THE SABBATH IS GOD'S 4th COMMANDMENT - WHERE IS THE SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS IT IS ABOLISHED?

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klutedavid

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Hello all,

This thread is for friendly discussion only. So please be nice here.

The challenge I am putting up here is for anyone to show even one scripture that says God's 4th Commandment of the 10 commandments (Exodus 20:8-11) which was spoken and written by God himself to his people, has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

Can anyone please show me where in all the bible does is say (SOLA SCRIPTURA; Scripture only please)...

1. That God's 4th commandments 7th day Sabbath has been abolished?

2. That Jesus is a Sabbath?

3. The Sabbath (seventh day) was ever changed from the seventh to the first day of the week?

4. Where we are told to keep the first day of the week holy?

5. Where the first day of the week (Sunday) is ever called a holy day?

6. That says that Jesus ever kept the first day (Sunday)?

7. That tells us to keep the first day in honour of the resurrection of Christ?

8. Where the first day is ever given any sacred name?

9. That affirms that any of the apostles ever kept the first day as the Sabbath?

10. From any apostolic writings that authorizes Sunday observance as the Sabbath of God?

11. Where we are told not to work on the first day of the week?

12. That says the seventh day is no longer God's Sabbath day?

13. That says the seventh day Sabbath is ABOLISHED?

14. Where the apostles ever taught any convert to keep the first day of the week as a Sabbath?

15. Where the first day was ever appointed to be kept as the Lord's Day?

16. Where the first day of the week is ever called the Lord's Day?

17. That says that the first day of the week was ever sanctified and hallowed as a day of rest?

18. That says that the Father or the Son (Jesus) rested on the first day of the week?

19. That says that Jesus, Paul or any other of the apostles taught anyone to observe the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

20. That calls the seventh day the “Jewish Sabbath” or one text that calls Sunday the “Christian Sabbath”?

21. Telling man to keep the first day of the week holy or to worship or rest on the first day of the week?

22. Authorizing anyone to set aside God's Sabbath and observe any other day?

23. Showing any of the apostles keeping the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

24. Authorizing someone to set aside the fourth Commandment and observe any other day of the week?

25. Where any apostle taught us to keep the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

26. Declaring that the seventh day is no longer the Eternal Sabbath day?

27. Where Sunday is now appointed to be kept as the New Testament Sabbath or holy day?

...................

Something to think about here because we are all accountable to God come judgment day where we will all be judged by the Word of God (John 12:47-48).

God's Word makes it very clear that if we follow the teachings of men over the Word of God we are not following God...

MATTHEW 15:3-9 [3],
[3], But he answered and said unto them, Why do you also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
[4], For God commanded, saying, Honor your father and mother: and, He that curses father or mother, let him die the death.
[5], But you say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift devoted to God, whatsoever you might have received from me;
[6], And honors not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have you made the commandment of God void by your tradition.
[7], You hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,
[8], These people draw near unto me with their mouth, and honor me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
[9], But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

If we are KNOWINGLY breaking ANY of God's commandments we are not worshipping God.

Look forward to your thoughts...






.
Some of these questions are repeated.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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But you are definitely saying if you don't keep the sabbath you are going to hell.

Now NBB, that is not true at all. Please post the reference were I have ever said if you do not keep the Sabbath you are going to hell? If you cannot then please think about what you are posting here.

Suggesting all other denomination pastors and congregations are totally false religions that God can't support.

DITTO" I have never said such things. These are your words not mine and neither do I belive them.

The bible mentions that sabbath is something we do not necesarily need to follow in christian faith,

Really? Where is the scripture?

you interpret it that it is other sabbaths not the weekly one. I take the more clear interpretation.

Because that is what the scriptures say. You do not have a more clear interpretation as you are not considering context (see v11-14 and v16-17) all of which are discussing the laws in "ORDINANCES" not the 10 Commandments.

Detailed scriptures support here click me.

