3 1/2 years...

jgr

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Yes, both Israel and the Jews still have a future in the divine plan, but Israel and the Jews will be defined by the authoritative word of God, not by man, which is if they are IN CHRIST! Not because of their nationality.

Since Israel is in all of us, and there is no longer any genetically distinguishable subset of Israel or Jew; then the only distinction is between those who are true believers of faith and obedience; and those who are not.

The former have a glorious future in the divine plan.

The latter do not.
 
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keras

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They are the SOULS of Christians who died MARTYRS wearing WHITE ROBES that John saw before the Throne of God in Heaven In Revelation 7:9….as those SOULS wearing white robes that John saw under the altar mentioned in Revelation 6:9-11
Can souls wave palm branches?
No; I reject your belief, because they are the vast multitude of living Christians, who have called out to the Lord in the just happened Sixth Seal disaster. Revelation 6:12-17 They, we, will all gather in all of the holy land, as many prophesies tell us. Psalms 107:1-3, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 35:1-10
We see them later, in the holy Land; Daniel 7:25, Revelation 13:7
 
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Riberra

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Can souls wave palm branches?
No;
Can SOULS of those who will be beheaded because they will refuse to worship the Beast and will refuse to take the mark during the 42 months reign of the Beast are cited to play harps of God in Heaven ?...Yes !
Revelation 15:1-2
1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having seven plagues, [which are] the last, for in them is finished the wrath of God.

2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire; and them that come off victorious from the beast, and from his image, and from the number of his name, standing by the sea of glass, having harps of God.

I reject your belief, because they are the vast multitude of living Christians, who have called out to the Lord in the just happened Sixth Seal disaster. Revelation 6:12-17 They, we, will all gather in all of the holy land, as many prophesies tell us. Psalms 107:1-3, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 35:1-10
We see them later, in the holy Land; Daniel 7:25, Revelation 13:7
Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 13:7 are proving my point....This is talking about Christians who will have the misfortune to be alive on the Earth during the 42 months [3 1/2 years] reign of the Beast
Daniel 7:25
25 And he shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High; and he shall think to change the times and the law; and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and half a time.-- [3 1/2 years]

Revelation 13:7
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and there was given to him authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation.

Beulah will be the name of the Land of Israel during the Millennium...where the RESURRECTED SAINTS will be living with Jesus Revelation 20:4-6...[The CAMP of the SAINTS Revelation 20:9]

As you surely known ,the Millennium will start at the Second Coming of Jesus when Satan will be locked into the bottomless pit for 1,000 years...Revelation 20.
 
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keras

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Can SOULS of those who will be beheaded because they will refuse to worship the Beast and will refuse to take the mark during the 42 months reign of the Beast are cited to play harps of God in Heaven ?...Yes !
Revelation 15:1-2
Good point, but the people seen in Revelation 7:9-14 are living people, on earth. Nowhere does that chapter say anything about heaven, in fact the first 3 verses set an earthly scene and there is no change of location. mentioned.
Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 13:7 are proving my point....This is talking about Christians who will have the misfortune to be alive on the Earth during the 42 months [3 1/2 years] reign of the Beast
It is very unlikely that any currently secular people, will convert to Christianity just before or during the last 3 1/2 years. Revelation 13:3-4 says the whole world will admire the 'beast'.
 
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BABerean2

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Good point, but the people seen in Revelation 7:9-14 are living people, on earth. Nowhere does that chapter say anything about heaven, in fact the first 3 verses set an earthly scene and there is no change of location. mentioned.

The presence of "angels" and "elders" and "the four beasts" show the scenes below to be in heaven.


Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
Rev 7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
Rev 7:11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 7:12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Rev 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
Rev 7:16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
Rev 7:17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

..............................................................

Rev_4:6 And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.

Rev_4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

Rev_5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

Rev_5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

Rev_5:14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.

Rev_6:1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

.
 
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Riberra

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Good point, but the people seen in Revelation 7:9-14 are living people, on earth. Nowhere does that chapter say anything about heaven,
The group to large to number wearing WHITE ROBES are seen BEFORE The Throne of God ...
As pointed out by BAB
The presence of "angels" and "elders" and "the four beasts" show the scene described in Revelation 7:9-14 to be in Heaven ..
It is very unlikely that any currently secular people, will convert to Christianity just before or during the last 3 1/2 years. Revelation 13:3-4 says the whole world will admire the 'beast'.
All those whose names hath not been written in the Book of Life of The Lamb will worship the Beast and will take the mark of the Beast AC to save their life...
Revelation 13:8-9
8 And all that dwell on the earth shall worship him, [every one] whose name hath not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb that hath been slain.

9 If any man hath an ear, let him hear.
 
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keras

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The presence of "angels" and "elders" and "the four beasts" show the scenes below to be in heaven.
That premise is not necessarily the case.
Heaven is a Spiritual concept, your thinking of heaven is the childish one of it being like a physical place above the sky. God's Throne and the chariots of God, etc, can be seen on the earth, as many Bible verses tell us.

