TogetherInHim

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16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

Jesus said everyone would “perish” unless he gave us an “everlasting” life, a life that does not perish.

Since we know that all who live, will perish biologically being mortal, then we know that Jesus was not talking about perishing biologically (since even those who believe in him still perish biologically).

Question: If Jesus was not speaking about the body perishing, then what exactly will “perish” (Defined as: die, lose life, come to nothing, depart wholly) if he does not give “everlasting” life?

Question: If everyone continues to live on “eternally” after the death of their body in heaven or hell forever, then what exactly does Jesus give that is “everlasting”, that those who “perish”, do not receive?​


See answer: www.WhoGoesToHell.com



KJV Dictionary Definition: perish

PER'ISH, v.i.L. pereo, supposed to be compounded of per and eo, to go; literally, to depart wholly.

1. To die; to lose life in any manner

2. To die; to wither and decay; applied to plants.

3. To waste away; as, a leg or an arm has perished.

4. To be in a state of decay or passing away.

5. To be destroyed; to come to nothing.
 

SkyWriting

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Question: If Jesus was not speaking about the body perishing, then what exactly will “perish” (Defined as: die, lose life, come to nothing, depart wholly) if he does not give “everlasting” life?

Question: If everyone continues to live on “eternally” after the death of their body in heaven or hell forever, then what exactly does Jesus give that is “everlasting”, that those who “perish”, do not receive?​

Everlasting life in the company of the Creator is true living. Not what we are doing now.
If you are not living the Life you were created for, then you have perished.

You can be "perished" in any other situation, if not with our Creator.
If you are trying to avoid eternal misery by being evaporated, either
way you lose your intended destiny.
 
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Radagast

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KJV Dictionary Definition: perish

PER'ISH, v.i.L. pereo, supposed to be compounded of per and eo, to go; literally, to depart wholly.

1. To die; to lose life in any manner

2. To die; to wither and decay; applied to plants.

3. To waste away; as, a leg or an arm has perished.

4. To be in a state of decay or passing away.

5. To be destroyed; to come to nothing.

We don't decide the meaning of Greek Bible words like ἀπόλλυμι with an English dictionary.

And you linked to a web site attacking Christians. Are you a Christian?
 
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Kevin Snow

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It is the spirit which gives life.

It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. ~John 6:63

Hell is the second death. You die once in the flesh then either you are given eternal life by the Holy Spirit or you are cast into hell which is the second death.
 
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Acts2:38

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We don't decide the meaning of Greek Bible words like ἀπόλλυμι with an English dictionary.

Curious.

Does this mean bibles in any other language than Koine Greek are false?

Does this also imply that from ANY language, one cannot decide the meaning of each language with any other languages dictionary?

People have been interpreting and studying other languages for a very long time. It's how we can communicate with those of that language. Those who study those languages put forth dictionaries and translate those languages for the rest of those people who do not study it and they copy those materials to other languages for them to read and enjoy too.

The Koine Greek is no different here. It too can be translated to our language among others. Even English words can have multiple uses/meanings pending on the context of the statements made. So long as one places the right meaning to the context, I see no problem with using the "Strongs" among other books to help one understand the Greek words.
 
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HypnoToad

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16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

Jesus said everyone would “perish” unless he gave us an “everlasting” life, a life that does not perish.

Since we know that all who live, will perish biologically being mortal, then we know that Jesus was not talking about perishing biologically (since even those who believe in him still perish biologically).

Question: If Jesus was not speaking about the body perishing, then what exactly will “perish” (Defined as: die, lose life, come to nothing, depart wholly) if he does not give “everlasting” life?

Question: If everyone continues to live on “eternally” after the death of their body in heaven or hell forever, then what exactly does Jesus give that is “everlasting”, that those who “perish”, do not receive?​


See answer: www.WhoGoesToHell.com



KJV Dictionary Definition: perish

PER'ISH, v.i.L. pereo, supposed to be compounded of per and eo, to go; literally, to depart wholly.

