Why Are the Jews Wrong?

ewq1938 said:

Let's get back to your incredible (horrible) claim that God caused Jews/Judaism to fail. You showed God's reaction to their failure to be loyal to Him but you failed to show that God was responsible for their failure.

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The text says God caused their blindness, gave them a spirit of stupor. Can't be shown more clearly than that.

ewq1938 said:

After their harlotry. That is what is clear here.

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God's people are not identified by ethnicity but by faith.

So God's people are found in Israel AND amongst Gentiles.

So why did God not blind His sheep from the different flock, even though they were also unrighteous?

Jesus, (Gods anointed Christ),read from the scroll.
"The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to set the oppressed free,

I would put good money that the writer of Hebrews and Apollos and other Jews who believed in that day if they were hear today could give the people who live in this day and age a good lesson on the understood meaning of Hebrew and Aramaic words and texts in their ancient forms.

Isaiah saw Jesus's day as He wrote
Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?

I would like to remind everyone that God loves all people, and He treats all the people of His flock equally. Jew or Gentile, it is equal.

Dont imagine that you can read the OT and see that the Jews were punished, then think that the same fate cannot be given to you. God is completely just. He does not play favorites. Not all Jews ignored Christ - the Apostle Paul was a devoted Jew. You cannot put labels on people.

I am asking the OP again ... contact Jews For Jesus. Ask their opinion about the three issues. Then publish the results here.

Wordkeeper said:

The text says God caused their blindness, gave them a spirit of stupor. Can't be shown more clearly than that.

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I think the condition of their hearts, that generation,was set before Jesus came as Jesus rebuked their hypocrisy which was mostly centered on the leadership.

What is a jew in this day and age? As a member of the body of Christ we have the circumcision of the Spirit of Christ, (inward).

The world associates those that practice Judaism as Jews. Are they children of Abraham, Israelite's, Hebrews? In the past a fine line could be drawn between the gentile nations and Israel. In light of the oneness in Christ and light of the one true God and gospel message such a fine line doesn't exist anymore.

This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

Those that reject the Son are not in a covenant with God. The children of God are identified as those who hold to the testimony of God and obey Gods commandments.

Why are the Jews all wrong? The Jews, those that practice or observe. Judaism, are not inherently wrong. Coming to Christ who had been promised for them would be right, and that wouldn't stop them from being Jews. They are wrong when they are having traditions and teachings in place of the scriptures. Using the Talmud in this way is wrong, for that. But not all Jews have always done that.

FredVB said:

Why are the Jews all wrong? The Jews, those that practice or observe. Judaism, are not inherently wrong. Coming to Christ who had been promised for them would be right, and that wouldn't stop them from being Jews. They are wrong when they are having traditions and teachings in place of the scriptures. Using the Talmud in this way is wrong, for that. But not all Jews have always done that.

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Those that practice Judaism utterly reject Jesus as both Lord and Christ. If they loved the Father they would love His Son.
Those that listen and learn from the Father go to the Son. As is written in the prophets, "they shall all be taught by God"
The law had curses and blessings and punishments were per transgression. Cursed is He who does not do everything written in the law.
"It was better for the one man to die then the whole nation to perish"
The NT is not a lie created by a dead man.
The NT was written for future generations and it shows access into the Holy of Holies by the blood of Christ Jesus for at His last breath the curtain was torn in two opening that access.
Whoever calls on the Lord has that access. Jew or gentile, rich or poor, male and female. They are all part of one family in Christ and all received the same Spirit given freely by Jesus to those that come to Him for life. KEY=>Those that come to Jesus by faith for life.

Those religions that teach otherwise are mistaken.

FredVB said:

Why are the Jews all wrong? The Jews, those that practice or observe. Judaism, are not inherently wrong. Coming to Christ who had been promised for them would be right, and that wouldn't stop them from being Jews. They are wrong when they are having traditions and teachings in place of the scriptures. Using the Talmud in this way is wrong, for that. But not all Jews have always done that.

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Randy777 said:

Those that practice Judaism utterly reject Jesus as both Lord and Christ. If they loved the Father they would love His Son.
Those that listen and learn from the Father go to the Son. As is written in the prophets, "they shall all be taught by God"
The law had curses and blessings and punishments were per transgression. Cursed is He who does not do everything written in the law.
"It was better for the one man to die then the whole nation to perish"
The NT is not a lie created by a dead man.
The NT was written for future generations and it shows access into the Holy of Holies by the blood of Christ Jesus for at His last breath the curtain was torn in two opening that access.
Whoever calls on the Lord has that access. Jew or gentile, rich or poor, male and female. They are all part of one family in Christ and all received the same Spirit given freely by Jesus to those that come to Him for life. KEY=>Those that come to Jesus by faith for life.