Now just say for arguments sake that you are correct in your interpretation of COL 2:16. It still is not saying that God's 4th Commandment is abolsihed and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day now does it? FYI Sabbath vs Sunday was never an issue in this chapter.
So wich ever way you want to believe COL 2:26 it still does not say God's 4th Commandment is abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

Don't compare keeping the sabbath as the same as lying, murder or sexual sin because that is not correct and a lot of people would have realized that by now.

Why not? God's 4th Commandment is one of the 10 commandments that give us a KNOWLEDGE of what sin is (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; James 2:8-11; 1 John 3:4) James 2:8-11 say that if we break any one of the 10 Commandments we stand guilty before God of committing sin. Many people do not realise it because the RCC changed God's 4th commandment to the worship God on Sunday the first day of the week for which there is no scripture and this is how people have been brought up.

ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH ADMITS TO CHANGING GOD'S 4th COMMANDMENT..


But i guess you are deep in your belief so the only thing i can tell is that the Holy spirit is not offended for you not keeping the sabbath because the Holy spirit is being gived to christians who not do it and they don't loose Him because of that.

What it comes down to is who do we BELIEVE and FOLLOW? God's WORD or the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God. We must not hide from God's WORD but be like the faithful Bareans and take it to the LORD in prayer and seek him through his WORD.

God's sheep here his voice (the Word).

................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
 
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NBB

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Now NBB, that is not true at all. Please post the reference were I have ever said if you do not keep the Sabbath you are going to hell? If you cannot then please think about what you are posting here.

DITTO" I have never said such things. These are your words not mine and neither do I belive them.


---------------

Sorry for the messy post i don't know how to quote properly
i have put my responses between ------------

Here you wrote it:
---------------

It is important to believe all of God's Word because that is where life to the believer comes from (Matthew 4:4). It will be the Word of God that will judge us in the last days (John 12:47-48). Salvation is from sin and not in sin. If your faith leads to a life of known unrepentant sin you have not been born again and do not know Jesus and do not have the faith of God’s Word (James 2:20).

The Gospel is not Jesus calling the righteous but sinners to repentance (Matthew 9:13). Whosoever commits sin is a servant of sin and if the son shall make you free you shall be free indeed (John 8:34-36). Jesus says, Marvel not that I say unto you, Ye must be born again. (John 3:7) because whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (1 John 3:9). Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God (Luke 8:11).

It is only by faith in God's Word that we have salvation from sin. Jesus says; If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free from sin (John 8:31-36). For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God (Ephesians 2:8). Only sinners that need a Savior have salvation because the sinner knows he cannot save himself (Matthew 9:13; John 15:5). We are not saved by God's Law (Romans 3:20). God's Law gives us a knowledge of sin and brings us to Jesus so we can be saved (1 John 3:4; Romans 3:30; Romans 7:7; Galatians 3:24).

There is no Gospel without God's Law because there is no knowledge of sin. If there is no knowledge of sin there is no need of a Savior. If there is no need of a Savior there is no salvation. If there is no salvation you are lost and without hope and the scripture is fulfilled for as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law (Romans 2:12). Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law (Romans 3:31).

---------------
Which is the same as saying christians who not follow the sabbath are in unrepentant
sin and are going to be judged because of that.

And:
That we are sinners because we do not keep the sabbath, you said it.
----------------


Really? Where is the scripture?

-----------------
Let nobody judge you about sabbaths. But you don't belive in that interpretation so for you it doesn't say anything.
------------------------------

Because that is what the scriptures. You do not have a more clear interpretation as you are not considering context (see v11-14 and v16-17) all of which are discussing the laws in "ORDINANCES" not the 10 Commandments.

Detailed scriptures support here click me.

Now just say for arguments sake that you are correct in your interpretation of COL 2:16. It still is not saying that God's 4th Commandment is abolsihed and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day now does it? FYI Sabbath vs Sunday was never an issue in this chapter.
So wich ever way you want to believe COL 2:26 it still does not say God's 4th Commandment is abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

-----------------
It does not say we need to keep sunday, it says we are not as christian need to follow the sabbath or the sunday nor any of them.
-----------------

Why not? God's 4th Commandment is one of the 10 commandments that give us a KNOWLEDGE of what sin is (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; James 2:8-11; 1 John 3:4) James 2:8-11 say that if we break any one of the 10 Commandments we stand guilty before God of committing sin. Many people do not realise it because the RCC changed God's 4th commandment to the worship God on Sunday the first day of the week for which there is no scripture and this is how people have been brought up.

ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH ADMITS TO CHANGING GOD'S 4th COMMANDMENT..

-----------------------------------
It's not a sin in this time to not following the law about the Holy day. My personal testimony again is because: I didn't seem to offend the Holy spirit about it but if keeping it is the same as sexual sin lying murder etc. then i would had problems with the Holy spirit.
---------------------------------

What it comes down to is who do we BELIEVE and FOLLOW? God's WORD or the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God.

God's sheep here his voice (the Word).
SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)
Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

-----------------
Here you are saying again that majority of denominations are not to enter heaven because of the sabbath.
--------------

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

----------------
We need to keep neither of them to be saved.
------------------

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).[/QUOTE]

Sorry for the messy post i don't know how to quote properly
i have put my responses between ------------
 
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συνείδησις

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Sorry for the messy post i don't know how to quote properly

You can either click Reply (bottom right of post you want to quote), or select the text that you want to respond to with your mouse, release the mouse button, and then click the Reply thing that appears at the bottom right of the selected text. You can keep doing that to make multiple comments to multiple quotes. Also you can click Quote to add that text to multiquote.
 
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NBB

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You can either click Reply (bottom right of post you want to quote), or select the text that you want to respond to with your mouse, release the mouse button, and then click the Reply thing that appears at the bottom right of the selected text. You can keep doing that to make multiple comments to multiple quotes. Also you can click Quote to add that text to multiquote.

Ok thanks i will keep that in mind.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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LGW wrote; Now NBB, that is not true at all. Please post the reference were I have ever said if you do not keep the Sabbath you are going to hell? If you cannot then please think about what you are posting here.

DITTO" I have never said such things. These are your words not mine and neither do I belive them.

---------------
Here you wrote it: LGW wrote: It is important to believe all of God's Word because that is where life to the believer comes from (Matthew 4:4). It will be the Word of God that will judge us in the last days (John 12:47-48). Salvation is from sin and not in sin. If your faith leads to a life of known unrepentant sin you have not been born again and do not know Jesus and do not have the faith of God’s Word (James 2:20).

The Gospel is not Jesus calling the righteous but sinners to repentance (Matthew 9:13). Whosoever commits sin is a servant of sin and if the son shall make you free you shall be free indeed (John 8:34-36). Jesus says, Marvel not that I say unto you, Ye must be born again. (John 3:7) because whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (1 John 3:9). Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God (Luke 8:11).

It is only by faith in God's Word that we have salvation from sin. Jesus says; If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free from sin (John 8:31-36). For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God (Ephesians 2:8). Only sinners that need a Savior have salvation because the sinner knows he cannot save himself (Matthew 9:13; John 15:5). We are not saved by God's Law (Romans 3:20). God's Law gives us a knowledge of sin and brings us to Jesus so we can be saved (1 John 3:4; Romans 3:30; Romans 7:7; Galatians 3:24).

There is no Gospel without God's Law because there is no knowledge of sin. If there is no knowledge of sin there is no need of a Savior. If there is no need of a Savior there is no salvation. If there is no salvation you are lost and without hope and the scripture is fulfilled for as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law (Romans 2:12). Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law (Romans 3:31).
---------------
Which is the same as saying christians who not follow the sabbath are in unrepentant sin and are going to be judged because of that. And: That we are sinners because we do not keep the sabbath, you said it.

Hi NBB, take a look at what your quoting and please explain how what you are quoting from in the first section above says "christians who not follow the sabbath are in unrepentant sin and are going to be judged because of that" It is not saying that at all. The post you are quoting from is nearly all scripture. Your saying things I have never said.

LGW wrote; Really? Where is the scripture? Let nobody judge you about sabbaths. But you don't belive in that interpretation so for you it doesn't say anything.
NBB you are only repeating yourself here and not responding to what I wrote to you earlier or the scriptures that disagree with you.

