Status
Not open for further replies.

Red Sky at Morning

Active Member
Supporter
Oct 7, 2017
69
16
51
Crewe
✟91,805.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
If He did He didn't fulfill the Law when He put His mother in the care of someone who was not of her blood.

Ok...

What are we to make of the following facts then?

"Jesus' brothers and sisters. The Gospel of Mark 6:3 and the Gospel of Matthew 13:55–56 state that James, Joses (or Joseph), Jude and Simon were the brothers of Jesus, the son of Mary. The same verses also mention unnamed sisters of Jesus."
 
  • Like
Reactions: amariselle
Upvote 0

Eloy Craft

Myth only points, Truth happened!
Supporter
Jan 9, 2018
3,132
871
Chandler
✟386,808.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Ok...

What are we to make of the following facts then?

"Jesus' brothers and sisters. The Gospel of Mark 6:3 and the Gospel of Matthew 13:55–56 state that James, Joses (or Joseph), Jude and Simon were the brothers of Jesus, the son of Mary. The same verses also mention unnamed sisters of Jesus."
What are facts here? The word for brother's was not restricted to direct siblings.
 
Upvote 0

Galilee63

Newbie
Dec 14, 2013
2,045
329
Australia
✟43,924.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Mary's Song
(1 Samuel 2:1-11)

46Then Mary said:

“My soul magnifies the Lord,

47and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior!

48For He has looked with favor on the humble state of His servant.

From now on all generations will call me blessed.

49For the Mighty One has done great things for me.

Holy is His name.

50His mercy extends to those who fear Him,

from generation to generation.

51He has performed mighty deeds with His arm;

He has scattered those who are proud in the thoughts of their hearts.

52He has brought down rulers from their thrones,

but has exalted the humble.

53He has filled the hungry with good things,

but has sent the rich away empty.

54He has helped His servant Israel,

remembering to be merciful,

55as He promised to our fathers,

to Abraham and his descendants forever.”


56Mary stayed with Elizabeth for about three months and then returned home.

The Birth of John the Baptist

57When the time came for Elizabeth to have her child, she gave birth to a son. 58Her neighbors and relatives heard that the Lord had shown her great mercy, and they rejoiced with her.

59On the eighth day, when they came to circumcise the child, they were going to name him after his father Zechariah. 60But his mother replied, “No! He shall be called John.”

61They said to her, “There is no one among your relatives who bears this name.” 62So they made signs to his father to inquire what he wanted to name the child.

63Zechariah asked for a tablet and wrote, “His name is John.” And they were all astonished. 64Immediately Zechariah’s mouth was opened and his tongue was released, and he began to speak, praising God.

65All their neighbors were filled with awe, and people throughout the hill country of Judea were talking about these events. 66And all who heard this wondered in their hearts and asked, “What then will this child become?” For the Lord’s hand was with him.

Zechariah's Song

67Then his father Zechariah was filled with the Holy Spirit and prophesied:

68“Blessed be the Lord, the God of Israel,

because He has visited and redeemed His people.

69He has raised up a horn of salvation for us

in the house of His servant David,

70as He spoke through His holy prophets,

those of ages past,

71salvation from our enemies

and from the hand of all who hate us,

72to show mercy to our fathers

and to remember His holy covenant,

73the oath He swore to our father Abraham,

to grant us 74deliverance from hostile hands,

that we may serve Him without fear,

75in holiness and righteousness before Him

all the days of our lives.

76And you, child, will be called a prophet of the Most High;

for you will go on before the Lord to prepare His ways,

77to give to His people knowledge of salvation

through the forgiveness of their sins,

78because of the tender mercy of our God,

by which the Dawn will visit us from on high,

79to shine on those who live in darkness

and in the shadow of death,

to guide our feet into the path of peace.”

80And the child grew and became strong in spirit;c and he lived in the wilderness until the time of his public appearance to Israel.

The Battering of The Ram - The Most Holy Rosary Gifted by God The Most High to our Most Holy Blessed Virgin Mother Mary - from Jesus Christ our Holy Divine King to Holy Saint Dominic in 1214 and in 1216 admonishing His Priests in His Love and Mercy - to preach The Holy Rosary with Gods Holy Divine Word

"It is mans last mean/s of Salvation" and
"The greatest weapon against satan".