1. To die; to lose life in any manner

2. To die; to wither and decay; applied to plants.

3. To waste away; as, a leg or an arm has perished.

4. To be in a state of decay or passing away.

5. To be destroyed; to come to nothing.
So, you seem to want to claim annihilationism.

As others have said, you have to look at the Greek, not an English translation, if you want to see what is really being said.

The word "perish" in that verse is "apollymi".

Let's look at another place "apollymi" is used.

"So he answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”" - Matthew 15:24

Those "lost" sheep are "apollymi" sheep.

So, are you claiming Jesus was sent to those who didn't exist? Or should it be understood that they did exist, but they existed in a state of spiritual ruin?
 
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Shempster

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I have been told over and over through the last 30 years that "perish" either means conscious, physical and mental pain and suffering OR it means being locked up in a dark hole with no contact with other souls or God.
That's what they keep telling me.
 
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ClementofA

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The Greek word for perishing is used in Scripture for the "lost" sheep & coin that were later found:

"8 “Or suppose a woman has ten silver coins[a] and loses one. Doesn’t she light a lamp, sweep the house and search carefully until she finds it? 9 And when she finds it, she calls her friends and neighbors together and says, ‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost coin.’ 10 In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.” (Lk.15:8-10)

The word "eternal" (aionion), transliterated into English as eonian, and the noun aion (eon), which correspond to the Hebrew olam, are often used in Scripture & ancient writings of finite duration:

Does aionios always mean eternal in ancient Koine Greek? - Christianity -  - City-Data Forum

John 3: KJV

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


Perish for how long & in what way? The same Greek word for "perish" is used of the prodigal son who was "lost" but later found.

More literal versions say:

16 For thus God loves the world, so that He gives His only-begotten Son, that everyone who is believing in Him should not be perishing, but may be having life eonian. (CLV)

16 for God did so love the world, that His Son—the only begotten—He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during. (YLT)

16 For God, so loved, the world, that, his Only Begotten Son, he gave,—that, whosoever believeth on him, might not perish, but have life age-abiding. (Ro)

16 Thus for loved the God the world, so that the son of himself the only-begotten he gave, that every one who believing into him, not may be destroyed, but may have life age-lasting. (Diaglott)

Not everyone will get EONIAN life, which pro Endless Hell club, anti universalist, versions mistranslate as "eternal life". Those who believe before they die get EONIAN life. They will live & reign with Christ for the 1000 years of the millennial EON (Rev.20). Unbelievers will not. They get saved later since God becomes "all in ALL" (1 Cor.15:22-28). For Jesus is the Lamb of God Who takes away the sin of the world (Jn.1:29), "the Saviour of the world" (John 4:42), Who will draw all to Himself (John 12:32).

John 3:16 says unbelievers "perish", not that they perish endlessly. If Jesus had wanted to say "perish endlessly" there was a Greek word for "endless" He could have used (aperantos, 1 Tim.1:4). He could have also used the words "no end" (Lk.1:33) of perishing. Clearly endless punishment is not the teaching of the Word of God.

"But there are those who find this an intolerable state of affairs, sometimes because of an earnest if misguided devotion to what they believe Scripture or tradition demands, sometimes because the idea of the eternal torment of the derelict appeals to some unpleasantly obvious emotional pathologies on their parts." Saint Origen | David Bentley Hart

>Believers and Supporters of Christian Universalism
 
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TogetherInHim

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Everlasting life in the company of the Creator is true living. Not what we are doing now.
If you are not living the Life you were created for, then you have perished.

You can be "perished" in any other situation, if not with our Creator.
If you are trying to avoid eternal misery by being evaporated, either
way you lose your intended destiny.


The word, "perish" is used 153 times in the bible. It is a defined word that has specific meanings. If we are at liberty to change the meaning of words, then we can make the word of God say anything we want.

To accept your answers to the TWO QUESTIONS, we would have to accept your new definitions of the word, "perish" to also mean, "Not true living, not what we are doing now" or, "to lose one's eternal destiny".