Detailed scriptures support here click me.

Now just say for arguments sake that you are correct in your interpretation of COL 2:16. It still is not saying that God's 4th Commandment is abolsihed and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day now does it? FYI Sabbath vs Sunday was never an issue in this chapter. So wich ever way you want to believe COL 2:26 it still does not say God's 4th Commandment is abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.
It does not say we need to keep sunday, it says we are not as christian need to follow the sabbath or the sunday nor any of them.
Really? Please show where in the scripture it says we are Christians do not need to keep God's 4th commandment or any of them.

Do you BELIEVE JESUS and all the APOSTLES? CLICK ME
.

It's not a sin in this time to not following the law about the Holy day. My personal testimony again is because: I didn't seem to offend the Holy spirit about it but if keeping it is the same as sexual sin lying murder etc. then i would had problems with the Holy spirit.
Really where does it say what you have written above in God's WORD?
Here you are saying again that majority of denominations are not to enter heaven because of the sabbath.
Not at all I have said no such thing. I have only provided God's WORD that says those who continue in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter God's Kingdom (please see, Hebrews 10:26-27; Hebrews 6:4-8; 1 John 3:3-9; 1 John 2:3-4).

Sorry my friend these are God's WORD not mine. I cannot take credit for them. In your view will those who continue in KNOWN UNREPENTANT sin enter into God's Kingdom?

Hope this helps. No problem about the messy post. I could follow most of it. ;)

Only God's WORD is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it over the traditions and teachings of men that break the commandments of God. This thread is only about being a faithful Berean and seeking God's truth through his Word and pointing all to Christ who is the living Word of God. Those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW him are his sheep and people.

May God bless you as you seek him prayerfully through his Word.
 
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NBB

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---------------


Hi NBB, take a look at what your quoting and please explain how what you are quoting from in the first section above says "christians who not follow the sabbath are in unrepentant sin and are going to be judged because of that" It is not saying that at all. The post you are quoting from is nearly all scripture. Your saying things I have never said.


NBB you are only repeating yourself here and not responding to what I wrote to you earlier or the scriptures that disagree with you.

Detailed scriptures support here click me.

Now just say for arguments sake that you are correct in your interpretation of COL 2:16. It still is not saying that God's 4th Commandment is abolsihed and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day now does it? FYI Sabbath vs Sunday was never an issue in this chapter. So wich ever way you want to believe COL 2:26 it still does not say God's 4th Commandment is abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

Really? Please show where in the scripture it says we are Christians do not need to keep God's 4th commandment or any of them.

Do you BELIEVE JESUS and all the APOSTLES? CLICK ME
.


Really where does it say what you have written above in God's WORD?

Not at all I have said no such thing. I have only provided God's WORD that says those who continue in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter God's Kingdom (please see, Hebrews 10:26-27; Hebrews 6:4-8; 1 John 3:3-9; 1 John 2:3-4). Sorry my friend these are God's WORD not mine. I cannot take credit for them. In your view will those who continue in KNOWN UNREPENTANT sin enter into God's Kingdom?

Hope this helps. No problem about the messy post. I could follow most of it. ;)

Only God's WORD is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it over the traditions and teachings of men that break the commandments of God. This thread is only about being a faithful Berean and seeking God's truth through his Word and pointing all to Christ who is the living Word of God. Those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW him are his sheep and people.

May God bless you as you seek him prayerfully through his Word.

But you are basically saying that we are going to hell... indirectly or not if not keeping the sabbath its the same as murder and sexual sin and etc. then the christians who not follow the sabbath are in unrepentant sin for you and to be judged about that.

I have not written above word of God anything but you are interpreting the bible your own way and other people other way. And in my experience the Holy spirit is not offended by my lack of sabbath keeping.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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But you are basically saying that we are going to hell... indirectly or not if not keeping the sabbath its the same as murder and sexual sin and etc. then the christians who not follow the sabbath are in unrepentant sin for you and to be judged about that.