Jesus Christ and Holy Spirit and Holy Mother Mary squash satan at every turn in our Lords Holy Divine Mercy and always through The Most Holy Rosary prayed fervently and from our hearts. Delivered through our Lords Holy Divine heavenly Catholic Church and that people is the reason satan has been attacking and trying to destroy Gods Holy Divine Catholic Church for centuries - because it is through our Lord Jesus and Holy Spirit in His Blessed Holy Divine Sacraments of Holy Baptism, Holy Confession, Holy Reconciliation and in His Holy Communion that souls are saved and or have the hope in our Lord Jesus Christ to receive His Mercy now and at the hour of death His Mercy where Jesus as He says stands between The Just Hand of My Father and the dying. And satan and his evil spirits know this trying to claim souls of whom have not received our Lord Jesus Himself in His Blessed Holy Divine Heavenly Sacraments where Jesus and Holy Mother Mary are Present at the Altars, our Lord Jesus in His Blessed Holy Divine Sacrament physically and Spiritually and Present in His Holy Divine Tabernacles just as God The Most High Present in His Holy Temple hidden behind The Holy of Holies as God our Heavenly Father said to Moses, to Ezra, to Holy Saint Aaron.

Mary is the Mother of God

Luke 1:43:And why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

A deep relationship with God The Most High and Holy Spirit -more profound than any of us could ever discern

Luke 1:47: and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,

Most Blessed Woman of all time

Luke 1:48: for he has regarded the low estate of his handmaiden. For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed;

What God has done for Most Holy Mother Mary

Luke 1:49: for he who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is his name.

Holy Mother Marys Sufferings in part

Luke 2:34-35:and Simeon blessed them and said to Mary his mother, "Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising of many in Israel, and for a sign that is spoken against (and a sword will pierce through your own soul also), that thoughts out of many hearts may be revealed."

Mary is our Mother

John 19:26-27: When Jesus saw his mother, and the disciple whom he loved standing near, he said to his mother, "Woman, behold, your son!" Then he said to the disciple, "Behold, your mother!" And from that hour the disciple took her to his own home.

Revelation 12:17:Then the dragon was angry with the woman, and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and bear testimony to Jesus. And he stood on the sand of the sea.

Mary and Jesus are united as one (as are all of the saints in heaven)

1 Corinthians 6:17: But he who is united to the Lord becomes one spirit with him.

Mary, the New Testament Ark of the Covenant

Revelation 11:19-12:1:Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple; and there were flashes of lightning, voices, peals of thunder, an earthquake, and heavy hail.And a great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars;


Mary's body is in heaven

Revelation 12:1:And a great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars;

Mary is Queen of Heaven

Revelation 12:1:And a great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars;

The Twelve Holy Divine Stars - Holy Mother Mary is Holy Divine Mother over all of our Lord Jesus Christ and Gods and Her Disciples/Priests/ for eternity.

Still at enmity with Satan

Revelation 12:17:Then the dragon was angry with the woman, and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and bear testimony to Jesus. And he stood on the sand of the sea.

Invisible to many, visible to a few.

Trust in our Lord Jesus Christ and take His Holy Word, receive His Holy Word from our Blessed Holy Trinity Himself literally not just symbolically and ask our Lord Jesus, Holy Spirit about His Most Holy Divine Blessed Daughter and Holy Divine Mother of God yourselves instead of writing about Holy Mother Mary in negative ways.

The Life of the Blessed Virgin Mary


Anne Catherine Emmerich
 
Upvote 0

amariselle

Jesus Never Fails
Sep 28, 2004
6,648
4,194
The Great Northern Wilderness
✟60,500.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
You habitually create straw man arguments. I believe it is the same body that was Him during His earthly life. You said it wasn't. I think Paul said and I paraphrase; This tent must put on incorruption" Not another tent but 'this' tent.

And yet, His body has changed. That is my point. He is no longer in a mortal body. Our bodies will also be changed.
 
Upvote 0

Galilee63

Newbie
Dec 14, 2013
2,045
329
Australia
✟43,924.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Hearts/Souls will discover passing over wanting/needing our Most Holy Blessed Virgin Mother Marys' Loving Holy Intercession and then...realise in God The Most Highs our Holy Divine Majesty's Spirit of Truth its too late because things of which were disrespectful, negative and callous in cold hearts were spoken about our Holy Divine Queen of Heaven and Holy Divine Queen of Earth and Holy Divine Queen of Gods Disciples, Apostles, Holy Angels, Holy Saints, Holy Martyrs, Holy Souls in Heaven here on earth.

