OSAS does not survive the "sola scriptura" test. Now what?

Major1

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Actually, @jamesbond007 is 100% correct.

Maybe we should all stop checking out the net and go to a good church -- that would be the place to get some "good, biblical teaching"...in your very own words.

Or, even properly reading the bible would be of some help...
Jesus will be judging us by our good works.
John 5:28-29

You said...……..
"Jesus will be judging us by our good works."

That is incorrect sister. OUR sin was judged and placed upon the Lord Jesus Christ and He paid for our sin when He died for us.

Dr. Billy Graham correctly said that...…………
(Billy Graham Evangelistic Association.)
"One of the Bible’s greatest truths is that when we turn to Jesus Christ in repentance and faith, God forgives our sins and gives us the gift of eternal life. We no longer need to fear death or Hell or judgment, because Christ endured them for us. As the Bible says, “He forgave us all our sins” (Colossians 2:13).

At the same time, the Bible tells us that some day each of us will stand before God. If we have denied Him and refused to follow Him, we will be judged for our unbelief. God will say, “Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels” (Matthew 25:41). These are sobering words, and they should make every one of us stop and be sure of our commitment to Christ.

If we know Christ, however, our salvation is already assured. We’ll still stand before God – but not to be judged for our salvation. Instead, we will stand before God to be rewarded for our good deeds.

The Bible says, “We must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad” (2 Corinthians 5:10).

These too are sobering words, reminding us that we are accountable to God for the way we live as believers.
 
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Major1

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Where does it state that Jesus died in our place?
I can't remember.

It is called "Substitutionary Atonement". The exact words...…..from memory, I do not believe that the "Jesus died in our place" is in the Bible.

1 Peter 2:24 …….
And He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.”

Romans 5:8...…….
" But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

1 Corinthians 15:3 ...….
"For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures.

The correct exegesis of the Scriptures however is that Jesus Christ died in our place when He was crucified on the cross. We deserved to be the ones placed on that cross to die because we are the ones who live sinful lives. But Christ took the punishment on Himself in our place—He substituted Himself for us and took what we rightly deserved.
 
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Major1

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Actually, @jamesbond007 is 100% correct.

Maybe we should all stop checking out the net and go to a good church -- that would be the place to get some "good, biblical teaching"...in your very own words.

Or, even properly reading the bible would be of some help...
Jesus will be judging us by our good works.
John 5:28-29

Fact is that a lot of us to exactly that my dear sister. In fact I am sitting here at my desk, dressed for church and decided to see what had been posted.

Now that I have spoken to a couple of posts......I am going to church.
 
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Major1

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If the prodigal son had died while out in the pigpen, where would he be? Back in the arms of his father? I don't think so. He would have remained dead and lost for all of eternity.

But on the other hand, wasn't he his fathers son when he was in the pig pen.

He was his father's son when he was at home. He was his fathers son when he came home. When do you think that he stopped being his fathers son?
 
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Major1

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So in others words, we are our own redeemers.If that is true Jesus died in vain.Where on Earth did you get this stuff?Please go somewhere to get some good,Biblical teaching instead of a hodge- podge Of falsehoods and half Truths that was pulled out of a hat.Check out “ getgodsgift” for a good start.

It is Catholic dogma!
 
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Major1

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Actually, @jamesbond007 is 100% correct.

Maybe we should all stop checking out the net and go to a good church -- that would be the place to get some "good, biblical teaching"...in your very own words.

Or, even properly reading the bible would be of some help...
Jesus will be judging us by our good works.
John 5:28-29

Sister. Mr Bond said the following...……………

jamesbond007 said:
"To me repenting isn't just saying I'm sorry or Father forgive me for my sins. It means that we have to change our ways and this means taking action, i.e. doing works. Let's say I have a quick temper and it has gotten me in trouble with my loved ones. I have to vow and work to change losing my temper. It may be catching oneself and counting to ten or saying three Our Fathers before speaking or it may involve going to see a psychiatrist or other professional counselor. All of this involves works and trying to redeem our sins. Just believing in Jesus does not redeem our sins, but it helps to change our evil ways. Prayer helps to change our ways. The Holy Spirit helps to change our ways. This is what Jesus taught me."