I am not saying any such thing. Please read the scriptures and tell me what they say?

WHAT IS SIN?

JAMES 2:8-11
[8], If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well:
[9], But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
[10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
[11] For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF GOD'S LAW

James is pretty clear if we brake ANY of God's Law (10 commandments) then we are a TRANSGRESSOR of God's LAW

links to...........

1 JOHN 3:4 [4], Whosoever commits SIN transgresses also the law: for SIN is the transgression of the law.

John is in agreement with James and states that if we TRANSGRESS God's LAW then we commit SIN because SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF GOD'S LAW. So it is very clear that SIN is breaking ANY of God's LAW (10 commandments)

Links to...........

ROMANS 7:7 [7]. What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known SIN, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Well here we have Paul in agreement with James and John also telling us that SIN is breaking God's commandments and uses the 10th commandment as an example of breaking any of God's LAW (10 commandments) = SIN (Exodus 20:17)

Links to............

ROMANS 3:20 [20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN.

Once again Paul is in agreement with John and James which all agree together that if we break any of God's LAW (10 commandments) we commit SIN because as James, John and Paul all agree together that SIN is breaking ANY of God's 10 commandments.

So NBB all of the above is God's Word interpreting itself. Paul, James and John all agree that sin is breaking ANY ONE of the 10 Commandments. God's 4th commandment is to REMEMBER the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH TO KEEP IT HOLY (no work).


THOSE WHO TURN AWAY FROM GOD'S WORD OR CONTINUE IN KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN WILL NOT ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN

What does God's WORD say about those who turn away from his WORD to continue in KNOWN unrepentant sin?

2 PETER 2:1-22
[1], But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privately shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.
[2], And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
[3], And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingers not, and their damnation slumbers not.
[4], For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved to judgment;

[5], And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly;
[6], And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample to those that after should live ungodly;

[7], And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
[8], For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;

[9], The Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust to the day of judgment to be punished:

[10], But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, self-willed, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
[11], Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
[12], But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
[13], And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
[14], Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:

[15], WHICH HAVE FORSAKEN THE RIGHT WAY, AND ARE GONE ASTRAY, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

[16], But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbade the madness of the prophet.
[17], These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
[18], For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
[19], While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.

[20], FOR IT THEY HAVE ESCAPED THE POLLUTIONS OF THE WORLD THROUGH THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE LORD AND SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST, THEY ARE AGAIN ENTANGLED THEREIN AND OVERCOME, THE LATTER END IS WORSE THEN THE BEGGINING.

[21], FOR IT HAD BEEN BETTER FOR THEN NOT TO HAVE KNOWN THE WAY OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, THAN, AFTER THEY HAVE KNOWN IT, TO TURN FROM THE HOLY COMMANDMENT DELIEVERED UNTO THEM.

[22], But it is happened to them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Yep seems Peter thinks that you can know and follow God and then turn back from God to follow SIN and leave God....

HEBREWS 6:4-8
[4], FOR IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR THOSE WHO WERE ONCE ENLIGHTENED, AND HAVE TASTED OF THE HEAVENLY GIFT, AND WERE MADE PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST,
[5], AND HAVE TASTED OF THE GOOD WORD OF GOD, AND THE POWERS OF THE WORLD TO COME,
[6], IF THEY SHALL FALL AWAY, TO RENEW THEM AGAIN TO REPENTANCE; SEEING THEY CRUCITY TO THEMSELVES THE SON OF GOD AFREASH, AND PUT HIM TO OPEN SHAME.
[7], For the earth which drinks in the rain that comes oft on it, and brings forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receives blessing from God:
[8], But that which bears thorns and briers is rejected, and is near to cursing; whose end is to be burned.

links to....