Your denial of the people seen in Revelation 7:9, being on earth, specifically in Jerusalem; conflicts with all the prophesies that tell us how the faithful people of God will dwell in peace and prosperity in all of the holy Land, being His witnesses and His Light to the nations.
This will and must happen, or the great Plan of God for humankind will have failed.
 
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Riberra

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the prophesies that tell us how the faithful people of God will dwell in peace and prosperity in all of the holy Land, being His witnesses and His Light to the nations.
This will and must happen, or the great Plan of God for humankind will have failed.
That will happen during the Millennium... Revelation 20:4-6 is all about those who will be RESURRECTED to live with Jesus in the Holy Land...NOTE that if you are still alive UNTO THE COMING OF JESUS and you have NOT taken the mark and have NOT worshiped the Beast AC and his image , you will be part of it
 
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BABerean2

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That premise is not necessarily the case.
Heaven is a Spiritual concept, your thinking of heaven is the childish one of it being like a physical place above the sky. God's Throne and the chariots of God, etc, can be seen on the earth, as many Bible verses tell us.

Then where is Jesus Christ at this moment?

.
 
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keras

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That will happen during the Millennium.
These scriptures refute you:
Psalms 60:1-5 You have been displeased and rejected us, now restore us, we pray. You have shaken the Land, it is barren and desolate. Your people are punished, but to those who love and obey You, You have raised a signal, to which they may escape. Save us and help us with Your strong Right Hand, deliver those whom You love.

Acts 3:19-24 Repent, therefore and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out. Then the Lord may grant you a time of recovery.

2 Samuel 7:10-11 I shall place My people, in their own Land and give them peace.
Jeremiah 33:6 & 25 I shall restore the Land. My people will live there. They will shout: “Praise the Lord of hosts, for the Lord is good, His love endures forever”.

Isaiah 32:15-20 A spirit from on high will fall upon them. Happy are His people, living in peace and security.
Isaiah 49:8 I have destined you to be a light to all peoples. On the Day of your deliverance, I came to your aid and restored the Land.
Isaiah 58:11-12 The Lord will be your guide constantly. He will satisfy your needs and you will be called; the restorer of ruins.

Isaiah 31:2-3 & 28 A people that escaped from the sword, found favor, from afar, He appeared to them. I shall watch over them, to build and plant.
Jeremiah 4:1-2 Israel, come back to Me, then the nations will pray to be blessed like you.
Jeremiah 23:3-4I will bring My sheep back to the Land. I will appoint shepherds to tend them

Ezekiel 34:27 When I rescue My people, they will know that I am the Lord.
Ezekiel 36:8-18 I will settle My people in the Land, Thus they will acknowledge Me as Lord.
Ezekiel 38:8 The Land restored from ruin. My people, gathered and settled there.
Ezekiel 39:27 They will exemplify My holiness for all peoples to see.

Psalms 12:1 The Lord will arise, for His people are oppressed. They will live in safety.
Psalms 29:11 The Lord will give strength to His people and bless them with peace.
Psalms 37:9 For evildoers will be destroyed, while those who trust in the Lord will enjoy prosperity in the Land.

Psalms 69:35-36 God will deliver Zion, His people will possess it and settle there. Those who serve Him and love His Name, will live there.
Psalms 80:19 Restore us, O God, grant us new life and we shall invoke You by name.
Psalms 85:1-3 Lord, You have blessed Your Land.... and turned Your anger away from us.
Psalms 107:1-3 Let those redeemed by the Lord, give thanks, His people, gathered from around the world.
Psalms 147:14 The Lord has brought peace and plenty to His Land.

The Lord's faithful people will go to live in all of the holy Land BEFORE Jesus Returns. Proved by the 26 times in Ezekiel where we are told that when we experience the Lord's Blessings to us, THEN we will know that He is with us; spiritually.
 
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Riberra

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These scriptures refute you:
Psalms 37:9 For evildoers will be destroyed, while those who trust in the Lord will enjoy prosperity in the Land.

Tell us to which time refers For evildoers will be destroyed,
if not when Jesus will return Revelation 19 ?
…..The Lord's faithful people will go to live in all of the holy Land BEFORE Jesus Returns.

Psalms 37:9 refute you...evildoers will be destroyed by God BEFORE we go live into the Holy Land.
 
