Did Jesus really die on a 'cross'?

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CrusaderKing

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To everyone saying it's irrelevant, I completely agree with you. What I don't find irrelevant though is what appears to be a form of worship some people contribute to the 'cross'. That alone isn't good, but when you know people also wore crosses as remembrance and worship for the son of Ba'al, then it's even worse. My last point was that the word up-right pole holds more significance. I heard recently, in some translation now instead of "virgin Mary" they're rendering it as "Young Mary" to avoid people dismissing it as crazy. But when you do this it tears away the significance of prophecy fulfillment! It's not nearly as special.

Does wearing a cross imply worship of a cross? Could this same sort of logic be applied to someone wearing a wedding ring or even a shirt representing some sports franchise?

That's a translation (IMO an errant one), I'm referring to the original manuscripts and proposing that there is a more accurate translation.

By all means provide evidence to support your argument.

Of course it would, because it's translated that way :p But as for your post, you must have had the wrong idea, I didn't mean to imply impalement. I started the thread to present the idea that reverence of the cross had been around for centuries in Babylon before Yahshua. I don't think there's any evidence for impalement, it's mostly accepted that He was nailed to an up-right pole or 'cross'.

Maybe it's translated that way because it is that way.

I've come to the realisation after writing this that while I don't overall agree with the man or men who put the books together, I do think the canonisation had some divine intervention because there's so many books out there which potentially could have made their way in but didn't.

No. A group of men decided which books would be canon and which books were not. While some books clearly do not fit with orthodox theology (see the Gnostic gospels), others do but were not included for different reasons.

I literally just seen a photo of the pope bowing down to a statue of 'Mary' wearing a crown (I put mary in inverted comers because that's not her real name). If the body was left on the crucifix it would make a lot more sense, in most cases I've seen however it's always been absent. In that state it's just another cross. And songs like "At the foot of the cross" the lyrics are blatantly admiring the cross a little too much when it could easily be "At the foot of 'Jesus".

Why not ask people what they're doing instead of jumping to conclusions? I guarantee they would tell you that they're not worshiping the Mary statue or the cross. If someone was kneeling in front of nothing in particular and praying, would it be reasonable to assume that person is worshiping air? Or maybe this person is facing some building without any visible significance. Is that person worshiping the building? Just ask and you'll get an answer.
 
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memoriesbymichelle

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"Actually, I don't. I believe in what the scribes wrote, I don't put too much trust in a translation of a translation. Then 'they' compiled a bunch of writings and told us whether it is scripture or not. I also don't put much faith in their opinions. 99% of the names in the bible are innacurate for an example. 1700's, the earliest roots of 'Jesus' are phonetically closest to that of the saviour 'Hesus' the god of the druids and the celtics who worshipped the 'Horned One'. I know you mean well so I'm sorry if all this comes off as offensive; I'm just interested in the truth and not Christianities traditions. Therefore, slapping 'Jesus' in the face won't be a problem for me since he is not my saviour. I put my trust in my saviour Yahshua of Yahuweh. Again, please do not be offended, you asked if I believed in the book we call 'The Bible', and I told you why I don't, and an example is that it doesn't even get the names remotely correct and in my opinion contains errant translations.

I've come to the realisation after writing this that while I don't overall agree with the man or men who put the books together, I do think the canonisation had some divine intervention because there's so many books out there which potentially could have made their way in but didn't."

Well that right there explains everything for me and no more need to try to "help" you get to the truth as you cannot "get it" without the Holy Spirit which is given to believers. Sorry.
 
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he-man

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The words for 'crucify' or 'cross' aren't found in the renewed covenant manuscripts, however the words used are 'stauros' and 'stauroo'. Stauros the noun refers to an 'up-right pole or stake' while Stauroo is the verb means to 'fasten to a stake or pole'. The idea of a cross originally isn't found, it was clearly a later rendering since they already had a word for cross, 'crux'.

An 'up-right pole' is so much more significant! Yahshua was our volunteered upright passover lame.

It is unimaginable the agonising pain He must have went through being falsely accused by religious leaders and to have nails through your hands, the very same people He created to have a loving relationship with.

Anyway, I won't go into detail because I think everyone should do their own research, but everything I've looked at points to the cross as originating from the son of Ba'al, not the Son of God. I don't know how I won't cry the next time I see people kneel down and worship the giant cross in the corner of my church as they often do.


Some sources I recommend: (can't un-embed youtube links :()
YouTube - False names 8 The Cross

Origin Of The Cross - Stauros, Stauroo - Sign, Symbol, Emblem, Christian, Pagan, Crux

Yada Yahweh - Book II-Called-Out Assemblies -- Chapter 5-Bikuwrym
The practice of impaling through the anus was well known and a slow excruciating death.

