Are our sins COVERED, or TAKEN AWAY.

1stcenturylady · Jun 18, 2018

Romans 4:6 "just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”

But what must David or any Old Testament saint, do to assure the covering of their sin? Sacrifice bulls and goats, etc.

So, here is the question. How many still believe the popular doctrine that the blood of Jesus covers our sins, so as to not be seen by the Father? In other words, like the prodigal son's cloak that covered the filth beneath?

Read all the Word again. Study.

Hebrews 10:
3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins...11And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins.

John 1:
29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! 30 This is He of whom I said, ‘After me comes a Man who is preferred before me, for He was before me.’

Romans 11:27
"For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins.”

1 John 3:5-9
5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Call me Nic · Jun 18, 2018

Both.

Cover our sins = Justification.
Taking away our sins = Sanctification.

RDKirk · Jun 18, 2018

Nicolaus Mourer said:
Both.

Cover our sins = Justification.
Taking away our sins = Sanctification.

Have to ponder that a bit. But considering what was just quoted from Hebrews, it appears to make sense.

Chinchilla · Jun 18, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
Romans 4:6 "just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”

But what must David or any Old Testament saint, do to assure the covering of their sin? Sacrifice bulls and goats, etc.

So, here is the question. How many still believe the popular doctrine that the blood of Jesus covers our sins, so as to not be seen by the Father? In other words, like the prodigal son's cloak that covered the filth beneath?

Read all the Word again. Study.

Hebrews 10:
3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins...11And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins.

John 1:
29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! 30 This is He of whom I said, ‘After me comes a Man who is preferred before me, for He was before me.’

Romans 11:27
"For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins.”

1 John 3:5-9
5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

In short , It can't cover your sins because they are not there anymore .
1 John 3:9

RDKirk · Jun 18, 2018

Chinchilla said:
In short , It can't cover your sins because they are not there anymore .
1 John 3:9

Well, no. Whatever old sin you had is still there--in the ultimate sense, nothing can truly be lost to the eternal mind of God--but covered, which is to say, God will not hold you to account for them. But you are able to "sin no more."

Chinchilla · Jun 18, 2018

RDKirk said:
Well, no. Whatever old sin you had is still there--in the ultimate sense, nothing can truly be lost to the eternal mind of God--but covered, which is to say, God will not hold you to account for them. But you are able to "sin no more."

No my sins were put on Christ 2 Corinthians 5:21 I died with Christ Galatians 2:20 that's what being born again means being born without sin .

Call me Nic · Jun 18, 2018

Chinchilla said:
No my sins were put on Christ 2 Corinthians 5:21 I died with Christ Galatians 2:20 that's what being born again means being born without sin .

Kind of yes, kind of no. We are indeed born again in the Spirit without sin, being quickened by God in the Spirit (Ephesians 2:1), yet while our physical body is crucified along Christ in the eyes of God and our spirit raised with him (Romans 8:10), it is still alive in it's state of sin until death (Proverbs 20:9). We serve sin in our physical body, but in our mind, heart, and spirit, we serve God (Romans 7:22-25).

RDKirk · Jun 18, 2018

Chinchilla said:
No my sins were put on Christ 2 Corinthians 5:21 I died with Christ Galatians 2:20 that's what being born again means being born without sin .

So that means a murderer who finds Jesus in prison gets to walk out a free man? If the records of men still list the crime, do you think it no longer exists? If that were the case, all earthly record of the crime would have been mystically erased when the man became a believer, and the warden would say, "Who is that man over there? We have no record of that man." Even the result of his crime would have been erased, and his murder victim would rise from the grave.

No, the sin still exists. It's that God will not hold him accountable for it.

Chinchilla · Jun 18, 2018

Nicolaus Mourer said:
Kind of yes, kind of no. We are indeed born again in the Spirit without sin, being quickened by God in the Spirit (Ephesians 2:1), yet while our physical body is crucified along Christ in the eyes of God and our spirit raised with him (Romans 8:10), it is still alive in it's state of sin until death (Proverbs 20:9). We serve sin in our physical body, but in our mind, heart, and spirit, we serve God (Romans 7:22-25).

Yes body needs to die or needs to be changed by God at the Day of the Lord. This body actually belongs to him not to me anymore he paid for it .
1 Corinthians 6:20

But Christ took the sin away not covered it , animals could only cover for a year Christ took it once for all as stated by OP .

