Why worship Mary?

Truth, Salvation, reconciliation and life leads to Jesus Christ.

The approachability of Jesus Christ is summed up in his promises, that are tied to his instructions. To think that Jesus is NOT approachable directly, is to unwittingly make him out to be a liar and a scary, mean person, to be feared.

If people approach God through other persons, then they do NOT place their TRUST in the Son of God as the Comforter.

28“Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.” (Matthew 11:28-30)

It applies to Jesus and NOT Mary.

14You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.
15“If you love me, keep my commands. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Comforter (John 14:14-16)

It applies to Jesus and NOT Mary.

7“Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. (Matthew 7:7-8)

It applies to Jesus and NOT Mary.

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. (Revelation 3:20)

It applies to Jesus and NOT Mary.

You CANNOT share Jesus with another person, you will either spiritually marry him within the context of the wedding Supper of the Lamb or you will CHEAT on him.

Sharing Jesus with Mary is unwittingly cheating on Jesus Christ.

Mary cannot give you forgiveness of sins, Mary cannot reconcile you to the Father, Mary cannot lead you to the TRUTH, Mary cannot raise you from the dead. Mary is NOT within the Blood Contract/Covenant of the Father, to do anything that the Cross of Christ has not already done for you.

God considers your relationship with the mother of the man Jesus Christ of Nazareth as a worldly relationship that is temporal. Don't be upset at my words, for they are the truth in this matter.

Jesus once said.....

"Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. (Matthew 10:37)

Veneration of Mary as mother to you and your congregation/church, makes her relationship to you as that of an earthly mother. If Mary is placed on par or as equal to Jesus, then Matthew 10:37 applies to you. Please be aware of what the relationship of Mary means to you, as God and his Christ would consider it to be.

3And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine. 4Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.5His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it. (John 2:3-5)

Jesus clearly associates his duty to the Father on the Cross as having nothing to do with Mary, who he openly called woman. The term woman, within the Jewish context, means that at this point, she is no longer a virgin, but has had sexual relationship with a man.

Lybrah said:

Interesting. When I was taking my confirmation classes, I was taught that Jesus was like the father, who disciplines, and Mary was like the mother, the one who is softer. And that was supposed to be why our mothers were the more compassionate ones. They were likened to two parents.

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In my reading of history and other historians agree, that verneration Mary while ancient really began to take off in the early middle ages. Society was sharply divided between the peasants and the lords who ran the manors. After the fall of Rome the population of the cities began to empty in the west and soon developed in to the manor system which run by feudal lords. The "lord" of the manor was often strict and aloof, or at worst cruel and unforgiving. Contrast that with a lord's mother or his wife who might be more sympathetic to one's suffering and lot in life. At the same time keep in mind the christian faith was not an intellectual endeavor rather it was as real and tangible and immediate. The scriptures were not something that everyone had access nor was there a literate common population in Europe. Death was all around so there was an urgency to people's devotion. Soon popular christian devotion began to mimic this reality and over the centuries became domgatized in the Marian dogmas. This is simplistic I know as history of the period is complicated to say the least.

wilts43 said:

But how do you know which writings are scripture?

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I trust that just as God inspired His word and was faithful in doing so, He has likewise preserved His word. He knows the end from the beginning and He works all things together.

wilts43 said:

Nowhere in The Bible does this selected Library of Books (we call The Bible) tell us what books it should contain!

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The Bible is what it is because God inspired it and He decided which writings would be included. One can question the contents if one likes. Personally I do not. I simply trust that the One Who inspired His word is able to preserve it perfectly.

wilts43 said:

So you say you only "accept inspired scripture" but nowhere inside "inspired scripture" does it tell you which books are "inspired scripture".
So you are stuck!

Answer please?

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See above.

wilts43 said:

.......................................

A few related questions

(1)Where, in The Bible, does tell you to "only believe in scripture?

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God’s word is truth, by it we know all we need to know about Him and about salvation. His word is a lamp unto our feet and a light unto our path.

wilts43 said:

(2)Where IN the bible, does it tell you what books should be in the Bible?

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You asked that already. See above.

wilts43 said:

(3)Where does The Bible mention The Bible?

(4)Who selected the books for your bible?

(5)What date did they do it?

(6)Did they have infallible authority to make an infallible selection?

(7)If they made an infallible selection show me where they got this infallible authority (to select your Bible) in the Bible?

(8)The selection was far from obvious.
How do you know that including Revelations, Hebrews & Jude was right?
How do you know that omitting The Didache, The Shepherd of Hermas or The letters of Clement was right?