Those religions that teach otherwise are mistaken.

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I have no argument with any of that from the new testament of the Bible. Still not all of Judaism was inherently with rejection of the Christ, who was promised to the Jews. All the first believers who were his followers, and those becoming Christian believers for the next decade, were all Jewish. Jews of old testament times were not all excluded either. And Jews can still come to Christ, and some do, with this not really meaning they are no longer Jews. And there is this promise, for a coming generation that will be the remnant, all of those of Israel will be saved.

FredVB said:

I have no argument with any of that from the new testament of the Bible. Still not all of Judaism was inherently with rejection of the Christ, who was promised to the Jews. All the first believers who were his followers, and those becoming Christian believers for the next decade, were all Jewish. Jews of old testament times were not all excluded either. And Jews can still come to Christ, and some do, with this not really meaning they are no longer Jews. And there is this promise, for a coming generation that will be the remnant, all of those of Israel will be saved.

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Jews who follow Jesus are no longer Israel. When all of Israel follow Jesus, they are all also no longer Israel.

FredVB said:

I have no argument with any of that from the new testament of the Bible. Still not all of Judaism was inherently with rejection of the Christ, who was promised to the Jews. All the first believers who were his followers, and those becoming Christian believers for the next decade, were all Jewish. Jews of old testament times were not all excluded either. And Jews can still come to Christ, and some do, with this not really meaning they are no longer Jews. And there is this promise, for a coming generation that will be the remnant, all of those of Israel will be saved.

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Wordkeeper said:

Jews who follow Jesus are no longer Israel. When all of Israel follow Jesus, they are all also no longer Israel.

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With this then there are two extremes saying very contrary things. They are your statement that Jews, people of Israel, when they believe what was prophesied for them will no longer be Israel, and the statement others claim that the church is now Israel. They can't be both true, unless it is with the weird belief that gentiles believing become Israel but Jews believing stop being the people of Israel. But what scripture passages or sources do you have to show as basis for your statement?

FredVB said:

With this then there are two extremes saying very contrary things. They are your statement that Jews, people of Israel, when they believe what was prophesied for them will no longer be Israel, and the statement others claim that the church is now Israel. They can't be both true, unless it is with the weird belief that gentiles believing become Israel but Jews believing stop being the people of Israel. But what scripture passages or sources do you have to show as basis for your statement?

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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shema_Yisrael

Quote
Shema Yisrael (or Sh'ma Yisrael; Hebrew: שְׁמַע יִשְׂרָאֵל‬; "Hear, [O] Israel") are the first two words of a section of the Torah, and is the title (better known as The Shema) of a prayer that serves as a centerpiece of the morning and evening Jewish prayer services. The first verse encapsulates the monotheistic essence of Judaism: "Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God, the LORD is one" (Hebrew: שְׁמַע יִשְׂרָאֵל יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵינוּ יְהוָה אֶחָֽד׃‬), found in Deuteronomy 6:4, sometimes alternatively translated as "The LORD is our God, the LORD is one." Observant Jews consider the Shema to be the most important part of the prayer service in Judaism, and its twice-daily recitation as a mitzvah (religious commandment). It is traditional for Jews to say the Shema as their last words, and for parents to teach their children to say it before they go to sleep at night.

Wordkeeper said:

Jews who follow Jesus are no longer Israel. When all of Israel follow Jesus, they are all also no longer Israel.

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Paul testified that he was a Jew from the tribe of Benjamin AFTER he got saved.

Steve Petersen said:

Paul testified that he was a Jew from the tribe of Benjamin AFTER he got saved.

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I think he stopped saying shema:

1 Timothy 2
5For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, theman Christ Jesus, 6who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time.

Wordkeeper said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shema_Yisrael

Quote
Shema Yisrael (or Sh'ma Yisrael; Hebrew: שְׁמַע יִשְׂרָאֵל‬; "Hear, [O] Israel") are the first two words of a section of the Torah, and is the title (better known as The Shema) of a prayer that serves as a centerpiece of the morning and evening Jewish prayer services. The first verse encapsulates the monotheistic essence of Judaism: "Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God, the LORD is one" (Hebrew: שְׁמַע יִשְׂרָאֵל יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵינוּ יְהוָה אֶחָֽד׃‬), found in Deuteronomy 6:4, sometimes alternatively translated as "The LORD is our God, the LORD is one." Observant Jews consider the Shema to be the most important part of the prayer service in Judaism, and its twice-daily recitation as a mitzvah (religious commandment). It is traditional for Jews to say the Shema as their last words, and for parents to teach their children to say it before they go to sleep at night.

