Boyfriend thinks everything I wear is sleazy?

LovebirdsFlying said:

If he's this controlling before marriage, he will become even more controlling afterward. I speak from experience. My advice is to run. Far and fast.

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Well said.

Tropical Wilds said:

The Bible makes pretty clear that if you are abusive, you’re in direct conflict with God and if you are being abused, you need to seperate yourself from the abuser and seek help. God doesn’t command people to be victimized to honor him or his word.

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Exactly. When someone encourages someone to stay in an abusive relationship it makes my blood boil; it’s despicable.

I've always dressed modestly rather than provocatively. My husband NEVER told me what to wear. I don't want someone who claims to love me to think it's his job to correct me. The Bible tells women to dress modestly; if the woman rebels against the Bible, not his interpretation of it, her boyfriend should should find another woman.

A lot of terrible things happen to women who marry controlling men. After they marry, the man knows he can exert more control. When a woman thinks she loves or does love a man, she doesn't want to heed the warnings. Later it's too late. He can make sure she has no way out.

David_AB said:

I think it was Paul Washer that said, if what the other person is wearing draws your eyes away from their face to another part of their body then that means they are dressed sensually.

Unless of course they are wearing big red clowns shoes.

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There still is a whole level of self-awareness and control that kicks in when this occurs though.

For example, last week I was at a fair with a group of friends. We all waited in front of the funhouse, which was your generic funhouse, with wiggly boards to walk on, chains hanging off the ceiling you had to weave through, and a mega fan on the ground, blowing up.

There wasn’t a single person who saw the two teenage girls wearing breezy peasant skirts with the flowy short hemmed tops bopping and weaving through their way to the floor fans who didn’t know what was going to happen once they got to the fans. And when they hit the fans, the thing we all knew would happen happened.

Now, the response from the men in the crowd could be broken down into 3 distinct groups:

1. The group who stared, popcorn in hand, waiting for the show. Many of them had been there for awhile hoping for various wardrobe fails, kind of like the weirdos who sit at the bottom of water slides hoping for a nip slip or an atomic wedgie.

2. The group who wasn’t anxious to see it, but still watched. Maybe it was to see if they were able to get through gracefully (they didn’t) or maybe it is for the same reason we look at car accidents even when we don’t want to.

3. The group who looked at their feet, the sky, their phones, or anything that wasn’t these girls.

Were these girls especially immodest? Their skirts certainly weren’t, and their tops were maybe just below the navel... You could see some midriff as they moved, but not a lot. The people who’s eyes were drawn away from their face to their exposure weren’t drawn there because these girls encouraged it. There is a fundamental etiquette and respect component that wasn’t clicking, for whatever reason.

The idea that these women or a majority of women dress as they do because they want to be leered at comes from the same place as those who looked at these girls out of apathy (at best) or lewdness (at worst). Women simply don’t get up and dress in a way that encourages disrespectful behavior. Women dress as they dress, they are in no control over the responses they get and they will attract people without boundaries regardless.

About a month ago I was blatantly sexually harassed repeatedly by a guy at a store. I was wearing a generic sleeveless tunic dress with high neckline (above my collarbone) and a hemline an inch or two above my knee, a sheer kimono jacket, and Capri leggings that were mid-shin in length. I was with my parents and my 8 year old. What got him staring, elicited rude comments, and had him following me through the store all irked that I was being a female dog for ignoring him because he was “just being nice?” My red hair. The hair that I hadn’t washed in like 4 days and was in last night’s ponytail. In the 20 years I’ve been dying my hair fire red, not once have I ever said “I hope this gets me followed around Walmart by a weirdo” or even “I hope men like this.” Not even when I was single.

LovebirdsFlying said:

If he's this controlling before marriage, he will become even more controlling afterward. I speak from experience. My advice is to run. Far and fast.

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We can't be certain in this case exactly . . . . perhaps the boyfriend was raised very very strict, for example, and is just responding to the things he was taught. Sometimes that happens to the nicest of people. Or he could be over controlling. Our poster needs to discern, for herself, what his case actually is.

Lucian Hodoboc said:

Yeah, and God is an unchanging, atemporal being Who hasn't released a new covenant that adapts to the modern social norms, as far as I'm aware. What does being 18 have to do with anything? Mary had already given birth to Jesus by the time she was 18, and she was dressing modestly.

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Because young women my age dont choose to live like women in 20AD. Times have changed. The way we dress and the choices we have including to marry later, and have children later. The norms of today's society are very different to those times thankfully.