Definition of IMPALE
transitive verb
2a : to pierce with or as if with something pointed; especially : to torture or kill by fixing on a sharp stake b : to fix in an inescapable or helpless position

Origin of IMPALE
Middle French & Medieval Latin; Middle French empaler, from Medieval Latin impalare, from Latin in- + palus stake — more at pole Origin of POLE
Middle English, from Old English pāl stake, pole, from Latin palus stake; akin to Latin pangere to fix — pangere to fix, fasten, Greek pēgnynai
First Known Use: before 12th century
Impalement - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Yonder I see instruments of torture, not indeed of a single kind, but differently contrived by different peoples; some hang their victims with head toward the ground, some impale their private parts, others stretch out their arms on a fork-shaped gibbet; I see cords, I see scourges, and for each separate limb and each joint there is a separate engine of torture!
Seneca, Letter of Consolation to Marciam, 20 (Loeb Edition).

Other ancient civilizations connected with the practice include the Assyrians, Germanic and Britonic tribes, the Celts, the Greeks after Alexander the Great, the Phoenicians and the Carthaginians, from whom the Romans are believed to have taken the practice

Can anyone be found who would prefer wasting away in pain dying limb by limb, or letting out his life drop by drop, rather than expiring once for all? Can any man be found willing to be fastened to the accursed tree, long sickly, already deformed, swelling with ugly weals on shoulders and chest, and drawing the breath of life amid long-drawn-out agony? He would have many excuses for dying even before mounting the cross.
Seneca, Epistles (to Lucilius), 101.


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]385 ανασκολοπίζω death by fixing on a sharp stake[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]4716 σταυρωθητω to be fixed on a stake; crux, cruc ‘cross’ plus figere ‘fix’.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]4717 σταυρόω to put to death from L. crux, cruc ’cross’ plus figere’ix’.[/FONT][/FONT]
 
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timbo3

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Jesus did not die on a "cross", but died upon a torture stake, for the meaning of the Greek word stauros is properly rendered as "stake" or "pale"(see Matt 16:24, whereby Jesus used stauros, with the online interlinear Scripture4all rendering it as "pale", but then submitting "cross" below it, which is not the same as "pale"), and is used interchangeably by the Bible writers with the Greek word xylon, translated as "tree" or "wood" by the King James Bible.(Acts 5:30) There is a critical factor to be considered regarding Jesus manner of death.

The apostle Paul wrote that "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:"("tree", Greek xylon, Gal 3:13, King James Bible) For Jesus to become the "accursed" one, to fulfill the Mosaic Law, remove it and replace it with "a new covenant"(Luke 22:20), it was required for him to die upon a "tree" or more literally a "stake". Any other means of death would not meet God's requirement as a "cursed" one under the Mosaic Law and therefore make void Jesus sacrifice for the Jews, in particular.

Paul quoted from Deuteronomy 21:22,23, which says: " And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree:(Hebrew ‛ets´ ) His body shall not remain all night upon the tree (Hebrew ‛ets´ ), but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God;)" (King James Bible)

Thus, the Hebrew word ‛ets´ corresponds to the Greek word xylon and means a timber, or a "beam". To show that this is the case, at 1 Kings 6:15, in building the temple, it said that Solomon, "from the floor of the house up to the rafters of the ceiling he overlaid (the walls) with timber (Hebrew ‛ets´) inside."

Hence, "timber" ("a large piece of wood, usually squared, used in a building, for example, as a beam", Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2005) of cedar was used to overlay the walls, and was upright "timber" of wood (cedar), "from floor...to the rafters" and not "cross" forms. The online interlinear Scripture4all renders xylon as "wood".

Another Greek word used for the instrument Jesus died upon, stauros, is at Matthew 10:38; 16:24; 27:32, 40, 42 and is rendered as "pale"(online interlinear Scripture4all ), which means "fence stake: a pointed slat of wood for a fence."(Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2005) That he died upon a "pole" or "stake", is that the apostle Peter said of Jesus, that "we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:"(Acts 10:39, King James Bible; "tree", Greek xylon)

The apostle Paul told the Jews in Antioch in Pisidia, that "when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him (Jesus) down from the tree." (Acts 13:29, King James Bible; "tree", Greek xylon) The apostle Peter wrote: "Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree."(1 Peter 2:24, King James Bible; "tree", Greek xylon) Hence, Jesus died upon a "tree" or "pale", a "stake", not cross.

The Hebrews had no word for the traditional cross. To designate such an implement, they used “warp and woof,” alluding to yarns running lengthwise in a fabric and others going across it on a loom.(Lev 13:56-59) The French Dictionnaire Encyclopédique Universel (Encyclopedic Universal Dictionary) says: “For a long time we believed that the cross, considered a religious symbol, was specifically for Christians. This is not the case.”

The book Dual Heritage—The Bible and the British Museum (1986) states: “It may come as a shock to know that there is no word such as ‘cross’ in the Greek of the New Testament. The word translated ‘cross’ is always the Greek word [stau·ros´] meaning a ‘stake’ or ‘upright pale.’ The cross was not originally a Christian symbol; it is derived from Egypt and Constantine.”

