Jonah and the Whale

Chinchilla said:

It is not , the punishment for unbeliev was that he did no perform more miracles / signs for them but in his mercy he gave them last one sign/miracle and that was the Jonah prophecy .

Jesus always asked people if they believed that he is able to do it ( heal blindness for example ) or said that because you believed your faith healed you. He did not perform miracles when people did not believe in him.

Matthew 13:58

Jews were punished for murder because they murdered innocent person well the Son of God on top of that .

Click to expand...

See there's a disobedience/punishment situation here.


Disobedience

Evil and adulterous generation keeps asking for signs.


Punishment

The sign of Jonah will be given to Israel.


Question

Why was it a punishment?
....

Wordkeeper said:

Why is the resurrection a rebuke, an indictment, a cutting away, of Israel?

Click to expand...

Who said it was?

gordonhooker said:

Who said it was?

Click to expand...

You think Jesus would give Israel cookies for being an evil and adulterous generation?

I'm not so sure the sign of Jonah was a punishment. It was just the extent to which the Lord would reveal himself to Israel at that time. Once Jesus resurrected, the Jews who heard him preach about Jonah would have the opportunity to believe in him.

Wordkeeper said:

So why is the resurrection a punishment for Israel?

Click to expand...

Israel, especially the religious leaders, did not believe He was who He said He was, the Son of God. They kept asking for a sign, even though He had done many. So, He said one last sign. So unbelieving Israel fell from grace.

Wordkeeper said:

You think Jesus would give Israel cookies for being an evil and adulterous generation?

Click to expand...

I have absolutely know idea what you are going on about - you seem to be pulling random one liners out of the air and responding to peoples posts with them. If you are going to reply directly to a persons post you may want to provide some context.

Sorry . .. I am not following your original logic. You cited a story showing that Bartley survived 2 days in the belly of a whale. Why then do you believe that 3 days would be impossible?

BTW, Bartley was reported to be stark raving mad after his experience. But still alive.

Neither the Bible, nor the account of Bartley, give the details about the whale. Possibly the whale swam on the surface the whole time. No-one knows. But this does not change the remarkable series of events.

Jesus does refer to Jonah, when speaking about 3 days. But I dont conclude that Jesus is saying that Jonah was dead and resurrected. It is equally possible that Jonah never died. We just dont know.

Blessings!!

gordonhooker said:

I have absolutely know idea what you are going on about - you seem to be pulling random one liners out of the air and responding to peoples posts with them. If you are going to reply directly to a persons post you may want to provide some context.

Click to expand...

People are surprised when they study the Bible to find that it works at so many levels. Of course it requires a bit of digging to unpack all those details and it is no different here.

There are two important points to remember in this passage.

The first is that Israel is not just positioned to be saved from hell, it is being saved in order to be a blessing to the world, a huge privilege.

The second is that when a sign is given, it is normally given to only Israel, the children of God, not to dogs, Gentiles.

So when Jesus mentions Jonah, it is a prickly point for the Jews. The signs were being given to dogs by God there.

Signs are encouragement to follow God, showing His ability to lead into rest, completion, becoming blessings to the world. Israel was fed from the Rock, was shown Godś ability to carry her to her final destination, rest, becoming blessings to the world.

We ought to multi task. Multitasking is walking and chewing gum at the same time. It´s easy but we often forget to do that when we read the Bible without remembering the previous material. It´s like when you tell the child, ¨Ï want you to chew gum and walk at the same time. Start. Hey! You're walking but you forgot to chew!¨

Similarly, when we read the Bible, we have to remember the previous teachings. Joshua finally led Israel into the Promised Land, but hey! What about the promise to Abraham, about being blessing to the world? What did retrieving Israel out of Egypt and depositing her in the Promised land have to do with the promise to Abraham? If you don't ask this question, you're like the child who forgot to chew gum. It's necessary to keep all the balls in the air, else you're missing out on the message. David realised this when he said:

Psalm 95:7
For He is our God, and we are the people of His pasture, the sheep under His care. Today, if you hear His voice,

If Joshua had led Israel to becoming the blessing to the world, God would not have spoken later about another day.

This explains why Jonah disobeyed God. God was warning Nineveh. God would confirm His message with a sign. Signs were bread given to the children so that they would be edified, nourished, strengthened in their ability to follow God into becoming blessings to the world. This was upsetting. Jonah believed that Israel was special, had been singled out for the privilege of being God's instrument to bless the world. Now it seems that was not so. Gentiles were also being included.