Deniz said:

I think it's important to ask yourself before giving advice, "am I helping someone and their relationship in the Lord with my post, or am I posting personal opinions/earthly wisdom for personal reasons?"

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From what Ive read in Christian Forum its pretty much peoples opinions based on a mixture of personal experiences, knowledge on the topic and their view of whatever spiritual paradigm they hold to. If this is an area you struggle with you needn't worry. I shall not be critical of you just for having an opinion, though I may not agree with it.

As for the advice I personally provided - it was awesome

Inkfingers said:

You have a really bizarre idea of what 'one flesh' actually is. If one of your believes one thing, and the other believes something else, on the subject matter of faith, then I beg to disagree on the use of "marriage" to define that relationship.

And if that seems overly personal, don't use yourself as an example in arguments.

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What I find bizarre is that you believe you have a monopoly on the bible and the norms that spill from it. How fortunate God has someone here that is the only one who understands how a marriage works.

Kazzy0614 said:

So my boyfriend and I. We both believe in no sex before marriage. Me growing up, I was taught there was no problem with light kissing, or wearing bathing suits etc. My boyfriend however, thinks that there should be absolutely zero kissing before marriage (even though he's kissed a girl before... he regrets it) so I was like okay that's great! Less temptation for sex. I'm fine with waiting. But he also has a problem with v-necked tops (even high ones) anything off the shoulder, leg showing above the knee, midriff, bathing suits, ripped jeans or anything. He immediately hates it. I used to wear all of that stuff until we got together. Now I'm afraid to or I fear he will leave me. I love him so much and I want to spend the rest of my life with him, but I'm constantly self conscious about "oh no can he see my collarbones in this top" and I don't even feel pretty anymore... Advice?

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First off, you are living in fear he is going to leave you over you having a v-neck shirt that shows nothing.....

Then you need to carefully consider what you are doing. Any relationship based on fear of doing something that will cause the other person to leave, will eventually fail. Why? Because it inherently puts stress on the other person until they snap. Is this the kind of relationship you want to be in where you are constantly worried that something you do will cause the other person to leave? I will assure you, you don't.

Second, also need to carefully consider if you want to be a different person than who you are. You are telling me that you like and enjoy a certain style of dress.... and no you are changing who you want to be, just to keep this guy around. How long do you think you are going to keep that up?

My advice for any relationship is, don't pretend to be someone you are not, just to keep the relationship together.

Life is hard enough, when you are not trying to fit yourself into some other person's mold of who you should be.

Because when you break that mold, he's going to be ticked. He's going to say to you that you never dressed like that when you were dating, and now after you are married, you are dressing differently.

He's going to believe that you deceived him. You tricked him into thinking you were not the type of person to dress that way, because right now you are dressing the way he wants.

My advice, don't dress to fit him. If he doesn't like you, because you dress a certain way... then dump him and find someone who likes who you are, not who they think you ought to be.

Now that's assuming you actually want to dress differently. If you don't, and you are ok with it, then go for it.

But that isn't what you are saying, you are saying you don't feel secure, or that you are pretty.

Dump him. Find someone who likes who you are, not who they want you to be.

Invalidusername said:

There are certain clothes that are much more enticing than others. Don't equate a burlap sack with an outfit that has breasts hanging out and camel toes.

I know you think because it's 2018 it means the standards of what is actually modest has changed. However that is false because men are still attracted to the same things. Modesty is also to avoid vanity.

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You know who gives a fig what men think - Its about time all you men grew up. If men are so pathetic that they cant control themselves well that's your genders issue. Women will wear what they want. This is a sweet 18yo and your carrying on talking about breasts hanging out.

If you lot had your way she'd be dressed in Purdah and subservient to a boy shes not even engaged to.

Lucian Hodoboc said:

The less temptation you may cause through the way you dress, the better. It's not only about abstaining from sex before marriage. It's also about trying to avoid lustful thoughts, and men are usually more prone to get aroused by looking at parts of the female body that women would not get aroused by if they looked at men (such as the thighs, the shoulders etc.). Also, from the clothes you mentioned, I don't think that ripped jeans and midriff are appropriate for a Christian girl.

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You really do paint a picture of men being totally immature and incapable of self control. You also paint a picture that its the woman's responsibility for the guys' incapacity to deal with his thoughts.

I'd say shes free to wear what makes her feel good about herself and men should get over themselves. Men demanding what women wear is just selfishness!