These are the only definitions according to the KJV Bible dictionary.

KJV Dictionary Definition: perish

PER'ISH, v.i.L. pereo, supposed to be compounded of per and eo, to go; literally, to depart wholly.

1. To die; to lose life in any manner

2. To die; to wither and decay; applied to plants.

3. To waste away; as, a leg or an arm has perished.

4. To be in a state of decay or passing away.

5. To be destroyed; to come to nothing.
 
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TogetherInHim

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We don't decide the meaning of Greek Bible words like ἀπόλλυμι with an English dictionary.

And you linked to a web site attacking Christians. Are you a Christian?

Yes, I am a Christian and I have a love for the word of God. The website does not attack Christians, it examines a study of a central Christian doctrinal belief that is in error.

The error is the merging of "salvation" from the curse of death that Adam brought upon the world, (which is the free, unearned gift of God), with our inheritance, the kingdom of God (also free, unearned gift of God) that we must "strive to enter" according to Jesus.

If you read the study, you will see a mountain of scriptural support and it is the key to understanding the "mysteries of the kingdom of heaven" hidden in the parables as Jesus told us.

Give it a read: www.WhoGoesToHell.com
 
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TogetherInHim

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It is the spirit which gives life.

It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. ~John 6:63

Hell is the second death. You die once in the flesh then either you are given eternal life by the Holy Spirit or you are cast into hell which is the second death.

That's what I used to think. That is the accepted Christian doctrine. You are in good company.

Bereans examined a matter thoroughly and then determine "if these things are so".

The "second death" can only come to those who have received the "second life" having been born again in the spirit. Only Jesus gives eternal life. It is only then that we can exist eternally in one of two places, heaven with the Father, or hell cut off from the Father forever.

Hell was created to imprison eternal beings, (beings that are not mortal and can not perish), Satan and his angels and those who receive the mark of the beast. Once we have accepted Jesus as our Savior, we have been "born into the spirit" and have been given an eternal, no longer mortal, life. We can no longer perish as do mortal beings. Eternal life if everlasting.

If you are a serious lover of God's word, read the study and then make your determination of what you believe. I too thought as most do. Then I decided to investigate it and was blown away. It makes all of the parables make sense and distinguishes the difference between "salvation" from the curse of death that Adam brought upon the world, and our promised kingdom of heaven inheritance that Jesus said we must "strive to enter" (also unearned).

It's easy to dismiss any suggestion that crosses our preexisting understanding of scripture. That is why Nicodemus was so confounded...

9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

Read the study. Then decide: www.WhoGoesToHell.com
 
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TogetherInHim

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So, you seem to want to claim annihilationism.

As others have said, you have to look at the Greek, not an English translation, if you want to see what is really being said.

The word "perish" in that verse is "apollymi".

Let's look at another place "apollymi" is used.

"So he answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”" - Matthew 15:24

Those "lost" sheep are "apollymi" sheep.

So, are you claiming Jesus was sent to those who didn't exist? Or should it be understood that they did exist, but they existed in a state of spiritual ruin?


As with many words, "Perish" has multiple definitions. Every meaning does not apply in every instance of its use. In the case of "lost" as its meaning and use, no, it does not mean "non-existent" since what is lost, can still be "found". Once something or someone has perished, as in dead, it is then that the meaning used is:

1. To die; to lose life in any manner

2. To die; to wither and decay; applied to plants.

3. To waste away; as, a leg or an arm has perished.

4. To be in a state of decay or passing away.

5. To be destroyed; to come to nothing.
 
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TogetherInHim

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The Greek word for perishing is used in Scripture for the "lost" sheep & coin that were later found:

"8 “Or suppose a woman has ten silver coins[a] and loses one. Doesn’t she light a lamp, sweep the house and search carefully until she finds it? 9 And when she finds it, she calls her friends and neighbors together and says, ‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost coin.’ 10 In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.” (Lk.15:8-10)

The word "eternal" (aionion), transliterated into English as eonian, and the noun aion (eon), which correspond to the Hebrew olam, are often used in Scripture & ancient writings of finite duration.