HEBREWS 10:26-27
[26], FOR IT WE SIN WILLFULLY AFTER WE RECEIVE A KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH, THERE REMAINS NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SINS,
[27], BUT A FEARFUL LOOKING FORWARD FOR OF JUDGEMENT AND FIERY INDIGNATION, WHICH SHALL DEVOUR THE ADVERSARIES.
[28], He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
[29], OF HOW MUCH MORE SORER PUNISHMENT, SUPPOSE YOU, SHALL HE BE THOUGHT WORTHY, WHO HAS TRODDEN UNDER FOOT THE SON OF GOD, AND HAS COUNTED THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT WITH WHICH HE WAS SANCTIFIED AN UNHOLY THING AND HAS DONE DESPITE TO THE SPIRIT OF GRACE?
[30], For we know him that has said, Vengeance belongs to me, I will recompense, said the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
[31], IT IS A FEARFUL THING TO FALL INTO THE HANDS OF THE LIVING GOD.

Seems both PAUL and PETER agree together that you can KNOW GOd have a KNOWLEDGE of the TRUTH and fall away back into SIN.

ISAIAH 59:1-3
[1], Behold, the LORD's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
[2], BUT YOUR INIQUITIES HAVE SEPARATED BETWEEN YOU AND YOUR GOD, AND YOUR SINS HAVE HIS HIS FACE FROM YOU THAT HE WILL NOT HEAR.
[3], For your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with SIN; your lips have spoken lies, your tongue has muttered perverseness.

Seems Isaiah agrees with Peter and Paul that SIN can separate us from GOD.

EZEKIEL 3:17-21
[17], Son of man, I have made you a watchman to the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me.
[18], When I say to the wicked, You shall surely die; and you give him not warning, nor speak to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at your hand.
[19], Yet if you warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you have delivered your soul.
[20], AGAIN, WHEN A RIGHTEOUS MAN DOES TURN FROM HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS, AND COMMIT INIQUITY, AND I LAY A STUMBLING BLOCK BEFORE HIM, HE SHALL DIE IN HIS SIN, AND HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH HE HAS DONE SHALL NOT BE REMEMBERED; but his blood I will require from your hand.
[21], Nevertheless if you warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he does not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also you have delivered your soul.

Well there we have it Ezekial, Isaiah Peter and Paul all agree that you can know God and have a KNOWLEDGE of the TRUTH and fall away back into SIN.

JOSHUA 23:11-13
[11], Take good heed therefore to yourselves, that you love the LORD your God.
[12], ELSE IF YOU IN ANY WISE GO BACK TO JOIN TO THE REMNANNT OF THESE NATIONS, EVEN THESE THAT REMAIN AMONG YOU AND SHALL MAKE MARRIAGES WITH THEM AND GO IN UNTO THEM AND THEY TO YOU:
[13], KNOW FOR A CERTAINTY THAT THE LORD YOUR GOD WILL NO MORE DRIVE OUT THESE NATIONS FROM BEFORE YOU.; but they shall be snares and traps to you, and scourges in your sides, and thorns in your eyes, until you perish from off this good land which the LORD your God has given you.

Now Joshua is joining Ezekial, Isaiah Peter and Paul who all agree that you can know God and have a KNOWLEDGE of the TRUTH and fall away back into SIN.

NUMBERS 14:43
[43], For there the Amalekites and the Canaanites are facing you, and you shall fall by the sword. BECAUSE YOU HAVE TURNED BACK FROM FOLLOWING THE LORD, the Lord will not be with you.”

Now you can also add Moses to Joshua, Ezekial, Isaiah, Peter and Paul who all agree that you can know God and have a KNOWLEDGE of the TRUTH and fall away back into SIN.

JAMES 5:19
[19], My brothers, IF ANY AMONG YOU WANDERS FROM THE TRUTH AND SOMEONE BRINGS HIM BACK, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

Seems also James agrees with Moses, Joshua, Ezekial, Isaiah, Peter and Paul who all agree that you can know God and have a KNOWLEDGE of the TRUTH and fall away back into SIN.

