon means confusion.....

much sins and deception and worship of false gods came from these countries.....
also sodom......

i believe also that muhamed and islam 700ad came out of ancient babylonian religion....
as muhamed came from about the same area as babylon( Iraq)
 
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Douggg

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First, I want to thank you for using paragraphs in this response. Some of your posts are very difficult to read for my old eyes. :thumbsup:


Secondly, I must disagree on the above. What is revealed to us by the Spirit must find foundation within His Word or...it is in error and we need to keep searching.

Jerusalem is not mystically called Sodom. Rather, what is written is...


Revelation 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
It is the great city being spiritually called Sodom and Egypt....not Jerusalem. Why is the great city "spiritually" given those names? Because it isn't a literal city and needs to be seen spiritually. She represents all of what Sodom and Egypt represent, wickedness and carnality. That great city is.....


Revelation 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

18:10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like agreat millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.


Our Lord was crucified in that great city Babylon, not Jerusalem, for she is the world ruled by the prince of darkness. He was crucified by, for and in her....

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


.

Hi whirlwind, if you make that jump which sounds reasonable. Are you willing to make the next jump that Babylon the Great is the invisible kingdom of Satan and his angels overshadowing the earth?

And that when the war in Revelation 12 in the second heaven takes place and Satan and his angels are cast down to earth is Babylon, has fallen, has fallen. The beginning of the dismantling of Satan's kingdom.

And that it's demise is being metaphorically compared to some great trading city that suddenly gets destroyed in a short time.

24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
 
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BABerean2

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And that when the war in Revelation 12 in the second heaven takes place and Satan and his angels are cast down to earth is Babylon, has fallen, has fallen.

Do you think that Satan and the wicked angels who followed him now live in the presence of God and Christ, and our dead Brothers and Sisters?


2Pe_2:4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment;


Jud_1:6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;


Or, were they cast out of heaven long ago?

.
 
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Douggg

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Do you think that Satan and the wicked angels who followed him now live in the presence of God and Christ, and our dead Brothers and Sisters?
No, not in the third heaven. But second heaven, first heaven, and earth.

BaB2, the whole bible is basically about God's plans to destroy Satan and the angels who sided with him.

Insight to this is Jesus come to destroy the works of the devil.

When the seventh trumpet blows, there is the war in the second heaven, and Satan and his angels is cast down... Babylon is fallen is fallen, is the dismantling of Satan and his angels invisible Kingdom. Satan, according to the text, knows what it means, his time of being a terror is almost up.

The keys given to Satan to open the bottomless pit is to release all them there for the time of their destruction.

The mystery of God to finally be revealed in Revelation 10 is talking about the consummation of His plans to destroy Satan and his angels.

Or, were they cast out of heaven long ago?
Before the primordial world of the dinosaurs that God destroyed turning it into a lifeless featureless without form world, void.

Genesis 2:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
 
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Erik Nelson

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Please recall Revelation was written to Greek Churches. The NIV Cultural Backgrounds Study Bible and 1st Century Study Bible both note that Greek myths, e.g. of Apollo's birth, abound with stories of riverine deities sending riverine floods against their enemies.

Offer that the dragon spewing water evokes to Greeks images of hostile dragon deities amidst rivers... the net effect may be to link the dragon to the serpent of multiple-rivered Eden?
 
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Erik Nelson

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Do you think that Satan and the wicked angels who followed him now live in the presence of God and Christ, and our dead Brothers and Sisters?


2Pe_2:4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment;


Jud_1:6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;


Or, were they cast out of heaven long ago?

.
Prof. Michael Heiser is confident that the event in Revelation 12 occurred 2000 years at the birth of the Messiah.

(Or at least in some sort of "space travel" sense the effects arrived finally at Earth at the birth of the Messiah.)

The imagery suggests that the dragon knew of God's Messianic plan in advance
 
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