Then the Soul awaits our Lord Jesus Christs Judgement in His Mercy where our unfathomable Divine Mercy stands between The Just Hand of My Father, our Lord Jesus says to His Holy Catholic Saints now in Heaven, and the dying, while our Souls are judged in Gods Spirit of Truth with every sin revealed and every sin accountable.

Trust in our Lord Jesus Christ and ask our Lord Jesus Christ yourselves in your own relationships with Jesus how Jesus feels about His Most Holy Divine Blessed Mother receiving degradations and insults and leading hearts away from Him by leading hearts astray away from Holy Mother Mary to intercede, to convert hearts Souls bringing them to our Lord Jesus Christ for conversions, for repentance of sins made to Jesus with Holy Spirit in Holy Spirit, for healing leading to Salvation. How can one expect to have and hold a deep loving relationship with our Lord Jesus Christ when one is degrading The Holy Divine Mother of God our Holy Divine real Mother and sending hearts away from Most Holy Mother Mary and in turn away from our Lord Jesus Christ, from God our Heavenly Father. How do you feel that God The Most High our Heavenly Father will react to you and your lives by doing these things?

What do Christians feel in their hearts when someone is doubting the role of their own Mother/Parent here on earth and making comments in disrespect, now feel for our Lord Jesus Christ Whom died on the Cross for you all with His Most Holy Divine Mother/Holy Divine Woman/Our Most Holy Blessed Virgin Mother Mary sharing in His Bitter Passion, in our Lord Jesus Christs Sorrows, Sufferings, Agonies, Torments, Tortures most of all with the Piercing of Her Heart that God our Heavenly Father in His Holy Divine Profound Love knew from the very beginning choosing Holy Mother Mary His Divine Loving Holy Immaculate Daughter from the very beginning to suffer and share with our Lord Jesus Christ to the very end His Bitter Passion.

Whom do you feel in your hearts and Souls in your own relationships with our Lord Jesus Christ intercedes with our Lord Jesus Christ for your own souls and benefit? Whom do you feel in your hearts and Souls in your own relationships with our Lord Jesus Christ Beseeches for your Souls now and eternally? Whom has appeared with our Lord Jesus Christ to thousands of Gods Holy Saints Nuns/Sisters/Popes/Priests/Religious for centuries and delivered His Holy Word, His Holy Divine Prayers - God The Most Highs Holy Divine Prayers - with and in God Himself in Holy Spirit for centuries without the internet, without Saints knowing one another, all Saints mentioned in Gods Holy Word. These Holy Divine Appearances in Holy Writings are within the Vatican walls as I post. Many not released to the public - many in recent years being released to the public - and through the Catholic Convents and Chapels discovered and then approved by Gods Holy Roman Catholic Church the original and oldest through and by our Lord Jesus Christ Holy Spirit through Holy Saint Peter of Whom our Lord Jesus said

"You are Peter and on this Rock I Build My Church"

"The sins loosed on earth are the sins loosed in Heaven" and

"The sins forgiven on earth are the sins forgiven in Heaven"

- Our Lord Jesus Present in His Holy Confession in our Lord Jesus Christ through His Holy Catholic Roman Church

"Whosoever eats My Flesh and drinks My Blood has Life in them" and

"Whosoever does not eat My Flesh and Drink My Blood has no Life in them".

- Our Lord Jesus in His Holy Communion of which Jesus says contains His Holy Divine Blessings, Holy Gifts and Holy Graces through His Holy Roman Catholic Church

How do you feel in your hearts that makes our Lord Jesus Christ feel towards those whom degrade and or insult Gods Most Holy Divine Favoured One?

Our Most Holy Divine Queen of our Lord Jesus Christs and Holy Mother Marys Holy Catholic Church.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

JudyH

Newbie
Supporter
May 6, 2009
87
46
Maryland, U.S.
✟25,213.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
No, any one who does the Will of God- as Mary did better than all of us, especially myself- is Jesus' mother, and brother, and sister. And who are we to say that we who are Jesus' mother, or brother, or sister aren't thus related to each other in this self-same way?

Yes, yes, yes! Bravo! Mary is the Mother of the Church. Of ALL of us.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TuxAme
Upvote 0

JudyH

Newbie
Supporter
May 6, 2009
87
46
Maryland, U.S.
✟25,213.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
I cannot seem to get past catholicism. It seems strange to me.