The New Strong's Concise Concordance & Vine's Concise Dictionary of the Bible states that the meaning of "stauros (Strong's # 4716) denotes, primarily , "an upright pale or stake." On such malefactors were nailed for execution. Both the noun and the verb stauroo, "to fasten to a stake or pale," are originally to be distinguished from the ecclesiastical form of a two beamed "cross." The shape of the latter had its origin in ancient Chaldea, and was used as the symbol of the god Tammuz (being in the shape of the mystic Tau, the initial of his name) in that country and in adjacent lands, including Egypt. By the middle of the 3rd cent. A.D. the churches had either departed from, or had travestied, certain doctrines of the Christian faith. In order to increase the prestige of the apostate ecclesiastical system pagans were received into the churches apart from regeneration by faith, and were permitted largely to retain their pagan signs and symbols. Hence the Tau or T, in its most frequent form, with the cross-piece lowered, was adopted to stand for the "cross" of Christ."(Vine's Concise Dictionary of the Bible, pg 75, 1999 edition)

Under the Hebrew word ‛ets´ (Strong's # 6086), Vine's Concise Dictionary of the Bible says "tree; wood; timber; stick; stalk." It goes on to say that "this word may signify a single "tree," as it does in Gen. 2:9; or a genus of tree, Isa. 41:19. ‛ets´ can mean "wood as a material from which things are constructed, as a raw material to be carved, Exod. 31:5. Large unprocessed pieces of "wood or timber" are also signified by ‛ets´, Hag 1:8. The end product of wood already processed and fashioned into something may be indicated by ‛ets´, Lev 11:32. This word means "stick" or "piece of wood" in Ezek. 37:16...‛ets´ one time means "stalk," Josh. 2:6."(pg 387)

And under the Greek word xylon (Strong's # 3586), Vine's Concise Dictionary of the Bible says "wood, a piece of wood, anything made of wood," is used, with the rendering "tree,"....the tree being the stauros, the upright pale or stake to which Romans nailed those who were thus to be executed, Acts 5:30; 10:39; 13:29; 1 Pet 2:24."(pg 387-88)
Thus, whether it be ‛ets´, xylon, or stauros, the meaning was the same, that of a "tree", "timber", "wood", "stick", or "upright pale or stake" and not a cross.
 
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CryptoLutheran

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Yes, the Greek stauros includes an upright pole and can mean a number of instruments of execution from impalement to crucifixion. But it does not necessitate that there was no patibulum.

The very fact that Jesus had to carry His instrument of execution almost certainly indicates a carrying of the patibulum since the gibbet was used time and again and left in place, all that was necessary was for the condemned to carry the patibulum.

Beyond this I'm not going to take seriously the number of claims made since they are self-evident in their ridiculousness.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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he-man

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Yes, the Greek stauros includes an upright pole and can mean a number of instruments of execution from impalement to crucifixion. But it does not necessitate that there was no patibulum.

The very fact that Jesus had to carry His instrument of execution almost certainly indicates a carrying of the patibulum since the gibbet was used time and again and left in place, all that was necessary was for the condemned to carry the patibulum.

Beyond this I'm not going to take seriously the number of claims made since they are self-evident in their ridiculousness.

-CryptoLutheran
Looks like impalement to me:
1Pe 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the stick, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]ξυλον ξυλιά stick [/FONT][/FONT]by implication a stick

Act 5:27 And when they had brought them, they set them before the council: and the high priest
30
The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and suspendeded on a stick.

Act 10:39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and suspendeded on a stick:

Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that suspendeth on a stick:

Deu 21:22 And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou suspended him on a stick:

23 His body shall not remain all night upon the stick, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is suspended is accursed of God;) that thy land be not defiled, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.

Gal 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]ξυλον ξυλιά stick [/FONT][/FONT]by implication a stick
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]1 Pet 2:24[/FONT][/FONT]
 
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redleghunter

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The words for 'crucify' or 'cross' aren't found in the renewed covenant manuscripts, however the words used are 'stauros' and 'stauroo'. Stauros the noun refers to an 'up-right pole or stake' while Stauroo is the verb means to 'fasten to a stake or pole'. The idea of a cross originally isn't found, it was clearly a later rendering since they already had a word for cross, 'crux'.

An 'up-right pole' is so much more significant! Yahshua was our volunteered upright passover lame.

It is unimaginable the agonising pain He must have went through being falsely accused by religious leaders and to have nails through your hands, the very same people He created to have a loving relationship with.

Anyway, I won't go into detail because I think everyone should do their own research, but everything I've looked at points to the cross as originating from the son of Ba'al, not the Son of God. I don't know how I won't cry the next time I see people kneel down and worship the giant cross in the corner of my church as they often do.


Some sources I recommend: (can't un-embed youtube links :()

Origin Of The Cross - Stauros, Stauroo - Sign, Symbol, Emblem, Christian, Pagan, Crux

Yada Yahweh - Book II-Called-Out Assemblies -- Chapter 5-Bikuwrym
We have a lot from history on how people have been crucified.

4717 stauróō – to crucify, literally used of the Romans crucifying Christ on a wooden cross. "Crucify" (4717 /stauróō) is also used figuratively of putting the old self to death by submitting all decisions (desires) to the Lord. This utterly and decisively rejects the decision to live independently from Him.
 
