Obama’s Immigration Agencies Separated Children From Their Families, Too

Daniel Martinovich said:

Can't afford any of that because "democratic" socialism is unsustainable. Needs massive population growth and even more massive economic growth by people ingrained with the protestant work ethic to sustain itself; and that is not going to happen. That is one of the dirty secrets behind stupid lawmakers wanting mass migration. Problem is those migrating do not have the same history and will simply create in the USA what they are fleeing. Border security by its very nature is the job of the federal government. Health care and education and a host of other social welfare schemes are not.

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yeah trickle down economics, massive tax cuts for the wealthy and tax hikes for the middle class and waging war on the unions had nothing to do with it.

SilverBear said:

how would you respond to loosing your children because you got a parking ticket?

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Did you read what I wrote, at all ? Americans "lose their children" every day when they go to jail for misdemeanors. Are you outraged about that ? Not at all, I am sure.

If you were a parent, would you drag your kids to the border and commit a crime knowing you would be separated from them ? Whose fault is it then ?

tulc said:

Nice! You managed to ignore the fact that there's no way to pay for what would appear to be a massive government expansion all while decrying "socialism has never worked!". That was pretty adorable.
tulc(particularly liked the shout-out to "protestant work ethic"!)

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Massive goverment expansion? A direct constitutional power and responsibility of the federal goverment is a massive expansion of government! How about we just de-expand the unconstitutional powers by irresponsible government usurped by it and imposed on the nation like Obamacare and the DOE and Medicare and SSI so the government can get back to doing what it was created to do. Or should we just be like Europe and dump the main responsibility of goverment, the military protection of the nation so we can fully fund the nanny state? After all we have another nation who can pay for our military prtotection so we don’t have to right?
Oh wait

SilverBear said:

yeah trickle down economics, massive tax cuts for the wealthy and tax hikes for the middle class and waging war on the unions had nothing to do with it.

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Wow, how about we just use SSI as an example. Created as means tested elderly insurance not a retirement plan. Later expanded as a national retirement plan. At first one retired person was supported by 18 workers. Now it is down to two workers supporting one retiree. Soon to be one worker paying a retire to not not work. Add to that congress long ago replaced the fund with IOU's saddling future generations with 100 trillion in un-supported mandates. It called generational theft. It's why the principle of the year of Jubilee is in Gods Word. Because he knew the propensity of wicked men would be to steal future generations living through debt. Its why the first principle of human government in Gods word is that it be severely limited to what what it is fitted to do by nature.

Daniel Martinovich said:

Wow, how about we just use SSI as an example. Created as means tested elderly insurance not a retirement plan. Later expanded as a national retirement plan. At first one retired person was supported by 18 workers. Now it is down to two workers supporting one retiree. Soon to be one worker paying a retire to not not work. Add to that congress long ago replaced the fund with IOU's saddling future generations with 100 trillion in un-supported mandates. It called generational theft. It's why the principle of the year of Jubilee is in Gods Word. Because he knew the propensity of wicked men would be to steal future generations living through debt. Its why the first principle of human government in Gods word is that it be severely limited to what what it is fitted to do by nature.

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Lets not overlook the huge drain on American resources created by the huge illegal and politically supported importation of uneducated, unskilled illegal aliens who drain taxpayer resources to educate their children, provide medical care, housing and food support. The money may come from various little buckets, but it all comes from the ultimate big bucket, the American taxpayer. That money certainly could be diverted to SS and other programs.

There are many who are happy with American old people having to eat dog food as long as illegals who have never contributed anything to America, are being supported.

Clint Edwards said:

Lets not overlook the huge drain on American resources created by the huge illegal and politically supported importation of uneducated, unskilled illegal aliens who drain taxpayer resources to educate their children, provide medical care, housing and food support. The money may come from various little buckets, but it all comes from the ultimate big bucket, the American taxpayer. That money certainly could be diverted to SS and other programs.

There are many who are happy with American old people having to eat dog food as long as illegals who have never contributed anything to America, are being supported.

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Well I understand what you are saying and the drain on resources is certainly true. But the whole idea of a social welfare state being sustainable without significant population and economic growth is just foolishness, (heedlessness.) No wealthy country in the western world is even replacing its population. Any growth is coming through migration or newly arrived migrants having babies. In the USA that is now how were are just replacing our population. Most western countries aren't even replacing but in decline. It is simple math. Which I guess is the reason for "new" math or that math is racist, lol. Regardless. This is why the social welfare state is inherently immoral and cannot exist along side Bible based Christian civilization that when, or if, it matures, will produce plenty of wealth to take care of those who fall between the cracks.

SilverBear said:

how would you respond to loosing your children because you got a parking ticket?

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I guess if I were you, I wouldn't drive in Honduras nor count on Mexico to do anything.

Steve Petersen said:

Funny how fast personal insult flies from Trumps opponents. Just yesterday one of them called me a p.o.s. because I posted a link to this story.

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I didn't call you anything.

But as far as outrage is concerned:

Your dang right I'm outraged.

The Trump administration is kidnapping babies and putting them in prison where the people who are tending to them are barred by law to even touch them.

You want to do political whataboutism on THAT then you have no soul.

There I just said something about you.

Clint Edwards said:

Lets not overlook the huge drain on American resources created by the huge illegal and politically supported importation of uneducated, unskilled illegal aliens who drain taxpayer resources to educate their children, provide medical care, housing and food support. The money may come from various little buckets, but it all comes from the ultimate big bucket, the American taxpayer. That money certainly could be diverted to SS and other programs.

