2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Nope, James isn't confused. Maybe your understanding of James is.
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What think ye of Ezekiel's Temple?
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2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Nope, James isn't confused. Maybe your understanding of James is.
seventysevens
Well-Known Member
This part you intentionally leave out is part of the very conversation Jesus was having with Peter and James and John and Andrew and Jesus said to them:
Mark 13
26 “At that time people will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. 27 And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.
So if Jesus was referring to the generation of people in that day he had that conversation and you believe that Jesus has returned to destroy the temple ;
then it would also have to be true that the Son of Man had to at the same time he destroyed the temple , he also sent his angels and gathered his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens
If you say that part has not happened , it means Jesus has not returned to destroy the temple
so the elect would also have been gathered together from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens back in 70 AD ,
face it that it is you that has erred , and Jesus did not destroy the temple
And that Power and Glory is seen with the eyes in the heads of all those people on earth who see the Son of Man return
you in over your head
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Why is that astounding? Jesus tells us to test them, one and all. Otherwise, He certainly wouldn't have made an issue of ravening wolves. And Jesus is the final authority on everything.
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Some of us have to rip a few words out of context to make our doctrine work.
Quoting only four words from my post is feeble, to say the least...
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keras
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Jesus came and He declared the New Covenant, but its full implementation awaits our going to live in the holy land. Ezekiel 34:11-31 tells about this and verse 23 mentions the Covenant that the Lord will make with us Christians then.
Do you really believe that Hebrews 8:10-11 are in operation now?
Lets hear your thoughts on that; BaB refuses to answer this.
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Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Notice that the passage begins with the word "now" in Hebrews 8:6.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:(See 1 Corinthians 3:16)
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.(See John 14:26)
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keras
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Jesus was successful in His ministry, He did set up the way to the New Covenant for all those who believe in Him and keep His Commandments.
But this Covenant did not take effect immediately, how could it? It has to wait until the millions that were chosen by Him were born and who chose Him of their own free will.
You have to be in a little world of your own, to believe that Hebrews 8:10-11 are operable now. Are we to not teach our friends and neighbors? Time to come into the realm of reality, BaB and Ebed!
For one thing, the Covenant is directed toward the House of Israel, NOT toward the House of Judah; the Jewish people.
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No. I intentionally left out nothing. I simply make the point that Jesus is talking to them. He has just told them the temple would be destroyed. They then, in Mark 13:3 ask Him when these things would happen.
Indeed it did happen and is still on going. Jesus is speaking of gathering His ELECT through the preaching of the gospel and His angels are His messengers preaching that gospel. The fact that you don't get it is your issue.26 “At that time people will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. 27 And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.
So if Jesus was referring to the generation of people in that day he had that conversation and you believe that Jesus has returned to destroy the temple ;
then it would also have to be true that the Son of Man had to at the same time he destroyed the temple , he also sent his angels and gathered his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens
If you say that part has not happened , it means Jesus has not returned to destroy the temple so the elect would also have been gathered together from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens back in 70 AD ,
I'm in over my head because I don't buy into your system of eschatology and you can't compare the language of scripture????face it that it is you that has erred , and Jesus did not destroy the temple
And that Power and Glory is seen with the eyes in the heads of all those people on earth who see the Son of Man return
you in over your head
Take when the Lord destroyed Egypt prophesied in Isaiah 19:1:
The oracle concerning Egypt. Behold, the Lord is riding on a swift cloud and is about to come to Egypt; The idols of Egypt will tremble at His presence, And the heart of the Egyptians will melt within them.
Anything familiar in the language there?
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Try to get your facts straight.
Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
If you have to ignore "the house of Judah" in the verse above, then it should be obvious that what you are promoting is in error.
It is one of many doctrines of ignorance.
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seventysevens
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Mark 13 is about the same conversation as in Matt 24
Wrong , it is the gathering of people together to one place so the believers are all together in the same location -
Jesus command was to go throughout the world and spread the gospel...the gathering is people that have accepted what they were told about the salvation of Christ
Christ did not say he would send his angels to preach the gospel - angelic messengers do not preach , Jesus called upon his people on earth to spread the gospel , only angels have access to heaven and those in heaven have already accepted the gospel- human beings are not angelic messengers because they are human , not angels - angels are Jesus messengers but are not human and they are not gathering anyone yet and they do not preach -
provide evidence of angels today that have gathered people and be sure to show exactly who those angles are by name,
Bet you would interpret the statement of " I read the newspaper" in a past tense exclusively and not in the present tense , the theology you buy into is all about making assumptions that are not feasible
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Okaaay... there's 3 more.
The phrase "some of us" includes you. Nor is it feeble of me to refuse to quote you quoting yourself.
Here's the thing, BABerean2: I used to promote the doctrine that you wear like a mantle, and I want to help you get over it.
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Who says it wasn't? Also Luke 21
No. You're wrong. You want to assume they are angels. The Greek word is ä'ngelos and it is NOT always God's angels but equally refers to His messengers. Like the apostles, or a pastor, or simply a person preaching the gospel. Just a couple of commentaries on this point:Wrong , it is the gathering of people together to one place so the believers are all together in the same location -
Jesus command was to go throughout the world and spread the gospel...the gathering is people that have accepted what they were told about the salvation of Christ
Christ did not say he would send his angels to preach the gospel - angelic messengers do not preach , Jesus called upon his people on earth to spread the gospel , only angels have access to heaven and those in heaven have already accepted the gospel- human beings are not angelic messengers because they are human , not angels - angels are Jesus messengers but are not human and they are not gathering anyone yet and they do not preach -
provide evidence of angels today that have gathered people and be sure to show exactly who those angles are by name,
Adam Clark - "He shall send his angels - Τους αγγελους, his messengers, the apostles, and their successors in the Christian ministry."