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Jesus did not die on a "cross", but died upon a torture stake, for the meaning of the Greek word stauros is properly rendered as "stake" or "pale"(see Matt 16:24, whereby Jesus used stauros, with the online interlinear Scripture4all rendering it as "pale", but then submitting "cross" below it, which is not the same as "pale"), and is used interchangeably by the Bible writers with the Greek word xylon, translated as "tree" or "wood" by the King James Bible.(Acts 5:30) There is a critical factor to be considered regarding Jesus manner of death.
The apostle Paul wrote that "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:"("tree", Greek xylon, Gal 3:13, King James Bible) For Jesus to become the "accursed" one, to fulfill the Mosaic Law, remove it and replace it with "a new covenant"(Luke 22:20), it was required for him to die upon a "tree" or more literally a "stake". Any other means of death would not meet God's requirement as a "cursed" one under the Mosaic Law and therefore make void Jesus sacrifice for the Jews, in particular.
Paul quoted from Deuteronomy 21:22,23, which says: " And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree:(Hebrew ‛ets´ ) His body shall not remain all night upon the tree (Hebrew ‛ets´ ), but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God;)" (King James Bible)
Thus, the Hebrew word ‛ets´ corresponds to the Greek word xylon and means a timber, or a "beam". To show that this is the case, at 1 Kings 6:15, in building the temple, it said that Solomon, "from the floor of the house up to the rafters of the ceiling he overlaid (the walls) with timber (Hebrew ‛ets´) inside."
Hence, "timber" ("a large piece of wood, usually squared, used in a building, for example, as a beam", Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2005) of cedar was used to overlay the walls, and was upright "timber" of wood (cedar), "from floor...to the rafters" and not "cross" forms. The online interlinear Scripture4all renders xylon as "wood".
Another Greek word used for the instrument Jesus died upon, stauros, is at Matthew 10:38; 16:24; 27:32, 40, 42 and is rendered as "pale"(online interlinear Scripture4all ), which means "fence stake: a pointed slat of wood for a fence."(Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2005) That he died upon a "pole" or "stake", is that the apostle Peter said of Jesus, that "we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:"(Acts 10:39, King James Bible; "tree", Greek xylon)
The apostle Paul told the Jews in Antioch in Pisidia, that "when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him (Jesus) down from the tree." (Acts 13:29, King James Bible; "tree", Greek xylon) The apostle Peter wrote: "Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree."(1 Peter 2:24, King James Bible; "tree", Greek xylon) Hence, Jesus died upon a "tree" or "pale", a "stake", not cross.
The Hebrews had no word for the traditional cross. To designate such an implement, they used “warp and woof,” alluding to yarns running lengthwise in a fabric and others going across it on a loom.(Lev 13:56-59) The French Dictionnaire Encyclopédique Universel (Encyclopedic Universal Dictionary) says: “For a long time we believed that the cross, considered a religious symbol, was specifically for Christians. This is not the case.”

The book Dual Heritage—The Bible and the British Museum (1986) states: “It may come as a shock to know that there is no word such as ‘cross’ in the Greek of the New Testament. The word translated ‘cross’ is always the Greek word [stau·ros´] meaning a ‘stake’ or ‘upright pale.’ The cross was not originally a Christian symbol; it is derived from Egypt and Constantine.”
he New Strong's Concise Concordance & Vine's Concise Dictionary of the Bible states that the meaning of "stauros (Strong's # 4716) denotes, primarily , "an upright pale or stake." On such malefactors were nailed for execution. Both the noun and the verb stauroo, "to fasten to a stake or pale," are originally to be distinguished from the ecclesiastical form of a two beamed "cross." The shape of the latter had its origin in ancient Chaldea, and was used as the symbol of the god Tammuz (being in the shape of the mystic Tau, the initial of his name) in that country and in adjacent lands, including Egypt. By the middle of the 3rd cent. A.D. the churches had either departed from, or had travestied, certain doctrines of the Christian faith. In order to increase the prestige of the apostate ecclesiastical system pagans were received into the churches apart from regeneration by faith, and were permitted largely to retain their pagan signs and symbols. Hence the Tau or T, in its most frequent form, with the cross-piece lowered, was adopted to stand for the "cross" of Christ."(Vine's Concise Dictionary of the Bible, pg 75, 1999 edition)
Total JW nonsense. I have the new 2001 Strong's and none of this is in it. The pagan deity "Tammuz" was a Sumerian deity whose name was actually Dumuzi and it was written in Sumerian hieroglyphics which had no alphabet and certainly no letter "Tau" mystic or otherwise. The letter Tau is found only in the Hebrew alphabet and it is never called mystic. The only place Dumuzi is written as Tammuz is in Ezekiel 8:14 and only one time.

Under the Hebrew word ‛ets´ (Strong's # 6086), Vine's Concise Dictionary of the Bible says "tree; wood; timber; stick; stalk." It goes on to say that "this word may signify a single "tree," as it does in Gen. 2:9; or a genus of tree, Isa. 41:19. ‛ets´ can mean "wood as a material from which things are constructed, as a raw material to be carved, Exod. 31:5. Large unprocessed pieces of "wood or timber" are also signified by ‛ets´, Hag 1:8. The end product of wood already processed and fashioned into something may be indicated by ‛ets´, Lev 11:32. This word means "stick" or "piece of wood" in Ezek. 37:16...‛ets´ one time means "stalk," Josh. 2:6."(pg 387)

And under the Greek word xylon (Strong's # 3586), Vine's Concise Dictionary of the Bible says "wood, a piece of wood, anything made of wood," is used, with the rendering "tree,"....the tree being the stauros, the upright pale or stake to which Romans nailed those who were thus to be executed, Acts 5:30; 10:39; 13:29; 1 Pet 2:24."(pg 387-88)
Thus, whether it be ‛ets´, xylon, or stauros, the meaning was the same, that of a "tree", "timber", "wood", "stick", or "upright pale or stake" and not a cross.
 
