But just not in his lifetime as Paul is the one who says that Jesus will destroy the man of lawlessness
And yet Paul states that his audience "NOW" knew what was restraining the man of sin. In other words, the man of sin was presently being restrained during the time of Paul.
2 Thessalonians 2:6 And you know what is restraining him
NOW so that he may be revealed in his time.
Paul taught that Jesus return to earth will be in the future and not his lifetime
1.) Paul taught that Jesus' coming was future to him, but very soon. Paul taught that they were living in the last days:
1 Corinthians 7:29 But this I say, brethren,
the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none;
Romans 13:11-12 And that, knowing the time, that now
it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now
is our
salvation nearer than when we believed. The night is far spent,
the day is at hand
Romans 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet
shortly.
1 Corinthians 10:11 Now these things happened to them as an example, but they were written down for our instruction,
on whom the end of the ages has come.
Hebrews 1:2
in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world
2.) Peter taught that Jesus' coming was future to him, but very soon. Peter taught that they were living in the last days:
Acts 2:16-17 But this is what was uttered through the prophet Joel: “‘
And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh,
1 Peter 1:20 He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest
in the last times for the sake of you
1 Peter 4:7
The end of all things is at hand; therefore be self-controlled and sober-minded for the sake of your prayers
3.) James taught that Jesus' coming was future to him, but very soon. James taught that the coming of Jesus was at hand:
James 5:8-9 You also, be patient. Establish your hearts,
for the coming of the Lord is at hand. Do not grumble against one another, brothers, so that you may not be judged; behold, the
Judge is standing at the door.
4.) John taught that it was the last hour:
1 John 2:18 Children,
it is the last hour; and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have appeared.
This is how we know it is the last hour
**We have ample scripture to show that the apostles believed they were living in the last days, the end of the age, and that it was the last hour. Is there any scripture that states Jesus would not come in the apostles life time, as you say?
you can believe what you want but there is no scripture that says that Jesus has returned from heaven back to earth and only when Jesus returns from heaven to earth is the time when Jesus destroys the man of lawlessness ,
I agree there is no scripture that states Jesus returned from heaven. There is however, plenty of scripture written in the 1st century that states Jesus was coming soon and quickly.
making assumptions that it has already happened without exact evidence is not a wise thing
Without evidence? The temple was destroyed in 70ad, no? If that is not a testament to Jesus' words, then I don't know what is.
The simple fact that you do not understand that Jesus return to earth has Nothing at all whatsoever to do with the temple in 70 AD being destroyed , you don't understand -
So let's break down what I do not understand then:
1.) Jesus points to the '2nd' temple building, in front of them, and states it will be destroyed:
Matthew 24:1-2 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call
his attention to its buildings. “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another;
every one will be thrown down.”
2.) At the mount of olives, the disciples inquire Jesus about this temple destruction:
Matthew 24:3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “
when will this happen, and what will be the SIGN of your coming and of the end of the age?”
Matthew 24:3: when will this happen? = Mark 13:4 Tell us, when will these things happen? = Luke 21:7 Teacher,” they asked, “when will these things happen?
Matthew 23:3 and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?” = Mark 13:4 And what will be the sign that they are all about to be fulfilled?” = Luke 21:7 And what will be the sign that they are about to take place?”
3.) Jesus then lists several events the apostles would experience (wars, persecution, false messiahs, earthquakes, famines, pestilence) that lead up to the siege and destruction of Jerusalem:
a.) False Messiahs
Matthew 24:4,23,25,26 Jesus answered, “See to it that no one deceives
YOU. At that time, if anyone says to
YOU, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There He is,’ do not believe it. See, I have told
YOU in advance. So if they tell
YOU, ‘There He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it
b.) Wars and rumors of wars
YOU will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that
YOU are not alarmed. These things must happen
c.) persecution
Matthew 24:9 Then they will hand
YOU over to be persecuted and killed, and
YOU will be hated by all nations on account of My name
d.) Abomination of Desolation
Matthew 24:15 So when
YOU see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation
e.) fleeing Jerusalem's destruction
matthew 24:20 Pray that
YOUR flight will not occur in the winter or on the Sabbath
f.) All these things
Matthew 24:33 also, when
YOU see all these things,
YOU know that He is
d near, right at the door.
4.) Jesus then states:
Matthew 24:34 I tell you,
this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened
As paul states in 1 Corinthians 10:11, he believed they were living at the end of the ages, of which the disciples asked when the end of the age would occur in Matthew 24:3. Jesus tells the disciples in Matthew 24:33 that when you see all these, he is near, RIGHT AT THE DOOR, just as James states in James 5:8-9, that Jesus' coming was at hand, and the JUDGE was AT THE DOOR. Additionally, the temple was destroyed in 70AD just as Jesus predicted within their generation.