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keras

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Then where is Jesus Christ at this moment?
Jesus is where He said He would be. Matthew 28:20 Spiritually among His people.
It is only those fooled by the 'rapture to heaven' deception, that must have the people seen in Revelation 7:9, in heaven. The Bible doesn't say they are in heaven, so to say they are, is to promote a false theory.
We are told that they are those who have survived the great ordeal, Revelation 7:14, obviously referring to the just happened Sixth Seal event. They stood firm in their faith and called out to the Lord for protection during that Day of trial. 1 Peter 4:12, Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21
 
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keras

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Tell us to which time refers For evildoers will be destroyed,
if not when Jesus will return Revelation 19?
The Sixth Seal worldwide disaster, the next prophesied event we can expect. Revelation 6:12-17, Isaiah 66:15-17, 2 Peter 3:7 and 100 + other prophesies.
Jesus does not burn the world when He Returns. Just destroys the armies of the AC by the Sword of His Word.

I re-read Psalms 37.
Psalms 37:34 Wait for the Lord and hold onto His ways. He will exalt you to inherit the Land, when the wicked are destroyed, you will see it.
My case is well proved, you need to prove your unbiblical idea that we Christians don't go to live in the holy Land before Jesus Returns. Just your opinion is useless.
 
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Riberra

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We are told that they are those who have survived the great ordeal, Revelation 7:14, obviously referring to the just happened Sixth Seal event. They stood firm in their faith and called out to the Lord for protection during that Day of trial. 1 Peter 4:12, Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21
It is said that they came out of GREAT TRIBULATION `-KJV-
They have died martyrs for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God like those wearing white robes mentioned at the opening of the 5 th seal...
 
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Riberra

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The Sixth Seal worldwide disaster, the next prophesied event we can expect. Revelation 6:12-17,
Are you saying that ALL THE EVILDOERS will be DESTROYED at the 6TH Seal ?

Psalms 37:9 For evildoers will be destroyed, while those who trust in the Lord will enjoy prosperity in the Land.
 
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keras

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It is said that they came out of GREAT TRIBULATION `-KJV-
Even the KJV doesn't capitalize great tribulation. So for you to do so is unbiblical and false.
Revelation 7:14 is before the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls of the actual Great Tribulation.

Obviously, unless another agenda is being promoted; it is the Sixth Seal disaster that verse 14 is referring to.
They have died martyrs for their testimony of Jesus
Nowhere does it say they died. You made that up, shame on you.
Are you saying that ALL THE EVILDOERS will be DESTROYED at the 6TH Seal ?
No; and neither does the scriptures.
From the prophesies about the terrible Day of the Lord's wrath, the Sixth Seal; it will be mostly people in the Middle east area who will be killed. Ezekiel 30:1-5, Zephaniah 2:4-5, Amos 1:1-15 & 2:1-5

Why is it so hard to believe that those who trust in the Lord will inherit the Land? Ephesians 3:6
 
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BABerean2

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Jesus is where He said He would be. Matthew 28:20 Spiritually among His people.
It is only those fooled by the 'rapture to heaven' deception, that must have the people seen in Revelation 7:9, in heaven. The Bible doesn't say they are in heaven, so to say they are, is to promote a false theory.
We are told that they are those who have survived the great ordeal, Revelation 7:14, obviously referring to the just happened Sixth Seal event. They stood firm in their faith and called out to the Lord for protection during that Day of trial. 1 Peter 4:12, Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21

Are you trying to say that Jesus Christ is not now in a place called heaven?

Are you saying that the souls of the dead in Christ are not now in that same place?


1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:



.
 
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Riberra

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Even the KJV doesn't capitalize great tribulation. So for you to do so is unbiblical and false.

We are told that they are those who have SURVIVED the great ordeal, Revelation 7:14,
I have capitalized great tribulation because the KJV does not write ''the'' great tribulation
The KJV say that they came out of great tribulation, not that they came out of ''the'' great tribulation.


Revelation 7:14 King James Version (KJV)

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.


What tribulation can be greater than being tortured to death because of their testimony of Jesus ...like the SOULS of the EARLY Christians martyrs wearing WHITE ROBES mentioned at the 5 Th seal in Revelation 6:9-11 ?
 
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keras

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14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Revelation 7:14 ...they are those who have passed through the great ordeal, they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Revised English Bible.
This verse is not talking about the general persecution of Christians, it refers to a separate, single event; the one that just precedes this gathering of all the faithful Christians. The Sixth Seal world changer.

Revelation 7:15-17, is a prophecy about Eternity, what happens after the Millennium. Proved by how it is only then that God will wipe evert tear from their eyes. Revelation 21:4
 
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keras

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Are you trying to say that Jesus Christ is not now in a place called heaven?

Are you saying that the souls of the dead in Christ are not now in that same place?
Jesus went to heaven, Acts 1:11, but He promised to be with His people spiritually until He comes back physically.

When a person dies, their soul returns to the One who made it. They know nothing until they stand with all the rest of everyone who has ever lived at the Great White Throne Judgement.
When Jesus Returns, He will bring with His only the souls of those killed during the GT. They will be brought back to life. Revelation 20:4
If you can present scriptures that contradict these truths, do so, otherwise please keep your opinions [and videos] to yourself.
 
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