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SkyWriting

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The words for 'crucify' or 'cross' aren't found in the renewed covenant manuscripts, however the words used are 'stauros' and 'stauroo'. Stauros the noun refers to an 'up-right pole or stake' while Stauroo is the verb means to 'fasten to a stake or pole'. The idea of a cross originally isn't found, it was clearly a later rendering since they already had a word for cross, 'crux'.

An 'up-right pole' is so much more significant! Yahshua was our volunteered upright passover lame.

It is unimaginable the agonising pain He must have went through being falsely accused by religious leaders and to have nails through your hands, the very same people He created to have a loving relationship with.

Anyway, I won't go into detail because I think everyone should do their own research, but everything I've looked at points to the cross as originating from the son of Ba'al, not the Son of God. I don't know how I won't cry the next time I see people kneel down and worship the giant cross in the corner of my church as they often do.


Some sources I recommend: (can't un-embed youtube links :()

Origin Of The Cross - Stauros, Stauroo - Sign, Symbol, Emblem, Christian, Pagan, Crux

Yada Yahweh - Book II-Called-Out Assemblies -- Chapter 5-Bikuwrym


A number of testimonies say He did die. Up-right pole is correct. A cross is a possibility.
 
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Radagast

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The words for 'crucify' or 'cross' aren't found in the renewed covenant manuscripts, however the words used are 'stauros' and 'stauroo'. Stauros the noun refers to an 'up-right pole or stake' while Stauroo is the verb means to 'fasten to a stake or pole'.

This is what Jehovah's Witnesses like to say, but it is simply not true. We have pictures and descriptions of a stauros, and it is a cross.

For example, Justin Martyr tells us that the shape of a cross looks like a man with outstretched hands. We have pictures of crosses from the 2nd and 3rd centuries.

greek-cross-catacombs.gif


it was clearly a later rendering since they already had a word for cross, 'crux'.

"Crux" is not a Greek word, so no.

Anyway, I won't go into detail because I think everyone should do their own research, but everything I've looked at points to the cross as originating from the son of Ba'al

Anti-Christian garbage!
 
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http://www.leaderu.com/theology/burialcave.html
Archeological evidence of a 1st Century Jerusalem crucifixion.
"Werner Keller, in his book The Bible as History, records what they discovered: It was noticed with feelings of horror that his feet were separated from the smashed skeleton and were lying one on top of the other and joined together by a rusty nail WHICH HAD BEEN DRIVEN THROUGH BOTH FEET. Fragments of wood, the remains of a wooden slab, were attached to it. Behind Johanan's feet, the nail was bent obviously by having been driven into harder material. JOHANAN'S FOREARMS ALSO SHOWED SIGNS OF HAVING HAD NAILS [PLURAL] DRIVEN THROUGH THEM. In the course of Johanan's death struggles, his skin had suffered abrasions on the nails [plural]."
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/jesus/crucifixion.html http://www.centuryone.com/crucifixion2.html
Some argue that the word "cross" didn't appear in the Bible until the time of Jerome, at the end of the third century. "If the NT writers had meant "cross" why didn't they write "cross" instead of Stauros?" The fact is the NT writers did write "cross"! They wrote the Greek word stauros which the entire Greek speaking world, then and now, immediately understood to mean "cross", in reference to an instrument of execution.
See the writings of the first and second century early church Bishops and leaders, below, all written 100+ years before Jerome or Constantine. They certainly wrote stauros in Greek. They also described what they meant by stauros, i.e. as a man standing with his arms outstretched in prayer. The mast and cross arms of a ship. A bird in flight. Having five extemities. The ancient Hebrew letter taw/tav, which was written as X or +. The Greek letter Tau and the Latin T. A stake with a tranverse beam. And even the crossed spits used to roast the passover lamb.
Not only was stauros understood as "cross" to the Greek speaking believers. In the early Jewish writings, of the 1st century, stauros was all too well known, and understood as "cross". See early Talmudic and Mishnaic writings cited in, "The Jewish Encyclopedia", 1901, below.