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Thanks for posting that. I can use this opportunity to say that not being contrary to that, I am supportive believing that. There is but one God in truth, Yahweh.

Wordkeeper said:

Jews who follow Jesus are no longer Israel. When all of Israel follow Jesus, they are all also no longer Israel.

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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shema_Yisrael
Quote
Shema Yisrael (or Sh'ma Yisrael; Hebrew: שְׁמַע יִשְׂרָאֵל‬; "Hear, [O] Israel") are the first two words of a section of the Torah, and is the title (better known as The Shema) of a prayer that serves as a centerpiece of the morning and evening Jewish prayer services. The first verse encapsulates the monotheistic essence of Judaism: "Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God, the LORD is one" (Hebrew: שְׁמַע יִשְׂרָאֵל יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵינוּ יְהוָה אֶחָֽד׃‬), found in Deuteronomy 6:4, sometimes alternatively translated as "The LORD is our God, the LORD is one." Observant Jews consider the Shema to be the most important part of the prayer service in Judaism, and its twice-daily recitation as a mitzvah (religious commandment). It is traditional for Jews to say the Shema as their last words, and for parents to teach their children to say it before they go to sleep at night.

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Steve Petersen said:

Paul testified that he was a Jew from the tribe of Benjamin AFTER he got saved.

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Wordkeeper said:

I think he stopped saying shema:
1 Timothy 2
5For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time.

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FredVB said:

Thanks for posting that. I can use this opportunity to say that not being contrary to that, I am supportive believing that. There is but one God in truth, Yahweh.

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Jews coming to Christ who was promised to them can still recite that, and I imagine they probably do, they are still Jewish anyway, and that passage is true, I and others believing in Christ believe that passage. There is one God and savior, the one Lord. This is Yahweh. It is indeed a monotheistic position, Yahweh is one being. We can believe in the heavenly Father, and in Jesus as Christ, and in the Spirit of God, and still know that Yahweh is God, the one supreme Being, and there are no others equal to being God and savior. Maybe you don't understand that, but this is so.

FredVB said:

Jews coming to Christ who was promised to them can still recite that, and I imagine they probably do, they are still Jewish anyway, and that passage is true, I and others believing in Christ believe that passage. There is one God and savior, the one Lord. This is Yahweh. It is indeed a monotheistic position, Yahweh is one being. We can believe in the heavenly Father, and in Jesus as Christ, and in the Spirit of God, and still know that Yahweh is God, the one supreme Being, and there are no others equal to being God and savior. Maybe you don't understand that, but this is so.

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If Israel says people are to be baptised in the name of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit, they are no longer Israel. You see, only Christians , not Israel, not the rest of the world, have a category called mystery, where something can be what it is not. In this case, where three persons are not three Gods.

How will Israel be grafted back into the People of God? In future, God will give them a new definition of One.

Hear o Israel, the Lord your God is One!

Saucy said:

I hope this is in the right section. If not, mods please move.

I was watching a video from Ben Shapiro today and he was asked, as a Jew, why Jesus wasn't the Messiah. He had a complicated answer, but basically gives three reasons.

1) He says God cannot manifest Himself as a man.

2) Jews don't really believe in an afterlife like we do. They pretty much think theyll get recycled back into God's Spirit.

3) Christians don't read the Hebrew version of the bible, so we take the prophetic verses out of context.

I'm trying to come up with scriptural answers to these claims and could use some help. Why are the Jews wrong about Jesus?

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1) So what about when the 3 men visited Abram and the one said, "I will go and see for myself.." before I destroy it, in reference to Soddom (Gen 18:1)?
"The Lord appeared to Abraham near the large trees of Mamre. Abraham was sitting at the entrance to his tent. It was the hottest time of the day. 2 Abraham looked up and saw three men standing nearby. So he quickly left the entrance to his tent to greet them. He bowed low to the ground."

Who did Jacob wrestle with? (Gen 32:24 So Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him till daybreak. 25 When the man saw that he could not overpower him, he touched the socket of Jacob’s hip so that his hip was wrenched as he wrestled with the man. 26 Then the man said, “Let me go, for it is daybreak.”
But Jacob replied, “I will not let you go unless you bless me.”
27 The man asked him, “What is your name?”
“Jacob,” he answered.
28 Then the man said, “Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with humans and have overcome.”

Who was the fourth person seen in the furnace in Daniel?

2) Why then, did the Apostles (Jews) ask Jesus if now was time he would restore the kingdom?

3) Probably some truth, but then what are the Messianic Jews reading?