He just said as I posted for you that "We must redeem our sins".
He just said as I posted for you that "Just believing in Jesus DOES NOT REDEEM OUR SINS".

Are you real sure that you want to say he is 100% correct and agree with his comments???????
 
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Major1

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To me repenting isn't just saying I'm sorry or Father forgive me for my sins. It means that we have to change our ways and this means taking action, i.e. doing works. Let's say I have a quick temper and it has gotten me in trouble with my loved ones. I have to vow and work to change losing my temper. It may be catching oneself and counting to ten or saying three Our Fathers before speaking or it may involve going to see a psychiatrist or other professional counselor. All of this involves works and trying to redeem our sins. Just believing in Jesus does not redeem our sins, but it helps to change our evil ways. Prayer helps to change our ways. The Holy Spirit helps to change our ways. This is what Jesus taught me.

You said...…………..
"All of this involves works and trying to redeem our sins."

You said...………….
"Just believing in Jesus does not redeem our sins, but it helps to change our evil ways. "

Completely and utterly incorrect!!!!!!!!!
Completely FALSE Christian theology.!!!!!!!!
 
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amariselle

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You said...…………..
"All of this involves works and trying to redeem our sins."

You said...………….
"Just believing in Jesus does not redeem our sins, but it helps to change our evil ways. "

Completely and utterly incorrect!!!!!!!!!
Completely FALSE Christian theology.!!!!!!!!

I agree Major,

Too many people believe Jesus did not do enough to save them. It is truly heartbreaking.
 
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amariselle

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Hebrews 10:
1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

21 And having an high priest over the house of God;

22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised)

24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

32 But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;

33 Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used.

34 For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.

35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.

36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.

38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
 
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justbyfaith

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But on the other hand, wasn't he his fathers son when he was in the pig pen.

He was his father's son when he was at home. He was his fathers son when he came home. When do you think that he stopped being his fathers son?
I didn't say he was no longer his father's son (as a matter of fact he never could cease to be that); I said that if he had died in the pigpen, his fate would have been to have been estranged from his father for all of eternity.
 
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justbyfaith

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And in my own thinking, on the other side might come the argument, Will the Almighty, Omnipotent God allow someone who is truly His child to be estranged from Him for all of eternity?

First of all, in the parable the son is estranged from his father period. Will the Almighty Omnipotent God allow someone who is truly His child to be estranged from Him for any period of time? yes, is the answer to the question. And in the context of the parable, if the son never returns home, he will never be reconciled to his father. And I most certainly believe that our opportunity to be reconciled is only in this life according to the Bible. Once you go on to the next, it is then too late to do anything about salvation (Hebrews 9:27).

Now if someone dies and goes on into the next life, and is still a child of God, there is a distinct probability that they will be welcomed into the arms of the Father according to a departure from the parable (as it has been said that no analogy is absolutely perfect).

However, I write what I write because we really don't know; and it is better not to take any chances on eternity by thinking that you can be living in the filth of the pigpen (a sinful lifestyle) and then, if you never return to the father, suddenly be in the arms of the Father the moment you die. It is better not to gamble on this, where you spend eternity is too important.

So the exhortation is, if you find yourself a prodigal out in the world, don't delay to return to the Father. You don't know what a day may bring forth; and there is really no guarantee that you will go to heaven if you are living sinfully in the present moment and then die in your sins. In fact, I think that the Bible teaches that if this be the case, you will not go to heaven if you die without repentance (Matthew 13:31-42, Matthew 7:23).
 
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justbyfaith

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If you know that you are a child of God and are not estranged from the Father and are living at home (according to the parable) and are not gone away from home, then of course we ought not to throw away our confidence for anything. We know that we have eternal life because we love the brethren (1 John 3:14).
 
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justbyfaith

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You said...…………..
"All of this involves works and trying to redeem our sins."