The Roman philosopher Seneca, 4 BC- 65AD.
"At the time of Christ, however, there were THREE BASIC MODES of crucifixion referred to by the Roman philosopher Seneca: "I see," he says, "THREE CROSSES, not indeed of one sort, but fashioned in different ways; one sort suspending by the head persons bent toward the earth, others transfixing them through their secret parts [crux simplex], others extending their arms on a PATIBULUM (crux composita)." (Consol. ad Marciam, XX).
Early Church Bishops and Leaders
The Epistle of Barnabas, found appended to the Codex Sinaiticus, indicates this type of crucifixion! The Epistle of Barnabas has been dated to the reign of Vespasian (70-79 A.D.)
Notice chapter 12:
Again, when Israel is made war upon by foreigners [Amalekites], He [God] speaks to Moses; and in order to warn them [the Israelites], by means of this very war, that they had been delivered over because of their sins, the Spirit suggests to Moses that he should make a TYPE OF THE CROSS and of Him who was to suffer. He thus intimates that, unless they hope in Him, they will forever be subject to war. Moses, therefore, placed shield upon shield where the fray was thick; and then, standing where he towered above all the rest, he EXTENDED HIS ARMS. The result was that Israel was again victorious; then, when he lowered them [his arms], the men were again cut down. Why? They were to understand that they could not be saved unless they put their trust in Him. -- Ancient Christian Writers: The Works of the Fathers in Translation, edited by Quasten and Plumpe. Verses 2-3.
Cyprian, [a.d. 200-258.] Bishop of Carthage (a.d. 248), which he held until his martyrdom (a.d. 258).
Treatise XII.1 Three Books of Testimonies Against the Jews.
By this sign of the cross also Amalek was conquered by Jesus through Moses. In Exodus Moses said to Jesus: "Choose thee out men, and go forth, and order yourselves with Amalek until the morrow. Behold, I will stand on the top of the hill, and the rod of God in mine hand. And it came to pass, when Moses lifted up his hands, Israel prevailed; but when Moses had let down his hands, Amalek waxed strong. But the hands of Moses were heavy; and they took a stone, and placed it under him, and he sat upon it and Aaron and Hur held up his hands, on the one side and on the other side; and the hands of Moses were made steady even to the setting of the sun. And Jesus routed Amalek and all his people. That in this sign of the Cross is salvation for all people who are marked on their foreheads. In Ezekiel the Lord says: "Pass through the midst of Jerusalem, and thou shalt mark the sign Tau upon the men's foreheads, who groan and grieve for the iniquities which are done in the midst of them." Also in the same place: "Go and smite, and do not spare your eyes. Have no pity on the old man, and the youth, and the virgin, and slay little children and women, that they may be utterly destroyed. But ye shall not touch any one upon whom the Tau is written, and begin with my holy places themselves."
http://ccel.wheaton.edu/fathers2/ANF-05/anf05-122.htm#P7907_2659601
St. Justin Martyr, Christian apologist, born at Flavia Neapolis, about A.D. 100, converted to Christianity about A.D. 130, taught and defended the Christian religion in Asia Minor and at Rome, where he suffered martyrdom about the year 165.
Dialogue of Justin
Chapter LXXXVI.-There are Various Figures in the Old Testament of the Wood of the Cross by Which Christ Reigned.
Chapter LXXXIX.-The Cross Alone is Offensive to Trypho on Account of the Curse, Yet It Proves that Jesus is Christ.
Chapter XC.-The Stretched-Out Hands of Moses Signified Beforehand the Cross.
Chapter XCI.-The Cross Was Foretold in the Blessings of Joseph, and in the Serpent that Was Lifted Up.
Chapter XCVII.-Other Predictions of the Cross of Christ.
Chapter CXXXVIII.-Noah is a Figure of Christ, Who Has Regenerated Us by Water, and Faith, and Wood: [I.e., The Cross.]
Chapter XL.-He Returns to the Mosaic Laws, and Proves that They Were Figures of the Things Which Pertain to Christ.
"and that lamb which was commanded to be wholly roasted was a symbol of the suffering of the cross which Christ would undergo. For the lamb,108 which is roasted, is roasted and dressed up in the form of the cross. For one spit is transfixed right through from the lower parts up to the head, and one across the back, to which are attached the legs of the lamb."
http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-02/anf02-69.htm#P9223_2585270
Quintus Septimius Florens Tertullianus was born in Carthage around 155 and died after 220. He was one of the greatest Western theologians and writers of Christian antiquity. Tertullian, Ad Nationes I, CHAP. XII.(10)
"--THE CHARGE OF WORSHIPPING A CROSS. THE HEATHENS THEMSELVES MADE MUCH OF CROSSES IN SACRED THINGS; NAY, THEIR VERY IDOLS WERE FORMED ON A CRUCIAL FRAME.
Every piece of timber(8) which is fixed in the ground in an erect position is a part of a cross, and indeed the greater portion of its mass. But an entire cross is attributed to us, with its transverse beam,(9) of course, and its projecting seat. Because even our own body assumes as its natural position the latent and concealed outline of a cross. Since the head rises upwards, and the back takes a straight direction, and the shoulders project laterally, if you simply place a man with his arms and hands outstretched, you will make the general outline of a cross."
http://ccel.org/fathers/ANF-03/tertullian/part1/ad_nationes_1.html
Tertullian, Against Marcion.
"(8)--TYPES OF THE DEATH OF CHRIST. ISAAC; JOSEPH; JACOB AGAINST SIMEON AND LEVI; MOSES PRAYING AGAINST AMALEK; THE BRAZEN SERPENT.
Again, in the case of Moses, wherefore did he at that moment particularly, when Joshua was fighting Amalek, pray in a sitting posture with outstretched hands, when in such a conflict it would surely have been more seemly to have bent the knee, and smitten the breast, and to have fallen on the face to the ground, and in such prostration to have offered prayer? Wherefore, but because in a battle fought in the name of that Lord who was one day to fight against the devil, the shape was necessary of that very cross through which Jesus was to win the victory?"
http://ccel.org/fathers/ANF-03/tertullian/part2/against_marcion_5.html
Tertullian, Against Marcion, CHAP. XIX.
--PROPHECIES OF THE DEATH OF CHRIST.
"He signed them with that very seal of which Ezekiel spake: "The Lord said unto me, Go through the gate, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set the mark Tau upon the foreheads of the men."(14) Now the Greek letter Tau and our own letter T is the very form of the cross, which He predicted would be the sign on our 341 foreheads in the true universal Jerusalem."
http://ccel.org/fathers/ANF-03/tertullian/part2/against_marcion_3.html
Irenaeus Against Heresies Book 2, St. Ireneaus of Lyons (c.130 A.D.-c.200A.D.). St. Ireneaus is the student of St. Polycarp, who in turn is the student of the apostle John.
"The very form of the cross, too, has five extremities,(7) two in length, two in breadth, and one in the middle, on which [last] the person rests who is fixed by the nails."
http://ccel.wheaton.edu/fathers/ANF-01/iren/iren2.html#Section1
The Octavius of Minucius Felix. 205 AD.
We assuredly see the sign of a cross, naturally, in the ship when it is carried along with swelling sails, when it glides forward with expanded oars; and when the military yoke is lifted up, it is the sign of a cross; and when a man adores God with a pure mind, with hands outstretched. Thus the sign of the cross either is sustained by a natural reason, or your own religion is formed with respect to it.
http://ccel.wheaton.edu/fathers2/ANF-04/anf04-34.html
Ignatius letter to the Trallians. Ignatius of Antioch (born ? -- died (apparently martyred) ~110 CE in Rome) student of John
11:1 Shun ye therefore those vile offshoots that gender a deadly fruit, whereof if a man taste, forthwith he dieth. 11:2 For these men are not the Father's planting for if they had been, they would have been seen to be branches of the Cross, and their fruit imperishable-the Cross whereby He through His passion inviteth us, being His members.
http://wesley.nnc.edu/noncanon/fathers/ante-nic/ignatius/igtral.htm
Archeological evidence of crosses in 1st Century Jerusalem tombs.
Many falsely argue that the cross did not appear in Christian art or use until the time of Constantine. Evidently the early believers didn't read Hislop (TTB), Russell (JW), or Armstrong (WWCG), for at this site, "The Jerusalem Christian Review", are more than eight articles describing tombs and burial vaults in 1st century Jerusalem, with inscriptions of crosses. In many of the photos the inscriptions are clearly visible. There are also multiple inscriptions with the names Iesous in Greek and Yeshua, in ancient Hebrew. Two of the photos clearly show the name Yeshua. These are the sites; Volume 9, Issues 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 9, and 10 and Volume 10, Issue 2
http://christian.edu/
[continued next post]
 