There are many who are happy with American old people having to eat dog food as long as illegals who have never contributed anything to America, are being supported.

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Sweet! I see you managed to throw up pretty much all of the Republican strawmen/talking points in that one post!
tulc(can't wait to see what else is used to try and obscure things next)

Daniel Martinovich said:

Wow, how about we just use SSI as an example. Created as means tested elderly insurance not a retirement plan. Later expanded as a national retirement plan.

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a retirement plan is exactly how it was conceived and passed into law. It created a social insurance program to pay retired workers a continuing income after retirement.

At first one retired person was supported by 18 workers. Now it is down to two workers supporting one retiree.

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Remember that when social security came into being there were a lot of workers and very few recipients.

Soon to be one worker paying a retire to not not work.

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also remember that social security is operating at a surplus.

Add to that congress long ago replaced the fund with IOU's saddling future generations with 100 trillion in un-supported mandates. It called generational theft. It's why the principle of the year of Jubilee is in Gods Word. Because he knew the propensity of wicked men would be to steal future generations living through debt. Its why the first principle of human government in Gods word is that it be severely limited to what what it is fitted to do by nature.

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When Social Security runs a surplus, Social Security holds the funds in trust. Social Security currently has a $2.9 trillion accumulated surplus, which was intentionally built up over decades to cover the retirement of the Baby Boom generation.
Congress just voted along party lines on taking away the accumulated surplus.

Daniel Martinovich said:

Massive goverment expansion? (snip)

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Sure, you want to build giant prisons (that have to be staffed and maintained) build multiple airports (that have to be staffed and maintained) supply multiple airplanes (jumbo one and smaller ones I'm assuming) (that will also have to be staffed and maintained) All the land they stand on and all the attendant expenses that go with all that. Plus they're going to need a massive bureaucracy to run it all. Now I'm not sure? But that sounds awful expensive to me. All this being done while simultaneously looking to make more tax cuts. Because let's face it? If there's one thing Republicans like almost as much as massive prison camps for "bad hombres" it's tax cuts for the top 1%.
tulc(so yeah, "government expansion")

twin.spin said:

I guess if I were you, I wouldn't drive in Honduras nor count on Mexico to do anything.

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wow that made no sense at all

FreeinChrist said:

Fact check: Did Obama administration separate families?

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Thank you.

tulc said:

Sweet! I see you managed to throw up pretty much all of the Republican strawmen/talking points in that one post!
tulc(can't wait to see what else is used to try and obscure things next)

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Strawmen ? Refute them then, it should be easy. Here is what the progressives want, it's very simple.

They want these people who illegally cross the border, and make bogus asylum claims (80% are rejected) to be housed as family units, which they knew a judge in the liberal 9th district has ruled that children can only be detained for 20 days, so, as Obama did, since it is so wrong to keep the illegals separated from their kids they will be released in this country. OF COURSE, they will be given a piece of paper with a future court date.

DHS statistics show 97% of these will NEVER make their court dates, they will simply disappear into the country, most illiterate, uneducated, unskilled.

De facto open borders, and many millions draining the coffers that American taxpayers payed into for services for Americans

The solution ? give them their court day, put them back across the border, and have their hearing at a point of entry,.

I say again, refute what I have said, if you can.

It should be great fun to see what facts actually say.

Clint Edwards said:

Strawmen ? Refute them then, it should be easy. (snip)

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Refute them? Sure no problem: you're wrong. Hey! You were right about that! That was easy!
tulc("Hitchen's Razor" is always a good place to start)

tulc said:

Refute them? Sure no problem: you're wrong. Hey! You were right about that! That was easy!
tulc("Hitchen's Razor" is always a good place to start)

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A scholarly refutation using fact and logic. Bravo

SilverBear said:

a retirement plan is exactly how it was conceived and passed into law. It created a social insurance program to pay retired workers a continuing income after retirement.

Remember that when social security came into being there were a lot of workers and very few recipients.

also remember that social security is operating at a surplus.



When Social Security runs a surplus, Social Security holds the funds in trust. Social Security currently has a $2.9 trillion accumulated surplus, which was intentionally built up over decades to cover the retirement of the Baby Boom generation.
Congress just voted along party lines on taking away the accumulated surplus.

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Wow really? You actually believe the trust fund has cash in it rather than IOU’ s payable with interest by future generations? I have a piece of land that I’ll sell you for half of what it is worth.

Why would you tell me what I already told you about when it was created it had many workers to support a recipient of benifits. I told you that but I did it within the context of the foolish lack of foresight those had who were behind it’s creation. They were told by conservatives back then that it was unsustainable and would result in exactly what we see now. That without massive population increases it would end up as a giant ponzi scheme were the group at the end gets the shaft that They didn’t make an honest mistake. They passed it without regard to the consequences because they thought it would put Democrats in power forever.

What did you just do? Paste a part of a Wikipedia article on how the law was invisioned to work? You really don’t know the trust funds money has been squandered away?

Clint Edwards said:

A scholarly refutation using fact and logic. Bravo

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Did I miss the post where you supported (with links and relevant quotes) all the things you wanted "refuted"? if so I apologize. If I didn't then since what you posted was simply your opinion I just stated my opinion you were wrong. I didn't need any more then that. Opinions are like noses, everyone picks their own.
tulc(just wondering)