Keep in mind that the Catholic church is very ancient. In fact, all other Christian religions spring from the same root. But the Catholic church, especially, has kept many of its archaic practices and expressions. It's really good to delve into the whys of Catholic doctrine, to understand where they came from in the first place. One thing I love about Catholicism is its deep, meaningful history, its honoring of great theologians, saints, and "fathers of the church" who have contributed so much to Catholic doctrine over the centuries. Not to be insulting, but some of the more recent Protestant religions seem a bit, er, shallow to me. My husband calls them "Catholicism Lite." :)
 
  • Informative
Reactions: TuxAme
Upvote 0

Red Sky at Morning

Active Member
Supporter
Oct 7, 2017
69
16
51
Crewe
✟91,805.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Keep in mind that the Catholic church is very ancient. In fact, all other Christian religions spring from the same root. But the Catholic church, especially, has kept many of its archaic practices and expressions. It's really good to delve into the whys of Catholic doctrine, to understand where they came from in the first place. One thing I love about Catholicism is its deep, meaningful history, its honoring of great theologians, saints, and "fathers of the church" who have contributed so much to Catholic doctrine over the centuries. Not to be insulting, but some of the more recent Protestant religions seem a bit, er, shallow to me. My husband calls them "Catholicism Lite." :)

One could almost be forgiven for thinking Catholicism was older than the Bible...

I go back to scripture for my understanding and bypass where I find disagreement the accumulated "Church Fathers" and pronouncements of "Infallible (ex Cathedra of course) popes.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: amariselle
Upvote 0

Kenny'sID

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Feb 28, 2016
18,185
7,001
69
USA
✟585,304.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Kenny, God ordered carved images in the OT. The Cheribum above the Ark of the covenant comes to mind. So what God is commanding is images that would be served as a replacement of Himself.

But the scripture didn't say that, you did.

The carved images you mention he ordered was an order, and is actually irrelevant here. It's like saying, for example... God ordered an attack on a certain people so that means we all can attack people as we please. But still, it was not something they were "making unto" themselves to bow to, it was something god ordered for the Ark.

The script states clearly not to bow to it "or" worship, so simply bowing to it is forbidden. Let's look at it again.

4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

None, or not any graven image, no likeness (graven or otherwise) of anything, anywhere. Whoever wrote that would have made an excellent contract lawyer :) they covered absolutely every base in those few words.

5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them:

Those are two separate things, either or, so even if one does claim not to be worshiping, it also covers the fact no one should even bow down to it. It appears God saw the claim of "not really worshiping" coming ahead of time. JMO, but maybe thast's because even if some aren't worshiping her image, it most certainly appears they are, ending in others doing just that., preventing any misunderstanding.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: amariselle
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Kenny'sID

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Feb 28, 2016
18,185
7,001
69
USA
✟585,304.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
You can deny the obvious if you want but that woman is the Word of God's Mother.

You changed it. and from my end it appears you are in denial god was around long before Mary so she could not possibly be the mother of God.

Tell you what, this can't possibly end in an agreement, I only wanted the info I have presented to be heard. I know there is no defense for these things and that some will never accept that, but at the same time I realize those things are so tightly rooted it's nearly impossible to undo them. So hopefully we can just leave it with, we are both immovable on the issue/agree to disagree.
 
Upvote 0

JudyH

Newbie
Supporter
May 6, 2009
87
46
Maryland, U.S.
✟25,213.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
DOCTRINES AND TRADITIONS OF MEN

Below follows a list of some of the extrascriptural doctrines, showing by how many years they are beyond scripture.

1. 394 A.D. - The daily mass.
2. 593 A.D. - The doctrine of purgatory.
3. 600 A.D. - Praying to Mary, Virgin Queen of Heaven.
4. 606 A.D. - Pope (Boniface III).
5. 709 A.D. - Kissing the Pope's foot.
6. 750 A.D. - Temporal power of the Pope inaugurated
7. 788 A.D. - Worship of the cross of Christ, images, & relics.
8. 850 A.D. - Introduction of Holy Water, blessed by a priest.
9. 890 A.D. - Veneration of Saint Joseph.
10. 995 A.D. - Process of Canonization of dead saints.
11. 998 A.D. - Feasts of Lent and Good Friday.
12. 1050 A.D. - Holy Mass declared to be re-enactment of the sacrifice of Christ.
13. 1079 A.D. - Celibacy of priests and nuns.
14. 1090 A.D. - Introduction of the rosary.
15. 1190 A.D. - Selling of Indulgences to shorten stay in Purgatory.
16. 1215 A.D. - Doctrine of transubstantiation inaugurated.
17. 1215 A.D. - Auricular Confession.
18. 1229 A.D. - Scripture interpretation reserved only to Clergy.
19. 1287 A.D. - Novena Scapular declared to be a charm against danger.
20. 1414 A.D. Communion limited to bread wafer.
21. 1439 A.D. - Inauguration of Seven sacraments.
22. 1545 A.D. - Tradition established as co-equal with scriptural authority.
23. 1546 A.D. - Apocryphal literature incorporated into scripture.
24. 1854 A.D. - Doctrine of the Immaculate conception of Mary.
25. 1870 A.D. - Doctrine of Papal Infallibility.
28. Mary declared to be the Mother of God, 1931 A.D.
29. Assumption (translation) of the Virgin Mary, 1950 A.D.