So when Jesus says the sign of Jonah would be given, it isn't good news to the Jews. The end result in that incident was that Gentiles were blessed. It seemed that Jesus´s resurrection would have the same consequences.

Wordkeeper said:

People are surprised when they study the Bible to find that it works at so many levels.

Click to expand...

String theory talks about up to 12 level but most of us are doing good if we can deal with three or four levels. For example we have individuals that are a whole onto themselves yet they still make up a culture or a community. Then cultures or communities make up the entire human race. Everything while a whole onto itself is still a part of something bigger. Electrons, Neutrons & Protons make up atoms that make up elements and so on.

dqhall said:

There is a story of a 19th century whaler named James Bartley who was swallowed by a whale, then was cut out of its stomach two days later and lived to tell about it.
1891, February: James Bartley, the ’Modern Jonah’

Jonah 1:17 (KJV) Now the Lord had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.
Jonah 2:10 (KJV) And the Lord spake unto the fish, and it vomited out Jonah upon the dry land.
Jonah 3:1 And the word of the Lord came unto Jonah the second time, saying, 2 Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee.

Jonah preached they should repent. They repented fasting and dressed in shabby sack cloth.

Jesus referred to the story of Jonah in his teaching (Matthew 12:38-42). The concept of resurrection had been taught to the Jews in the story of Jonah, for no one can survive three days in the belly of a whale, can they? Whether or not you doubt the story of Jonah, do you think it suggests the possibility of resurrection? Are there instances in modern times of people being declared dead and returning to life?

Click to expand...

Nothing is impossible for God. The Bible is full of reports of miracles accomplished by God. If they could be done by human beings or by nature, then they would not be miracles, would they? Either you believe that God is sovereign and all-powerful or you do not believe in the real living God at all.

Wordkeeper said:

I mean Jesus could have said, "Bad Israel, no more signs" but instead He said "Bad Israel, you are going to see the resurrection". So why is the resurrection a reprimand to Israel?

Click to expand...

God always, sooner or later, proves His sovereignty and omnipotence. Miracles are always a reprimand to those who lack faith.

Wordkeeper said:

So why is the resurrection a punishment for Israel?

Click to expand...

Not a "punishment" but a rebuke of their unbelief and a proof of who Jesus is -- the Messiah of Isreal, the Son of God, and the savior of mankind.

I dont come on here to be argumentative. Let me try to be helpful.

If you take a look at Exodus 24 ... Mosss was on the mountain

dqhall said:

There is a story of a 19th century whaler named James Bartley who was swallowed by a whale, then was cut out of its stomach two days later and lived to tell about it.
1891, February: James Bartley, the ’Modern Jonah’

Jonah 1:17 (KJV) Now the Lord had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.
Jonah 2:10 (KJV) And the Lord spake unto the fish, and it vomited out Jonah upon the dry land.
Jonah 3:1 And the word of the Lord came unto Jonah the second time, saying, 2 Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee.

Jonah preached they should repent. They repented fasting and dressed in shabby sack cloth.

Jesus referred to the story of Jonah in his teaching (Matthew 12:38-42). The concept of resurrection had been taught to the Jews in the story of Jonah, for no one can survive three days in the belly of a whale, can they? Whether or not you doubt the story of Jonah, do you think it suggests the possibility of resurrection? Are there instances in modern times of people being declared dead and returning to life?

Click to expand...

Just to add to this FWIW.., when the prophesy was made that Jesus would be dead for three days it was way, WAY before the law was imposed in Israel that required a man to be in the grave for three days according to the Jewish definition of a "day" before he could be declared legally dead. How could the prophets have known it would be such an important legal matter to a people who were so legalistic? On another note, when attending the dozens of drownings here in Texas a body floated to the surface after three days underwater. Those of us in Fire/Rescue who recovered bodies as our job could almost nail it to the hour when the body would float. (That is not true in all cases because water temps play a huge role in off-gassing but it also had to be pretty extreme temp changes topside to chill the water that much.) The life and times of Jesus Christ were not linear. And they were not 3 dimensional. They were 4 dimensional. I have another thought. Why did God put the guards to sleep when the stone rolled aside and Jesus walked out of the tomb? Because the guards would have believed based on what they saw and not on faith. Because their testimony was not necessary. Because they were Romans at heart and have eventually denied that it was real that Jesus rose from being dead. I don't know but such is the mystery of our Lord. And I thank him so because I could not bear to have all the knowledge that is in Gods mind placed into my feeble and mortal mind. I know what I see. I don't need to understand it all to know it is real.

dqhall said:

There is a story of a 19th century whaler named James Bartley who was swallowed by a whale, then was cut out of its stomach two days later and lived to tell about it.
1891, February: James Bartley, the ’Modern Jonah’

Jonah 1:17 (KJV) Now the Lord had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.
Jonah 2:10 (KJV) And the Lord spake unto the fish, and it vomited out Jonah upon the dry land.
Jonah 3:1 And the word of the Lord came unto Jonah the second time, saying, 2 Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee.