(9)On what authority were these decisions made?

(10) RC Sproule admits Protestants have a "fallible list of infallible books" in the Bible!
In that case you don't know if you have any, or all, of the right books in... or out!
Is your Bible infallibly selected?
By whom?

(11)If The Catholic Bishops selected the first Canon infallibly, show me (from The Bible alone) where it says they stopped being infallible.

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The answer such questions is that the Bible is God’s word, both inspired and preserved by His sovereign authority. All glory belongs to Him.

amariselle said:

Obviously. He is fully God and fully man and as God, He is Mary’s Creator.

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And Mary is His mother.

His divinity did not originate with her. He is eternal, from everlasting to everlasting.

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This is a strawman. No one has ever claimed that being His mother made her any kind of origin of His divinity.

prodromos said:

And Mary is His mother.

This is a strawman. No one has ever claimed that being His mother made her any kind of origin of His divinity.

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“Mother of God” quite literally signifies otherwise. God, the eternal, divine, uncreated One, has no mother. It is by Him all things were made, everything in Heaven and on earth. (Including Mary).

amariselle said:

“Mother of God” quite literally signifies otherwise. God, the eternal, divine, uncreated One, has no mother. It is by Him all things were made, everything in Heaven and on earth. (Including Mary).

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No, it is a defence against the heretical belief that Jesus was not God.
God the Word did not have a mother from before all ages, but He does now and ever will.

prodromos said:

No, it is a defence against the heretical belief that Jesus was not God.

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When did I ever say “Jesus is not God”?

prodromos said:

God the Word did not have a mother from before all ages, but He does now and ever will.

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God is God. He has no mother. He is eternal, unchanging, has no beginning and no end.

amariselle said:

Worship is worship. Word games don't change that. You may not personally worship Mary. Many do.

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Can you concede that not a single one of us in this discussion worships Mary, even if you think there are a few hypothetical people who might?

There were a few at the beginning of the thread that were, or acted completely clueless to what the OP brought up, so I thought the following question might be appropriate.

Can someone please explain to me how this....

Exodus 20:4-6
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

.....is not this?

I also meant to ask, How can Mary be the Mother of God, when there was no Mary before God created man/woman, Mary? Or he was in existence long before she came along.

I havn't read the whole thread so if these things have been answered, I apologize, and please tell me where they were answered.

amariselle said:

God has no beginning.

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Jesus did have a beginning in time. You should consider that eternity entered time and history and how that effects temporal reality. Catholic worship of Christ enters that reality. Maybe then you will be able to see Jesus' Divinity better.

Kenny'sID said:

I also meant to ask, How can Mary be the Mother of God, when there was no Mary before God created man/woman, Mary? Or he was in existence long before she came along.

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Enter the mystery of the Incarnation. How can Jesus be born in time and also be God? If you believe Jesus was Mary's child and you believe Jesus is God how can you not be able to connect the two dots that concludes Mary is the Mother of God? A deep seated emotional need perhaps?

The Times said:

If people approach God through other persons, then they do NOT place their TRUST in the Son of God as the Comforter.

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Or some people have no grasp of the Majesty of God. Many dumb God down to living room company.

The Times said:

The approachability of Jesus Christ is summed up in his promises, that are tied to his instructions. To think that Jesus is NOT approachable directly, is to unwittingly make him out to be a liar and a scary, mean person, to be feared.

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It's not about what we make of Him it's about what we make of ourselves.

Luke 5

8 But when Simon Peter saw it, he fell down at Jesus’ knees, saying, “Go away from me, Lord, for I am a sinful man!”

Lybrah said:

Who came up with the idea that Mary (Jesus' mother) is queen of heaven, and that people should worship her? Why did that happen?

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I think Protestants came up with that idea as a sort of strawman against Catholics.
I am not sure why it happened. But probably because it is easier to burn down a strawman than to deal with the actual reality of the place that Mary has in Catholic theology.

The Times said:

Truth, Salvation, reconciliation and life leads to Jesus Christ.

The approachability of Jesus Christ is summed up in his promises, that are tied to his instructions. To think that Jesus is NOT approachable directly, is to unwittingly make him out to be a liar and a scary, mean person, to be feared.

If people approach God through other persons, then they do NOT place their TRUST in the Son of God as the Comforter.

28“Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.” (Matthew 11:28-30)

It applies to Jesus and NOT Mary.

14You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.
15“If you love me, keep my commands. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Comforter (John 14:14-16)

It applies to Jesus and NOT Mary.