JEREMIAH 3:8-14
[8], And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
[9], And it came to pass through the lightness of her prostitution, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks.
[10], And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah has not turned to me with her whole heart, but feignedly, said the LORD.
[11], And the LORD said to me, The backsliding Israel has justified herself more than treacherous Judah.
[12], Go, and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, RETURN FAITHLESS ISRAEL, declares the Lord. I will not look on you in anger, for I am merciful, declares the Lord; I will not be angry forever.
[13], Only acknowledge your iniquity, that you have transgressed against the LORD your God, and have scattered your ways to the strangers under every green tree, and you have not obeyed my voice, said the LORD.
[14], TURN O BACKSLIDING CHILDREN, said the LORD; for I am married to you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion.

Looks like we can add Jeremaiah to James, Moses, Joshua, Ezekial, Isaiah, Peter and Paul who all agree that you can know God and have a KNOWLEDGE of the TRUTH and fall away back into SIN.

JOEL 2:13 [13], And rend your hearts and not your garments. RETURN TO THE LORD YOUR GOD, for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love; and he relents over disaster.

Well here so far we have Joel, Jeremaiah, James, Moses, Joshua, Ezekial, Isaiah, Peter and Paul who all agree that you can know God and have a KNOWLEDGE of the TRUTH and fall away

...............

God knows that many do not know they are following man made traditions that break the commandments of God and they are doing so out of ignorance.

It is only because of his great love for us that he is calling us all back to his Word so that we can worship and follow him who calls us in love to love another.

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

Hope this helps
 
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LoveGodsWord

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You’re right. They’re not Moses’ laws. They’re God’s laws, even though they are often referred to as the laws of Moses. Moses got them from God.

I think this is the problem for many. They do not understand that the OLD COVENANT includes both the law of God (10 commandments) and the MOSAIC laws for remission of sin which are the shadow laws from the BOOK of the COVENANT that are fulfilled in Christ.

Appreciate your thoughts.
 
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I think this is the problem for many. They do not understand that the OLD COVENANT includes both the law of God (10 commandments) and the MOSAIC laws for remission of sin which are the shadow laws from the BOOK of the COVENANT that are fulfilled in Christ.

This is pretty ridiculous. It's all one law. Fornication isn't in the 10 commandments, but no fornicator will inherit the kingdom of GOD.
 
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This is pretty ridiculous. It's all one law. Fornication isn't in the 10 commandments, but no fornicator will inherit the kingdom of GOD.

How is what you are quoting from ridiculous? Is fornication a Masaic law for remission of sin? With all respect intended, perhaps you should read what your replyng to before posting.
 
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How is what you are quoting from ridiculous? Is fornication a Masaic law for remission of sin? Perhaps you should read what your posting first before replying.

Fornication was not allowed in the law, but it's not in the 10 commandments. Yet fornication is just as serious a sin as adultery is. So to divide the law into the 10 commandments and the rest for remission of sin is ridiculous.
 
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Fornication was not allowed in the law, but it's not in the 10 commandments. Yet fornication is just as serious a sin as adultery is. So to divide the law into the 10 commandments and the rest for remission of sin is ridiculous.

What has all this have to do with the Mosaic laws for remission of sin which is what you were posting from? These are clearly outlined in the MOSAIC book of the Covenant which along with God's LAW (10 commandments) make up the OLD COVENANT.
 
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What has all this have to do with the Mosaic laws for remission of sin which is what you were posting from? These are clearly outlined in the MOSAIC book of the Covenant which along with God's LAW (10 commandments) make up the OLD COVENANT.

First, there were no laws in the law of Moses for the remission of sin. There were laws for atonement, i.e., covering sin.

Second, you're the one who divided the law of Moses into the 10 commandments and shadow laws that in your mind didn't demand righteous conduct like the 10 commandments did. That's patently false. Sodomy is another example of prohibited behavior that is not in the 10 commandments. Abortion another... the list goes on and on.
 
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First, there were no laws in the law of Moses for the remission of sin. There were laws for atonement, i.e., covering sin.
Stop playing on words you know exactly what I am referring to. What are the laws in realation to animal sacrifices and sin offerings? What are the laws in relation to the Levitical priest hood and the Sanctuary services? Atonement is remission (forgiveness) of sin.
Second, you're the one who divided the law of Moses into the 10 commandments and shadow laws that in your mind didn't demand righteous conduct like the 10 commandments did. That's patently false. Sodomy is another example of prohibited behavior that is not in the 10 commandments. Abortion another... the list goes on and on.
No! Your the one who said started talking about fornication in response to a post talking about the shadow laws for remission of sin under the Old Covenant not me. Now your trying to build a strawman that is not even being discussed.
 
