SHADOW LAWS OF THE OLD COVENANT FULFILLED IN THE NEW? COL 2

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LoveGodsWord

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I would like to be shown one verse in all of the Bible that tells me Christians are grafted into Israel. One verse is all I ask. A bunch of verses that beat around the bush will not suffice. In fact, the longer the post the less I will regard it. I want a to the point answer. Nothing more will do. Long drawn out posts that never give straight answers might just as well not have been written.

Hello Bob nice to see you.

You were provided more then one scripture showing that God's Israel in the NEW COVENANT are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW the Word of God in post # 375 linked CLICK ME.

If you look at the 2nd half of this post the discussion is on Romans 11:16-27 and gentiles being grafted in to God's Israel.

You did not read this post did you Bob?

The branches represent Israel (ALL God's people; Jews and Gentile believers) the root represents Christ. This is also supported by a stack of other scriptures in the first half of post # 375.

Take a read of post # 375 and all the scriptures in it that show God's ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD and show why you disagree with the scriptures provided.

If you cannot maybe you should pray about it further at home Bob, as we should believe the Word of God over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God (Matthew 15:2-9).

Gentiles are now grafted in to God's Israel. If we are not a part of God's Israel then we have no part in the NEW Covenant promise and are still in our sins (Hebrews 8:10-12)

Hope this helps and look forward to your reply Bob.
 
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Bob S

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Why is it that those who believe we are grafted into Israel will not provide one verse from the Bible that tells us we are grafted into Israel?. Why does LGW refuse to answer the request to provide one verse that tells us we are grafted into Israel?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Why is it that those who believe we are grafted into Israel will not provide one verse from the Bible that tells us we are grafted into Israel?. Why does LGW refuse to answer the request to provide one verse that tells us we are grafted into Israel?

Well that has no truth in it whatsoever Bob,

Scripture was provided in posts # 375 linked, and post # 381 above. You decided to ignore these posts and scriptures in them that disagree with you neither do you respond to all the scriptures in these posts that disagree with you either will you discuss them.

Sorry Bob, God's Word disagrees with you.
 
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Bob S

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Still no scripture as requested. We always are asked to go back. Just provide the scripture. Wading through a bunch of scripture that does not provide a simple answer doesn't answer my request. If we are grafted into Israel it should not take a long drawn out post to provide a simple verse that tell us that.

Okay, it is evident that a verse cannot be provided or someone would have jumped at the chance to prove me wrong. I stand on the fact that we are grafted into the Root and the Root and the Root is Jesus Christ. Show me where I am wrong by posting a new post. Keep it simple. I like simple answers that do not beat around the bush and does not prove anything.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Still no scripture as requested. We always are asked to go back. Just provide the scripture. Wading through a bunch of scripture that does not provide a simple answer doesn't answer my request. If we are grafted into Israel it should not take a long drawn out post to provide a simple verse that tell us that.

Okay, it is evident that a verse cannot be provided or someone would have jumped at the chance to prove me wrong. I stand on the fact that we are grafted into the Root and the Root and the Root is Jesus Christ. Show me where I am wrong by posting a new post. Keep it simple. I like simple answers that do not beat around the bush and do not prove anything.

Hello Bob,

Here you go, lot's of scripture....

WHO ARE GOD'S ISRAEL IN THE NEW COVENANT?

There is no such thing as Jew or Greek anymore. All who believe and follow God's Word are one in Christ. Israel in the OLD COVENANT were those from the seed of Abraham. In the NEW COVENANT, if you are in Christ then you are Abrahams seed and heirs according to the promise...

GALATIANS 3:28-29 [28], THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: FOR YOU ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS AND IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED FOR YOU ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS [29], and IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN ARE YOU ABRAHAM'S SEED, AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE.

God's true ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT are not by name only but all those in Christ. Those of the FLESH (sinful human nature) are not Abrahams seed but those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God in Christ are God's ISRAEL...

ROMANS 9:6-8 [6], FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: [7], NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> [8], That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED.

God's ISRAEL are all those in CHRIST that have been given a NEW HEART according to the NEW COVENANT promise...

ROMANS 2:28-29 [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

In the NEW COVENANT all those in Christ are are God's ISRAEL...

COLOSSIANS 3:11 [11], WHERE THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: BUT CHRIST IS ALL IN ALL.

ROMANS 10:11-13 [11], For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. [12], FOR THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JEW OR GREEK: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. [13], FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED.

The New Covenant is for God's Israel...

EZEKIEL 36:26-27 [26], A NEW HEART WILL I GIVE YOU, AND A NEW SPIRIT WILL I PUT WITHIN YOU; AND I WILL TAKE AWAY THE STONY HEART OUT OF YOUR FLESH, AND GIVE YOU A HEART OF FLESH. [27], AND I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT WITHIN YOU, AND CAUSE YOU TO WALK IN MY STATUTES AND YOU SHALL KEEP MY JUDGEMENTS AND DO THEM.

and again...

JEREMIAH 31:33-34 [33], BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS,AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. [34], And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Paul proclaims it here...

HEBREWS 8:10-12 [10], BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS, AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: [11], And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. [12], For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

The NEW COVENANT is for GOD'S ISRAEL which represent those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God’s WORD.