Zoii said:

You know who gives a fig what men think - Its about time all you men grew up. If men are so pathetic that they cant control themselves well that's your genders issue. Women will wear what they want. This is a sweet 18yo and your carrying on talking about breasts hanging out.

If you lot had your way she'd be dressed in Purdah and subservient to a boy shes not even engaged to.

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You women have plenty of gender issues so if we started having that attitude towards you and your gender, there would be a huge public outrage. This is why men no longer value women. Just putting this out there for you. And yes you do give a "fig". Your immaturity is what I've come to expect from this forum.

Invalidusername said:

This is why men no longer value women. Just putting this out there for you. And yes you do give a "fig". Your immaturity is what I've come to expect from this forum.

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The fact you do not value women is coming through and what drove my point home.

As for my maturity - well its you who is spitting the dummy at teenagers so - there's that.

Zoii said:

The fact you do not value women is coming through and what drove my point home.

As for my maturity - well its you who is spitting the dummy at teenagers so - there's that.

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I said MEN do not value women. I never said I don't but your attitude towards men turned me off from you specifically since I know your type.

Invalidusername said:

I said MEN do not value women. I never said I don't but your attitude towards men turned me off from you specifically since I know your type.

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Oh well as long as you value women then we have reached a happy point.
As for you not being turned on by me - yayyyyyyyyy!!!!!! thank goodness.

Folks, a gentle reminder to please keep the focus on helping the OP, and not personal comments about one another... this is the Christian Advice forum, after all.

Zoii said:

Wow
She's 18 n not living in 1920. It's 100 years later.

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The thing about God and His holiness, is that He doesn't change. And though He may have different plans for different people throughout time, His core ideal moral principals for us never change.

If in the year 2118 it's common to see women walking down the street naked in the summer time, will that be ok for Christians?

It's interesting, time and again Jesus and His apostles use the creation account or very old faith figures like Abraham to prove points to the 1st century Christian church. One of the reasons for this is to remove the false belief that one's immediate society has much (if any) bearing on how to live right with God.
In Matthew 19, Jesus corrects the Jews' understanding of marriage and divorce by reinforcing what God's original ideal was in Genesis.

Matthew 19:7-9
"7 They *said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to give her a certificate of divorce and send her away?” 8 He [Jesus] said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way. 9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

Jesus is basically saying "it doesn't matter what the norm is now...what God said ~4,000 yrs ago still stands.

The New Testament contains teachings that are equally applicable today as they were in the 1st century. Who do we think we are to modify God's word? If we do, we are trying to act like God.

Kazzy0614 said:

So my boyfriend and I. We both believe in no sex before marriage. Me growing up, I was taught there was no problem with light kissing, or wearing bathing suits etc. My boyfriend however, thinks that there should be absolutely zero kissing before marriage (even though he's kissed a girl before... he regrets it) so I was like okay that's great! Less temptation for sex. I'm fine with waiting. But he also has a problem with v-necked tops (even high ones) anything off the shoulder, leg showing above the knee, midriff, bathing suits, ripped jeans or anything. He immediately hates it. I used to wear all of that stuff until we got together. Now I'm afraid to or I fear he will leave me. I love him so much and I want to spend the rest of my life with him, but I'm constantly self conscious about "oh no can he see my collarbones in this top" and I don't even feel pretty anymore... Advice?

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I must be the only one who doesn't think that refraining from legs showing above the knee, midriff, and bathing suits is that bad (although there are better ones these days that can help you look more demure). I think it's nice and proper for a Christian girl to stop wearing those kinds of materials. As far as the ripped jeans goes, I don't think the rips in and of themselves are a problem, but I don't know how the jeans look otherwise when they're worn. The V-necked tops are just fine to me though. But I also think that he's being too controlling of you too. He shouldn't be micromanaging everything you do with your attire. I don't think he's a good person for you. If he's this bad before marriage, it will only get worse after marriage.

I don't see a problem with bathing suits. I don't want to roast when it's hot out.

By definition, modesty is a fluid definition. What’s modest to me is immodest to somebody else. The Duggars look at me in pants and deem me immodest. The Amish look at the Duggars and think they’re immodest. There an entire region of the world who looks at the Amish with their facial hair and long-haired women and deems them immodest. In turn, others look at those who are covered from head-to-toe save for their eyes and find their modesty to be so different from the norm that they stand out, making them immodest for getting so much attention for being modest.

The general rule in all things is in anything we do, there will always be a group of people ready to tell you that whatever you’re doing is wrong. If you spend your whole life trying to meet with everybody’s approval or every person’s version of God’s approval, you will be a hot mess.