7“Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. (Matthew 7:7-8)

It applies to Jesus and NOT Mary.

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. (Revelation 3:20)

It applies to Jesus and NOT Mary.

You CANNOT share Jesus with another person, you will either spiritually marry him within the context of the wedding Supper of the Lamb or you will CHEAT on him.

Sharing Jesus with Mary is unwittingly cheating on Jesus Christ.

Mary cannot give you forgiveness of sins, Mary cannot reconcile you to the Father, Mary cannot lead you to the TRUTH, Mary cannot raise you from the dead. Mary is NOT within the Blood Contract/Covenant of the Father, to do anything that the Cross of Christ has not already done for you.

God considers your relationship with the mother of the man Jesus Christ of Nazareth as a worldly relationship that is temporal. Don't be upset at my words, for they are the truth in this matter.

Jesus once said.....

"Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. (Matthew 10:37)

Veneration of Mary as mother to you and your congregation/church, makes her relationship to you as that of an earthly mother. If Mary is placed on par or as equal to Jesus, then Matthew 10:37 applies to you. Please be aware of what the relationship of Mary means to you, as God and his Christ would consider it to be.

3And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine. 4Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.5His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it. (John 2:3-5)

Jesus clearly associates his duty to the Father on the Cross as having nothing to do with Mary, who he openly called woman. The term woman, within the Jewish context, means that at this point, she is no longer a virgin, but has had sexual relationship with a man.

Click to expand...

This post argues on false premises and only refutes a straw man not a real one.

amariselle said:

When did I ever say “Jesus is not God”?

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Unfortunately, it is the logical conclusion of your claims.
Mary is Jesus's mother.
You say God has no mother, so since Jesus has a mother He cannot, according to your logic, be God.

God is God. He has no mother. He is eternal, unchanging, has no beginning and no end.

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God is three persons. Which of the three are you referring to by the pronoun "He".

Also, you now appear to be denying the incarnation.

If you are able to concede that God the Word, the 2nd person of the Holy Trinity, who is eternal and unchanging can become man, then it should pose no problem to you that He can also have a mother. Why the double standard?

We as Catholics Love and Honour and Adore our Lord Jesus Christs Holy Divine Mother just as our Lord Jesus Christ does in God our Heavenly Father and in Holy Spirit. It is our Blessed Holy Divine Mother in fact of Whom leads innumerable hearts and Souls back to our Lord Jesus Christ in Holy Spirit in Conversions leading then to repentance of sins to Jesus and our Lord Jesus says to Healing then to Salvation ( Our Lord Jesus Christ has said to thousands of His Holy Saints/Nuns now in Heaven when appearing to His Catholic Saints/Nuns each Century well before the years 1214/1216).

To His Popes, to His Bishops, to His Priests and to His Nuns, many of them Saints through our Blessed Holy Trinity.

Our Most Holy Blessed Virgin Mother Mary is not worshipped like our Lord Jesus Christ is worshipped and what is the reason you ask this.

Our Lord Jesus Christ knows our hearts and reads our Hearts constantly as Catholics and Christians.

Most Holy Mother Mary does not like to be worshipped and is Humility itself - when I am praying to our Lord Jesus Christ to Holy Spirit and to Most Holy Mother Mary to God, it is Holy Mother Mary of Whom always guides me back to focussing on our Lord Jesus Christ and encouraging me to pray His Sorrowful Mysteries within Her Most Holy Rosary to go deeper in My Sons Passion Sorrows and Sufferings.

You are on the wrong track there I am sorry by inferring that Catholics worship our Most Holy Blessed Virgin Mother Mary - we love and honour and adore our Most Holy Divine Queen of Heaven and Earth - our Holy Divine Queen of Hearts and Souls.

Whom do you think it is when Souls pass over for Judgement by God our Heavenly Father is right next to our Lord Jesus Christ beseeching our Lord for a second opportunity for Souls and beseeching our Lord Jesus Christ for that soul not to go into the abyss of hell and instead that those souls go to Holy Purgatory instead to be purified in the fiery furnace heat too hot to ever comprehend or be compared with fire here on earth. Whom do you think intercedes with our Lord Jesus Christ continuously daily very very tired with all of the trillions of Holy Divine Tasks God Himself has Gifted our Most Holy Blessed Virgin Mother?