If you are not part of GOD'S ISRAEL then you are not a part of the NEW COVENANT (Hebrews 8:10-12).

............

GENTILES are now grafted in...

ROMANS 11:16-27
[16], For if the firstfruit are holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root is holy, so are the branches.

The root represents Christ...

[17], And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them partake of the root and fatness of the olive tree.

The Jewish and the Gentile believers are the branches grafted onto the root (Christ)...

[18], Boast not against the branches. But if you boast, you bear not the root, but the root you.
[19], You will say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
[20], Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Be not arrogant, but fear:

God's ISRAEL are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD...

[21], For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also not spare you.
[22], Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in his goodness: otherwise you also shall be cut off.
[23], And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
[24], For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, who are the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
[25], For I would not, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.
[26], And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

The NEW COVENANT is for both Jews and Greek, bond and free, all those who are in Christ. All in Christ are the seed of Abraham and heirs according to the promise.

[27], For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Gentiles are now grafted in to God's ISRAEL. If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL you have no part in the NEW COVENANT.

Only God's Word is true Bob, and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God.

Hope this helps Bob. :)
 
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klutedavid

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Bob quoted Ellen white's words in "Early Writings"


LGW commented and I quote:
Red comma is mine to make the sentence understandable.

What does LGW mean it is not true? Nothing we write is true according to him. It is very true, I don't care what the main subject was about. Her statement stands alone and it is not the only time she wrote the same thought. Anyone covering for a false prophet is waste of time especially when the statement is written so plainly. James did a good job transcribing her scribblings.
Hello Bob.

Did Ellen really write and believe the following idea?
It means eternal salvation to keep the Sabbath holy unto the Lord. God says: "Them that honor Me I will honor." {6T 356.4}
If our salvation reduced to a perfect obedience to the law, then obviously, no one can be saved. Even folk that go to church on the Sabbath would be breaking the law. Why do I get the impression that folk that claim to obey the law, somehow see themselves as righteous folk.

What we really need is some honesty from everyone, a measure of personal integrity. That is what seems to be always absent in these forums.

How could anyone make such a claim.
It means eternal salvation to keep the Sabbath holy unto the Lord
This claim is the antithesis of the purpose of the law.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Could someone tell me which one of all those verses in the above post tell me Christians are grafted into Israel?

See what I mean about beating around the bush.

Here Bob, let's go through it slowly....

GENTILES are now grafted in...

ROMANS 11:16-27
[16], For if the firstfruit are holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root is holy, so are the branches.

The root represents Christ...

[17], And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them partake of the root and fatness of the olive tree.

The Jewish and the Gentile believers are the branches grafted onto the root (Christ)...

[18], Boast not against the branches. But if you boast, you bear not the root, but the root you.
[19], You will say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
[20], Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Be not arrogant, but fear:

God's ISRAEL are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD...

[21], For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also not spare you.
[22], Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in his goodness: otherwise you also shall be cut off.
[23], And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

[24], For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, who are the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

[25], For I would not, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.
[26], And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

The NEW COVENANT is for both Jews and Greek, bond and free, all those who are in Christ. All in Christ are the seed of Abraham and heirs according to the promise.

[27], For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Gentiles are now grafted in to God's ISRAEL. If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL you have no part in the NEW COVENANT.

....................

Now Bob, if you read the above with the following scriptures that are also saying the same thing..

GALATIANS 3:28-29 [28], THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: FOR YOU ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS AND IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED FOR YOU ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS [29], and IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN ARE YOU ABRAHAM'S SEED, AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE.

God's true ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT are not by name only but all those in Christ. Those of the FLESH (sinful human nature) are not Abrahams seed but those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God in Christ are God's ISRAEL...

ROMANS 9:6-8 [6], FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: [7], NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> [8], That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED.

God's ISRAEL are all those in CHRIST that have been given a NEW HEART according to the NEW COVENANT promise...

ROMANS 2:28-29 [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

In the NEW COVENANT all those in Christ are are God's ISRAEL...

COLOSSIANS 3:11 [11], WHERE THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: BUT CHRIST IS ALL IN ALL.

ROMANS 10:11-13 [11], For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. [12], FOR THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JEW OR GREEK: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. [13], FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED.

The New Covenant is for God's Israel...

EZEKIEL 36:26-27 [26], A NEW HEART WILL I GIVE YOU, AND A NEW SPIRIT WILL I PUT WITHIN YOU; AND I WILL TAKE AWAY THE STONY HEART OUT OF YOUR FLESH, AND GIVE YOU A HEART OF FLESH. [27], AND I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT WITHIN YOU, AND CAUSE YOU TO WALK IN MY STATUTES AND YOU SHALL KEEP MY JUDGEMENTS AND DO THEM.

and again...

JEREMIAH 31:33-34 [33], BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS,AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. [34], And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Paul proclaims it here...

HEBREWS 8:10-12 [10], BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS, AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: [11], And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. [12], For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

The NEW COVENANT is for GOD'S ISRAEL which represent those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God’s WORD. If you are not part of GOD'S ISRAEL then you are not a part of the NEW COVENANT
(Hebrews 8:10-12).

............