Perish for how long & in what way? The same Greek word for "perish" is used of the prodigal son who was "lost" but later found.

More literal versions say:

16 For thus God loves the world, so that He gives His only-begotten Son, that everyone who is believing in Him should not be perishing, but may be having life eonian. (CLV)

16 for God did so love the world, that His Son—the only begotten—He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during. (YLT)

16 For God, so loved, the world, that, his Only Begotten Son, he gave,—that, whosoever believeth on him, might not perish, but have life age-abiding. (Ro)

16 Thus for loved the God the world, so that the son of himself the only-begotten he gave, that every one who believing into him, not may be destroyed, but may have life age-lasting. (Diaglott)

Not everyone will get EONIAN life, which pro Endless Hell club, anti universalist, versions mistranslate as "eternal life". Those who believe before they die get EONIAN life. They will live & reign with Christ for the 1000 years of the millennial EON (Rev.20). Unbelievers will not. They get saved later since God becomes "all in ALL" (1 Cor.15:22-28). For Jesus is the Lamb of God Who takes away the sin of the world (Jn.1:29), "the Saviour of the world" (John 4:42), Who will draw all to Himself (John 12:32).

He could have used (aperantos, 1 Tim.1:4). He could have also used the words "no end" (Lk.1:33) of perishing. Clearly endless punishment is not the teaching of the Word of God.

"But there are those who find this an intolerable state of affairs, sometimes because of an earnest if misguided devotion to what they believe Scripture or tradition demands, sometimes because the idea of the eternal torment of the derelict appeals to some unpleasantly obvious emotional pathologies on their parts." Saint Origen | David Bentley Hart

>Believers and Supporters of Christian Universalism

You said:
"Perish for how long & in what way? The same Greek word for "perish" is used of the prodigal son who was "lost" but later found."

As with many words, "Perish" has multiple definitions. Every meaning does not apply in every instance of its use. In the case of "lost" as its meaning and use, no, it does not mean "non-existent" since what is lost, can still be "found". Once something or someone has perished, as in "dead", it is then that the meaning used is:

1. To die; to lose life in any manner

2. To die; to wither and decay; applied to plants.

3. To waste away; as, a leg or an arm has perished.

4. To be in a state of decay or passing away.

5. To be destroyed; to come to nothing.


You said, "John 3:16 says unbelievers "perish", not that they perish endlessly. If Jesus had wanted to say "perish endlessly" there was a Greek word for "endless"...

An animal that has "perished" has permanently "come to nothing". The word "perish" does not need to be qualified with the word "endlessly". Perished already means completely, utterly and endlessly gone.

The Lord told Adam what he meant by, "you will surely die."

19"By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground,
Because from it you were taken; For you are dust, And to dust you shall return.”…​

Endlessly permanent and understandable as is.

…22Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”

Adam did not have everlasting life at this point! It is only after Jesus, the Lamb of God, redeems Adam will he receive eternal life. Otherwise, he would remain "dust", endlessly.

24...So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard the way to the tree of life.​

God prevented Adam from receiving eternal life through any other means than through Jesus Christ. It was always God's intention. The Lamb was slain at the foundation of the world. God's intention was to bring Satan and his angels (eternal beings) under the condemnation of the eternal law while giving man an opportunity to escape "death" and "hell" through Christ.

The shocking part of the study is not about those who perish, but rather about those who actually go to hell. The word says that hell was created for Satan, his angels, and those who receive the mark of the beast...all eternal beings...

If you are really a serious student of the word of God, then you should take a look and read the study...

www.WhoGoesToHell.com
 
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TogetherInHim

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I have been told over and over through the last 30 years that "perish" either means conscious, physical and mental pain and suffering OR it means being locked up in a dark hole with no contact with other souls or God.
That's what they keep telling me.