John Gill - And he shall send his angels,.... Not the angels, i.e. ministering spirits, so called, not from their nature, but their office, as being sent forth by God and Christ; but men angels, or messengers, the ministers and preachers of the Gospel, whom Christ would call, qualify, and send forth into all the world of the Gentiles, to preach his Gospel, and plant churches there still more, when that at Jerusalem was broken up and dissolved. These are called "angels", because of their mission, and commission from Christ, to preach the Gospel; and because of their knowledge and understanding in spiritual things; and because of their zeal, diligence, and watchfulness,
I will grant that people/commentaries differ on this point. However God's work is done by His Angels who are not human, assisting His messengers, who are human. There are many examples of that in scripture. Either way, His people are being gathered to salvation from one end of heaven to the other.
Jesus made this clear to the disciples in John 4:36-38:
36 Already he who reaps is receiving wages and is gathering fruit for life eternal; so that he who sows and he who reaps may rejoice together.
37 For in this case the saying is true, ‘One sows and another reaps.’
38 I sent you to reap that for which you have not labored; others have labored and you have entered into their labor.”
To reap is to gather...as was done at Penetecost after Peter preached! Also NOTHING says they're gathered in one place it says "And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. It's the gospel call to the world!
The main point is the gospel call will gather His ELECT...so those who are ELECT will come from all nations to Christ...and when Christ appears the second time there's no need for angels. Jesus said it this way in John 5:28-29
28 Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.
The call of Christ to judgment will not require angels...just His voice.
Yet...if I said "I read THIS newspaper" the newspaper would be an object that I can point to. However, more to the point Jesus set the stage for this conversation in Matthew 23:37-38 so once again to deny the temple destruction is in mind, is simply as futile as it is to deny Jesus destroyed the temple in 70 AD.Bet you would interpret the statement of " I read the newspaper" in a past tense exclusively and not in the present tense , the theology you buy into is all about making assumptions that are not feasible
Again...Jesus opened the conversation saying at Matthew 24:1-2:
Jesus came out from the temple and was going away when His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings to Him.
2 And He said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.”
Jesus said it...yet you want to deny He did it.
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You can put in the work...but a good start is Romans 9, where Paul interprets prophesies of Hosea and Isaiah. Not to mention Jesus quoting the prophets!
The consider what Paul said of himself at Ephesians 3:1-13.
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No sir. The New Covenant is fully implemented...and I humbly believe it ends when Christ returns because no one else can be saved. The New Covenant is SALVATION THRU CHRIST. Jesus instituted it at Matthew 26:26-29, Mark 14:22-25, and Luke 22:14-23.
Then take a look at 1 Corinthians 11:23-26
Of course it's in operation now...to make it simple every saved person is affected by this because they receive the Holy Spirit, who seals them to God!!!!
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Keras,
1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
The "reality" of God's Word is found above, for those who are in the New Covenant found in Hebrews 8:6-13.
Will you ignore this verse an an effort to make your doctrine work, or will you change your doctrine to make it comply with the verse above?
Are you teachable by the Holy Spirit inspired words found above?
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Are you saying you once had an understanding of the New Covenant, which is found below?
The New Covenant: Bob George
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QUOTE="ebedmelech, post: 72880688, member: 311061"]
saints have to understand the OT prophets correctly as Paul did
[/QUOTE
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QUOTE="gomerian, post: 72881015, member: 409281"]
Seriously? Book, Chapter, and Verse, please.
[/QUOTE
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QUOTE="ebedmelech, post: 72883640, member: 311061"]
Romans 9, where Paul interprets prophesies of Hosea and Isaiah.
Not to mention Jesus quoting the prophets!
The consider what Paul said of himself at Ephesians 3:1-13.
[/QUOTE
============
Then what do you do with Hosea 2:11-13 thru Hosea 2:14-16 thru Hosea 2:16-17 ? And what on earth happens to Isaiah 11:12-13 ?
Those prophecies cannot be spiritualized away, they are literal Judah/Israel. You need to reconcile what he says with what the Prophets said before him, not the other way around. Please reconcile those verses without changing what the verses literally mean. I'm still trying to make sense of that first thing you said, above.
How did Jesus quoting the prophets enter the discussion ? Jesus is both proven prophet and God, and even He says John 5:31-32. Circular reasoning doesn't work any better than self-promotion or ripping verses out of context.
saints have to understand the OT prophets correctly as Paul did
[/QUOTE
============
QUOTE="gomerian, post: 72881015, member: 409281"]
Seriously? Book, Chapter, and Verse, please.
[/QUOTE
============
QUOTE="ebedmelech, post: 72883640, member: 311061"]
Romans 9, where Paul interprets prophesies of Hosea and Isaiah.
Not to mention Jesus quoting the prophets!
The consider what Paul said of himself at Ephesians 3:1-13.
[/QUOTE
============
Then what do you do with Hosea 2:11-13 thru Hosea 2:14-16 thru Hosea 2:16-17 ? And what on earth happens to Isaiah 11:12-13 ?
Those prophecies cannot be spiritualized away, they are literal Judah/Israel. You need to reconcile what he says with what the Prophets said before him, not the other way around. Please reconcile those verses without changing what the verses literally mean. I'm still trying to make sense of that first thing you said, above.
How did Jesus quoting the prophets enter the discussion ? Jesus is both proven prophet and God, and even He says John 5:31-32. Circular reasoning doesn't work any better than self-promotion or ripping verses out of context.
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Then I started reading what Jesus said. Now, I follow the Way, the Truth, and the Life. (pretty cool icon, right... an icon that's not an image)
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Jer_31:31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Mat_26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
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