Only God's Word is true Bob, and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God.

Hope this helps Bob. :)
 
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klutedavid

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Could someone tell me which one of all those verses in the above post tell me Christians are grafted into Israel?

See what I mean about beating around the bush.
How could so many churches be so wrong?

You wonder whether anyone really reads the scripture, or spend their time reading books based on the scripture. Some folk even believe that the Jewish temple will be rebuilt, and the antichrist must sit in that temple.

So much talk about the law and so little talk about Jesus.
 
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klutedavid

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Could someone tell me which one of all those verses in the above post tell me Christians are grafted into Israel?

See what I mean about beating around the bush.
He said, there is no Jew or Gentile, that should be the end of the matter. What is it that they do not see?
 
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Bob S

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How could so many churches be so wrong?

You wonder whether anyone really reads the scripture, or spend their time reading books based on the scripture. Some folk even believe that the Jewish temple will be rebuilt, and the antichrist must sit in that temple.

So much talk about the law and so little talk about Jesus.
Now LGW wants me to read slowly the same old beat around the bush stuff. Yes, Jesus is the Root and He is where we are grafted. Israel became defunct at Calvary. Without a covenant the land they had been given was lost. There is no Israel to be grafted into, so how could any thinking person try to identify Christians as being defunct Israel? We are one in Christ. Eph 2:14-18.
 
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klutedavid

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Here Bob, let's go through it slowly....

GENTILES are now grafted in...

ROMANS 11:16-27
[16], For if the firstfruit are holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root is holy, so are the branches.

The root represents Christ...

[17], And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them partake of the root and fatness of the olive tree.

The Jewish and the Gentile believers are the branches grafted onto the root (Christ)...

[18], Boast not against the branches. But if you boast, you bear not the root, but the root you.
[19], You will say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
[20], Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Be not arrogant, but fear:

God's ISRAEL are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD...

[21], For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also not spare you.
[22], Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in his goodness: otherwise you also shall be cut off.
[23], And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

[24], For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, who are the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

[25], For I would not, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.
[26], And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

The NEW COVENANT is for both Jews and Greek, bond and free, all those who are in Christ. All in Christ are the seed of Abraham and heirs according to the promise.

[27], For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Gentiles are now grafted in to God's ISRAEL. If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL you have no part in the NEW COVENANT.

....................

Now Bob, if you read the above with the following scriptures that are also saying the same thing..

GALATIANS 3:28-29 [28], THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: FOR YOU ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS AND IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED FOR YOU ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS [29], and IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN ARE YOU ABRAHAM'S SEED, AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE.

God's true ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT are not by name only but all those in Christ. Those of the FLESH (sinful human nature) are not Abrahams seed but those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God in Christ are God's ISRAEL...

ROMANS 9:6-8 [6], FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: [7], NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> [8], That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED.

God's ISRAEL are all those in CHRIST that have been given a NEW HEART according to the NEW COVENANT promise...

ROMANS 2:28-29 [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

In the NEW COVENANT all those in Christ are are God's ISRAEL...

COLOSSIANS 3:11 [11], WHERE THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: BUT CHRIST IS ALL IN ALL.

ROMANS 10:11-13 [11], For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. [12], FOR THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JEW OR GREEK: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. [13], FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED.

The New Covenant is for God's Israel...

EZEKIEL 36:26-27 [26], A NEW HEART WILL I GIVE YOU, AND A NEW SPIRIT WILL I PUT WITHIN YOU; AND I WILL TAKE AWAY THE STONY HEART OUT OF YOUR FLESH, AND GIVE YOU A HEART OF FLESH. [27], AND I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT WITHIN YOU, AND CAUSE YOU TO WALK IN MY STATUTES AND YOU SHALL KEEP MY JUDGEMENTS AND DO THEM.

and again...

JEREMIAH 31:33-34 [33], BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS,AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. [34], And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Paul proclaims it here...

HEBREWS 8:10-12 [10], BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS, AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: [11], And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. [12], For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

The NEW COVENANT is for GOD'S ISRAEL which represent those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God’s WORD. If you are not part of GOD'S ISRAEL then you are not a part of the NEW COVENANT
(Hebrews 8:10-12).

............

Only God's Word is true Bob, and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God.

Hope this helps Bob. :)
Abraham lived in a tent, Abraham was not a Jew, Abraham was a gentile by birth. I have no idea why you even quote Abraham?

We are a new creation in Christ, we do not become Jews.

Every time I see this paragraph quoted below I cringe.
ROMANS 2:28-29 [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Paul is talking directly to the Jews in Rome in this paragraph. I know that you cannot see that Paul is talking about the Jews here. It is such a shame, as this paragraph is often quoted and wrongly so often.

Paul tells us who he is talking to in chapter two.

17 But if you bear the name “Jew” and rely upon the Law and boast in God...

You don't bear the name Jew.

Further Paul tells us who he is talking to directly.

24 For “the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you,” just as it is written.

Gentiles blaspheme God because of the Jews ('you').

We know who Paul is addressing.

25 For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law...

Paul is not talking to the Gentiles in chapter two of Romans.

Wait, there's more to come.

27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law?

There should be no doubt in anyone's mind that Paul is talking to the Jews only.