"That's what they keep telling me."

Precisely! But if you examine the definition of the word perish (and yes also in the Greek), it NEVER means "conscious living existence somewhere" when it is applied to those who die (rather than lost with an opportunity to be found).

Here is the definition. Do you see what "they" have been telling you for 30 years in the definition?- "that "perish" either means conscious, physical and mental pain and suffering OR it means being locked up in a dark hole with no contact with other souls or God."?

KJV Dictionary Definition: perish

PER'ISH, v.i.L. pereo, supposed to be compounded of per and eo, to go; literally, to depart wholly.

1. To die; to lose life in any manner

2. To die; to wither and decay; applied to plants.

3. To waste away; as, a leg or an arm has perished.

4. To be in a state of decay or passing away.

5. To be destroyed; to come to nothing.​
 
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ClementofA

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You said:
"Perish for how long & in what way? The same Greek word for "perish" is used of the prodigal son who was "lost" but later found."

As with many words, "Perish" has multiple definitions. Every meaning does not apply in every instance of its use. In the case of "lost" as its meaning and use, no, it does not mean "non-existent" since what is lost, can still be "found". Once something or someone has perished, as in "dead", it is then that the meaning used is:

1. To die; to lose life in any manner

2. To die; to wither and decay; applied to plants.

3. To waste away; as, a leg or an arm has perished.

4. To be in a state of decay or passing away.

5. To be destroyed; to come to nothing.

The prodigal son account refutes your theory, since he was also "dead" as well as being "lost" (same Greek word for "perish") & then later found & alive again.


You said, "John 3:16 says unbelievers "perish", not that they perish endlessly. If Jesus had wanted to say "perish endlessly" there was a Greek word for "endless"...

An animal that has "perished" has permanently "come to nothing".

Any human beings who are now dead, i.e. have perished, will be resurrected back to life. They didn't perish forever. They perished temporarily.


The word "perish" does not need to be qualified with the word "endlessly". Perished already means completely, utterly and endlessly gone.

I've seen no proof of that. If the Greek word for "perish" meant what you say, then the prodigal son, who perished & was dead, couldn't have been found and resurrected back to life. And if what you say were true, then why is the word "destruction" qualified with the Greek word aionios (in 2 Thess.1:9) which is often mistranslated as "eternal"?

The Lord told Adam what he meant by, "you will surely die."

19"By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground,
Because from it you were taken; For you are dust, And to dust you shall return.”…​

Endlessly permanent and understandable as is.

…22Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”

I'd say, according to John 5:28-29; Dan.12:2, Rev.20, etc, Adam will be resurrected back to life. His death isn't "Endlessly permanent". All who are dead will live again. Including those who "perished" in the flood of Noah's time, "perished" being the same Greek word again as at Jn.3:16 & in the prodigal son account:

2 Pet.3:6 through which the world of that time perished in the flood. 7 And by that same word, the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men

Those same people who "perished" in the flood will be resurrected.

Adam did not have everlasting life at this point! It is only after Jesus, the Lamb of God, redeems Adam will he receive eternal life. Otherwise, he would remain "dust", endlessly.

24...So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard the way to the tree of life.​

God prevented Adam from receiving eternal life through any other means than through Jesus Christ. It was always God's intention. The Lamb was slain at the foundation of the world. God's intention was to bring Satan and his angels (eternal beings) under the condemnation of the eternal law while giving man an opportunity to escape "death" and "hell" through Christ.

Love Omnipotent is willing and able to save angelic beings as well.


The shocking part of the study is not about those who perish, but rather about those who actually go to hell. The word says that hell was created for Satan, his angels, and those who receive the mark of the beast...all eternal beings...

If you are really a serious student of the word of God, then you should take a look and read the study...

www.WhoGoesToHell.com

I've been a serious student of the Holy Scriptures for decades, but many books are written & i'm not convinced this one is one i should be reading. Most here don't seem to have the time to even read a long post, let alone a book of that length. I'd recommend this one:

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf
 
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Shempster

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"That's what they keep telling me."