The Holy Callings bestowed upon our Lord Jesus and Holy Mother Marys Priests and Religious Nuns and Brothers building our Lords Holy Catholic Roman Church in most Nations each Century were some of Gods Holy Divine works through Jesus and Holy Mother Mary - Holy Mother Mary loves and serves God with all of Her Holy Immaculate Heart and be warned that when Souls our Souls pass over a Soul has nothing if we have not repented to Jesus in genuine remorse and offered up for all of the hurts and judgements and sins we have committed against Jesus and in relation to Most Holy Mother Mary.

These are not excused.

Jesus constantly requests me to pray for Holy Reparation of My Mothers Heart by mankind and they know not what they are doing.

Our Lord Jesus Christ is in particular unhappy very sad and Sorrowful in relation to people turning away or discouraging others from turning to our Most Holy Blessed Virgin Mother Mary whom is drawing hearts and Souls back to Jesus in conversions with the Holy Divine Graces God has Gifted upon Holy Mother Mary in our Lord Jesus Christ and in Holy Spirit. Whether you like it or not people, Holy Mother Mary is Present in Gods Holy Divine Presence next to our Lord Jesus Christ doing Gods Holy Divine Works in our Lord Jesus Christs Holy Divine Sacred Heart, Two Holy Divine Hearts United in God The Most High.

Yes our Blessed Holy Trinity with Most Holy Mother Mary right next to our Blessed Holy Divine Trinity. Holy Mother Mary is the Mother to all of the 12 Tribes of Judah and Holy Mother to Gods Holy 12 Disciples, Gods Holy Divine Apostles, Prophets, Priests, to all of Gods Holy Angels, Holy Saints, Holy Martyrs, Holy Souls in Heaven, all of Holy Divine heaven in God The Most High.

Why would any person/heart have a problem with this Holy Divine Fact after reading Gods Holy Word?


It is Holy Mother Mary Whom always encourages me to focus on our Lord Jesus on The Cross, to focus on His Bitter Passion and to pray for Holy Reparation of our Lords Holy Divine Sacred for the hurt that mankind has caused against Jesus Holy Divine Sacred Heart through sins committed against Jesus, against God and Holy Spirit.

It is our Lord Jesus Christ Himself Whom encourages me to pray for Holy Reparation of My Mothers Heart, for Most Holy Mother Marys Holy Immaculate Heart often when Jesus is sad and sorrowful at times from the very deephurt caused by people blaspheming and saying unkind things about Holy Mother Mary and reading peoples hearts

The Holy Rosary Jesus asks me to offer up as Holy Reparation on top of what i have prayed already many times to take away the thorns and hurts and sorrows sitting on Holy Mother Marys Holy Immaculate Heart.

We are accountable for these hurts to God Himself.

Along with our Lords broken Commandments, the broken Holy Divine Laws of God our Heavenly Fathers - particularly in relation to Governments bringing in legislation to approve gay marriage not in God The Most High, legislation approving abortions /the taking of Gods Holy Divine Gift of Life, sins of malice, unkindness, judgements committed of others, including against Most Holy Mother Mary, jealousy/avarice, lust, lustful thoughts, wandering eyes when married, wicked hearts, cruel hearts, hard cold hearts, not melted, nor praying for the melting of hearts when our hearts should be melted and not cold, non Reconciliation with our Lord Jesus Christ, not receiving our Lord in His Holy Communion from our hearts in gratitude to Jesus and many others.

Be grateful forever to our Blessed Holy Divine Mother Mary because it is Holy Mother Mary Whom prays and passes on our prayers to our Lord Jesus Christ as our Lords Holy Divine Loving Intercessory and Whom meets Her Children loving and faithful to Jesus and to Her to God when our souls pass over and or brings other Family Souls to greet us in Her Holy Divine Love in our Lord Jesus Christ.

And many other Holy Promises for those whom have prayed to Jesus and to Holy Mother Mary Her Most Holy Rosary daily with 15 Holy Promises attached and I personally have received so many Holy Divine Gifts from Jesus and Holy Mother Mary from God Himself one Being the most greatest receiving our Lord Jesus into my heart talking and speaking to my heart with Holy Mother Mary , and receiving God The Most High into my heart after Jesus and Holy Mother Mary led me to pray The Most Holy Rosary daily sometimes twice daily not in rote, going deeper into our Lord Jesus Bitter Passion focussing on Jesus Life and His Sorrowful Mysteries first in illustration then in heart, soul and adhering to the changes Jesus and Holy Mother Mary guided me in my life daily over 8 years ago well I could write a book but wont.