I do not expect you to read the scripture properly. If you cannot even read one chapter properly, how can you even expect to understand what is written?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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I do not expect you to read the scripture properly. If you cannot even read one chapter properly, how can you even expect to understand what is written?

Hello David, you may need to study your bible more. God's ISRAEL are all those who BELIEVE God's WORD and FOLLOW it. If you disagree please respond to these next few posts that disagree with your teaching showing the OLD Testament origin of ISRAEL and application to the NEW Testament scriptures....

ORIGIN OF ISRAEL AND THE TWELVE TRIBES.

The promise of God to Abraham that his descendance would be as the sand of the sea or start of heaven…

Genesis 22:15-18 [15], And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, [16], And said, By myself have I sworn, says the LORD, for because you have done this thing, and have not withheld your son, your only son: [17], That in blessing I will bless you, and in multiplying I will multiply your descendants as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the seashore; and your descendants shall possess the gate of their enemies; [18], And in your descendants shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because you have obeyed my voice.

Jacob a descendant of Abraham being 2nd born received the birth right from Esau...

GENESIS 25:31 [31], And Jacob said, Sell me this day your birthright. [32], And Esau said, Behold, I am at the point of death: and what profit shall this birthright be to me? [33], And Jacob said, swear to me this day; and he swore unto him: and he sold his birthright unto Jacob. [34], Then Jacob gave Esau bread and pottage of lentils; and he did eat and drink, and rose up, and went his way: thus, Esau despised his birthright.

God’s promise to Abraham was to be fulfilled through Abrahams descendant Jacob...

GENESIS 32:11-12 [11], Deliver me, I pray you, from the hand of my brother, from the hand of Esau: for I fear him, lest he come and smite me, and the mother with the children. [12], And you said, I will surely do you good, and make your descendants as the sand of the sea, which cannot be numbered for multitude.

God changes Jacobs name to ISRAEL...

GENESIS 32:24-28 [24], And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day. [25], And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him. [26], And he said, let me go, for the day breaks. And he said, I will not let you go, except you bless me. [27], And he said unto him, what is your name? And he said, Jacob. [28], And he said, Your name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince have you power with God and with men, and have prevailed.

The name "Israel" is only a name given by God himself to represent his people. The origin of the name "Israel" come from Genesis 32:28 where Jacob wrestled with the Angel and prevailed ...for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. Its meaning is his posterity will rule as God. Jacob had 12 sons representing the 12 tribes of Israel.

ISRAEL (God’s new name given to Jacob) had 12 sons which make up the 12 tribes of ISRAEL...

GENESIS 35:22-26 [22], ... Now the sons of Jacob were twelve: [23], The sons of Leah; Reuben, Jacob's firstborn, and Simeon, and Levi, and Judah, and Issachar, and Zebulun: [24], The sons of Rachel; Joseph, and Benjamin: [25], And the sons of Bilhah, Rachel's handmaid; Dan, and Naphtali: [26], And the sons of Zilpah, Leah's handmaid; Gad, and Asher: these are the sons of Jacob, who were born to him in Paddanaram.

God’s promise of the NEW COVENANT is to ISRAEL…

JEREMIAH 31:31-34 [31], Behold, the days come, says the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: [32], Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; my covenant which they broke, although I was a husband unto them, says the LORD: [33], But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, says the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. [34], And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

144, 000 Come out of the 12 tribes of ISRAEL…

REVELATION 7:3-8 [3], Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads. [4], And I heard the number of them who were sealed: and there were sealed a hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. [5], Of the tribe of Judah were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand. [6], Of the tribe of Asher were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Naphtali were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasseh were sealed twelve thousand. [7], Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand. [8], Of the tribe of Zebulun were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

God’s people are called ISRAEL in both the OLD AND NEW COVENANT and the END OF TIME. ISRAEL is a name that God gives to all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God’s WORD. If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL you have no part in the NEW COVENANT.

...............

OLD TESTAMENT LEADING TO ISRAEL UNDER THE NEW COVENANT

There is no such thing as Jew or Greek anymore. All who believe and follow God's Word are one in Christ. Israel in the OLD COVENANT were those from the seed of Abraham. In the NEW COVENANT, if you are in Christ then you are Abrahams seed and heirs according to the promise...

GALATIANS 3:28-29 [28], THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: FOR YOU ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS AND IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED FOR YOU ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS [29], and IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN ARE YOU ABRAHAM'S SEED, AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE.

God's true ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT are not by name only but all those in Christ. Those of the FLESH (sinful human nature) are not Abrahams seed but those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God in Christ are God's ISRAEL...

ROMANS 9:6-8 [6], FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: [7], NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> [8], That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED.

God's ISRAEL are all those in CHRIST that have been given a NEW HEART according to the NEW COVENANT promise...

ROMANS 2:28-29 [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

In the NEW COVENANT all those in Christ are are God's ISRAEL...

COLOSSIANS 3:11 [11], WHERE THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: BUT CHRIST IS ALL IN ALL.

ROMANS 10:11-13 [11], For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. [12], FOR THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JEW OR GREEK: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. [13], FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED.

The New Covenant is for God's Israel...