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[Previous post continued]
A most unusual source which documents that the T or tau cross was the instrument that Romans used in the 1st century to execute those sentenced to death, "The Jewish Encyclopedia."
Jewish Encyclopedia – Crucifixion
The crosses used were of different shapes. Some were in the form of a Τ, others in that of a St Andrews cross, X, while others again were in four parts, . The most common kind consisted of a stake ("palus") firmly embedded in the ground ("crucem figere") before the condemned arrived at the place of execution. (Cicero, "Verr" v.12; Josephus, "B.J." vii, 6, § 4) and a cross-beam ("patibulum") bearing the "titulus" the inscription naming the crime (Matt. xxvii. 37; Luke xxiii. 38; Suetonius, "Cal" 38)* * *

This cruel way of carrying into effect the sentence of death was introduced into Palestine by the Romans. ("Ant." xiii. 14, § 2) and as illegal. But many Jews underwent this extreme penalty (ib. xx. 6, §§ 2; "Vita," § 25; "B.J." ii, 12, § 6, 14, § v. 11, § 1; Philo, ii, 529). * * *
The crucifixion of Jesus was an act of the Roman government. . .But many of the Jews suspected of Messianic ambitions had been nailed to the cross by Rome. The "Messiah" "king of the Jews" was a rebel in the estimation of Rome, and rebels were crucified (Seutonius, "Vespas.", 4; "Claudius," xxv.; Josephus, "Ant." xx. 5, § 1; Acts v. 36, 37) The inscription on the cross of Jesus reveals the crime for which, according to Roman law, Jesus expired. He was a rebel. Tacitus ("Annales," 54, 59) reports therefore without comment the fact that Jesus was crucified."
The Jewish Encyclopedia, KTAV Publishing House, Isodore Singer Ed., 1901, Vol. 4,
CROSS, pp. 368-9
1. The stake; stauros= Tzalob צלוב or tzloba' ( צלובא) used by Romans at crucifixion. This was so familiar to Jews in New Testament times that they spoke frequently of, "men carrying their cross before them while going to be executed"( Gen. R. lvi.; Pesik. R. xxxi., ed. Buber, 143b), as did Jesus (Matt. x. 38, xvi. 24, and parallels; see CRUCIFIXION).