Jonah preached they should repent. They repented fasting and dressed in shabby sack cloth.

Jesus referred to the story of Jonah in his teaching (Matthew 12:38-42). The concept of resurrection had been taught to the Jews in the story of Jonah, for no one can survive three days in the belly of a whale, can they? Whether or not you doubt the story of Jonah, do you think it suggests the possibility of resurrection? Are there instances in modern times of people being declared dead and returning to life?

Click to expand...

I think people are getting sidetracked which happens far to often when discussing the bible accounts. Accounts like Jonah and the Whale or the Great Flood lose sight of the meaning. The stories are allegorical, that isn't to say they can't be true, a story can be both true and allegorical. Allegory is defined, in this case as having a hidden meaning. The idea that the three days reference isn't unreasonable and would be allegorical, but there's much more to this account, and that is where the focus should be. Why would God send a Whale to swallow Jonah? The hidden interpretation or interpretations are important. Some interpret it as meaning when God has a plan for you, he's going to make sure his plan is carried out. Others have interpreted as representative of being swallowed up by the trials of life getting through those trials with God's help and being delivered out in a different place, a place God wants you to be.

Is the three day reference reasonable, sure, there are some 65,000 cross references in the bible. Wouldn't be at all surprised, but that isn't the primary aspect of the account.

Jonah was Spiritually dead

dqhall said:

While some miracle stories seem exaggerated, yet I believe miracles have occurred.

I was watching the news one day when I got such a report. It is on the Internet now. Someone hooked up to a heart monitor in a hospital was clinically dead. No electric activity in his heart. His son got the news his father was dead. What happened next was miraculous:
Man Declared Dead Comes Back to Life

There are other reports of people coming back to life as well. It is not a frequent occurrence.

Click to expand...

With all due respect, those accounts and especially this one on ABC literally does not qualify in the least. No broken bones simply means they did not do CPR correctly. (x9 Certifications) The drugs off the cart were not pushed through the body correctly, yet they thought they had made it around and hit his heart. They hadn't. (ER trained) The air-conditioning was on and the boy running in did nothing to raise the dead. Hearing is the last thing to go. And as for no signal a weak, intermittent signal means it was not positioned or connected correctly. Been there, seen that.

Conversely, Jesus wasn't declared dead until after having his back shredded, forced to carry a tree to the edge of town and up a hill, and then nailed to it and suspended there while his body fluids drained. Asking for water he had the disappointment and sorrow of being given rotted vinegar. If that wasn't enough a spear pierced his side and fluids absent red blood cells ushered forth. Jesus was beaten and hung and speared to death in the heat of the noontime day, hurriedly laid down and removed from the tree, carried to the tomb and laid in it before the evening had finished as was the tradition. No drugs. No shock. No CPR. Nothing. Nada. Praise be to God on High. And don't forget the 5 Miracles -
(1) From noon on Friday until 3 pm, the skies grew dark. (2) When Jesus breathed his last breath, the Temple veil the Holy of Holies was torn from top to bottom. (3) The earth shook and the rocks split. (4) Graves opened up and the saints came out. (6) Those who saw to his crucifixion were terrified, and exclaimed, "Surely he was the Son of God!" If you don't believe in Jesus this will be hard for you to grasp. But if you believe it is easy because this was the Son of God and the entire ordeal was witnessed and accounted for. For 2000 years men have tried to wipe away the story of Jesus and it started with his birth and Herod. Try as they might all of the kings, pharaoh's, priests and pretenders have tried to deny Jesus and wipe away his history and twist his Word and they have failed and failed and failed.

dqhall said:

The concept of resurrection had been taught to the Jews in the story of Jonah, for no one can survive three days in the belly of a whale, can they?

Click to expand...

No one who was born blind can suddenly see because someone rubbed mud made from spit in their eyes. No one with a shriveled hand can be instantly healed. No one can be cleansed of leprosy by dipping themselves in the Jordan River seven times...

We're talking about the same God who breathed the entire universe into existence. Anything is possible.