EZEKIEL 36:26-27 [26], A NEW HEART WILL I GIVE YOU, AND A NEW SPIRIT WILL I PUT WITHIN YOU; AND I WILL TAKE AWAY THE STONY HEART OUT OF YOUR FLESH, AND GIVE YOU A HEART OF FLESH. [27], AND I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT WITHIN YOU, AND CAUSE YOU TO WALK IN MY STATUTES AND YOU SHALL KEEP MY JUDGEMENTS AND DO THEM.

and again...

JEREMIAH 31:33-34 [33], BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS,AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. [34], And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Paul proclaims it here...

HEBREWS 8:10-12 [10], BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS, AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: [11], And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. [12], For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

The NEW COVENANT is for GOD'S ISRAEL which represent those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God’s WORD.

If you are not part of GOD'S ISRAEL then you are not a part of the NEW COVENANT (Hebrews 8:10-12).

............

GENTILES are now grafted in...

ROMANS 11:16-27
[16], For if the firstfruit are holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root is holy, so are the branches.

The root represents Christ...

[17], And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them partake of the root and fatness of the olive tree.

The Jewish and the Gentile believers are the branches grafted onto the root (Christ)...

[18], Boast not against the branches. But if you boast, you bear not the root, but the root you.
[19], You will say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
[20], Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Be not arrogant, but fear:

God's ISRAEL are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD...

[21], For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also not spare you.
[22], Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in his goodness: otherwise you also shall be cut off.
[23], And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
[24], For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, who are the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
[25], For I would not, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.
[26], And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

The NEW COVENANT is for both Jews and Greek, bond and free, all those who are in Christ. All in Christ are the seed of Abraham and heirs according to the promise.

[27], For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Gentiles are now grafted in to God's ISRAEL.

If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL you have no part in the NEW COVENANT.

Sorry Dave, God's Word disagrees with you.

Hope this helps.
 
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Bob S

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Show us the verse in your long post that tells us Gentiles have to be grafted into Israel to be saved. We all, dead or alive, have/had to be grafted into the Root to be saved. Even Jews have to be grafted into the Root. It is ludicrous to think an Israelite would be grafted into Israel. Israel couldn't save anyone. He was merely one of the vessels, as was Adam, that down the line produced Jesus. If man is grafted in to mere man will anyone ever be saved?

The Israelites had their chance to be God's chosen. Now we all are one. We are all God's chosen people. Israel's failure was/is our gain.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Show us the verse in your long post that tells us Gentiles have to be grafted into Israel to be saved. We all, dead or alive, have/had to be grafted into the Root to be saved. Even Jews have to be grafted into the Root. It is ludicrous to think an Israelite would be grafted into Israel. Israel couldn't save anyone. He was merely one of the vessels, as was Adam, that down the line produced Jesus. If man is grafted in to mere man will anyone ever be saved?

The Israelites had their chance to be God's chosen. Now we all are one. We are all God's chosen people. Israel's failure was/is our gain.


Hello Bob,

You have asked for one scripture showing that gentiles are a part of God's ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT. You have been given around 63 scriptures in post # 394 linking the ORIGIN of ISRAEL as the promise of God to Abraham to make him a great nation, right through to the NEW COVENANT promise and the end days prior to the 2nd coming all defining God's ISRAEL as all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD.

Gentiles are now grafted in...(see ROMANS 11:16-27)

[17], And if some of the branches were broken off (ISRAEL), and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them (Gentiles), and with them partake of the root (Christ) and fatness of the olive tree.

Try reading the scriptures in the post Bob. If you disagree then prove it. If you cannot then we should believe the WORD of God over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God.

Sorry Bob as shown in post # 394, God's Word disagrees with your teaching.

If you cannot respond to this post and the scriptures in them showing who God's ISRAEL are in the NEW COVENANT maybe you can pray about it at home?

Hope this helps
 
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klutedavid

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Hello David, you may need to study your bible more. God's ISRAEL are all those who BELIEVE God's WORD and FOLLOW it. If you disagree please respond to these next few posts that disagree with your teaching showing the OLD Testament origin of ISRAEL and application to the NEW Testament scriptures....

ORIGIN OF ISRAEL AND THE TWELVE TRIBES.

The promise of God to Abraham that his descendance would be as the sand of the sea or start of heaven…

Genesis 22:15-18 [15], And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, [16], And said, By myself have I sworn, says the LORD, for because you have done this thing, and have not withheld your son, your only son: [17], That in blessing I will bless you, and in multiplying I will multiply your descendants as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the seashore; and your descendants shall possess the gate of their enemies; [18], And in your descendants shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because you have obeyed my voice.

Jacob a descendant of Abraham being 2nd born received the birth right from Esau...

GENESIS 25:31 [31], And Jacob said, Sell me this day your birthright. [32], And Esau said, Behold, I am at the point of death: and what profit shall this birthright be to me? [33], And Jacob said, swear to me this day; and he swore unto him: and he sold his birthright unto Jacob. [34], Then Jacob gave Esau bread and pottage of lentils; and he did eat and drink, and rose up, and went his way: thus, Esau despised his birthright.

God’s promise to Abraham was to be fulfilled through Abrahams descendant Jacob...

