The Bishops are now Making Threats against the US

Davidnic · Jun 17, 2018

Supportive Services For Veteran Families

I am low-balling this at dozens of links. But I think the point is made that refutes the implication that the Catholic Church and her Bishops do not work to support veterans

Davidnic · Jun 17, 2018

Not counting federal grants and using Church funds not counting Knights or CRS... The Bishops have spent 4 million more on Veterans than on migrants and refugees

Davidnic · Jun 17, 2018

Are we doing homeless next?

Housing - Homelessness

Stabat Mater dolorosa · Jun 17, 2018

AvilaSurfer said:
Context

Sounds like nitpicking...

eastcoast_bsc said:
So open borders? Will you assist the tax payers in footing the bill, or will you be like the Bishops who talk the talk but don't walk the walk.

Remember the Bishops wear fine clothes and eat the best meals while living in comfortable homes.

It's just something to keep in mind for all of us.
We'd like to shut the door behind us whenever we get the chance which is why I posted this as a reminder.

AvilaSurfer · Jun 17, 2018

Anthony the Great said:
Sounds like nitpicking...

Except it’s not.

AvilaSurfer · Jun 17, 2018

Davidnic said:
Supportive Services For Veteran Families

I am low-balling this at dozens of links. But I think the point is made that refutes the implication that the Catholic Church and her Bishops do not work to support veterans

I don’t think anyone claimed that.
My statement stands.

Davidnic · Jun 17, 2018

AvilaSurfer said:
I don’t think anyone claimed that.
My statement stands.

It was indeed implied by whataboutism.

eastcoast_bsc said:
Keep in mind that our Veterans are committing suicide at alarming rates and experience homelessness , drug abuse, alcoholism statistically higher than the norm.

Nothing was done in 8 years of the Obama administration to help these Vets and not a peep from the Bishops.

eastcoast_bsc said:
Where are the Catholic financed shelters and housing for Vets?

I respectfully disagree with your statement because we can't wait for the Democrats and the Republicans to do the right thing before following the teachings of the Catholic Church.

The incompetence of our parties should not prevent us from following Catholic teaching in relating to all those in need.

The Church is not calling for open borders but for Humane treatment.

Granted that is difficult with a system that's been broken for decades. But there are things that can't be done.

LivingWordUnity · Jun 17, 2018

Davidnic said:
It was indeed implied by whataboutism.

I respectfully disagree with your statement because we can't wait for the Democrats and the Republicans to do the right thing before following the teachings of the Catholic Church.

The incompetence of our parties should not prevent us from following Catholic teaching in relating to all those in need.

The Church is not calling for open borders but for Humane treatment.

Granted that is difficult with a system that's been broken for decades. But there are things that can't be done.

What exactly would our bishops call humane or inhumane treatment?

Is deportation considered inhumane by them?

Would a bishop consider it inhumane to build a wall?
.

Davidnic · Jun 18, 2018

LivingWordUnity said:
What exactly would our bishops call humane or inhumane treatment?

Is deportation considered inhumane by them?

Would a bishop consider it inhumane to build a wall?
.

Have you read their statements?

eastcoast_bsc · Jun 18, 2018

Davidnic said:
And the Bishops fund through Catholic Charities veterans housing assistance and legal assistance

https://catholiccharitiescamden.org/veteran-services/

All I see is a statement and a vague website asking for money.
I guarantee what they do is point them to services such as New England Center and Home for Veterans

This group is a model for how Veterans should be treated.

All I see and read is a group of people virtue signaling and waving their fingers.

Look at California their schools and hospitals are being inundated with refugees and they teeter on collapse.

Again, I am all for immigration but it needs to be controlled, orderly and not be a burden on the working class .

Cosmic Charlie · Jun 18, 2018

AvilaSurfer said:
Ok, you’re right, I skimmed the article. In that case I’ll fall back to: Until we take care of our homeless, vets and civilians, we have no room for immigrants.

They're not immigrants they are refugees. And no matter what you might think about about it refusing entry to the US of people seeking refugee is against both international and US law.

The Trump administration is violating the law.

Please try to wrap your head around that because that's what's happening.

And then, after violating the law by refusing refuge they are, to be very frank, kidnapping the children of those refugees without a plan to reunite them with their parents.

The Trump administration is deporting refugees without their children.

Please try to wrap your head around THAT.

The children of refugees aren't account for. Where are they ?

No one knows and ICE isn't saying.

The Trump administration is disappearing children.

For the love of God AS. This has to stop.

This isn't us vs. them political one-ups-manship. We, as a country, through our elected leaders have taken children from they parents, deported the parents and can't account for the children.

Do you not get this ?

This
has
to
stop.

Cosmic Charlie · Jun 18, 2018

Anyone on this thread who backs this horrible, brutal, immoral policy listen to all 7 minutes 47 second of this audio file

I dare you

Listen to Children Who’ve Just Been Separated From Their Parents at the Border — ProPublica

Davidnic · Jun 18, 2018

We have Bishops who have correctly said that supporting this kind of thing the division of families, doing mental harm to children, or sending them back to where they are in proximate Danger.... Is very much like driving someone to an abortion clinic.