That's very interesting, thank you. What is your authority?
 
Upvote 0

Hermit76

You can call me Paisios
Supporter
Jun 5, 2015
1,740
2,184
✟291,852.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
This thread was bait for Catholics and Orthodox. I'm a former Protestant pastor and I used to have the same approach.
That changed through experience and proper teaching.
These folk just want to argue to make themselves feel better. They think they do God a service by antagonizing you. This will not end well and it frankly is disturbing to read the way they are casting down our Mother.
In the end they are choosing to reject the church.
I've accepted that my Protestant past was virtually a different religion. If you choose to discuss the Blessed Theotokos with them, keep this in mind.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: FenderTL5
Upvote 0

JudyH

Newbie
Supporter
May 6, 2009
87
46
Maryland, U.S.
✟25,213.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Please point out where in Scripture we are told that Mary was "the New Eve."

...

Where in Scripture are we taught to "look up to her as a model for all Christians"?

...

She deserves every bit of honour and distinction Scripture gives her, and not a bit more.

...

Why did "Our Lady of Fatima" promise salvation to all those devoted to her "Immaculate Heart"?

...

Since we are to "test" all things, where are we told in Scripture that Mary can "intervene in the affairs of humankind in unique and marvelous ways"?

Again, where is this written? Scripture tells us Christ alone is our Intercessor and Mediator.

...

There is a huge difference between asking those who are still living to pray for us and praying to those who are physically dead and no longer with us here on earth. Scripture forbids contact with those who have left this earthly life.

...

Why? And faith in whom? Why is praying to God not enough? We are told in Scripture that because of Christ (the veil has been torn) we can now come "boldly before the throne of grace". Christ "everlives" to make intercession for us. We have no need of any other mediator.

...

There are, I am sure, various interpretations of that verse. In any case, there is still nothing written there that would lead anyone to believe that statues, icons, images or shrines should be built to her or that people should bow down and kneel before such things to pray to her. And there is much in Scripture that is more than clear that such things are forbidden and are not pleasing to God.

...

Thank you for taking the time to write this. I also hope you (and others) can understand that not all objections are ill informed, "arrogant", "simpleminded" or ignorant. Many do actually know what they are objecting to and why.

God bless.

Amariselle: Most of your arguments revolve around the question of where in Scripture a particular idea is. This needs a whole different thread, but Catholics do not believe that revelation is limited to the Bible. The question is whether God is still revealing His truth to His people or whether that stopped after the Bible as we know it was assembled.

John said, "And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books that would be written." (John 21:25) And Jesus told the disciples that the Holy Spirit would guide them into all truth and show them things to come. Why should we believe that revealed truth stopped just because humans assembled a book of inspired writings and called it God's word?

I'm not the best person to defend Marian doctrine. I suppose there are those who veer away from reverence for Mary and worship her, which is indeed wrong. Even though I'm a Catholic, I spent many years away from the Church and am familiar with most of the arguments against Marian doctrine, so I have my own issues with it. But I will say that at times when I felt like I needed a matronly shoulder to cry on, since my own mother and grandparents are gone, it was a comfort to me to talk to Mary. Did she hear me? I don't know. I like to think that she did.

I can't defend the "Our Lady of Fatima" promise of salvation either, without looking into that more thoroughly.

I do realize that many people who object to this doctrine are thoughtful and well educated, which you clearly are. I also understand and agree with some of your objections. But there are so many things in life that we just don't understand and won't know until we pass to the other side. I returned to the Catholic Church with many objections, but the Lord told me to take a higher, less judgmental view. A lot of things started looking very different to me after I did that.

God bless you too.
 
Upvote 0

Red Sky at Morning

Active Member
Supporter
Oct 7, 2017
69
16
51
Crewe
✟91,805.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
@Judy H

"This needs a whole different thread, but Catholics do not believe that revelation is limited to the Bible. The question is whether God is still revealing His truth to His people or whether that stopped after the Bible as we know it was assembled."