GENESIS 32:11-12 [11], Deliver me, I pray you, from the hand of my brother, from the hand of Esau: for I fear him, lest he come and smite me, and the mother with the children. [12], And you said, I will surely do you good, and make your descendants as the sand of the sea, which cannot be numbered for multitude.

God changes Jacobs name to ISRAEL...

GENESIS 32:24-28 [24], And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day. [25], And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him. [26], And he said, let me go, for the day breaks. And he said, I will not let you go, except you bless me. [27], And he said unto him, what is your name? And he said, Jacob. [28], And he said, Your name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince have you power with God and with men, and have prevailed.

The name "Israel" is only a name given by God himself to represent his people. The origin of the name "Israel" come from Genesis 32:28 where Jacob wrestled with the Angel and prevailed ...for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. Its meaning is his posterity will rule as God. Jacob had 12 sons representing the 12 tribes of Israel.

ISRAEL (God’s new name given to Jacob) had 12 sons which make up the 12 tribes of ISRAEL...

GENESIS 35:22-26 [22], ... Now the sons of Jacob were twelve: [23], The sons of Leah; Reuben, Jacob's firstborn, and Simeon, and Levi, and Judah, and Issachar, and Zebulun: [24], The sons of Rachel; Joseph, and Benjamin: [25], And the sons of Bilhah, Rachel's handmaid; Dan, and Naphtali: [26], And the sons of Zilpah, Leah's handmaid; Gad, and Asher: these are the sons of Jacob, who were born to him in Paddanaram.

God’s promise of the NEW COVENANT is to ISRAEL…

JEREMIAH 31:31-34 [31], Behold, the days come, says the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: [32], Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; my covenant which they broke, although I was a husband unto them, says the LORD: [33], But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, says the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. [34], And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

144, 000 Come out of the 12 tribes of ISRAEL…

REVELATION 7:3-8 [3], Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads. [4], And I heard the number of them who were sealed: and there were sealed a hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. [5], Of the tribe of Judah were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand. [6], Of the tribe of Asher were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Naphtali were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasseh were sealed twelve thousand. [7], Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand. [8], Of the tribe of Zebulun were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

God’s people are called ISRAEL in both the OLD AND NEW COVENANT and the END OF TIME. ISRAEL is a name that God gives to all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God’s WORD. If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL you have no part in the NEW COVENANT.

...............

OLD TESTAMENT LEADING TO ISRAEL UNDER THE NEW COVENANT

There is no such thing as Jew or Greek anymore. All who believe and follow God's Word are one in Christ. Israel in the OLD COVENANT were those from the seed of Abraham. In the NEW COVENANT, if you are in Christ then you are Abrahams seed and heirs according to the promise...

GALATIANS 3:28-29 [28], THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: FOR YOU ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS AND IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED FOR YOU ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS [29], and IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN ARE YOU ABRAHAM'S SEED, AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE.

God's true ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT are not by name only but all those in Christ. Those of the FLESH (sinful human nature) are not Abrahams seed but those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God in Christ are God's ISRAEL...

ROMANS 9:6-8 [6], FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: [7], NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> [8], That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED.

God's ISRAEL are all those in CHRIST that have been given a NEW HEART according to the NEW COVENANT promise...

ROMANS 2:28-29 [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

In the NEW COVENANT all those in Christ are are God's ISRAEL...

COLOSSIANS 3:11 [11], WHERE THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: BUT CHRIST IS ALL IN ALL.

ROMANS 10:11-13 [11], For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. [12], FOR THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JEW OR GREEK: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. [13], FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED.

The New Covenant is for God's Israel...

EZEKIEL 36:26-27 [26], A NEW HEART WILL I GIVE YOU, AND A NEW SPIRIT WILL I PUT WITHIN YOU; AND I WILL TAKE AWAY THE STONY HEART OUT OF YOUR FLESH, AND GIVE YOU A HEART OF FLESH. [27], AND I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT WITHIN YOU, AND CAUSE YOU TO WALK IN MY STATUTES AND YOU SHALL KEEP MY JUDGEMENTS AND DO THEM.

and again...

JEREMIAH 31:33-34 [33], BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS,AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. [34], And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Paul proclaims it here...

HEBREWS 8:10-12 [10], BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS, AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: [11], And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. [12], For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

The NEW COVENANT is for GOD'S ISRAEL which represent those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God’s WORD.

If you are not part of GOD'S ISRAEL then you are not a part of the NEW COVENANT (Hebrews 8:10-12).

............

GENTILES are now grafted in...

ROMANS 11:16-27
[16], For if the firstfruit are holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root is holy, so are the branches.

The root represents Christ...

[17], And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them partake of the root and fatness of the olive tree.

The Jewish and the Gentile believers are the branches grafted onto the root (Christ)...

[18], Boast not against the branches. But if you boast, you bear not the root, but the root you.
[19], You will say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
[20], Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Be not arrogant, but fear:

God's ISRAEL are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD...

[21], For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also not spare you.
[22], Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in his goodness: otherwise you also shall be cut off.
[23], And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
[24], For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, who are the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
[25], For I would not, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.
[26], And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

The NEW COVENANT is for both Jews and Greek, bond and free, all those who are in Christ. All in Christ are the seed of Abraham and heirs according to the promise.