And that is right in many cases we are talking about material cooperation. It's incompatible with being pro-life. And in defense I see people attacking the Bishops rather than standing for the teachings of the Church.

eastcoast_bsc · Jun 18, 2018

Davidnic said:
We have Bishops who have correctly said that supporting this kind of thing the division of families, doing mental harm to children, or sending them back to where they are in proximate Danger.... Is very much like driving someone to an abortion clinic.

And that is right in many cases we are talking about material cooperation. It's incompatible with being pro-life. And in defense I see people attacking the Bishops rather than standing for the teachings of the Church.

A senior administration official who asked not to be identified said the Department of Health and Human Services has been taking in about 250 children per day in recent weeks. HHS is the agency that is taking in children when they are separated from their families.

An HHS official added that the agency expects to be taking about 250 kids each day at least for the next two months. If that estimate holds, HHS could be caring for 18,500 more children by the end of August.

Trump administration could be holding 30,000 border kids by August, officials say

It is obvious that this is being done on purpose to exert pressure on the administration . They also understand the useful idiots in the media who will breathlessly bleat on the horror of it all.

Maybe we can get every Catholic family to take in a family and provide economic assistance.

Davidnic · Jun 18, 2018

You've just stated a classic logical fallacy (ad hominem of the tu quoque subset). Essentially question the character of those who have the opposite point of view and deflect from the actual point by the implication of hypocrisy.

So should abortion be legal because every Catholic Family and pro-life person isn't adopting an unwanted baby?

The question you asked has the exact same logical construction used by pro-choice proponents. It's a logical fallacy for them and it's a logical fallacy now.

The implication is that the moral validity of an action is determined by the individual's ability to offer direct personal assistance. That's not how morality is determined. So there are two errors in the logic of the statement. One we already cited logical fallacy. And two the relativism of the assumption of how morality is determined

Davidnic · Jun 18, 2018

You've just stated a classic logical fallacy. So should abortion be legal because every Catholic Family and pro-life person isn't adopting an unwanted baby?

The question you asked is the exact same logic used by pro-choice proponents. It's a logical fallacy for them and it's a logical fallacy now.

The implication is that the moral validity of an action is determined by the individual's ability to offer direct personal assistance. That's not how morality is determined.

Davidnic · Jun 18, 2018

Look around the internet and make a list of the kinds of arguments used to oppose the Bishops on this.

You see the abandonment of pro-life logic and the use of normally pro-choice logic.

You see Reformation era level attacks on the Bishops personally.

You see whataboutism constantly employed to create a false moral dichotomy in opposition to the normal Catholic standard of moral theology. The Catholic view is based on an object, intention, and circumstance. In this case how a normal object the securing of borders...not evil. Is made evil by either the intent or the circumstance of how it is carried out. In this case you can argue intent... But any argument in favor falls apart at circumstance. It can only be justified by relativism, whataboutism, and logical fallacy

In essence you see every trick in the book that's been pulled against the pro-life movement for decades now being employed at the Bishops by many claiming to be pro-life.

And you see arguments that are based in moral relativism growing daily.

So when you see this opposition all around the internet taking up pro-choice logic.... That should be a pretty good indication of the Bishops being right about this being a life issue.

eastcoast_bsc · Jun 18, 2018

The Trump administration could be holding 30,000 illegal immigrant children by the end of August as a result of its push to enforce federal immigration laws, which has led to the separation of children from their parents and guardians as those adults are prosecuted.

A senior administration official who asked not to be identified said the Department of Health and Human Services has been taking in about 250 children per day in recent weeks. HHS is the agency that is taking in children when they are separated from their families.

An HHS official added that the agency expects to be taking about 250 kids each day at least for the next two months. If that estimate holds, HHS could be caring for 18,500 more children by the end of August.

So when does it end?

No fallacy here.

We pretty much have open borders now and Mexico understand the optics of showing crying children .

States like California are getting crushed trying to provide services i.e. Hospital care, education and various entitlements.

eastcoast_bsc · Jun 18, 2018

I am simply saying we need to have congress do the will of the people and pass a sane and common sense solution that takes everything into account.

We don't the Bishops pretending to be holier than though. We have seen that time and again through the various scandals to be untrue.

Davidnic · Jun 18, 2018

You'll get no disagreement for me or the Bishops about needing a sane common-sense approach.

Where a disagreement lies is in the actions currently being taken in the circumstances tipping a neutral objective act to an immoral one.

And it's not holier than thou, they are in line with Catholic teaching. Catholic teaching leads us to a holy life even though it is taught by imperfect men.

Davidnic · Jun 18, 2018

Whatever may or may not be the personal flaws of any Bishop does not change the correctness of the teaching.

The Bishops are now Making Threats against the US

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