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Stop playing on words you know exactly what I am referring to. What are the laws in realation to animal sacrifices and sin offerings? What are the laws in relation to the Levitical priest hood and the Sanctuary services? Atonement is remission (forgiveness) of sin.

That was merely an informative aside. I should have made that clearer.
 
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No! Your the one who said started talking about fornication in response to a post talking about the shadow laws for remission of sin under the Old Covenant not me. Now your trying to build a strawman that is not even being discussed.

OK, but it's not a strawman. I'm not clear on what you're trying to say by the division of the law into two parts: the 10 commandments and so-called shadow laws. There's more to the law than that.
 
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OK, but it's not a strawman. I'm not clear on what you're trying to say by the division of the law into two parts: the 10 commandments and so-called shadow laws. There's more to the law than that.

The 10 Commandments are not shadow laws these are God's ETERNAL laws. Your mixing up the shadow laws for remission of sin that pointed to Jesus with God's ETERNAL LAW (10 Commandments) that give us a knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; James 2:8-11; 1 John 3:4).

GODS ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) ARE FOREVER

The Law of God (10 commandments) which includes the 4th commandment is the work of God (Exodus 32:16) whatsoever God does is forever nothing can be added to it or taken away (Ecclesiastes 3:14). God's Law is perfect converting the soul (Psalms 19:7). It is the very standard of the Old and New Covenants (Exodus 20:1:17, Hebrews 8:10-12).

God's Law was spoken by God himself to His people (Exodus 20:1-22). Jesus says Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away (Matthew 25:35). Gods Law is still in force today (Psalms 111:7-8, Revelation 12:17, 14:12, 22:14, 1 John 3:5-8, 1 John 2:3-4 etc.). The Law of God reveals sin to us so we can see ourselves as we truly are sinners in need of a Saviour (Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4).

It is the great standard of the judgement (Ecclesiastes 12:13-14, James 2:10-12, 1 John 3:4, Acts 17:31). God's Law is our teacher revealing sin and the character of God and brings us to Christ at the foot of the cross that we might be saved by faith by Him who loves us and washed us in His own blood (Galatians 3:24; Revelation 1:5). Jesus came not to abolish the law, but to fulfil it (Matthew 5:17-20 ).

The law is the embodiment of truth that instructs ( Romans 2:18-19 ). It is "holy" and "spiritual, " making sin known to us by defining it; therefore, Paul delights in it ( Romans 7:7-14Romans 7:22). The law is good if used properly (1 Tim 1:8 ), and is not opposed to the promises of God ( Galatians 3:21 ).

Faith does not make the law void, but the Christian establishes the law (Romans 3:31), fulfilling its requirements by walking according to the Spirit (Romans 8:4) through love (Romans 13:10).

You cannot know the power of God or the Gospel of Grace without the 10 commandments. If there is NO LAW then you do not know what SIN is (James 2:11; Romans 7:7; Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4).

If you do not know what SIN is you have NO need of a Savior. If you have NO need of a Savior you have NO Salvation. If you have NO Salvation you are LOST because it is written.

Romans 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law.

Do we need more scripture CLICK ME?

God's 10 Commandments are not shadow laws they give us a knowledge of what sin is and are the very standard in the OLD and NEW COVENANTS and the judgment to come.

Hope this helps.
 
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The 10 Commandments are not shadow laws these are God's ETERNAL laws. Your mixing up the shadow laws for remission of sin that pointed to Jesus with God's ETERNAL LAW (10 Commandments) that give us a knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; James 2:8-11; 1 John 3:4).

The 10 commandments do not give the knowledge that fornication and sodomy are sins. So you're correct. They give us A knowledge of what some sin is, but they do not give us the comprehensive knowledge of what sin is. And in reality, not even the whole law does that.
 
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