2. A specific Christian symbol; Termed by the Jews, שתי וערב ("warp and woof"); also צלם ("idol"). . .
(Isserles, Shulhan 'Aruk, Yore De'ah, 141, 1; R. Mordecai to 'Ab. Zarah iii. in the name of R. Eleazar b. Jacob of Worms)
The cross as a Christian symbol or "seal" came into use at least as early as the second century (see "Apost. Const." iii. 17; Epistle of Barnabas, xi-xii.; Justin, "Apologia." i. 55-60, "Dial. cum Tryph." 85-97); and marking of a cross upon the forehead and the chest was regarded as a talisman against the power of demons (Tertullian, "De Corona." iii. Cyprian, "Testimonies," xi. 21-22; Lactantius, "Divine Institutiones," iv. 27, and elsewhere). Accordingly the Christian Fathers had to defend themselves as early as the second century, against the charge of being worshippers of the cross, as may be learned from Tertullian, "Apologia," xii., xvii., and Minucius Felix, "Octavius," xxix."
Jewish author and lawyer Haim Cohn
"In cases of crucifixion, however, the scourging was particularly elaborate: the convict was first UNDRESSED, THEN HIS HEAD WAS COVERED, then a forked instrument with two prongs (furca) was placed on his back and his two hands bound to it, each hand to one of the prongs and thus the convict had to drag the furca to the place of crucifixion; once arrived there, he was flagellated while remaining bound to the furca." -- "The Trial and Death of Jesus", Jewish Encyclopedia, KTAV Publishing House, New York. 1977. Pages 376-377.
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=899&letter=C
.....Many argue that the cross has pagan origins. I agree, the cross, as it is known in Christianity, had its origin with the pagan Romans who used it to crucify Jesus. The Romans did not consult history to find out if the ancient Babylonians used a cross symbol. They did not confer with the Sanhedrin to determine if they, the Talmud or Mishnah approved of crucifixion. Nor did they ask Jesus if He objected to being crucified on a cross, for religious reasons, because some ancient civilization may have used a similar symbol. The Romans used the cross because it was the cruelest, most agonizing, degrading method they could devise to kill convicted criminals, publicly as a deterrent to others, in their conquered territories.

The First Apology of Justin, Chapter LX.-Plato's Doctrine of the Cross.
"And the physiological discussion122 concerning the Son of God in the Timoeus of Plato, where he says, "He placed him crosswise 123 in the universe," he borrowed in like manner from Moses; for in the writings of Moses it is related how at that time, when the Israelites went out of Egypt and were in the wilderness, they fell in with poisonous beasts, both vipers and asps, and every kind of serpent, which slew the people; and that Moses, by the inspiration and influence of God, took brass, and made it into the figure of a cross, and set it in the holy tabernacle, and said to the people, "If ye look to this figure, and believe, ye shall be saved thereby."124
http://ccel.wheaton.edu/fathers/ANF-01/just/justinapology1.html#Section41

Tertullian, "On Idolatry"
"Why, then, did Moses in the desert make a likeness of a serpent out of bronze?" The figures, which used to be laid as a groundwork for some secret future dispensation, not with a view to the repeal of the law, but as a type of their own final cause, stand in a class by themselves. Otherwise, if we should interpret these things as the adversaries of the law do, do we, too, as the Marcionites do, ascribe inconsistency to the Almighty, whom they(11) in this manner destroy as being mutable, while in one place He forbids, in another commands? But if any feigns ignorance of the fact that that effigy of the serpent of bronze, after the manner of one uphung, denoted the shape of the Lord's cross,"
http://ccel.wheaton.edu/pager.cgi?f.../part1/de_spectaculis.html&up=fathers/ANF-03/
"Before the time of Emperor Constantine in the 4th century. Christians were extremely reticent about portraying the cross because too open a display of it might expose them to ridicule or danger."
Brittanica, Micropedia, 15th Edition, 1992, Vol. 3. P 753.
HTML1DocumentEncodingutf-8http://www.fossilizedcustoms.com/
stauros, ho, upright pale or stake, staurous ektos elasse diamperes entha kai entha puknous kai thameas Hom. Od. 14.11, cf. Hom. Il. 24.453, Thuc. 4.90, Xen. Anab. 5.2.21; of piles driven in to serve as a foundation, Hdt. 5.16, Thuc. 7.25.
II. cross, as the instrument of crucifixion, D.S.2.18, Ev.Matt.27.40, Plu.2.554a; epi ton s. apagesthai Luc.Peregr.34; s. lambanein, arai, bastazein, metaph. of voluntary suffering, Ev.Matt.10.38, Ev.Luc.9.23, au=Ev.Luc. 14.27: its form was represented by the Greek letter T, Luc.Jud.Voc.12.
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/enggreek http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/resolveform
cross = stavros, diastavrono The dictionary found 1 matching word."
http://www.kypros.org/cgi-bin/lexicon
 
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