Save your energy and pray receiving our Lord Jesus Christ into your hearts in Holy Unity and in Holy Communion with your heart through praying The Holy Rosary and focussing on Jesus and His Bitter Passion and you wont ever have to raise questions like the above ever again because you will receive Holy Mother Mary into your heart.

all the best

It is Holy Mother Mary our HOly Divine Queen of Heaven Whom brings Holy Divine Heavenly Refreshments and Holy Divine Graces to all of the Holy Souls in Purgatory being cleansed in the Purifying fire and praying and beseeching our Lord Jesus right next to Him always united in their Two Holy Divine Two Hearts for their Soul salvation and encouraging people to pray Holy Mother Marys Holy Rosary for conversions and salvation of souls including those souls on their way to eternal damnation, to pray our Lords Holy Divine Mercy Chaplet/Novena and to pray our Lords Holy Wound Chaplet, The angelus and many other Holy Prayers and Priests and Religious Gods Holy Divine Office of Prayers.

From and through God The Most High allowing only Holy Mother Mary apart from our Lord Jesus Christ into Holy Purgatory. Saints/Nuns with and through Jesus when living here on earth bilocating were taken by Jesus and Holy Mother Mary to be shown Heaven Hell and Holy Purgatory - all have said - only Jesus and Holy Mother Mary are allowed to bring Holy Divine Refreshments and Holy Divine Graces to the Holy Souls in Purgatory and taken Souls into each of the different areas of Holy Purgatory for suffering - some have suffered for 400 years because no one offered up Holy Masses for them nor prayed for them nor offered up kind good deeds for them to exit in to Heaven. I have seen some Holy Souls in Purgatory one man had to try climbing out of a deep concrete hole in the ground hundreds of times to get out and there was no way he could get out standing alone isolated in this deep concrete hole yet not hell. It was one room/area in Holy Purgatory. I prayed for him and given a rope to get out. And there are trillions more awaiting prayers, good deeds of mercy offered up to Jesus and to Holy Mother Mary for them. Offer up what you can to Jesus and to Holy Mother Mary Whom is meeting and greeting Souls as they pass over and waiting with them for transportation to other places to commence the cleansing - a terribly sad and horrible thing for Jesus and Holy Mother Mary in Gods Holy Divine indescribable Love for us and for our souls to endure continuously.

The joy we can give Jesus is to repent sins and to encourage others to repent sins to Jesus and to offer up Holy Masses the Holy Divine Sacrifice of The Holy Masses our Lord Jesus requests through His Holy Saints His HOly Divine Flesh and Holy Divine Blood our Blessed Holy Divine Trinity changes into our Lords Real Life Presence in each Holy Mass - it is through Jesus Holy Flesh and Holy Blood we are saved.

Born in Flesh and Blood created by God The Most High
Baptized in Holy Water of our Lord Jesus Christs Holy Spirits God The Most High
We receive our Lord in His Holy Divine Flesh and Holy Blood in Holy Confession and in Holy Communion
We are absolved by Jesus in His Holy Divine Blood Rays from His Breast and from The Cross in Heaven from his Holy Wounds and in other Holy Divine Ways of our Blessed Holy Trinitys through Jesus Precious Holy Blood
We offer up our Lord in His Holy Divine Sacrifice in Prayers and in Holy Mass for the conversions and salvation of Souls
If we die in our Lord Jesus Christs Holy Divine Blood we can be saved - through Jesus and His Blessed Holy Divine Sacraments His Holy Flesh and Holy Blood - he real Life Presence according to Gods Holy Word
Gods Old Holy Covenant - the lifeblood of undefiled pure animals
Gods New Holy Covenant - our Lord Jesus Christ Himself in His Precious Holy Flesh and Precious Holy Wounds and Precious Holy Blood

and more, many more Holy Divine Prayers God our Heavenly Father and Holy Spirit Himself with and through our Lord Jesus have delivered to mankind, in particular to His Catholics.

chevyontheriver said:

Can you concede that not a single one of us in this discussion worships Mary, even if you think there are a few hypothetical people who might?

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I did not once say any of you “in this discussion” worships Mary, now did I?

Eloy Craft said:

Jesus did have a beginning in time.

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Jesus’ physical body had a beginning in time, His divinity did not. As God He is eternal, from everlasting to everlasting.

Eloy Craft said:

You should consider that eternity entered time and history and how that effects temporal reality.

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What makes you think I haven’t?

Eloy Craft said:

Catholic worship of Christ enters that reality. Maybe then you will be able to see Jesus' Divinity better.

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I disagree. All I need to “see” Jesus’ divinity is His word and the guidance of the Holy Spirit.