This difference in authority is perhaps the crux of the matter.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Kenny'sID

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Feb 28, 2016
18,185
7,001
69
USA
✟585,304.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
That's very interesting, thank you. What is your authority?

My guess is Theo read that someplace, however, that doesn't make it untrue, and it's also a guess Theo would not mind at all if you show us the authority that refutes those claims. I mean without twists and turns, and that's not to say the bible has to say it directly but just very good indication as in, and for instance, how it is Godly to bow to Mother Mary, when, and debate it if you dare, scripture appears to say clearly, that's a big no no, as in ten commandment type no no.

At least I think this is a debate thread where we can do so much more than make claims. :)
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Eloy Craft

Myth only points, Truth happened!
Supporter
Jan 9, 2018
3,132
871
Chandler
✟386,808.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
You changed it. and from my end it appears you are in denial god was around long before Mary so she could not possibly be the mother of God.
The eternal nature of God is not so mysterious. Of course I don't deny it. But it must be reconciled with the Incarnation which is the heart of Divine Revelation that is the deposit of faith. With Christ eternity entered time and human history. A quality of that truth you believe because you believe the sacrifice that happened two thousand years ago forgives sins today. I deny neither the eternal nature of God nor the Incarnation of God as man. The Incarnation of God is much more mysterious since the eternal nature of God does not require Divine Revelation to know but the Incarnation of God is Divine Revelation and is unknowable without divine assistance.. May the Lord bestow on you His choicest blessings.
 
Upvote 0

Kenny'sID

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Feb 28, 2016
18,185
7,001
69
USA
✟585,304.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
The eternal nature of God is not so mysterious. Of course I don't deny it. But it must be reconciled with the Incarnation which is the heart of Divine Revelation that is the deposit of faith. With Christ eternity entered time and human history. A quality of that truth you believe because you believe the sacrifice that happened two thousand years ago forgives sins today. I deny neither the eternal nature of God nor the Incarnation of God as man. The Incarnation of God is much more mysterious since the eternal nature of God does not require Divine Revelation to know but the Incarnation of God is Divine Revelation and is unknowable without divine assistance.. May the Lord bestow on you His choicest blessings.

I read and understood every detail of it, but if that was to explain how Mary was mother of God, it went completely over my head.
 
Upvote 0

chevyontheriver

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Sep 29, 2015
19,169
16,010
Flyoverland
✟1,224,091.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-American-Solidarity
That is my firm belief and I am free to have it. As you are free to have yours.
Thank you. My firm beliefs tend to be more about Jesus than about what others believe.
Again, since you seem to have failed to notice, I actually referred to Catholic prayers and practices, not “Protestant” sources.
Somehow you fail to quote Catholic sources, the official ones even, which say we do not worship Mary, and all the time insisting that we do even though we don't.
False. And I have no “position against Mary”. I give her all of the honour and distinction Scripture gives her and not a bit more. Many Catholics believe this equals hating and insulting her, it does not. We always do well to firmly adhere to the inspired word of God and refrain from going beyond it.
Your position against Mary is actually a position against Jesus. And that position is that the son of Mary was not God. That is the natural conclusion of denying that Mary was the mother of God. You have denied that Mary is the mother of God repeatedly in this thread.
Right, God has no mother. So we can agree then.
No, we disagree. We, you and I, might agree that Mary was not before all time birthing the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. But I think you still maintain that we believe that as Catholics when you reject Mary as the mother of God. What you have really done is said that Jesus was not God at his birth to his mother Mary. Otherwise you could say that Mary was the mother of God. In short, you have become a Nestorian in rejecting this Catholic and Orthodox and even Protestant teaching.
Nope. No bitterness. A common accusation. I love Catholics.
OK. Great. Why would it even be a common accusation if you love Catholics?
 
  • Like
Reactions: SolomonVII
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Eloy Craft

Myth only points, Truth happened!
Supporter
Jan 9, 2018
3,132
871
Chandler
✟386,808.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I read and understood every detail of it, but if that was to explain how Mary was mother of God, it went completely over my head.
I was just pointing out that eternal reality is misunderstood by many Protestants. The more it's understood the more one realizes that Jesus is an eternal reality that entered time. This means that the order He established among humans in the beginning is eternal too. What Jesus established doesn't change into something He didn't establish.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SolomonVII
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.