Chinchilla · Jun 18, 2018

RDKirk said:
So that means a murderer who finds Jesus in prison gets to walk out a free man? If the records of men still list the crime, do you think it no longer exists? If that were the case, all earthly record of the crime would have been mystically erased when the man became a believer, and the warden would say, "Who is that man over there? We have no record of that man." Even the result of his crime would have been erased, and his murder victim would rise from the grave.

No, the sin still exists. It's that God will not hold him accountable for it.

Your flesh is imprisoned don't know why you think of yourself as flesh tho . You are spirit inside of that flesh . God did not murder your flesh he just gave you new birth so you have two births one of man and one of God .

Also about prisoners , when Jesus came he set captives free ( Luke 4:18 fulfilled Isaiah 61)

If you want analogy to how it worked .
Barabas was murderer and should have been crucified . He was found guilty and was waiting for soldiers to come for him . They took him and replaced him for Christ which took his place . Even tho Barabas was guilty he was set free and was no more guilty because Christ died in his place .

Call me Nic · Jun 18, 2018

Chinchilla said:
Yes body needs to die or needs to be changed by God at the Day of the Lord. This body actually belongs to him not to me anymore he paid for it .
1 Corinthians 6:20

But Christ took the sin away not covered it , animals could only cover for a year Christ took it once for all as stated by OP .

When we receive Christ, we receive remission of sins. Remission is defined as "the cancellation of a debt, charge, or penalty."

Men who are saved do not have their sin imputed, or accounted, unto them. Romans 4:6-8 "Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin." The Lord doesn't impute our sin unto us due to the righteousness of Jesus Christ - the blood of Christ literally covers ours sin, which causes the wrath of God to pass over us. This is why Jesus was crucified on the Passover, and is the Passover Lamb - because his shed blood washed us, cleansed us, and covered us, making us white as snow. We will continue to sin until we die and are judged, but when we are judged, we will be judged quickened through Christ, not having our sins accounted toward us, but accounted toward Christ, who was the sufficient atonement.

JohnRabbit · Jun 18, 2018

Nicolaus Mourer said:
Both.

Cover our sins = Justification.
Taking away our sins = Sanctification.

Chinchilla · Jun 18, 2018

Nicolaus Mourer said:
When we receive Christ, we receive remission of sins. Remission is defined as "the cancellation of a debt, charge, or penalty."

Men who are saved do not have their sin imputed, or accounted, unto them. Romans 4:6-8 "Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin." The Lord doesn't impute our sin unto us due to the righteousness of Jesus Christ - the blood of Christ literally covers ours sin, which causes the wrath of God to pass over us. This is why Jesus was crucified on the Passover, and is the Passover Lamb - because his shed blood washed us, cleansed us, and covered us, making us white as snow. We will continue to sin until we die and are judged, but when we are judged, we will be judged quickened through Christ, not having our sins accounted toward us, but accounted toward Christ, who was the sufficient atonement.

I believe that we ( Christians ) are not judged because we were alredy judged at the cross , only our works are judged at Judgement Seat of Christ ( 1 Corinthians 3:13-15 ) . At the other judgement called Great White Throne Judgement we judge with Christ ( 1 Corinthians 6:2 , Revelation 2:26-27)these who were not of first resurrection but of the second resurrection and are judged according to thier works . ( Revelation 20:11-15 ) It says that hell gave people there to be judged , Christians never go to hell they are present with LORD after death (2 Corinthians 5:8) .

Call me Nic · Jun 18, 2018

Chinchilla said:
I believe that we ( Christians ) are not judged because we were alredy judged at the cross , only our works are judged at Judgement Seat of Christ ( 1 Corinthians 3:13-15 ) . At the other judgement called Great White Throne Judgement we judge with Christ ( 1 Corinthians 6:2 , Revelation 2:26-27)these who were not of first resurrection but of the second resurrection and are judged according to thier works . ( Revelation 20:11-15 ) It says that hell gave people there to be judged , Christians never go to hell they are present with LORD after death (2 Corinthians 5:8) .

Hebrews 9:27 "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgement:"
2 Corinthians 5:10 "For we must all appear before the judgement seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."
Romans 14:10 "But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgement seat of Christ."

Judged after we die.

Call me Nic · Jun 18, 2018

Chinchilla said:
I believe that we ( Christians ) are not judged because we were alredy judged at the cross , only our works are judged at Judgement Seat of Christ ( 1 Corinthians 3:13-15 ) . At the other judgement called Great White Throne Judgement we judge with Christ ( 1 Corinthians 6:2 , Revelation 2:26-27)these who were not of first resurrection but of the second resurrection and are judged according to thier works . ( Revelation 20:11-15 ) It says that hell gave people there to be judged , Christians never go to hell they are present with LORD after death (2 Corinthians 5:8) .