Noticing that the only thing that is ever talked about is the temple that was destroyed and your refusal to acknowledge that Gods Word speaks of another temple -
Please enlighten me on where the new testament states that a '3rd' earthly temple building will be rebuilt and then destroyed again. Because clearly in the olivet discourse it is about the '2nd' temple. Saying the temple in the olivet discourse is not the 2nd temple that existed during the apostles generation a complete distortion of scripture.
and you do not acknowledge the events that focus on Jesus return and that is why you fail to understand this - in the preterist and amil view Everything is centered on focused on the temple that was destroyed and disregarding everything else regarding Jesus return
Pot calling the kettle black just a little.
Which events specifically have I ignored, this might help me instead of just making a generic statement.
So none of the events leading up to the 2nd temple destruction, as predicted in the olivet discourse, occurred in the apostle's (this) generation?
**borrowing from parousia70 previous post:
False messianic movements-- Dositheus the Samaritan, Simon Magus deified in Rome, Theudas (Acts 5:36-37), Manahem and, under the government of Felix, "deceivers rose up daily in Judea, and persuaded the people to follow them into the wilderness, assuring them that they should there behold conspicuous signs and wonders performed by the ALMIGHTY" (Josephus). Felix, from time to time, apprehended many and put them to death. About this period (A.D. 55) arose another Felix, the celebrated Egyptian impostor, who collected thirty-thousand followers, and persuaded them to accompany him to the Mount of Olives, telling, them that from thence they should see the walls of Jerusalem fall down at his command as a prelude to the capture of the Roman garrison, and to their obtaining the sovereignty of the city. Partial list: Judas, son of Hezekiah (4 BCE); Simon of Peraea (4 BCE); Athronges, the shepherd (4 BCE); Judas, the Galilean (6 CE); The Samaritan prophet (36 CE); King Herod Agrippa (44 CE); Theudas (? CE); The Egyptian prophet (52-58 CE); Menahem, the son of Judas the Galilean (66 CE); John of Gischala (67-70 CE); Vespasian (67 CE); Simon bar Giora (69-70 CE)
WARS -- Claudius' Roman war with Britain/East Anglia, at least three Jewish insurrections against Rome prior to the 60s AD -- one was violently put down by Cuspius Fadus. The Jewish/Alexandrian revolt upon Caligula's death, Claudius' martial law declared in Palestine after the jewish insurrection at the death of Agrippa I. The Germanic tribes in present-day Belgium and Germany made perpetual trouble for the legions throughout the reign. A smouldering Balkan war was in continuous progress. All this, of course only escalated, and Rome in 68-70 began its own Civil Wars that nearly toppled the empire. As Tacitus wrote, " Four princes [Galba, Otho, Vitellius, Domitian] killed by the sword; three civil wars, several foreign wars; and mostly raging at the same time. Favorable events in the East [the subjection of the Jews], unfortunate ones in the West. Illyria disturbed, Gaul uneasy; Britain conquered and soon relinquished; the nations of Sarmatia and Suevia rising against us; the Parthians excited by the deception of a pseudo-Nero."
FAMINES/PESTILENCE -- Acts 11:28 records the worldwide famine. Josephus reports the famine in Jerusalem in the 60s AD which killed hundreds of thousands during the Jewish War (AD 66-70). Accounts of infanticide and cannibalism as foretold in
Deuteronomy 28:53,57 -- women cooked and ate their babies (Josephus; Wars 6:3:3-4; Wars 5:1:4). Read more on wars of this time and false prophets -- (Josephus: Antiq. 20:5:1-4; 20:8:5-10; Wars 2:10:1; 2:13:4-7; 6:5:2)
PERSECUTION -- Persecution of the early church by the Jews and later by Nero as he blames the Christian sect for the burning of Rome. This went on the entire AD 30-66 by the Jews, and Nero's persecution was 3.5 years from 64-68AD.
Matthew 24:9-13 is exactly parallel to
Matthew 10:16-23 which all scholars assign to a 1st century fulfillment. Also the Jewish Civil War occurred in 66-69AD (Josephus; Wars, 2:17:1-10; 2:18:1-11; 4:6:2-3; 5:1:2-5; 5:6:1; 5:13:6; 6:2:1)
EARTHQUAKE -- destroyed Laodicea, Colossae, and Hierapolis in around 61-62 AD
TEMPLE DESTRUCTION -- occurred in 70 AD by the roman armies.