Precisely! But if you examine the definition of the word perish (and yes also in the Greek), it NEVER means "conscious living existence somewhere" when it is applied to those who die (rather than lost with an opportunity to be found).

Here is the definition. Do you see what "they" have been telling you for 30 years in the definition?- "that "perish" either means conscious, physical and mental pain and suffering OR it means being locked up in a dark hole with no contact with other souls or God."?

KJV Dictionary Definition: perish

PER'ISH, v.i.L. pereo, supposed to be compounded of per and eo, to go; literally, to depart wholly.

1. To die; to lose life in any manner

2. To die; to wither and decay; applied to plants.

3. To waste away; as, a leg or an arm has perished.

4. To be in a state of decay or passing away.

5. To be destroyed; to come to nothing.​

Agreed.

Now the question is: Is God, the creator of everything able to raise up that which is dead? We should know the answer.
Next question: God desires ALL to come to the knowledge of the truth. Is God able to get what he desires in his own way in his own time?
Last question: why would Jesus say that the good shepherd will leave the 99 to chase after the one lost sheep? Doesn't that suggest God will pursue every last soul to be restored?
 
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Radagast

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Curious.

Does this mean bibles in any other language than Koine Greek are false?

No, it means that the original Greek (and Hebrew for the OT) is more accurate than any translation.

The words in Bible translations never 100% match the meaning of the original. They're just as close as we can get.
 
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TogetherInHim

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The prodigal son account refutes your theory, since he was also "dead" as well as being "lost" (same Greek word for "perish") & then later found & alive again.

No, the prodigal son actually proves it perfectly.

When the prodigal son returned, his father had to explain to the son who remained at home how he viewed the prodigal son while he was away.

"24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found." (Luke 15:24)​

While the prodigal son was away by his act of free will to take his "inheritance" (living in his father's house- the kingdom), his father saw him as "lost" and "dead".

While he was still "alive" somewhere apart from the father, he was "lost" to his father. Although he was lost to his father, since he was still alive in the natural and would have the opportunity to repent and return...

17 And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!

18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,

19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.​

Since he returned, he did not die in the natural, which would have been permanent separation from the father's house (the kingdom of heaven).

The father also said that the prodigal was "dead" in his view. This illustrates that there are two states of being for those who were "his" and decided to leave and squander what was theirs by birth (having been born again). They are "lost" while "prodigal" and have the opportunity to repent, or they have died while prodigal, in which case they are dead without the opportunity to return.

If "lost" and "dead" have the same meaning and use, why did Jesus make a distinction twice in the parable? He did it so that we could see that there is hope for a prodigal that is "lost" and alive to repent, and that if a prodigal has died while away, he is "dead" to God with no hope of return.

You said:
Any human beings who are now dead, i.e. have perished, will be resurrected back to life. They didn't perish forever. They perished temporarily.​

Jesus said,

"25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"

The only human beings that will be resurrected are those who have entered the covenant with Jesus and "that believeth in me". To those who believe in him, he gives eternal life and they will be raised from the dead and stand before him to "give an account" of what they have done with what they have been given. See the parable of the Talents.

The only human beings that are resurrected have been given "salvation" from the curse of death that Adam brought into the world. They have also been given an unearned reserved "inheritance" (the kingdom of heaven dwelling place) that they will have "strived to enter" or squandered as in the case of the prodigal son.

You said,
I'd say, according to John 5:28-29; Dan.12:2, Rev.20, etc, Adam will be resurrected back to life. His death isn't "Endlessly permanent". All who are dead will live again. Including those who "perished" in the flood of Noah's time, "perished" being the same Greek word again as at Jn.3:16 & in the prodigal son account:

2 Pet.3:6 through which the world of that time perished in the flood. 7 And by that same word, the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men

Those same people who "perished" in the flood will be resurrected.​

You are correct. Adam will be resurrected. He was given a blood covenant to "cover" his sin when the Lord covered him with a sacrifice.