You said...………….
"Just believing in Jesus does not redeem our sins, but it helps to change our evil ways. "

Completely and utterly incorrect!!!!!!!!!
Completely FALSE Christian theology.!!!!!!!!
We cannot change our evil ways apart from faith in Christ. In fact we cannot change our evil ways at all; but we must change our minds about sin by turning from it (repent), and then Christ will be the one to sanctify us.

However we are sanctified by faith in Christ (Ephesians 2:8-9).

As salvation is past in justification,

present in SANCTIFICATION,

and future in glorification.

Therefore to be sanctified is to be saved in the present tense, and Ephesians 2:8-9 would tell us that this is by faith in Jesus and not by anything we might do as a work (apart from faith itself--John 6:28-29)
 
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EmSw

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I beg to differ. Jesus did die in our place; and that is the gospel of Jesus Christ. And also what the word propitiation means (Romans 3:25, 1 John 2:2, 1 John 4:10).

I said Jesus did not take our judgment. It's not for you to beg to differ. It's for you and I to believe what God says. Get to know what 'every man' means. No one is exempt from being judged according to his works and ways...NO ONE!

2 Chronicles 6:30
Then hear thou from heaven thy dwelling place, and forgive, and render unto every man according unto all his ways, whose heart thou knowest; (for thou only knowest the hearts of the children of men:)

Job 34:11
For the work of a man shall he render unto him, and cause every man to find according to his ways.

Psalm 62:12
Also unto thee, O Lord, belongeth mercy: for thou renderest to every man according to his work.

Proverbs 24:12
If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man according to his works?

Matthew 16:27
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Romans 2:6
Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

Revelation 20:13
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

It matters not if someone doesn't believe what is said above. Everyone will be judged according to his works.
 
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EmSw

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Genesis 15. The Gospel was given to Abraham 430 years before the Law was given to Moses.

The Gospel has always been the only hope of salvation in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour.

Show us the message of the Gospel which was preached to Abraham. Show us the death, burial, and resurrection which Abraham received. You won't find it my friend in the OT.

Galatians 3:8
And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Notice the Gospel preached to Abraham was, 'in thee shall all nations be blessed'. Yes, it was good news, but not the good news Jesus preached. Jesus preached the Gospel of the kingdom; this is not the Gospel Abraham was given.
 
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EmSw

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Indeed, there is nothing wrong with the Law, the problem is with us.

Romans 7:
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Then why not change your mind, turn away from your sin, turn to God, and obey His truth? It's a problem you can fix if that is your desire. He will help you in your heart's desire to live right. You have no excuse.
 
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EmSw

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I specifically shared from Genesis. Is Genesis not in the OT?

Is Genesis the only book you believe in the OT? What about the whole book of Ezekiel?

I don’t, actually. Thanks for your concern though.

Then you will tell us all you believe this truth of Jesus and you live by it.

Matthew 19:17
...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Go ahead, make your profession you believe this truth of the Savior and live by it.
 
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amariselle

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Show us the message of the Gospel which was preached to Abraham. Show us the death, burial, and resurrection which Abraham received. You won't find it my friend in the OT.

Galatians 3:8
And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Notice the Gospel preached to Abraham was, 'in thee shall all nations be blessed'. Yes, it was good news, but not the good news Jesus preached. Jesus preached the Gospel of the kingdom; this is not the Gospel Abraham was given.

In fact it is, as when God said “thy seed”, He was referring to Jesus Christ.
 
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EmSw

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Go right ahead; God is not going to answer a prayer that is not according to His will. And we don't reject the words of Jesus, we see them in their proper light, based on the epistles. Because scripture interprets scripture (1 Corinthians 2:13-14)

And we also see the Old Testament in its proper light, according to what the New Testament says about it; specifically in 2 Corinthians 3:13-14 and Hebrews 8:13.

Since you don't reject Jesus' words, then tell us all you believe these words and live by them.

Matthew 19:17
...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Also, Jesus said this -

Matthew 28
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


Are you teaching ALL nations 'to observe ALL THINGS whatsoever I have commanded you'. Are you? Are you teaching everyone to observe His command to keep His commandments?
 
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