I agree with you kind of. Our works are indeed judged at the judgement seat of Christ, for we are already made alive, but it is judgement nonetheless. And you're right, Christians won't ever go to hell.

DamianWarS · Jun 18, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
Romans 4:6 "just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”

But what must David or any Old Testament saint, do to assure the covering of their sin? Sacrifice bulls and goats, etc.

So, here is the question. How many still believe the popular doctrine that the blood of Jesus covers our sins, so as to not be seen by the Father? In other words, like the prodigal son's cloak that covered the filth beneath?

Read all the Word again. Study.

Hebrews 10:
3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins...11And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins.

John 1:
29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! 30 This is He of whom I said, ‘After me comes a Man who is preferred before me, for He was before me.’

Romans 11:27
"For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins.”

1 John 3:5-9
5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Depends what are the perceived products of "taken away sins" vs "covered sin". It is my perspective that we need Christ just as much before scantificaltion then we do after which that feels like it's leans towards "covered". I think we miss the point however when we focus on what happens to our sin as our goal... the goal is not forgiveness the goal is communion with God and scantificaltion is a needed process to reach that goal.

1stcenturylady · Jun 19, 2018

RDKirk said:
Have to ponder that a bit. But considering what was just quoted from Hebrews, it appears to make sense.

How does the scripture in Hebrews make that make sense. Elaborate...

1stcenturylady · Jun 19, 2018

DamianWarS said:
Depends what are the perceived products of "taken away sins" vs "covered sin". It is my perspective that we need Christ just as much before scantificaltion then we do after which that feels like it's leans towards "covered". I think we miss the point however when we focus on what happens to our sin as our goal... the goal is not forgiveness the goal is communion with God and scantificaltion is a needed process to reach that goal.

The overwhelming power Jesus gives us to make us free only makes me closer to Him. The Bible comes alive, and He gives us understanding of what He means in Scripture as the Author, not what some denomination says He means.

What I've noticed on the forums is many speak from their denominational background, not the Spirit of Truth.

Call me Nic · Jun 19, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
What I've noticed on the forums is many speak from their denominational background, not the Spirit of Truth.

Oh! I didn't know that you were the prophetess of our day that speaks the truth no one else can read for themselves. My apologies, I didn't know we were in the presence of someone so holy.

bling · Jun 19, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
Romans 4:6 "just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”

But what must David or any Old Testament saint, do to assure the covering of their sin? Sacrifice bulls and goats, etc.

So, here is the question. How many still believe the popular doctrine that the blood of Jesus covers our sins, so as to not be seen by the Father? In other words, like the prodigal son's cloak that covered the filth beneath?

Read all the Word again. Study.

Hebrews 10:
3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins...11And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins.

John 1:
29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! 30 This is He of whom I said, ‘After me comes a Man who is preferred before me, for He was before me.’

Romans 11:27
"For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins.”

1 John 3:5-9
5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Romans 4:6 "just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,

And whose sins are covered;

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”

It is hard to know what David was thinking when using very poetic language and saying “cover”. Paul is using the quote to make a point about being saved by grace and not works, so it does not matter if you speak of covering your sins by grace or taking your sins away by grace.

Sins are not things that can be covered or physically carried so what are we talking about: the guilt of sin, the punishment or discipline for sin, the debt of sin or something else?

Do you want to still be in possession of the guilt/debt/punishment of your sins and just have them “covered” or feel free from your sins and have the guilt/debt/punishment behind you or taken away?

Symbolically the scape goat carried something away from the sinner, but the scape goat itself did not become a sinner, so what happened to your unaware of sins (intentional sins had severe punishment)?

When you did some rebellious disobedience toward your parents, they would both forgive you and lovingly discipline you. It was only after you accepted Loving discipline and learned from it you grew closer to your parents in the teaching moment of being disciplined.

For my feeling of guilt to be taken away I need both forgiveness and to go through fair/just disciplining, since my parents used it as a teaching growing experience. Afterwards I felt closer to my parents and could justly stand by them comfortably.

With the cross we can experience fair/just discipline for our sins by being crucified with Christ and thus can be justified before God.

Are our sins COVERED, or TAKEN AWAY.

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