21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the Lord God make coats of skins, and clothed them. (Genesis 3)​

This is a foreshadow of the blood sacrifice that Jesus would fulfill. He will redeem and resurrect all those who have accepted his covenant.

You correctly referenced:

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.​

Jesus was speaking to the Jews. He was speaking to those who were in covenant with God about the graves of those covenant people who had died. He was telling them that at the promised resurrection of those who believed, that there is an "accounting" (again, see the parable of the Talents). Those that have "done the will of My Father" will enter. Those who did not, will be cast out. The "dead" that have no covenant "perish" and return to the dust.

The Jews, at the time of Jesus speaking considered the Gentiles to be "dogs", having no covenant. Jesus also acknowledged this:

26 The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation; and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter.

27 But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs. (Mark 7:25-27)
The Gentiles (the "dogs") promise of resurrection would come only after the Jews (the "children") had rejected the covenant.

You said,
Love Omnipotent is willing and able to save angelic beings as well.​

That is not what our Omnipotent God said he will do. He made hell for the devil, his angels, and all those who receive the mark of the beast.

You said,
I've been a serious student of the Holy Scriptures for decades, but many books are written & i'm not convinced this one is one i should be reading. Most here don't seem to have the time to even read a long post, let alone a book of that length.​

You are not convinced because, like most, we believe we already know everything that can be written. I have spent much time replying to your very valid objections and scripture references. You are a serious student of the Holy Scriptures. I would welcome as many seeming contradictions and scriptural challenges as you can present to see if this understanding can stand up to the highest scrutiny.

I agree that most people here don't seem to have the time to read even to this line in our discussion. Only those who diligently search the scriptures will see what God has intended only for the diligent lovers of His Holy Word.

I am enjoying our discussion. Thank you for your respectful and thoughtful reply!

www.WhoGoesToHell.com
 
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TogetherInHim

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Agreed.

Now the question is: Is God, the creator of everything able to raise up that which is dead? We should know the answer.
Next question: God desires ALL to come to the knowledge of the truth. Is God able to get what he desires in his own way in his own time?
Last question: why would Jesus say that the good shepherd will leave the 99 to chase after the one lost sheep? Doesn't that suggest God will pursue every last soul to be restored?


Excellent and reasonable questions!

You asked:
Now the question is: Is God, the creator of everything able to raise up that which is dead? We should know the answer.​

Yes! He raises everyone that has entered into covenant with His only begotten Son.

"25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"​

You asked:
God desires ALL to come to the knowledge of the truth. Is God able to get what he desires in his own way in his own time?​

Yes! God "desires" that none should perish...

3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. (1 Timothy 2:3-5)​

Jesus said,
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.​

God "desires" that none should perish so He gave the costly atonement to ALL- He gave His Son. He does not take away the free will to reject his offer and won't drag unrepentant, unwilling people into His kingdom. He is a God of liberty giving freedom to choose. He allows those who do not want Him to return to the dust, having the consequences of "death", brought into the world through Adam, fall on them.

In the very next verses with Nicodemus, Jesus said:

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. (John 3)​

You asked:
Why would Jesus say that the good shepherd will leave the 99 to chase after the one lost sheep? Doesn't that suggest God will pursue every last soul to be restored?​

Yes! While we live, Jesus will pursue every "sheep" (believer) who has gone astray. He has sent each of us the spirit of truth:

Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. (John 14:17)​

So we can see that the "world" that rejects or does not hear about Jesus, can not receive the spirit of Truth. "Lost" sheep (Believers) will be pursued until they repent (at which time the Shepherd rejoices), or they die in the natural, not having been regathered, and are resurrected to judgment. See the Parable of the Prodigal Son.

26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God. (Hebrews 10)​

This can only be speaking about those who have received and accepted the blood sacrifice of Jesus and then "trample under foot the Son of God". These, who believed Jesus for salvation from the curse of death and received the promise of eternal life, will be resurrected to Judgement.
 
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