[27], For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Gentiles are now grafted in to God's ISRAEL.

If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL you have no part in the NEW COVENANT.

Sorry Dave, God's Word disagrees with you.

Hope this helps.
As I said before, Abraham was not a Jew and Abraham was not a citizen of Israel. Why do you quote verses about Abraham, when we are discussing Israel and the Gentiles?
 
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klutedavid

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Hello David, you may need to study your bible more.
So does everyone.
God's ISRAEL are all those who BELIEVE God's WORD and FOLLOW it. If you disagree please respond to these next few posts that disagree with your teaching showing the OLD Testament origin of ISRAEL and application to the NEW Testament scriptures....
Well nothing to support Gentiles becoming Jews.
Genesis 22:15-18 [15], And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, [16], And said, By myself have I sworn, says the LORD, for because you have done this thing, and have not withheld your son, your only son: [17], That in blessing I will bless you, and in multiplying I will multiply your descendants as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the seashore; and your descendants shall possess the gate of their enemies; [18], And in your descendants shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because you have obeyed my voice.
This says nothing about Gentiles becoming Jews?
It just says all nations are blessed through Abraham's descendants.
Jacob a descendant of Abraham being 2nd born received the birth right from Esau...

GENESIS 25:31 [31], And Jacob said, Sell me this day your birthright. [32], And Esau said, Behold, I am at the point of death: and what profit shall this birthright be to me? [33], And Jacob said, swear to me this day; and he swore unto him: and he sold his birthright unto Jacob. [34], Then Jacob gave Esau bread and pottage of lentils; and he did eat and drink, and rose up, and went his way: thus, Esau despised his birthright.
What is the relevance of that paragraph?

This paragraph has nothing to do with supporting the idea that Gentiles have to become Jews.
GENESIS 32:11-12 [11], Deliver me, I pray you, from the hand of my brother, from the hand of Esau: for I fear him, lest he come and smite me, and the mother with the children. [12], And you said, I will surely do you good, and make your descendants as the sand of the sea, which cannot be numbered for multitude.
What are you doing LGW, none of this information is applicable to the argument of yours.
GENESIS 32:24-28
[24], And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day. [25], And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him. [26], And he said, let me go, for the day breaks. And he said, I will not let you go, except you bless me. [27], And he said unto him, what is your name? And he said, Jacob. [28], And he said, Your name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince have you power with God and with men, and have prevailed.
Nothing about Gentiles becoming Jews.
The name "Israel"
is only a name given by God himself to represent his people. The origin of the name "Israel" come from Genesis 32:28 where Jacob wrestled with the Angel and prevailed ...for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. Its meaning is his posterity will rule as God. Jacob had 12 sons representing the 12 tribes of Israel.
The direct descendants of Jacob become the twelve tribes called Israel.

Still no mention of Gentiles becoming Jews.
ISRAEL (God’s new name given to Jacob) had 12 sons which make up the 12 tribes of ISRAEL...

GENESIS 35:22-26 [22], ... Now the sons of Jacob were twelve: [23], The sons of Leah; Reuben, Jacob's firstborn, and Simeon, and Levi, and Judah, and Issachar, and Zebulun: [24], The sons of Rachel; Joseph, and Benjamin: [25], And the sons of Bilhah, Rachel's handmaid; Dan, and Naphtali: [26], And the sons of Zilpah, Leah's handmaid; Gad, and Asher: these are the sons of Jacob, who were born to him in Paddanaram.
Your just wasting everyone's time, you have provided not one verse to support your idea. The idea that Gentiles become Jews.

If anything, your actually proving that the descendants of Jacob will become Israel. In other words, Jews are Jews by birth right.

I am shocked that you posted so many verses that had nothing to do with your claim.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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As I said before, Abraham was not a Jew and Abraham was not a citizen of Israel. Why do you quote verses about Abraham, when we are discussing Israel and the Gentiles?

Hello David, your a funny one.

Your response here only shows you did not read the post and the scriptures you are responding to, or you are disagreeing simply for the sake of a disagreement.

The point being made with the post and scriptures is to show the ORIGIN of where the name ISRAEL comes from, and who are ISRAEL in the OLD and NEW Testament.

Let's summarise and go through the first section of the post slowly...

* You do agree that the promise from God was to make Abraham's seed a great nation correct?

* You do agree that Jacab was a descendent or from the seed of Abraham correct?

* It was Jacob that took the birthright from Esau and wrestled with the Angel then latter God blessed Jacab and changed his name to ISRAEL correct?

ISRAEL [formally, Jacob] then had 12 sons that made up the 12 tribes of ISRAEL [formally, Jacob] correct?

The fourth son of ISRAEL [formally, Jacob] was Judah correct? According to the Bible this is the root or origin of the Jews who are all descendents [or the seed] of Abraham.

According to scripture then, Abraham is the father of all ISRAEL including the Jews who's origin is from the tribe or Judah and latter included some of the other tribes.

Just some interesting artivles (side interest)

Who is a Jew [Judaism 101]

Origins of the Words "Jew" and "Judaism"

The original name for the people we now call Jews was Hebrews. The word "Hebrew" (in Hebrew, "Ivri") is first used in the Torah to describe Abraham (Gen. 14:13). The word is apparently derived from the name Eber, one of Abraham's ancestors. Another tradition teaches that the word comes from the word "eyver," which means "the other side," referring to the fact that Abraham came from the other side of the Euphrates, or referring to the fact Abraham was separated from the other nations morally and spiritually.

Another name used for the people is Children of Israel or Israelites, which refers to the fact that the people are descendants of Jacob, who was also called Israel.

The word "Jew" (in Hebrew, "Yehudi") is derived from the name Judah, which was the name of one of Jacob's twelve sons. Judah was the ancestor of one of the tribes of Israel, which was named after him. Likewise, the word Judaism literally means "Judah-ism," that is, the religion of the Yehudim. Other sources, however, say that the word "Yehudim" means "People of G-d," because the first three letters of "Yehudah" are the same as the first three letters of G-d's four-letter name.

Originally, the term Yehudi referred specifically to members of the tribe of Judah, as distinguished from the other tribes of Israel. However, after the death of King Solomon, the nation of Israel was split into two kingdoms: the kingdom of Judah and the kingdom of Israel (I Kings 12; II Chronicles 10). After that time, the word Yehudi could properly be used to describe anyone from the kingdom of Judah, which included the tribes of Judah, Benjamin and Levi, as well as scattered settlements from other tribes. The most obvious biblical example of this usage is in Esther 2:5, where Mordecai is referred to as both a Yehudi and a member of the tribe of Benjamin.

Origins
[Jews from wiki]

According to the Hebrew Bible narrative, Jewish ancestry is traced back to the Biblical patriarchs such as Abraham, his son Isaac, Isaac's son Jacob, and the Biblical matriarchs Sarah, Rebecca, Leah, and Rachel, who lived in Canaan. The Twelve Tribes are described as descending from the twelve sons of Jacob. Jacob and his family migrated to Ancient Egypt after being invited to live with Jacob's son Joseph by the Pharaoh himself. The patriarchs' descendants were later enslaved until the Exodus led by Moses, after which the Israelites conquered Canaan under Moses' successor Joshua, went through the period of the Biblical judges after the death of Joshua, then through the mediation of Samuel became subject to a king, Saul, who was succeeded by David and then Solomon, after whom the United Monarchy ended and was split into a separate Kingdom of Israel and a Kingdom of Judah. The Kingdom of Judah is described as comprising the Tribe of Judah, the Tribe of Benjamin, and partially the Tribe of Levi, and later adding other tribes who migrated there from the Kingdom of Israel.[74][75] Modern Jews claim lineage from the Tribes of Judah and Benjamin since the ten northern tribes were lost following Assyrian captivity.

.............

Now David, your comment that Abraham is not a Jew is irrelavant to the point shown through the scriptures that were posted in post # 394 linked.

Summary...

* Abraham is the father of all ISRAEL including the Jews [Judah] according to the scriptures.

* ISRAEL is a name given by God to all his people that BELIEVE and FOLLOW him.

* All those in the NEW COVENANT who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD according to the scriptures are God's ISRAEL.

* If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL then you are not a part of the NEW COVENANT promise.

Hope this helps.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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So does everyone.

Well nothing to support Gentiles becoming Jews.

This says nothing about Gentiles becoming Jews?
It just says all nations are blessed through Abraham's descendants.

What is the relevance of that paragraph?

This paragraph has nothing to do with supporting the idea that Gentiles have to become Jews.

What are you doing LGW, none of this information is applicable to the argument of yours.

Nothing about Gentiles becoming Jews.

The direct descendants of Jacob become the twelve tribes called Israel.

Still no mention of Gentiles becoming Jews.

Your just wasting everyone's time, you have provided not one verse to support your idea. The idea that Gentiles become Jews.

If anything, your actually proving that the descendants of Jacob will become Israel. In other words, Jews are Jews by birth right.

I am shocked that you posted so many verses that had nothing to do with your claim.

Hello David,

Why are you trying to address part of a post which is mean't to only show the origin of ISRAEL and Abraham as the farther of ISRAEL and Jews in the OLD Testament, then leave out and discussion and reference to the scriptures in the NEW Testament that show who God's people are under the NEW COVENANT?

Sorry David your post does not make any sense. You have not adressed a single point or scripture in the post you are trying to respond to except to say God's Word is not saying what it is saying.

If you disagree with post # 394 please show why. To date all you have done is say you do not agree with the scriptures that are not relevant to the topic of gentiles being a part of God's ISRAEL under the new covenant when the section you are responding to is talking about the origin of ISRAEL from the OLD Covenant. Then leave out the NEW COVENANT scriptures showing that Gentile believers are now a part of God's ISRAEL.

If you cannot prove the post wrong with God's WORD then we should believe the WORD of God over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God.

Maybe you can pray about it more at home if you are not able to respond. Or you are free to believe as you wish. We are all only accountable to God come judgment day and we may have to agree to dissagree.

There is a lot of scripture that dissagrees with you David and you have provided none except to ignore the scriptures posted showing who God's ISRAEL are in the NEW COVENANT.

Hope this helps.
 
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